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This file contains archive blocks 1-10; Messages 1-1000.

Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block # 1. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 1. Last Message Number: 100
First Message Date: April 21, 1998. Last Message Date: June 30, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000001-000100.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



BEGIN ARCHIVE BLOCK #1.

stargate : Message: [stargate]
Testing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/1)
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This list is an updates notification/discussion list for users of the Star Gate Declassified Documents Website at http://www.acornusers.org/stargate/. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Testing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/2) 21:03:46
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Hi All, This is just a quick e-mail to (a) test the software is working properly and (b) to let everyone know the list is here. I'm sorry there has been no activity on this list so far, but it is because I am waiting for more members to subscribe before I make any announcements, or allowing/making discussion take place. (There's no point making statements to a few people, and have to repeat it a week or so later when everyone else who is going to join, joins :) I will publically announce this new mailing list this Saturday (on my website), by which time we should have enough subscribers to "do something" with this list Again, this mailing list is only supposed to be a news/updates list, so you should not expect more than a few messages per week. However, chat about FOIA/RV docs is welcome, so feel free to post or say hi! Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Upcoming New FOIA Request
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/3) 21:04:05
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NEW FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST PLANNED 25th April, 1998: Star Gate Declassified Records Archive Dear List: I will soon be sending yet another FOIA request to the CIA. I will be enquiring on various tidbits, mostly questions that have arisen as the result of previous requests. Among these, I will be addressing the controversial summary of the "American Institute for Research" report on remote viewing, which will as you remember, concluded that "continued use of remote-viewing in intelligence gathering operations is not warranted" (*) Naturally, this report has generated a great deal of criticism and skepticism from the remote viewing community. It has it's doubters as well as defenders, as is the case in virtually any subject. The Star Gate Declassified Documents Website makes no effort to interpret these documents, and this is intentional. We advise the reader to exercise caution when reading or studying any subject, and to exercise all due care before forming any conclusions. This is just common sense. But other than that, we leave it up to the reader to draw any conclusions from the material up on our website. We would encourage you to seek a wide variety of views before making up your mind. We will not force our own opinion upon you. Our job here is to act in the public's interest, and to obtain documents of interest to remote-viewing researchers (and the public at large.) As a result, we'd welcome any comments or recommendations you may have for our next Freedom of Information Request. If, for example, you have a question you would like posed to the CIA's Freedom of Information staff, please feel free to e-mail me at steve@..., or post it publically by simply replying to this message. All (non-provocative) questions received will be catalogued, and it is very possible I will attach all of these questions on a separate piece of A4, and ask the CIA for a reply to these questions. Whether you trust the CIA or not is up to you, but it cannot hurt to hear what they have to say, and it can only contribute to our knowledgebase to have them reply. Comments or questions are welcome. Feedback is encouraged. Feel free to reply to this message on this list, or send a private mail. I will keep everyone on this list informed of any progress. Best wishes to you all! Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
New FOIA Request / UFO Documents Effort
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/4) 21:04:25
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Hello all, The Star Gate Declassified Docs website will not be receiving as much attention as usual for the coming weeks. There is are two main reasons for this: - I am focusing on the preparation of a new FOIA request to the CIA for additional RV material (comments/suggestions/feedback is encouraged!) - I am focusing on a UFO documents effort to obtain/release many new UFO documents - much of which has NEVER BEFORE BEEN SEEN by the general public. The second item is what will be taking most of my time, but the first is taking the rest (and is what I am working on ATM). Once the request is written/sent, and the new UFO documents available, I will go into more detail. In the meantime, I am having to be deliberate vague. Sorry! All questions sent re: the CIA FOIA request, I intend to INCLUDE as part of the FOIA request on a separate piece of A4. So, if you'd like to pitch a question to the CIA (remember: make it a request for information, such as an answer to a specific question), then post the question here (post/send e-mail to stargate@...!), or e-mail me privately at steve@.... It's free, and there's no need for you to worry about sending your own FOIA request to get the answer - I'll do all the work necessary! I will post here once the request has been written or the new UFO documents are available. Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
LAST CHANCE to field the CIA a question of your own!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/5) 21:04:42
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Hi All, In 3-4 days time, I will be posting a brand new FOIA request to the CIA. Already in the letter: - A request for very specific information on "Project Phoenix" and "Stunt Pilot" - A request to declassify the "CRV Training Manual". (Archivist's note: this was posted on July 4, 1998 by me at firedocs.com. It was never classified. - PJ Gaenir 6/2006) - A request to declassify the full "AIR Report" (only the 6-page "summary and conclusions" appears to be circulating) (Archivist's note: This was html'd by me in 1998 and posted on Dr. Jessica Utts's website. It was never classified. - PJ Gaenir 6/2006) Any questions you'd like to ask? Be SPECIFIC .. if possible, name a document, or some specific event you'd like more information on. I will keep a catalogue of any questions asked, and will either include them in my current request, or future ones. But hurry! I am sending this request off in 3-4 days.. I don't like to hang around.. If you'd like to be informed of any FOIA progress, visit the Star Gate Declassified Docs Website (at http://www.acornusers.org/stargate/) or send a blank e-mail (no subject or message necessary) to stargate-subscribe@.... Thanks! Regards, Steve. P.S. Yes, I *will* pay any costs that come of this.. and you don't need to write a letter of your own.. I will happily do all the work necessary.. stargate : Message: [stargate]
New FOIA Request Filed
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/6) 21:04:53
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Dear All, A new Freedom of Information Request has been filed with the CIA. I took a last-minute decision to remove the request for the "AIR Report", so that focus will be put more on the search for the CRV Training Manual and for some kind of description of Phoenix and Stunt Pilot's purposes. I will file a request for the AIR Report perhaps at a later date, depending on the CIA's response to this request. I intend to file an appeal with the CIA should this current request be rejected in any way. After receiving the information I've requested, I may ask for the AIR Report. However, I think I'll have my hands full with the CRV Manual if the request is successful, anyway :) Suggestions for future FOIA requests are still welcome, so please e-mail this list at stargate@... or me personally at steve@... if you have any ideas! The text of my latest FOIA request can be browsed by visiting the Star Gate Declassified Documents Website at the following URL: http://www.acornusers.org/stargate/ Enjoy! Regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Minor updates
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/7) 21:05:06
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There have also been some minor updates to the website. The most notable of these is the addition of FOIA Request #2, which was missing up until now. I found the original Word file and re-printed/re-scanned it. The CIA's refusal to send information on Phoenix and Stunt Pilot originally may have to do with the fact I requested "any and all" documents relating to these projects in my second request. I have narrowed my search criteria this time to "the first document of Phoenix and Stunt Pilot". This document should contain all we need, should the CIA decide to declassify/send it. The text of FOIA requests #2 and #4 are now available at the Star Gate Declassified Documents Website at http://www.acornusers.org/stargate/. Your comments, as always, are welcome and appreciated. Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Agency FOIA Addresses Needed
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/8) 21:05:41
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Dear List: A few people have written to me recently, mostly about the plans to release the CRV Training Manual in the near future. Others have written with suggestions for future FOIA requests. However, mostly it has been from people who aren't so much interested in specific information from the CIA (as my original request for new questions was about), but rather to point me in the direction of other agencies which they believe contain remote-viewing material. I need the addresses for the agencies below. If anyone has the address of the Freedom of Information Office for the agencies listed, please e-mail me with the details at steve@.... Thank you! Agency FOIA Addresses Needed for: * Defense Intelligence Agency (*I have now found this address*) * US Army / US Army INSCOM * US Navy * US Air Force Any other FOIA addresses, while not needed, would be greatfully welcomed and appreciated. Multi-agency FOIA requests may be made in the future, and every agency address we receive helps us in those efforts. Thanks again! Big thanks must go to all those who have written me with suggestions and comments for future FOIA requests. Rest assured, all your comments are listened to and I will be sure to bear them in mind in future FOIA work. Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Declaration of Independence
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/9) 21:06:05
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Dear List: In an attempt to distance the Star Gate Documents website from the ongoing political mayhem that exists within the remote-viewing community, the Star Gate Declassified Docs Website has published a "Declaration of Independence." Our Declaration of Independence expresses our dismay at the political nature of remote-viewing discussions and debates, and attempts to separate us completely from this process, by focusing us solely on requesting, obtaining and publishing remote-viewing documents. No amount of political pressure from any remote-viewing group or faction will be able to influence the direction of the Star Gate Documents website, and any implied threats or "statements of dissatisfaction" made by any of these groups will not deter us in any way, shape or form from our efforts. However, we will work with anyone who wishes to co-operate with us in a productive way, to obtain new documents. Requests of all kinds from all members of the public for new information are welcome. Below is our formal Declaration of Independence for the Star Gate Declassified Documents Website. STAR GATE DOCUMENTS WEBSITE: DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE The Star Gate Declassified Documents Website is an independent, not-for-profit website created by Steve Crietzman. Unlike many other sites on the Internet, we do not "take sides" in any of the political debates that have sprung up around this subject. We do not try to dictate what uses people put remote-viewing to, what they choose to believe about the subject, what they do with it, who learns it, or why. And we do not side with, or against, any group or individual whose name is well-known within the RV community. This site sides with the Freedom of Information Act - only. We file Freedom of Information requests to various agencies and we place the results of those requests online. What you see online are public documents that you have a legal and constitutional *right to see*. You may download them, copy them, do as you wish with them. No one owns the copyright to them - they are public documents. Whatever you decide to read into these documents is up to you. I may occassionally (rarely) make commentaries on these documents, if I feel there is a need for me to comment on them, but for the most part, I leave it up to each individual to choose for themselves; to choose what they read, how they read, what they read into it, and what they do with it after they read it. I see my role as a liaison between the CIA's Freedom of Information Staff, and the public. I will make requests depending on what I feel the public are interested in knowing. I will occassionally write requests on behalf of people who e-mail me and wish to remain anonymous and/or not file it themselves. In short, I am here to make the Freedom of Information Act just a little bit more accessible to people on the web. And I feel the best way I can remain neutral and objective, is if I stay out of the making of any analysis, and not pay any attention to political backlash that may result from my work. All I'm doing is publishing public documents, and if anyone has a problem with that, you should ask them what is wrong in publishing uncopyrighted, unclassified public documents. I welcome feedback from anyone and everyone, and hope that everyone finds some use for this website, whatever their political affiliation or personal beliefs. We will work with anyone who wishes to work productively with us, to obtain new documents and further the knowledge and understanding of the science of remote-viewing. However, we will not be influenced by those who wish to restrict, hinder, or defame our website in any way. The Star Gate Declassified Documents Website is an independent, not-for-profit, non-partisan website dedicated to furthering the knowledge and understanding of remote-viewing and the US government's involvement in the same. ends. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
List Archive Now Public
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/10) 21:06:22
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Dear List: The Star Gate List archive can now be viewed by going to the following Web URL: http://www.findmail.com/listsaver/stargate/ Before today, you would need to enter your e-mail address and be required to sign up as a member of this website (nothing to do with me BTW), and then it would check if you were subscribed to this list before it would let you access it. I've now made the archive public, so you can flow on in, and browse through past posts. If you've not already done so, I'd check out the Star Gate website today - there have been several changes lately. The URL again is: http://www.acornusers.org/stargate/. Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Notice for our UK Subscribers!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/11) 21:06:32
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Dear UK Subscribers, If you have not yet seen "The Real X-Files: Remote Viewers", you have an opportunity tonight! The time and place: Saturday 30th May, Channel 4, 9pm. It's a one-hour documentary reportedly by Jim Schnabel that discusses the US intelligence community's recruitment and training of remote-viewers, and you'll have the chance to see the faces behind those names you've probably heard referred to in the newsgroups, BBSs and discussion lists! WEBSITE NEWS: No, I've not forgotten the website. A radical redesign has been made of the website, and these changes will be uploaded either today or sometime later this week, along with a move to a completely new address (don't worry, the old address will continue to function properly!) UK SCENE NEWS: It looks like the remote-viewers are finally looking to Britain! Joe McMoneagle will be introducing and describing (but not training, it should be noted) remote-viewing to a UK audience this November, 1997 in a venue with Paul McKenna and Michael Breen. More information will be added to the website about this soon. The event is expected to cost a little over ?1,000, but I should stress that Joe McMoneagle will be there in the capacity of explaining, perhaps demonstrating (unconfirmed) remote-viewing, but certainly training does not appear to be on the agenda. He will be sharing the stage with Michael Breen and Seka Nikolic, who is described as being a bio-energy healer. There is also rumour of training in the UK, but since there has not yet been an official confirmation or guarentee (the event is still in the planning stages), I would rather not give names. But it certainly seems like the UK might be getting some professional remote-viewers' attention this year! Best Regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Notice for our UK Subscribers!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/12) 21:06:47
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Re: [stargate] Notice for our UK Subscribers! Hi All, Just a few corrections to the last post - >UK SCENE NEWS: >It looks like the remote-viewers are finally looking to Britain! Joe >McMoneagle will be introducing and describing (but not training, it should >be noted) remote-viewing to a UK audience this November, 1997 in a venue This of course should read "November, 1998". Although I guess those versed in remote-viewing could have visited the event even if it was last year ;-) >website about this soon. The event is expected to cost a little over >?1,000, This should have read "a little over 1,000 UK pounds." Best regards, Steve. P.S. I will be announcing the new address of the Star Gate Website on this list (as well as on the old address).. both addresses will continue to function (the old one won't be "closed" as both will point to the same site.) Also, I'll have probably a few surprises for folks this coming Saturday.. until then, you'll just have to wait :) stargate : Message: [stargate]
Website Updated
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/13) 21:06:57
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Hi All, The topic line pretty much says it all, doesn't it? :) The address to the new website is: http://www.liberalism.org/stargate/. Please bookmark this new URL and be sure to check back often! What's new: * Complete new look (redesigned from the roots.) * New 'Policy' section (to be uploaded soon.) * Text versions of all documents to be uploaded soon (Progress Report No. 3 already available this way.) * Discussion BBS is back again! * More to come.. Your comments, criticisms etc. are welcome on the new BBS, too! Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
No Data Error
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/14) 21:07:07
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Dear All: You might have got a "No Data Error" when trying to access the new new-look Star Gate website. I've had this error, and have heard from another that she'd also got this error when attempting to access the site. This is not a problem that can be fixed easily on the server end, but from your end it is simple. Just click "Reload". Quite why it will send you nothing the first time you try, and send you the page the second time, is a bit of a mystery, but I believe the server is stopping half-way from sending you the page. We should have this problem fixed soon. In the meantime, be "Reload" trigger-happy :) I hope this problem hasn't caused too much trouble for you all. Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
CIA Ask $450 to Perform Star Gate FOIA Search
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/15) 21:07:25
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Dear All: This is outrageous. The CIA want $450 to be able to perform a search for the documents I asked for, but say it is better to wait because it might soon be available anyway. Here is their reply. 09 JUN 1998 Mr. Steve Crietzman 49 St. Gilberts Road Bourne Lincolnshire PE10 9XD UNITED KINGDOM Reference: (deleted) Dear Mr. Crietzman: This is in my response to your 11 May 1998 Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for records related to remote viewing, as follows: 1. "The document which officially established 'Project Phoenix.'" 2. "The document which officially established 'Project Stunt Pilot.'" 3. The entire 'CRV Training Manual'..." [4. [Other documents as described in your letter relating to Phoenix and Stunt Pilot.] This request has been assigned the reference number above for identification purposes. ... In accordance with Section (a) of the schedule, search fees are accessable even if no records are found or, if found, we determine that they are not releasable. This means you will be charged even if our search results are negative or if it is determiend that no information is releasable under the FOIA. The search fees for a requester in the "all other" fee category for each item in a request are usually about $150. Your three-item request could cost about US$450. ... Pursuant to 32 CFR $1900.13(f), we must request your good-faith deposit in the amount of $200. One reason we are requesting this deposit in this particular instance is because we believe it highly likely that, if we have copies of the documents you have requested, they will be released as part of the Star Gate Collection sooner than we could locate, review and or coordinate them under the FOIA. ... We will hold your request in abeyance for 45 days until we receive your commitment to pay all fees incurred and under the conditions above along with your good-faith deposit of $200. Yours sincerely, [signed] Lee S. Strickland Information and Privacy Coordinator Enclosure ... The full letter, plus the fees list, will be added online within a few days. The URL, again, is http://www.liberalism.org/stargate/. Please read the last mail to the list about the No Data Error if you have problems connecting. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
The CIA's FOIA Response
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/16) 21:07:43
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Dear All: Below is the CIA's reply to my latest FOIA request. As noted in this letter, I urged the CIA, in writing and on the telephone, to break with their standard "we're reviewing them now, please wait" policy, and to perform a search under the FOIA as laid down and required by law, for the unclassified CRV Training Manual, and for the documents which establish Projects Phoenix and Stunt Pilot. This is their response. They want me to pay $450 to cover various costs. Needless to say, I still have a few legal tricks up my sleeve, and might be able to circumvent this rather hefty charge, by appealing for a fee waiver, citing public interest and my intention to distribute and publish the results, and also by quoting a few FOIA regulations. I can play at the regulations game too, CIA. However, in light of the fact that PJ Gaenir is already busily processing the CRV Manual, and that the additional time spent on the CRV Manual might slow my own efforts in other areas, I am hereby dropping the request to the CIA for the CRV Manual, to focus on the Phoenix and Stunt Pilot materials, among some other things which I am reluctant to discuss at present. There is no point in my attempting to obtain the CRV Manual, since by the time I get anywhere with the manual, PJ will probably have her version online. I want to reiterate that when I filed the original request for the CRV Training Manual (something I had been considering for about six months on-and-off), I was not aware that PJ Gaenir was intending to put this document online, available for all. Around the same time I posted my own intentions to obtain and publish this manual, PJ Gaenir announced to her list that the CRV manual would be available online in about two months (paraphrased.) I was not sure at the time if this was in reference to my own efforts (since the CIA's replies can take six weeks, and it would take a week or two to scan the pages in), or something I did not know about, but by then I had already made preparations for a FOIA request for the CRV Manual, and I'd sent it on it's way. What mattered to me, is that this manual was available online, so that the science of remote-viewing could be better understood, and the technology put in a position where it can more easily be held to scientific scrutiny. Scientific data means nothing if it cannot be questioned, scrutinised and the experiments repeated by others. At this present time, there is insufficient information in the public domain to allow the claimed SRI results to be duplicated in a public environment. I am deeply grateful for PJ's pledge to publish the manual, as not only would this be a tremendous service to the remote-viewing research community, it also frees me to focus on other documents in the CIA's possession, and opens up the possibility of moving on with some other planned FOIA requests. I will, of course, continue my FOIA efforts. When one line of investigation has dried up, I will go down another. My intention is to collect and publish as much information as is possible. The FOIA does work - just not, perhaps, as well as we'd like it to. Careful wording, and a good understanding of FOIA law, are helpful bonuses however, as has been demonstrated by the CIA budging from it's no-reply policy, which I pointed out was flatly illegal, to a "we'll do it if you pay" policy, which isn't much better from a practical point of view, but at least it's a more liberal response. Hopefully, this can be budged further, onto a "we'll do it for free" policy, by pointing out a few more legal regulations, and using "fee waivers" and the FOIA Appeals procedure. Best regards, Steve. ========== 09 JUN 1998 Mr. Steve Crietzman 49 St. Gilberts Road Bourne Lincolnshire PE10 9XD UNITED KINGDOM Reference: (deleted) Dear Mr. Crietzman: This is in response to your 11 May 1998 Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for records related to remote viewing, as follows: 1. "The document which officially established 'Project Phoenix.' 2. The document which officially established 'Project Stunt Pilot.' 3. The entire 'CRV Training Manual'..." [4. [Other documents as described in your letter relating to Phoenix and Stunt Pilot.] This request has been assigned the reference number above for identification purposes. As you know from the various communications between you and this agency, we have considered all remote viewing docuiments in our possession as inaccessible until the Star Gate Collection release. During your two recent phone calls to this office you urged our staff to break with our recent precedent of not searching against the collected Star Gate records during its declassification process. As we have explained to you, the Star Gate records declassification project that is being conducted at CIA was undertaken as the result of a special Congressional mandate. This effort is dramatically different from the processing of FOIA requests. One principal difference is that CIA has been given permission to release other agencies' records; another is that CIA is using more liberal guidelines that may result in more releasable documents that may be less heavily redacted than they would have been under FOIA guidelines. What this means to you in this particular instance is that if we were to conduct a FOIA search against the Star Gate Collection and if the documents you want were located as the result of this FOIA search, we would have to review them pursuant to normal FOIA procedures. This means that our reviewing officers would make any necessary deletions on the basis of standard FOIA exemptions. After our review, we would then have to send the documents to their originating agency for its formal FOIA review. The originating agency would make the decision as to whether it is able to release the documents. The CIA is not allowed to release another agency's documents under the FOIA. As you know, the FOIA authorizes federal agencies to collect fees for records services. You will note on the enclosed fee schedule that we charge search fees, including computer time where indices are computerized, and copying costs for releasable documents. In accordance with Section (a) of the schedule, search fees are assessable even if no records are found or, if found, we determine that they are not releasable. This means you will be charged even if our search results are negative or if it is determined that no information is releasable under the FOIA. The search fees for a requester in the "all other" fee category for each item in a request are usually about $150. Your three-item request could cost about US$450. Pursuant to 32 CFR ?1900.13(f), we must request your good-faith deposit in the amount of US$200. One reason we are requesting this deposit in this particular instance is because we believe it highly likely that, if we have copies of the documents you have requested, they will be released as part of the Star Gate Collection sooner than we could locate, review, and refer and or coordinate them under the FOIA. In conclusion, we have determined that we can search for the records you requested - specifically, for (1) the CRV Training Manual, (2) records relating to Project Phoenix, and (3) records relating to Project Stunt Pilot. Such a search would be conducted specifically under FOIA ground rules, some of which have been highlighted in the paragraphs above. We will hold your request in abeyance for 45 days until we receive your commitment to pay all fees incurred and under the conditions stated above along with your good-faith deposit of $200. Sincerely, [signed] for Lee S. Strickland Information and Privacy Coordinator Enclosure stargate : Message: [stargate]
Documents Added to Website
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/17) 21:07:54
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Dear List: I have just made some major updates to the website. I now have available the CIA's official reply to my latest FOIA request, plus the CIA FOIA fees and regulations list which came enclosed with their letter. But probably the most significant change is the addition of the American Institute for Research's controversial report on remote-viewing. I now have online a copy of the 183-page version of this report, as well as the 6-page summary that was included in response to my first FOIA request of last year. My thanks must go to Paul Smith, who made me aware of the existence of the full AIR report as a PDF file, which I have now added to the Star Gate Documents Website. The URL to the website, as always, is: http://www.liberalism.org/stargate/. The old address of http://www.acornusers.org/stargate/ is also still working; you can choose which address you prefer :) If/when I decide to appeal against the CIA's decision, or to file a fee waiver, I'll announce it here to this list, and add the letter to my website. Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
The Closure of the Viewer List
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/18) 21:08:24
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Hello All, PJ Gaenir will soon be leaving the remote-viewing community, and her 250-strong Viewer List will be closing for good. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that we wish her well for the future. However, this does mean that the Star Gate List is in no longer in danger of "duplicating" the Viewer List (since it will not be around much longer), and so I'm lifting the rules a little on this list. (The rules designed to protect Star Gate List from becoming like the Viewer List no longer seem necessary.) Starting today, posts from anyone will be automatically accepted onto this list, and discussion can be about anything, so long as it relates in some way to what the Star Gate Website is about - remote-viewing and science (and the science of remote-viewing.) I am putting my trust in those who are subscribed to be reasonably sensible about how they use this list (if they decide to!) I won't place any ground rules down now, I'll just open the ground to almost anything (friendly, non-RV chatter included for now!), and see how things go. I'll only introduce rules if I feel they're necessary. For now, "be good to each other" is the only common-sense rule that's being laid down. This BBS encourages critical thinking, and those who have difficult questions to ask about RV are encouraged to speak their mind. My intention is that these people can raise their questions without feeling uncomfortable or guilty about their views (there is nothing wrong in asking difficult questions!) But views of all types are welcome here. If anything is banned or unappropriate on other mailing lists or BBSs, you should consider the Star Gate List a safe place to discuss those topics. I would like this list to be a list "for the other people." Anyway, I declare this BBS open to the public! Anyone want to start off..? Anything goes!! :) Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
The Closure of the Viewer List
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/19) 21:08:42
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Re: [stargate] The Closure of the Viewer List Steve: FAIR ENOUGH!!!! ...but get that CGI thingamajig fixed :-). electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
The Closure of the Viewer List
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/20) 21:08:58
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Re: [stargate] The Closure of the Viewer List Hiya, >Steve: > >FAIR ENOUGH!!!! > >...but get that CGI thingamajig fixed :-). Okay, I get the message.. ;-) If anyone reading hasn't seen the Star Gate BBS, goto: http://www.progressiveweb.net/local-cgi-bin/config.pl Oh, and the Star Gate website is now also at http://www.progressiveweb.net/stargate/ but the two older addresses still work too ;-) (I promote this will be the *last* change in the address :) Say Electrix, want to post your essay to the list? Might get some chatter going.. Best, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Posts welcome!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/21) 21:09:09
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Hello everyone, This is just to remind you that this mailing list is OPEN FOR CHAT now.. There's only 17 people here.. but if just half of you made the effort to make a few posts, we could have an active mailing list in no time! This is a request for people to consider making one or two posts each, and to try to make an effort to reply to any posts that are made to the list. I'm interested to see where we can take this list f we all try! Any takers..? Come on, just make a reply to this message! At the moment, let's just see who's here, we'll worry about the topic later! Let's just all say "hi" for now.. I realise I could just post a list of names of everyone who's here, and some of you probably would like me to do that but I can't. Subscriptions are private - you name will only become public if you decide to post.. So please, consider making a post! (YES, YOU! :) Cheers, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Posts welcome!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/22) 21:09:20
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Re: [stargate] Posts welcome! Hi Steve... I just read for the first time some of the material sent to you from the CIA, dated 1972. I was so interested to read this stuff! Can't thank you enough for guiding me to this site... truly so wonderful. You have done an outstanding job getting all of this information released... knowing all the steps to take, etc. I'm very impressed. It seems to me that remove viewing is just what I thought it was all along... those who are proficient in ESP are the best viewers. That's not to say we can't all learn to use it to a certain extent... but there will always be those who are just plain better at it. IMO Love, Paula stargate : Message: [stargate]
dream
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/23) 21:09:29
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Hi everybody! I have very active dreams, lucid dreams, and pretty good dream recall. I consider it a blessing. Anyway, something unusual occured the other day and I would appreciate feedback. My friend Terri and I were discussing our nightly dreams. I told her that I dreamed of round headed whales (beluah?) or dolphins, 4 or 5 together in line, swimming up to the shore. The water was dark, it was at night. She told me that the night before she had dreamed the exact same thing! Very unusual stuff. Did anyone else have a similiar dream? Is this a thought dimension out there that we picked up on? And Steve, good idea to have a list. Good luck. Regards, Jane stargate : Message: [stargate]
Thoughts on RV
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/24) 21:09:43
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Hi Paula, First, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us on this list! I for one really appreciate it :) I have always had a problem with the idea that we can all be trained to become experts at remote-viewing, given enough time and practice. When we look at our other five known senses, it's worth remembering that with sight, for example - some people are born with excellent vision, others are short-sighted, others are long-sighted, and some - in the rare cases - are born blind. Some people are born deaf, others are born with bad hearing, most of us have good hearing - but some of us have better hearing than others. Some of us are colour-blind to certain colours and can "see" certain things better than others. Some of us are sensitive to certain frequencies of sounds that others of us aren't. Some of us cannot see *or* hear. Some of us might have bad sight and bad hearing, or bad hearing and good sight.. or any combination of the above.. So I think if we're going to call ESP a "sixth sense" and take that literally, I think it's fair that we'd have the "psychic duds" - who are psychically blind/deaf - those who are about average - and those with excellent, fine-tuned senses, so called "natural psychics" and "world-class remote-viewers" for example. I do not believe that training will allow us to continue to improve, any more than by doing "reading exercises" and reading books and watching TV day after day, will give us better eyesight. We may become more accustomed to them, but I don't think we'll get to improve our natural ability beyond it's natural levels. All this said, I'm not sure how I feel about remote-viewing anyway. As the kind of person who demands a high level of scientific evidence, I'm the type of person who wants to see everything the labs have. We've got very little to go on, really. But until we know more about ESP - and the sad truth is, I believe anyway - that we can't make any conclusions about remote-viewing at all - then we're not in a very good position to say much. We can speculate, based on our own experiences in life, and our own feelings based on what we know about remote-viewing and what others have said, but apart from that - we really do not know the *cause* of the higher-than-chance results, even if we off-the-bat say that there's more than just unknown mistakes in the experiments happening, and that "something" else is happening - something, forlack of a better word, "paranormal". Saying the cause is something paranormal still doesn't tell us the cause, and more than saying that hearing is a "physical sense." We know that ears receive the sound and our brains process that. Where is ESP signals (assuming they're there) being received, how are they being processed, and what could interfere between the source of the transmission (and - how is it transmitted BTW?), and the receiver. Until we find the cause, we don't know why we're getting higher-than-chance "scores". Once we do find the cause, and let's say it's paranormal for a moment (my 'gut feeling' is this is the answer), then we'll be able to find ways to "increase" the signal-to-noise ratio, improve the signal, and get much better results. (Perhaps the "sidereal time" is a step in that direction.) I don't think we have answers yet, but I hope - that the answers are just around the corner. Once we start to get those answers, we'll know a great deal more about what's causing these higher-than-chance scores, and we'll finally be able to say "mundane" (bad experiments, subliminal messages or whatever) or "paranormal" (ESP, remote-viewing, distant signals being sent to our mind, etc.) I guess in this sense, it's not "paranormal" at all.. only in that we don't have the answers now, and it can *seem* to be beyond our understanding of the world and universe. Anyway, that's my tuppence worth :) Thanks for contributing, Paula. I think I agree with you - if ESP is "real" (which I think it is), then there will be pros, those with "average" psi abilities, and a couple out there with no real ability, just their imaginations to work with (thus, bad results/chance results.) Studying 'psychic duds' might even tell us a little about what thoughts/impressions we should be ignoring, and help us detect what experts have that the duds don't.. (was a passing thought, was going to ignore this but figured I'd post it anyway to get some people thinking :) That's some of my thoughts on the subject, anyway. Paula, want to respond? Anyone else want to chip in..? Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/25) 21:09:57
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Hi Jane! Welcome to the list, and thanks for posting.. :-) I find dreams fascinating. Perhaps it has something to do with me being a "psychic dud" ;) I really don't think I've got any RV talent to use, but I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong. (And I'm not saying I don't think others have RV talent.. there's a good chance they do.. I'd just like to see a little more light shed on all this.. because I don't think there's quite enough info and evidence out there to prove it yet..) I have a lot of lucid dreams and vivid dreams, but none lately. In my life I have had only two dreams that *might* come under the "predictive" category.. both about the same person/people, separated by a couple of months. I never had any other dreams about these people (that I remember), and I've never had any other "predictive" dreams about anyone else. Two dreams aren't really enough for me to go on though.. so I hope more come along some time.. :) I noticed they seem to have certain "characteristics" that other dreams did not.. Anyway, I guess I'm straying here. I don't really have anything to say about your dreams - I'm not really that good at dream interpreting (except my own dreams :), and lucid dreams are about the only thing I am good at talking about. I thought I'd chip in these comments as I thought you might find them interesting, or others might.. If anyone can help Jane, *please* post a reply here! I'm not sure I can be of much help on this one.. Take care, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Answer To Steve's answer to Paula
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/26) 21:10:08
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These messages are going to get extremely long and cumbersome if we just keep hitting the Reply button, thus the above subject... Steve... IMO, ESP or psi cannot be tested in the laboratory... it is something that can never be harnessed and explained away in a scientific manner. Now, having made this statement, I can just hear the flames starting. But, and remember this is my opinion only, until we can prove that God exists in the laboratory, we cannot prove that extrasensory perception exists either... I don't care how many protocols, this thing just isn't going to behave the way scientists want it to. How can one prove something that belongs in another dimension??? And isn't that where psi comes from? Put this down to my naïveté... I am, after all, much older than the rest of you (probably) and just have that good old "gut" feeling about all this... ESP has to be experienced; psi has to be experienced... this is a subject one has got to "know", not "believe". And that comes from experiencing these things. Anybody have an opinion? Or am I all wet??? Love, Paula stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Posts welcome!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/27) 21:10:19
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Hello, We are a small group located in Orange city Florida.We have been working with RV for the last 6 or so months now and have had a few good hits but not as consistant (spelling)? as we would like it to be.We have no guide lines to follow by except what is posted on the web.If anyone feels like they have had possitive and concise hits from this ,please e-mail me and let me know how you have done it. thank you Paul Roggio E-mail me at Neshamah1@... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Posts welcome!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/28) 21:10:28
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Hello Paul! Are we neighbors? I live in Lakeland, Florida. Are you near Orlando? Anyway, I'd like to hear more about your experiments. How many viewers do you have? How are targets set up? Just general questions about how you are running your test. Good luck with the project! Regards, Jane stargate : Message: [stargate]
To Paula
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/29) 21:10:38
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Hi Paula! Yes, I agree with you that there is not sufficient technology to prove the existence of PSI. It just is. Like God just is. I believe that it is real and can be demonstrated, but not taken apart and disected. Warmly, Jane stargate : Message: [stargate]
dream
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/30) 21:10:47
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[stargate] dream Thanks Steve for your comments about dreams. I am particularly interested in hearing about your "predictive dream"! You wrote:I have a lot of lucid dreams and vivid dreams, but none lately. In my life I have had only two dreams that *might* come under the "predictive" category.. both about the same person/people, separated by a couple of months. I never had any other dreams about these people (that I remember), and I've never had any other "predictive" dreams about anyone else. Two dreams aren't really enough for me to go on though.. so I hope more come along some time.. :) I noticed they seem to have certain "characteristics" that other dreams did not.. Please share with us some of your predictive dreams or lucid dreams. I love dreamwork. Regards, Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
The Closure of the Viewer List
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/31) 21:10:57
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Re: [stargate] The Closure of the Viewer List I hope I am on the list. I am assuming I am since I am getting a list of people just raining into Hard Drive. Hi everyone... simply...I am electrix the shocking one... :-) About that Essay...I am not sure it is the appropriate place to put it, being so long and all...and I do believe there is already a chatter going.... Feel free to post it Steve. I will dropping notes interminently since I have to focus on other matters. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Posts welcome!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/32) 21:11:09
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Paula Hulslander wrote: > It seems to me that remove viewing is just what I thought it was all > along... those who are proficient in ESP are the best viewers. That's not > to say we can't all learn to use it to a certain extent... but there will > always be those who are just plain better at it. IMO There is a possibility that the above stated belief may hinder ones own ability to surpass those proficient in RV/ESP, no? Perhaps, Paula, what you may be good at (or undiscovered skills) they can't even fathom. No? electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Answer To Steve's answer to Paula
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/33) 21:11:20
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Re: [stargate] Answer To Steve's answer to Paula You are not alone on that thought Paula. I recently posted an Essay and a Rebuttal on the same idea of Proof. The use of Science to investigate the paranormal is lopsided. We can scientifically analyze its results, but sooner or later we are left to infer othe presence of the Paranormal which is a confounded and alternate reality. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Posts welcome!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/34) 21:11:31
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Glad to see that I wasnt't the only one that made an makeshift experiment before taking an RV workshop. My advice is that one of you take an RV workshop and share the info with the others if all of you can't afford it. The protocols are not written in all the books I have read on RV. It is something that must be pass to you by an instructor. The closest you are going to get to protocol is buying the Ed Dames video Tapes. Of course, absorb the information given with critical and open mind since the man IS part of Intel and who knows what's his agenda. IMO. Before my RV workshop, I tried out the experiments by gleaning information from several books and the Net and tried it on two people. The results were very interesting. The target "hit" were very close. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dream
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/35) 21:11:43
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Re: [stargate] dream What I am interesting in finding out is your opinion of what makes the mind "light up" these images in the head called dreams. What do you think dreams are? How can there be no light entering your eyes but yet you can visualize images in your mind. Doesn't it defy physics. For something to be visual light must be shed on it. Can someone (pun intended) enlighten me on this? electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Answer to Steve's answer to Paula
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/36) 21:11:53
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Hi All, I woke up this morning to a flood of messages and 3 new requests to join the list. Looks like things are really starting to pick up here.. :-) Thanks to everyone who's posted! Keep it up! :-) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Answer To Steve's answer to Paula
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/37) 21:12:02
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Re: [stargate] Answer To Steve's answer to Paula Electrix: I just finished reading your essay on the BBS and, needless to say, agree wholeheartedly with everything you contend there. Thank you for your thoughtful and quite brilliant insights, Electrix... have always enjoyed your posts on Farsight. Love, Paula stargate : Message: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/38) 21:12:14
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Electrix wrote: >You are not alone on that thought Paula. I recently posted an Essay and a >Rebuttal on the same idea of Proof. The use of Science to investigate the >paranormal is lopsided. We can scientifically analyze its results, but >sooner or later we are left to infer othe presence of the Paranormal which >is a confounded and alternate reality. Hi, Well, all opinions are welcome on this list, but I have to disagree with you here Electrix (life would be boring if we all agreed all the time, wouldn't it? ;) It may well be that we'll continued to be dumb-founded by remote-viewing, but science has provided us with so many answers to so many questions, it's methods could very well provide us with answers on psi. Maybe not now, maybe not in a few decades, maybe not in 100 years.. but someday. It might happen slowly, or quickly. We have no surefire way of predicting the future (let's leave RV out of this for the moment ;) so it's hard to say where science will or will not take our understanding of subjects like RV. Science is an objective system. It provides us with "hard evidence" and solid answers (as much as that is possible.) It deals with data, experiments, results, etc. Things that can be examined, tested, and measured. Anything else I put under the catagory of religion, belief or faith. It is hard for me as the scientific type to comment on faith and belief, because it is difficult to scientificly test a faith. Does God exist? Provide me with a scientific way to test for God, and we could perform a test. But we cannot perform a test because we don't know what to test for, or even if we can test for it. So there is no way to prove it a positive. This, unfortunately, means we cannot prove a faith. Does that make it wrong? How do I know? I can't measure it! I prefer to stick with things we can scientifically measure, and leave belief/faith to those who use/need it. I'm not a person who has much faith in anything but the objective/scientific. Some may call this a failing, others a blessing, others something inbetween. But it is the system I've chosen. We all choose our systems to rely on. That's the one I've chosen. I prefer to put my trust in things I can test, measure, examine. IF it can be tested, measured or examined.. it can be subjected to a scientific experiment, and it can be scientifically analysed. Otherwises, it is not of much scientific value. If something cannot be tested, cannot be measured, cannot be experienced or examined.. we can't be sure it exists objectively, ever. Which means it does not affect physical reality. Clearly, psi affects physical reality. So we can test that much of it. If it crosses over at some point into non-physical reality, perhaps then and there the scientific experiments will no longer be of use. But that still gives us a lot to examine. And it's still possible that RV is purely physical, with no paranormal explanation being necessary. (Note: That does not mean RV does "not exist"; it just means there may be a physical explanation rooted in our physical universe, for how we pick up these "signals".) That's my feeling. I respect your views Electrix and Paula, but I prefer not to comment on things beyond that which can be scientifically analysed. Psi CAN be scientifically analysed. How far and how much remains to be seen. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/39) 21:12:31
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> We have no surefire way of > predicting the future (let's leave RV out of this for the moment ;) so it's > hard to say where science will or will not take our understanding of subjects > like RV. Science has actually made considerable inroads into explaining RV. Unlike many public forums for RV focusing on Psi as if it was another weird superstition, the foundation research is in electromagnetic wave resonance. The protocols in Rv are designed to focus the viewers intent and attention, until they resonate with the targets electromagnetic signature, The degree to which you match this resonance will be demonstrated in the level of clarity in your view. RV is a communication skill, which takes allot of discipline to master. Many EEG and bio-feed back experiments have been conducted to measure the state achieved when good RV data is collected, the wild card is that each individual, even well trained professionals have good and bad days and to top this off availability of data, is often compromised by the individuals ability to retrieve it, or the viewers disciplined ability to refrain from interpretation or contamination of the data items collected. The difference in good and bad days can be justified by everything from, stress and distractions, to over confidence and sloppy protocols. The human factor is yet to be totally quantified, except that when certain brain wave states are achieved very accurate data can be retrieved. > Science is an objective system. It provides us with "hard evidence" and solid > answers (as much as that is possible.) It deals with data, experiments, results, > etc. Things that can be examined, tested, and measured. Absolutly, even though biological functions can be measured human free will and complexity can vary results in a heart beat by shifting the focus of their attention. > I prefer to put my trust in things I can test, measure, examine. IF it can be > tested, measured or examined.. it can be subjected to a scientific experiment, > and it can be scientifically analysed. Otherwises, it is not of much scientific > value. If something cannot be tested, cannot be measured, cannot be > experienced or examined.. we can't be sure it exists objectively, ever. Which > means it does not affect physical reality. One of the most humbeling experiences I know is to sit at a desk with only a pen, stack of fanfold paper, and randomly generated Target ID that has been cued to.......any of billions of possible targets. At the end of an hours work, you lay out your session along side the target photo and you get to see.... what is congruant target data, want is contaminated (data with simular gestault but turned into something else) and what is pure imagination. When you see the target you find out what all those puzzle pieces you saw but did not yet understand really meant. I have been traing to RV for just under a year. Data I collected, that was way beyond odds of guessing, a year ago is nolonger acceptable to me, as far as clarity or quality, the more you do, the more you know is possible, the more you push yourself to improve, until nothing less than full clarity and accuracy is acceptable. Not everyone thinks that this way of being is fun :) so not everyone puts in the work to get the results. > Clearly, psi affects physical reality. So we can test that much of it. If it crosses > over at some point into non-physical reality, perhaps then and there the scientific > experiments will no longer be of use. But that still gives us a lot to examine. > > And it's still possible that RV is purely physical, with no paranormal explanation > being necessary. (Note: That does not mean RV does "not exist"; it just means > there may be a physical explanation rooted in our physical universe, for how > we pick up these "signals" .) > The trick and discipline in RV is to keep the primary consciousness occupied and out of the way so that the subconscious can communicate clearly. The sub communicates in visuals, sounds, feelings and perceptions. Our Ego finds this furtile ground for showing how smart it is, and will usually contaminate the data, until it is trained and disciplined to its part in the process. This becomes a life changing experience because our egos are busy doing this every waking moment, not just in RV. Aloha Yaana Tue Jun 23, 1998 4:23 pm Hide Message Option View Source Use Fixed Width Font Unwrap Lines Yaana Allen yaana@... Send Email Send Email stargate : Message: [stargate]
Posts welcome!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/40) 21:12:39
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Dear Steve and List, Hope this makes it..my first attempt. I was wondering, perhaps for a start, if anyone here has worked with any Remote Viewing techniques in experiments..'blind', etc. I am completely untrained by any teacher but have enjoyed testing myself... with some moderate success..and some plain failures as well. I am hoping to practice more and learn. At any rate, this is my first hello to all, Best wishes, Laura stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/41) 21:12:48
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Aloha Miss Yaana, Your technical writting is very good. Great post. Aloha Glenn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/42) 21:13:00
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Re: [stargate] RV Science I wouldn't have it any other way Steve! My words are no written on concrete to be followed as Ten Commandments, although sometimes I write in such a manner :-) I welcome dissidence. It is a healthy to analyze and acknowledge different views. Insults, of course, are another matter. I don't engage in such. I am not offended by your response since I don't feel you are being disrespectful. I do want to clarify a few things which I interpreted from your comment. I don't mean to imply that science is NOT instrumental in researching the Psi phenomenon. Instead, I am attempting to communicate that we must keep the distinction of CATEGORIES to avoid falling along the same mistake scientist have made in the past and some who continue to do so. It is not unusual for scientist to cling to pet theories at the neglect of more promising hypothesis or theories. The other concern I have is to blindly or dogmatically accept scientific resolves. It is easy to accept evidence in a tunnel vision manner, and when confronted with new, other alternatives and possibilities, be ignored. If you can envision the analogy of an hypnotist providing you with "stable data" for your mind to operate with, this is what I am getting across. It is nice that we can prove most every physical phenomenon, but with can also be "hypnotize" into thinking in a certain way. But more aberrated is taking something that works in one medium, such as scientific method, and applying it to an evading subject that does not fall in the area of the PHYSICAL (i.e liquid, solid, et al). With all respect to Yaana's effort to scientifically explain electromagnetic wave "state", let's take something like biofeedback. It is easy to make a judgement leap for Brain activity to Mind activity before defining the difference of both. Especially defining the nature of the mind. The nature of the brain, though, is progressively being understood since that is PHYSICAL. Biofeedback is a complex weave of frequency overlapping each other. Dissecting the frequency into classification serves good for examination purposes. But in the end the WHOLE must be taken into consideration. And although biofeedback can extract brainwave level and can entrain brain activity, it doesn't say much about the Mind. So, it is no wonder that each individual react differently to brainwave stimulation as I have noticed in my test on others and myself. Physical functionality may or may not compliment Mental behavior. Expected results of certain wave frequency react differently in some other individual. However, I can't disagree that the data discovered so far is helpful. I think it is. But the proper perspective must be applied to the nature of the paranormal. The findings and results of this science shouldn't necessarily dictate and define Psychic or Paranormal Laws in as much as it might need define or dictate religious theory of creation and so forth; but instead ONLY survey, observe the results, and perhaps explain these sporadic results and idea in a "wordly" way. It is also of no surprise that Eastern philosophy on spiritual and cognitive behavior is finally being mirrored in science. The hard facts and scientific doctrine has kept it from examining Eastern philosophy sooner. It is this blind commitment to the physical that keeps us from improving the spiritual progress of Humankind. Sometimes it is necessary to step outside of the CATEGORIES to obtain a new angle on things, and accept the condition (subject) for what it IS, in its PROPER COMPARTMENT until such time that there is a Unified Theory. So yes, Psi RESULTS can be scientifically analyzed and quantified, but Psi nature cannot not be defined within that CATEGORY. It is diametrically opposed that PHYSICAL cannot be treated in the same way as the META-PHYSICAL, just as the rule of CLASSICAL SCIENCE cannot be treated in the same way in the field of QUANTUM THEORY. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Answer To Steve's answer to Paula
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/43) 21:13:11
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Re: [stargate] Answer To Steve's answer to Paula Ha,ha,ha....thanks again Paula...we are ALL in this together! Love also... electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/44) 21:13:25
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> But in the end the WHOLE must be taken into consideration. ...snip Yes first we must define what we are dealing with: The BRAIN: is a objective, physical mechanism which can be studied and monitored The MIND: is a subjective, psychological mechanism where we store our stimulus response reactions to physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual stimulus, this is individual to each person based on events, choices and beliefs. The CONSCIOUSNESS: is an infinite, spiritual mechanism which must be present for life to exist within form, this has even been scientifically demonstrated in plants, so the consciousness principle exists separate from both Brain or Mind. Consciousness is the medium of the unified field, our most untapped resource and the area represented by the more than 90% of unused space in our brain. . The Skill which is Remote Viewing is two fold, to sync these three on a single focus, and to direct that focus with the intent to acquire and experience the target and retrieve data. This takes discipline and practice much like a Japanese Tea Ceremony, which when understood every tiny movement has a deep significance. Ultimately those who have not experienced a thing, can not conceive of any proof which would satisfy them, and those who have need no further proof. A brief review of ancient spiritual practices will show in almost every culture, simple disciplined, repetitive activities or ceremonies, accompanied with chanting or drumming which are actually theta tones, these practices put the participants into trances for "vision quests" a place they go to answer questions and have deeply moving mystical experiences. Recently we met with a doctor who specializes in using bio-feed back equipment to facilitate treatment of addictive and anti-social behaviors. Our intent was to have our advanced students experience a monitored theta state, so it would be easier for them to duplicate. The doctor was hesitant to take patients to theta without a counseling session because, as she said "when people approach theta, what ever they have suppressed or repressed tends to bubble up". As a minister who has done spiritual counseling for 20 years Ihave seen this occur. The wild card and weak link in this equation is not the brain, nor consciousness, but the psychology, the individual development of each mind. The significance we add to and then invested in over time to give meaning or justification to events and our behaviors is what we use to define our selves, develop our identities, anything which threatens to show us we may have erred in our assessment, no matter how ultimately true or effective becomes the enemy of the mind. Remote Viewing is a practical application of many ancient principals packaged in modern science, regardless of the proofs given mysteries will always remain mysteries to those who look from the outside. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/45) 21:13:49
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Re: [stargate] RV Science Hi Electrix, >I wouldn't have it any other way Steve! My words are no written on concrete to be >followed as Ten Commandments, although sometimes I write in such a manner :-) > >I welcome dissidence. It is a healthy to analyze and acknowledge different views. Insults, >of course, are another matter. I don't engage in such. I am not offended by your response >since I don't feel you are being disrespectful. I'd like to think we're having a good-spirited debate here.. I haven't felt that you were being disrespectful either, and I've actually really enjoyed reading your posts and your essay. I hope you feel the same way. While I might have a different perspective on things, that's what makes us strong as a race. It would be pretty dull if we always agreed, wouldn't it? :) >I do want to clarify a few things which I interpreted from your comment. I don't mean to >imply that science is NOT instrumental in researching the Psi phenomenon. Instead, I am >attempting to communicate that we must keep the distinction of CATEGORIES to avoid falling >along the same mistake scientist have made in the past and some who continue to do so. It >is not unusual for scientist to cling to pet theories at the neglect of more promising >hypothesis or theories. Here, I agree with you completely. I've always had a problem when people clinging to theories, and refusing to consider the alternatives. My definition of science would be an open system - where everything is published openly, and the scientists themselves have open (but still critical-thinking) minds. My idea of a good scientist would be one who is open to everyone and closed to nothing, is prepared to stand up for what he believes is correct (i.e. not being discouraged by the current scientific paradigm, etc.) My approach is to be open to everything, and to just "go with the data." I don't like to wander past that point, unless it's absolutely necessary. I'd prefer to see more experiments organised, or see more data put on the table, before I'd wonder into speculation to obtain answers. (Even "common sense" speculation can lead us down false paths, just as the "common sense" scientists of times gone by believed the Earth was flat and the center of the universe.) (I realise we're probably not in disagreement here, but I just felt I ought to elaborate on my own feelings on the subject here.) >The other concern I have is to blindly or dogmatically accept scientific resolves. It is >easy to accept evidence in a tunnel vision manner, and when confronted with new, other >alternatives and possibilities, be ignored. I think this is an example of scientists going by assumptions - they "know" their current theories are correct, so they reject new data because it would tumble their house of cards. I think the true scientific approach would be to examine the subject thoroughly, and to see if the exception to the rule is actually capable of tumbling the house of cards, and thus.. the rule itself. Then the exception (anomaly) helds to build up a new rule. I've never felt ignoring a subject is scientific. That's why I have such a problem with groups like CSICOP, who claim to be scientific, but then proceed to condemn and all attempts to scientifically examine "the paranormal." (Which reminds me, have you seen CSICOP's latest gripe? With the new X-Files movie, of all things.. :) >If you can envision the analogy of an hypnotist providing you with "stable data" for your >mind to operate with, this is what I am getting across. It is nice that we can prove most >every physical phenomenon, but with can also be "hypnotize" into thinking in a certain >way. Scientism, as I understand it, is a belief in scientist's answers to all questions, is a religion in itself. It believes that scientific theories and explanations are the foundation of reality, and anything that goes against their paradigm must be false, because their theories/laws/ rules are unbreakable. It is the belief that what science does not know about will eventually be fitted in with existing laws, and old laws and theories will not be shaken, except in very minor ways. Scientism.. is (IMO) unscientific. It's assumptions based on facts. I happen to feel that science will experience a few minor and major paradigm shifts while us humans survive on this planet. If a rule cannot explain anomalies, and the anomalies definately exist, then the rule is wrong or incomplete. Scientism would probably dictate that the anomalies must be non-existant and not worth studying because they cannot exist. True science dictates we perform experiments to see if those anomalies really do exist, and go into those experiments unconvinced either way (that it anomalies do, or do not, exist.) >With all respect to Yaana's effort to scientifically explain electromagnetic wave "state", >let's take something like biofeedback. It is easy to make a judgement leap for Brain >activity to Mind activity before defining the difference of both. Especially defining the >nature of the mind. The nature of the brain, though, is progressively being understood >since that is PHYSICAL. I don't think scientists have yet been able to say with any certainiy where or what "mind" is - there's debate as to whether consciousness itself is real or only an illussion. Scientists who are worth their weight cannot afford to make assumptions either way. However, this does not prevent us from comparing brainwave patterns to performance in psi experiments. If a pattern IS found, we can tell there is some kind of relationship between the two. If none is found, we know there isn't a relationship. We can perform these experiments without commenting on the nature of mind or spirit. Science has many methods of testing and experimentating, and the answers science provides us with allow us to better understand what we're studying. There's no telling if science will ever be able to provide us with answers to everything. Some things will always remain subjective. >But in the end the WHOLE must be taken into consideration. And although biofeedback can >extract brainwave level and can entrain brain activity, it doesn't say much about the >Mind. I agree; see above. In studying brainwave patterns and psi performance, scientists are examining the possible relationship between them in order to learn more. Experiments can only test for one thing at a time. In this case, for a relationship between brainwave patterns and psi performance. The results we obtain may only give us half the answers we're looking for, but that it better than nothing. Scientists can eventually make experiments to analyse the things they want to test. But there's an infinite number of possible questions we can ask about an infinite number of subjects. Each experiment is designed to give us just one answer to one question (or, a few answers to a few questions), but there will always be unanswered questions out there. >It is also of no surprise that Eastern philosophy on spiritual and cognitive behavior is >finally being mirrored in science. The hard facts and scientific doctrine I'd like to think that science (hard facts) and scientism (dogma and doctrine) are two separate thngs. Scientists should not believe in anything until they've been able to perform experments for themselves, and got the answers for themselves. Scientism asks us to accept the prevailing scientific views and ignore alternatives. True science would never, I hope, be so blind. >from examining Eastern philosophy sooner. It is this blind commitment to the physical that >keeps us from improving the spiritual progress of Humankind. Sometimes it is necessary to >step outside of the CATEGORIES to obtain a new angle on things, and accept the condition If there is something outside of the physical, is it possible to test for it? If the answer is yes, science can provide answers - so long as we have the technology and knowledge necessary to create an experiment to perform the tests and get the answers. If the answer is no, then there is no way of proving that xyz exists. No test or experiment can be created to test for it. Which seems to suggest it cannot be experienced. If something can be experienced, it can in theory be tested. >So yes, Psi RESULTS can be scientifically analyzed and quantified, but Psi nature cannot >not be defined within that CATEGORY. It is diametrically opposed that PHYSICAL cannot be >treated in the same way as the META-PHYSICAL, just as the rule of CLASSICAL SCIENCE cannot >be treated in the same way in the field of QUANTUM THEORY. But it is important to realise that both classical scienec and quantum theory use experiments to perform tests and gain answers. But it does seem many things in quantum theory will be hard, if not impossible, to prove. This does not prevent us from testing what we can. What we cannot test, we can never be sure about. That doesn't mean I feel people do not have the right to believe in what cannot be tested, it just means we can never be *certain*. We have no clear answers, there are no tests or experiments we can perform. In which case.. these questions cannot can answered, because it is impossible to devise a scientific experiment for them. I'm pretty sure that's what you're trying to say. The problem is, we cannot prove these types of claims (although I guess you could counter that they cannot be disproven as well.) In these cases, I feel we can only rely on what we *can* test for. Anything else is speculation. Although I remain open to the possibility that some things cannot be tested for, with no solid answers, such as seems to exist in the field of quantum theory. However, in these cases no solid answers would be possible. Therefore we have a choice: to either speculate and reach an answer which may be in error, or to not take that step. However.. referring to what I said earlier - re: clinging to theories, and going with the data - scientists are taught not to speculate, and to keep with what the hard facts show us. The data should carry us, not our own feelings, speculations, or assumptions. So my choice is to avoid speculating, and to just go where the data takes me. You are welcome to choose another route. We simply must choose the system that we feel is the most helpful to us, and the most useful. In my opinion, I feel that speculating too much - and that includes clinging to old scientific paradigms as much as accepting new ones - is a route we must be careful about taking. I'd rather not speculate, period - apart from what is absolutely necessary in order to be able to analyse data. Without a minimal amount of speculation and imagination, humans would probably not possess the vast intelligence that we have today. When we look at a car, we'd be incapable of knowing it was a car unless it was identical in every way, shape and form. Imagination - i.e. speculation - is necessary in our species cognitive functions. But I feel that in science, we have to keep this to the lowest possible level. I welcome people who choose to disagree, but my choice is to take the route that requires the most reliable on hard data, and the least reliance on speculation as possible. People must decide for themselves how they want to interpret the world around them. Thanks for this fascinating debate, Electrix.. :-) Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Other RV techniques
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/46) 21:14:00
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Hello, this is my very first post to this list, so I'll keep it short. After having read the complete site of Ingo Swann, most part of PJ's site, ... and all the books I could get about RV, I still don't know which research has been done in countries outside the U.S. I think it would be nice to compare this research with CRV. Methodologies are good to enable things, but at the same time they also limit some possibilities. Different viewpoints on the subject could give us more insight into the mechanisms of RV. So does anyone know of the research that has been done in countries like Russia, China, Israel, Great Brittain, ...? (may also be PK related) Second question I have is, has anyone experience with the RV course of Paraliminal Management Systems (Tim Rifat). It could be interesting because it seems totaly different from the military RV methods. Well that's all for now, and Steve I hope your list will become as important or even more so than PJ's. All the best Frank V stargate : Message: [stargate]
Hi Laura
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/47) 21:14:09
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Hi Laura! Welcome to the list. It is always good to hear from people who are actually trying the remote viewing. Please post some of your sessions. Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Other RV techniques
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/48) 21:14:26
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Re: [stargate] Other RV techniques >this is my very first post to this list, so I'll keep it short. After having >read the complete site of Ingo Swann, most part of PJ's site, ... and all >the books I could get about RV, I still don't know which research has been >done in countries outside the U.S. I think it would be nice to compare >this research with CRV. Methodologies are good to enable things, >but at the same time they also limit some possibilities. Different >viewpoints on the subject could give us more insight into the mechanisms of >RV. So does anyone know of the research that has been done in countries >like Russia, China, Israel, Great Brittain, ...? (may also be PK related) Hi Frank, First, hello and and welcome to this list! I hope you enjoy yourself here, and hopefully learn a little in the process. On RV labs outside America - I expect experiments in other Western countries are geared in much the same way as experiments in the US: performing double-blind trials, gathering statistics, and analysing the results, and attempting to replicate what the US labs have found. There is a psi lab here in Britain, in Edinburgh. I've been meaning to contact them and obtain more information on their research, but I became so occupied with other topics, and in studying US research, that I'd completely forgotten about the Edinburgh (Koestler?) laboratory researchers. Since you've brought foreign research, it gives me a nice timely reminder to get in touch with them. I *really* ought to know what psi research is being done in my own country.. :-) I'll post more information once I have it (I'll start by making a phonecall tommorrow - this is something I've been meaning to do for some time, and now seems as good a time as any.) (According to the documents up on my website, Russian parapsychology in the 70s was geared towards understanding and utilising psi abilities, rather than proving the phenomenon, which was assumed as being a reality.) You want to view the Electronic Reading Room up on my website and examine the report called "Final Report (NBIT)". It is a summary of Western research into 1970s Eastern (Russian) research into psi, and highlights the differences of approach between our 70s labs and their Eastern counterparts. It's quite an interesting read. My website is up at: http://www.progressiveweb.net/stargate/ >Second question I have is, has anyone experience with the RV course of >Paraliminal Management Systems (Tim Rifat). It could be interesting because >it seems totaly different from the military RV methods. The stories I have heard about Paranormal Management Systems are not exactly supportive. Beyond that I really can't comment. I wouldn't buy any of their courses until I'd done some checking, though. >Well that's all for now, and Steve I hope your list will become as important >or even more so than PJ's. I hope this list is successful too, but it really depends on it's members. If people want this list to succeed, then it will. It is a great shame that PJ has decided to close her lists, but it remains her decision and her right to close them if she wants to. She'll be missed. I just hope I'm able to build a list that's half as busy and half as popular as PJ's. That depends as much as anything else on the support of people like you - the posters. If you want this list to succeed, then it will! Thanks for your post, and I hope you find this list useful! I'll post more about UK psi research once I've contacted the Koestler lab in Edinburgh. If you like, you can visit the Koestler Parapsychology Unit, part of the University of Edinburgh, at the address below: http://moebius.psy.ed.ac.uk/ Enjoy! Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Getting the Balance Right
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/49) 21:14:38
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Hello Everyone, I'm glad to see that everyone is finding this list useful, and I hope that everyone is enjoying themselves and learning a little in the process! :) The reason I am making this post is because I would like everyone's opinions on what they'd like to see this list become. PJ's Viewer List was designed so that the general public could ask questions relating to military CRV, and those questions would be answered by the professional viewers and RV pros who frequented the list. This list was moderated in order to keep posts on-topic. PJ's Psi List allowed discussion of related subjects, such as psychic phenomena in general, ghosts, out-of-body-experiences, astral projection, etc. This list wasn't moderated. I am wondering what people want of THIS list. It can be a "serious" list, with emphasis on CRV. Or it could be about "similar" subjects. It could be a general chat list. Or a mixture of all of these. I would like to see this list be 50% light discussion and light research (recounting experiences, sharing ideas, etc.) and 50% serious research, CRV-based. I worry that if the list is too serious, it will put off the more casual readers from contributing, and only a small percentage of people will be interested in contributing. But I also worry that if this chat is too "chatty", it will put off the more serious debators who might decide to leave the list. Because of this, it is important the balance is got right. I'd like people's comments on what kind of list they'd like. Please send your comments by private e-mail to me at steve@... - please do NOT post it to this list! Thank you. I hope you all enjoy this list and will find it useful. Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
jane in lakeland Florida
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/50) 21:14:48
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There are 5 of us who have been working very heavily on this program. We stem from all different backgrounds but have one major thing in common, We all beleive in areselves .I teach small classes in my back yard twice a month on everything involving metaphysics such as astral projection,alternate states of consciousness,deep meditation.and hemispheric syncronization.When we came across remore veiwing we embrased it as a welcoming challenge. Thank you for responding Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/51)
09:23:29
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> The CONSCIOUSNESS: is an infinite, spiritual mechanism which must be present for life to exist > within form, this has even been scientifically demonstrated in plants, so the consciousness > principle exists separate from both Brain or Mind. Consciousness is the medium of the unified > field, our most untapped resource and the area represented by the more than 90% of unused > space in our brain. . Interesting view Yaana. I am not sure if I agree with all aspects of your definitions. I personally, find it to be a challenge just to decide if consciousness IS the Mind as it is. Take for example, Unconsciousness plays a key role in the living. In fact, Unconsciousnes sometimes SERVES the Consciousness with cognitive or/and subliminal data. Thus, Consciousness AND Unconsciousness form a pair, if not the same in regards to state dominance at a particular time. I could delve deeper into this, but I am afraid I could write a volumes on my findings of Consciousness and quoting MIT lab studies. And as far as "separate," consciousness, I visualize it otherwise. I "see" a synergy of independent faculties. Theta brain level, by the way, appeals to the unconscious more so than the conscious, all things being equal. A study on major "legitimate" psychics (Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce) will find a common denominator that they would retreat into Deep Theta or/and Delta. I have trouble accepting many books written on biofeedback since they don't acknowledge essential facts such as: 1. Human biofeedback goes through a cycle in 90 minutes. It goes through Beta, Alpha, Theta, and Delta and a combination thereof. It is like onion skin. One predominates over the other accordingly. At any one point of that cycle we are dipping into Delta quickly or hovering longer (in the case of sleep). So, the state are contiguous and overlapping, not discrete. So, many readers of this technology are ill informed. 2. Entraining oneself into a particular state takes as much effort as practicing RV. I have lied down with the Monroe Hemy-Sync tapes having to RECALL the states induced by his binaural audio, it takes some doing and repetition before being able to "lock-in" to that state. I have used the aid of "brain machine" only to realize that it is more "artificially" induced than practicing the real thing. Now don't get me wrong, each method serves its purpose and I have gotten some interesting results from both. But there is something missing from this technology, it is not reproduced across the board in the same way to all individuals. Thus, again the illusive Mind at play. > The Skill which is Remote Viewing is two fold, to sync these three on a single focus, and to > direct that focus with the intent to acquire and experience the target and retrieve data. This > takes discipline and practice much like a Japanese Tea Ceremony, which when understood every > tiny movement has a deep significance. Yes. At first it requires practice. But that's the way of Mother Nature, isn't it. Humanity is so entrenched in the fast-food, quick-fix, 2 hour Hollywood scenario, we expect everything to come at once. An observation on Mother Nature could tell us a lot about the operational laws of the physical self. I am of the impression that there are receptive microcellular organisms that need to be awaken to "perceive" psychic-ness. In the same way that we have cells that specialize in being receptive to light and only light, is the same way I visualize psi-cellular activity. By the way, there is the thought that the Mind is not merely a synergistic Brain activity but is also within cellular level. Discoveries have been made of amputated people who generate this "mental" energy even though there is no arms or legs. "Fields" have been scientifically detected through instrumentation. Perhaps the future of RV is not having to sit behind a table and generate tons of paperwork.! Mechanism doe not surpass Intention in my books. Once the psi-cellular levels are once more receptive, we would have evolved one step further. > Ultimately those who have not experienced a thing, can not conceive of any proof which would > satisfy them, and those who have need no further proof. A brief review of ancient spiritual > practices will show in almost every culture, simple disciplined, repetitive activities or > ceremonies, accompanied with chanting or drumming which are actually theta tones, these > practices put the participants into trances for "vision quests" a place they go to answer > questions and have deeply moving mystical experiences. Certainly...the way through is DOING IT!. > Recently we met with a doctor who specializes in using bio-feed back equipment to facilitate > treatment of addictive and anti-social behaviors. Our intent was to have our advanced > students experience a monitored theta state, so it would be easier for them to duplicate. The > doctor was hesitant to take patients to theta without a counseling session because, as she > said "when people approach theta, what ever they have suppressed or repressed tends to bubble > up". Well, yes. That is true to certain extent. Since it is difficult to identify that specific area of Theta, I can see why she was hesitant. Doctors freak when they are not IN CONTROL of the pathogens. Scientologist delve heavily in this area through the use of Dianetics. They call it engrams (not the scientifically defined engrams). What many of even well informed Scientologist don't know is that each time they delve into this area they re-inforce the power of that "engram." The antidote to this pathogen must be treated as quickly as possible to diffuse them. They lie sporadically all across our mental lifetime past-life tracks. > As a minister who has done spiritual counseling for 20 years Ihave seen this occur. The wild > card and weak link in this equation is not the brain, nor consciousness, but the psychology, > the individual development of each mind. The significance we add to and then invested in over > time to give meaning or justification to events and our behaviors is what we use to define > our selves, develop our identities, anything which threatens to show us we may have erred in > our assessment, no matter how ultimately true or effective becomes the enemy of the mind. Let's not forget that the unconscious element sometimes DIRECT the conscious behavior without consciousness volition. That is why subliminal messages are so effective if not detrimental. So, personality can be a mush of conscious and unconscious elements establishing prominence. How far can the unconscious take over? Go to the nearest mental asylum. > Remote Viewing is a practical application of many ancient principals packaged in modern > science, regardless of the proofs given mysteries will always remain mysteries to those who > look from the outside. Mysteries are only mysteries because of ignorance. The marketing of mysteries is what keeps the Powers that May Be fill with dough in their pockets and laughing their ass off. However, I get where you are coming from. The "outside" is such a lonely place. :-) Respectfully submitted.... Aloha electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/52)
09:23:55
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> Interesting view Yaana. I am not sure if I agree with all aspects of your definitions. I > personally, find it to be a challenge just to decide if consciousness IS the Mind as it is. Take > for example, Unconsciousness plays a key role in the living. In fact, Unconsciousnes sometimes > SERVES the Consciousness with cognitive or/and subliminal data. Thus, Consciousness AND > Unconsciousness form a pair, if not the same in regards to state dominance at a particular time. I > could delve deeper into this, but I am afraid I could write a volumes on my findings of > Consciousness and quoting MIT lab studies. And as far as "separate," consciousness, I visualize > it otherwise. I "see" a synergy of independent faculties. Scientific and spiritual communities have developed arbitrary assignments such as conscious, unconscious and super conscious, or body, mind and spirit, to describe seemingly separate functions of a functional whole. In the esoteric teachings we have 3 vehicles, which go from dense matter to subtle energies; physical, emotional and mental, all of which are animated by the living breath of spirit (life) and come under the leadership of the soul (individualized consciousness) . Each of these aspects of our being have differing functions; physical (third dimensional vehicle of expression and experience) emotional (vehicle of communication... not intended for constant drama) and mental (like the software program which takes the available data and stores/ presents it in a usable fashion) and the soul the keeper of the purpose. The more society evolves, the more our minds develop, the further we get away from our natural selves, and project arbitrary judgments of superstitious nonsense on natural experiences until we learn not to trust or recognize them. That does not mean that our souls stop communicating, but it does mean that the impressions, perceptions, and sensations sent into our daily mix will be interpreted by the mind, and either validated or invalidated. There is an old programmers saying "garbage in, garbage out". man has evolved into amazing problem solvers, we demonstrate everyday things tantamount to miracles. Yet some problems allude us. I suggest that in society as with individuals problems that will not solve, or get bigger no matter what you do are false problems. False not in that they are not genuine problems, but false in that we have incomplete or inaccurate perception of what the real issue is. Trust of our innate selves has been trained out of most of us, the modern resurgence of spirituality is an attempt to reclaim our birth right. > Theta brain level, by the way, appeals to the unconscious more so than the conscious, all things > being equal....snip High Theta is the threshold to sleep. There is a handshake between low Alpha and high theta where there is an exchange of control between the conscious mind and the sub-conscious, or autonomic system. In altered state RV we train to maintain the ability to communicate in that slim window, where the primary consciousness has fallen asleep, because it is in that window that target can be experienced and congruent data retrieved with out the filter of the minds interpretation. If the viewer falls asleep the session is over and the data is useless. Psychologist study man as a stimulus response animal, in so doing they have created many false problems. Stimulus response is the medium of the mind, but not the totality of the being or the limit of it's potential. Ironic because the direct translation of the word Psychology means, study of the soul. Our science and many religions train us to discredit our essential selves and replace it with memorized facts figures and dogmas, but as you can see from the world we have created it is time to go back inside and trust both who we are and what we know as essential beings and question or leave behind many of the social facades which cripple us. It delights me to know end the the military has developed a structured system that, if followed , will lead you exactly there, into a direct experience of your full potential, but no one ever said it was going to be easy, not because the system does not work, but precisely because it does. In using it you will be faced with dismantling false beliefs or discrediting the system which put your nose in it, so far we have a more than 50% drop out rate. Humans are such creatures of comfort, most would rather keep the illusions they are comfortable with, than face a truth that would change their lives. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: [stargate]
Differences Between UK and US Research
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/53)
09:24:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
Hi All, I've just been browsing the website of the Koestler Parapsychology Unit, which is part of the University of Edinburgh. In reviewing the information up on their website, it seems that UK researchers are taking a difference approach to psi than their US counterparts. There are two working hypothesises in UK labs - the pseudopsi hypothesis, and the psi hypothesis. It appears that the UK is working about equally on the theory of pseudopsi as it is to pro-psi theories, and so is pursueing both possibilities. The below text is taken from Koestler's Mission Statement. Someone asked about UK research, so I hope this answers his question. It's worth noting that the UK is home to some of the biggest skeptics of remote-viewing - Richard Wiseman and Susan Blackmore, for example. Susan Blackmore had an out-of-body experience when she was younger, which shook her beliefs somewhat and made her feel we could OBE, but when she later took an aerial look of the area she supposedly was OBEing over, found that it was completely different. For her, this sowed the first seeds of doubt, and she now feels that our brains are incredibly complex devices that are capable of mimicking real-life imagery in incredible detail, but she's not convinced that psi exists (yet.) Nonetheless, "pro"-psi and "anti"-psi theories seem to have both been tested in UK labs. Below is the Koestler Lab's Mission Statement. PARAPSYCHOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF EDINBURGH Introduction The noted writer and critic Arthur Koestler and his wife Cynthia provided in their wills for the establishment of an endowed Chair of Parapsychology at a British university. The declared intention was to further objective scientific research into "the capacity attributed to some individuals to interact with their environment by means other than the recognised sensory and motor channels". Following the Koestlers' deaths in 1982, their trustees advertised the post and in 1984 awarded the Chair to the University of Edinburgh. In 1985 I was fortunate enough to be invited to serve as the first occupant of the Chair, taking up the post in December of the same year. My remit was to develop a systematic and responsible research programme that would integrate this controversial area into the ongoing research and teaching activities of the university community. As our tenth anniversary approaches, I have been invited to describe how we have gone about our task during these years. We have fairly limited resources. Our basic funding, from the Koestler Endowment earnings and from the Literary Estate, provides for a full-time secretary ( Mrs Helen Sims ) and two postdoctoral fellows, one fulltime ( Dr. Deborah Delanoy) and one part-time (Dr. Caroline Watt). We are located within the Department of Psychology, where I do some teaching and supervise research students at both Honours and postgraduate levels. Six students have now completed Ph.D's under my supervision, on theses related to parapsychology. We receive some additional research funding from outside institutions, for student support and for necessary equipment. Integrative Parapsychology In setting up a research plan, one of our main problems was to clarify just what serious parapsychology involves. Anyone can call themselves a parapsychologist, and media representations tend to put entertainment first with accuracy at best an afterthought. Thus we have developed what we call an Integrative Parapsychology, with six features: 1. We regard parapsychology as the study of apparent new means of communication, or interaction, between organisms and their environment (commonly referred to as psi, or psychic ability), beyond those presently understood by the scientific community. 2. Parapsychology is an interdisciplinary problem area, not a separate discipline and not just a subset of psychology. 3. Parapsychology questions rather than presumes; our remit is to investigate a capacity attributed to some individuals and we are under no obligation to presume that capacity's existence. 4. Parapsychology incorporates the investigation of two sets of working hypotheses: the 'pseudopsi hypothesis', which states that most if not all of the evidence for psi is spurious, the result of our being misled or misinterpreting observations; and the 'psi hypothesis', which states that we do appear under certain conditions to have access to some genuinely new means of communication. 5. Parapsychology involves the study of observers drawing inferences, and can profit from the use of models of how we make observations about ostensibly psychic events, including how we can be misled by ourselves and others. 6. Parapsychology uses the tools of science, including detailed descriptions of natural occurrences, surveys, hypothesis formulation and testing, correlational studies, controlled experimental studies with systematic variation of condition, and construction of theoretical models. What's not psychic but looks like it... Our research has largely proceeded along two main lines. One involves the study of "what's not psychic but looks like it". Psychology has long been involved in the study of self-deception and error in human perception, memory, thinking and decision making. Within our group, Carl Williams is looking at some of the factors that lead us to attribute meaning to ambiguous information, with an eye toward eventual clinical application. Tony Lawrence is developing and testing a model of the factors involved in the formation of beliefs about psychic phenomena, as we are growing up and as adults as well. Additionally we have become quite involved in the psychology of conjuring and deliberate deception, drawing both on an integration of the relatively obscure writings of professional magicians and fraudsters and on experimental studies. This research involves surveys of the techniques for both physical and mental effects, as well as strategies for presenting information to observers. Richard Wiseman has studied the effects of observers' attitudes toward psi upon their ability to reconstruct the details of fraudulent psychic demonstrations shown to them on videotape, finding that those with positive attitudes were less likely to notice details related to how the trick was done. It's important as well to understand the psychological strategies of the confidence artist and the techniques by which psychic claimants attempt to negotiate the rules by which their claims will be accepted or rejected. Our work in these areas is currently best represented in a little book recently co-authored by Dr Wiseman and myself, Guidelines for Testing Psychic Claimants. It includes a description of the strategies pseudopsychics can use to produce even complex patterns of results in their data fraudulently. Of additional interest are the strategies by which fake psychic researchers persuade clients that they know all about the clients through psychic means. Chris Roe has specialised in this area, particularly in the verbal strategies often used. Together we are gradually working toward the development of a general model of deception, including the social context of such deceptive acts. We hope this line of research will be beneficial directly to parapsychological research as well as cognitive and clinical psychology and other disciplines where deception may be involved. Assessing new means of communication Our second main line of research involves assessment of the evidence for genuine new means of communication, including the development of better descriptive tools for exploring daily life experiences as well as experimental tools for producing psychic effects with sufficient strength and consistency that they can contribute to systematic research programmes to develop and test models of how psychic functioning, if it exists, actually works. Some of this work involves a mix of questionnaire and interviews. Shari Cohn has used both to explore 'second sight' experiences within family units, analysing the material both quantitatively and qualitatively to look for patterns in the nature of the experiences themselves, family relationships and other salient factors. Carlos Alvarado is also using both techniques to look for patterns in a specific kind of transpersonal experience known as an out-of-body experience, closely related to near-death experiences. Such research has been an under-represented component of formal parapsychology and can contribute a great deal to understanding the richness of the experiences involved, as well as in the development and testing of models about their nature. Naturalistic settings Other research may involve bringing systematic investigation tools into naturalistic settings, to overcome the problems of ecological validity frequently associated with controlled, laboratory-based research with living organisms. We have done very little in this area, other than to explore ways of sealing off target materials that can then be turned over to individuals for exploratory work in non-laboratory settings. One study by Dr. Wiseman and Dr. John Beloff with an individual claimant produced chance results; another by Drs. Delanoy, Watt, Wiseman and myself with several individuals previously successful in the lab produced positive results. We will be pursuing this area, always in consultation with magicians, as part of our effort to conduct at least some of our research in more natural settings. Laboratory studies - extrasensory perception Most of our effort in this area has gone towards experimental studies of deliberate attempts to produce psychic effects in our own research facilities within the Psychology Department, emphasising procedures that have had a good track record with several other researchers. One line of research follows a noise reduction model for ESP studies and uses amild sensory reduction technique known as the ganzfeld procedure, plus progressive relaxation, asking relaxed participants in a shielded room to produce mental impressions about the content of short film clips being displayed several rooms away. The procedure is automated and includes security features to guard against fraud by researchers as well as participants. Our results with this procedure are very encouraging, with effect sizes similar to those obtained elsewhere by researchers with less well safeguarded facilities, and our research with this technique continues. Several researchers have been involved with this work, including Kathy Dalton, Deborah Delanoy, Caroline Watt and final year undergraduate students in addition to myself. Another line of research by Caroline Watt involves looking at individual differences in perceptual defensiveness and vigilance, following up on research done in several other countries indicating that people who score as defensive on a defense mechanism test do more poorly on controlled ESP tests. She has found similar results using a more objective procedure to assess perceptual defensiveness and vigilance, with vigilant people scoring better. This is consistent with the notion that for some people the information may be more distorted in the course of processing, although the finding may have other interpretations as well. A third line of research has explored techniques purported to train or enhance psychic ability. This line of research, largely conducted by Dr. Delanoy, Dr. Watt, Dr. Loftur Gissurarson and myself has presently produced only mixed results at best, and has in part contributed to the falsification of certain claims for psychic development techniques. Psychokinesis A fourth line of research involves attempts to influence through mental activity, e.g. intentions, the behaviour of electronic equipment such as random number generators based on a source of noise. Such research may seem inherently extremely implausible, as surely we would know it by now if we had any such ability. Nevertheless, low level but consistent effects have been produced in a variety of other laboratories. Our own results have produced at best extremely weak results, although there has been a tendency for the results to be stronger with those having more positive attitudes toward the possibility and those who feel they have had spontaneous experiences suggesting such effects. This research has been conducted largely by Dr Konrad Morgan, Dr Gissurarson and Paul Stevens, in addition to final year undergraduate students. We regard the work as contributing to the falsification of some hypotheses regarding the linkage between operator attitude and equipment failure. Interaction with living systems A fifth line of research involves attempts by an active agent to influence the body physiology of a receiver several rooms away. One version of this involves exploring the idea of remote staring effects, through the use of closed circuit video. Although we are encouraged by some exploratory studies, this line of research is still in its preliminary stages. It is being conducted largely by Dr. Delanoy and Zachary McDermott. History of parapsychology A final area of research involves the history and social context of criticism in parapsychology, conducted by Nancy Zingrone, and a set of surveys of methodological problems and issues by Dr. Julie Milton. Concluding remarks In short, our research programme is still in early stages, with more progress in some areas than others. We are clearly contributing to a better understanding of how we can be misled, both by ourselves and others, and we appear as well to be identifying certain areas where genuine psychic effects may be more readily manifest under conditions that will allow us to explore them more systematically. We are attempting to apply the tools of science to an extremely complex set of human experiences and their interpretation and we are acutely aware that we must avoid both the false positive error of claiming something is there when in fact it is not, as well as the false negative error of declaring something is not there when in fact it is. Both errors are bad science. Author: Robert L. Morris Koestler Chair of Parapsychology, March 1995. Last modified: 24th. January 1996 Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Differences Between UK and US Research
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/54)
09:24:31
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> PARAPSYCHOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF > EDINBURGH EXCELLENT post Steve, thank you !!!! Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Differences Between UK and US Research
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/55)
09:24:46
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Steve-- Thanks for the post. I've been up on the Koestler webpage a number of times, but never actually read their introductory material--spent all my time reading posted papers and such. They've been up to more than the rest of their webpage necessarily shows! Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/56)
09:25:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
> Scientific and spiritual communities have developed arbitrary assignments such as conscious, > unconscious and super conscious, or body, mind and spirit, to describe seemingly separate functions > of a functional whole. In the esoteric teachings we have 3 vehicles, which go from dense matter to > subtle energies; physical, emotional and mental, all of which are animated by the living breath of > spirit (life) and come under the leadership of the soul (individualized consciousness) . Each of > these aspects of our being have differing functions; physical (third dimensional vehicle of expression > and experience) emotional (vehicle of communication... not intended for constant drama) and mental > (like the software program which takes the available data and stores/ presents it in a usable fashion) > and the soul the keeper of the purpose. This is indeed from the human perception and perspective of itself. > The more society evolves, the more our minds develop, the further we get away from our natural selves, > and project arbitrary judgments of superstitious nonsense on natural experiences until we learn not to > trust or recognize them. That does not mean that our souls stop communicating, but it does mean that > the impressions, perceptions, and sensations sent into our daily mix will be interpreted by the mind, > and either validated or invalidated. There is an old programmers saying "garbage in, garbage out". > man has evolved into amazing problem solvers, we demonstrate everyday things tantamount to miracles. > Yet some problems allude us. I suggest that in society as with individuals problems that will not > solve, or get bigger no matter what you do are false problems. False not in that they are not genuine > problems, but false in that we have incomplete or inaccurate perception of what the real issue is. > Trust of our innate selves has been trained out of most of us, the modern resurgence of spirituality > is an attempt to reclaim our birth right. Can't argue there. But just to be meticulous, I would like to point out a few things. I believe it should be that society (people's mental conglomeration and agreed upon rules of behavior) dictates our mores and the more we acknowledge societies' principles without question the more we reduced our perceptions [philosophical introspection]. Science, by default, is reductionism followed blindly. It is expansionism applied rationally with no prejudice [scientific introspection]. Also, "problems that will not solve" may be due to improperly applied solutions, like the right CONTENT in the WRONG CATEGORY. Like constantly using statistical data to prove an esoteric point. Somehow, the agenda switches to using science to validate one's conviction to others, which up to now has been futile to the progress of the nature of Psi. Statistician can't even agree on their figure, muchless the dumbfounded, unschooled bystanders that are struck with a tower of formulas to INTERPRET. That's reductionism at its worst. As far as false problems and solutions the answer is using False Data Stripping (a borrowed concept and terminology not of my own). > In altered state RV we train to maintain the ability to communicate in that slim window, > where the primary consciousness has fallen asleep, because it is in that window that target can be > experienced and congruent data retrieved with out the filter of the minds interpretation. If the > viewer falls asleep the session is over and the data is useless. Sounds like my period in time when I was learning to meditate. :-) > Psychologist study man as a stimulus response animal, in so doing they have created many false > problems. Now, come on...let's cut some of them some slack. Things have gotten a little more sophisticated these days. Some are Cognitive Scientist in disguise. :-) Actually, many good questions AND answers have been possed by the best.. i.e.Carl Jung and Abraham Maslow. > Stimulus response is the medium of the mind, but not the totality of the being or the limit > of it's potential. Ironic because the direct translation of the word Psychology means, study of the > soul. Our science and many religions train us to discredit our essential selves and replace it with > memorized facts figures and dogmas, but as you can see from the world we have created it is time to go > back inside and trust both who we are and what we know as essential beings and question or leave > behind many of the social facades which cripple us. Yeah... I call it Reductionism --- infinite ability to zero ability. > It delights me to know end the the military has developed a structured system that, if followed , will > lead you exactly there, into a direct experience of your full potential, but no one ever said it was > going to be easy, not because the system does not work, but precisely because it does. In using it > you will be faced with dismantling false beliefs or discrediting the system which put your nose in it, > so far we have a more than 50% drop out rate. Humans are such creatures of comfort, most would rather > keep the illusions they are comfortable with, than face a truth that would change their lives. I don't know if I should take offense to that having been in the Army. But I am sure you mean well. :-). Just one thing, I don't believe for one minute that Remote Viewing is not the cure all. At the rate of RV marketing, it is quickly becoming like a religion. None dare step and speak otherwise, or face being chopped to pieces. There are a lot of "flavors" out there. Let's remember, that the Way of Knowing is hardly relegated solely to RV. Aloha electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Differences Between UK and US Research
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/57)
09:31:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
Hi Paul, >Thanks for the post. Thank you for joining the list, and for posting! I've been up on the Koestler webpage a number of >times, but never actually read their introductory material--spent all my >time reading posted papers and such. They've been up to more than the rest >of their webpage necessarily shows! I expect that's true, but nonetheless there's a lot of fascinating information and studies up on their website, and it's certainly intriguing. As an Internet techie, I found the Psi-Ping experiment -particularly- interesting. For the non-technies, an Internet ping is a test signal sent to a computer, which then returns the signal. The purpose is to measure 'lag time', since ping tests will tell you if a signal was sent and received, and if so, what the lag time on it was. (The lag-time varies depending on a variety of semi-random factors of the way the Internet operates.) They are asking people to attempt to influence the ping time, both speeding it up and slowing it down. The results from the first experiment are interesting. The results seem to suggest we have the ability to increase Internet lag time, but not decrease it. (The results show a significant effect for slowing down Internet pings, but not speeding it up.) (Anyone interesting in the Psi-Ping experiment can get more information by visiting the Koestler Parapsychology Unit at http://moebius.psy.ed.ac.uk/ and following the links to the experiments/psi-ping page.) Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/58)
09:31:27
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
Hi Electrix, You've not replied to any of my posts recently. I hope I've not said anything to offend you? If there's anything you need me to explain further, don't hesitate to ask me. >Can't argue there. But just to be meticulous, I would like to point out a few >things. I believe it should be that society (people's mental conglomeration and >agreed upon rules of behavior) dictates our mores and the more we >acknowledge societies' principles without question the more we reduced our >perceptions [philosophical introspection]. I certainly agree that the more we blend in with society or a group, and if we're not careful, the individual can lose their unique identity within it. As someone who grew up the victim of prejudice, I can tell you that people who are different are viewed by some cultures and societies as being a threat, and try to force a certain degree of conformity on those who are different or who hold different views. Luckily, this is not true of everyone. I would say that only half of society acts this way. The other half is thankfully more liberal, and not so threatening to "different" people like you or I. I believe that a wide range of views and opinions are healthy and should be encouraged. Otherwise, we risk losing their unique input and insights. Afterall, is it not the differences that make us strong? >Science, by default, is reductionism followed blindly. I believe it is important to define the difference between a few things here. First, there is science. In it's purest form, science is based on hypothesises and theories, which are then tested through a variety of experiments. The results of those experiments, if validated after peer-review, then guide the direction of future research. Second, there are scientists. These are people who are supposed to follow the rules of science. However, as with any individuals or groups, there are consensus views, majority views. Some people in society, and this includes some scientists (they're human afterall!), are highly influenced by the majority view, and might be more shier, prefering to emphasise results that tow the consensus view, and being a lot more skeptical and suspicious of results that go agaisnt the mould. The towing of a consensus view without critical thinking, I call "scientism", and I am not sure if it is the same scientism most people are referring to, but I believe it is. Scientism does not base it's conclusions on results of independent scientific experiments, but on the prevailing point of view within the mainstream scientific community. Taking scientism to it's extremes, we get groups like CSICOP. CSICOP are an extremely unscientific and religious organisation, which seems to be based on their own unique blend of scientism and reductionism. It is important to notice, that scientism is NOT science. This is a common misconception, and one I had made for many years. Scientism is a religion. The *only* thing that separates scientism from most religions, is that the Gods of Scientism are the leading, most influential scientists and the prevailing scientific viewpoint of the time. While scientism may be a reductionist philosophy, based upon years of research and scientific opinion, it is still a religion. Religions are rigid, closed-minded, and accepted on faith. Scientists who accept the word of their prominent peers on 'faith in facts' (facts being what their peers tell them it is), could be said to be following scientism. Scientists who, on the other hand, question and critique the word of their peers, and attempt to replicate their findings, to see if their theory is correct, are the true scientists. Science works through open-minded investigation and experimentation, rather than reliance on what leading scientists have to say (which is scientism). This is why I am supportive and sympathetic to remote-viewing skeptics. Skeptics are often called many nasty names, but there are honest skeptics out there too, who are following the tenets of science: question the results, and perform experiments of their own. I feel these kinds of efforts should be -encouraged-. >Like constantly using statistical data to prove an esoteric point. Science has to rely on whatever data is available. Statistical and mathematical-based experiments are useful for testing for the existance of psi (figure out the "chance" level, perform tightly- controlled experiments, collect the results). In the case of psi, in what other way can we objectively test for the existence of the phenomenon, if we do not rely on statistical methods? I'm welcome to hear alternative testing methods, methods which can be independently and objectivity verified. >Somehow, the agenda switches to using science to validate >one's conviction to others, which up to now has been futile >to the progress of the nature of Psi. Whenever the agenda becomes to proving the existence of something, or disproving it, objectivity is lost. Science demands that no assumptions are made - and that if any are made, such as in making theories - that the purpose is to allow an experiment to proced, and that an objective test is created to determine if the theory is correct or false, BEFORE it becomes generally accepted. The test should be performed by objective and impartial individuals. If not such people exist, then it should be performed by a mixture of supporters and skeptics who can try and hash out a middle-ground they can both work within. >Statistician can't even agree on their figure, muchless the >dumbfounded, unschooled bystanders that are struck with a >tower of formulas to INTERPRET. That's reductionism at >its worst. I would call it scientific debate. Formulas and statistics can be used correctly or incorrectly. Those who argue about the accuracy of a statistical formula, may feel that the statistical method is misleading or deceptive, or insufficient in some way. We need to hear their views, so we can analyse their criticisms and see if they have merit. Debate and peer-review are an essential part of the scientific process. This is a fact that followers of scientism often seem to forget. Scientists are not infalliable. Scientists disagree all the time. It's because we all view things differently. Even if we are using the same processes, we may have different experiences and expertise which causes us to analyse and view the results in different ways. As wide a range of opinions as possible should be saught, IMO. The process of peer-review is designed to create an atmosphere in which both supporters and skeptics of a subject can come to a prior agreement on how a test will be performed and measured, so that both groups can call the experiment objective - even if they choose to view the results in a different way (see above on differences of opinion). Once that is agreed, the test can proceed. No changes should be made to the agreed parameters of the experiment by either the supporters or the skeptics, once the parameters have been agreed to. Then both groups must agree to accept the results, if they were unable to find fault beforehand in the methods they chose to use. Of course, this will not be sufficient for scientists or researchers who are *outside* of the experiment and unable to monitor it and be an integral part of it. That's why there are several psi labs, not just one. And that's also why certain members of the public want to be able to reproduce the psi labs results, outside of the laboratory. >>soul. Our science and many religions train us to discredit our essential selves >>and replace it with memorized facts figures and dogmas, but as you can see >>from the world we have created it is time to go back inside and trust both who >>we are and what we know as essential beings and question or leave >>behind many of the social facades which cripple us. >Yeah... I call it Reductionism --- infinite ability to zero ability. I would argue that we should not by default accept what someone tells us, be they part ofa religion or scientific institution, if we feel it is an important enough topic to gain correct answers to. In these cases, we should aim to form our own experiments, set up parameters which are fair and objective, and do the tests yourself. >I don't know if I should take offense to that having been in the Army. But I >am sure you mean well. :-). Just one thing, I don't believe for one minute >that Remote Viewing is not the cure all. At the rate of RV marketing, it >is quickly becoming like a religion. None dare step and speak otherwise, >or face being chopped to pieces. There are a lot of "flavors" out there. >Let's remember, that the Way of Knowing is hardly relegated solely to RV. I think it is important that we all remember that it is *not* a crime to ask the difficult questions, and expect answers. True science does not ask us to accept anything on faith. It asks us to perform experiments and find our for ourselves, always being on the look-out for possible mistakes or errors that might contaminate the results and thus the accuracy of the conclusions. Unfortunately, it seems that many people training for science degrees are instead being taught to memorize and regurgitate information, and assured that the experiments and the results are sound. I do not feel this is healthy. I believe that true science is a system where no assumptions can be made, and our belief is guided by the data. Where we have no answers, we shouldn't resort to speculating or assumptions. Or if we do, because it is part of a personal belief system for example, then it should be kept separate from the science that we do, and we should not let it intefere in the scientific process. I hope you appreciate my comments are not meant in any way to criticise you for holding your views. I just feel that scientism and science are being confused. Many of the comments you may are true of scientism, but not of science itself. Science does not take anything on faith; rather, scientific objectivity and experimentation dictates that we are guided by the data, always on the look-out for possible flaws or errors that may mean our data is incorrect. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/59)
09:31:39
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> In altered state RV we train to maintain the ability to communicate in that slim window, > where the primary consciousness has fallen asleep, because it is in that window that target can be > experienced and congruent data retrieved with out the filter of the minds interpretation. If the > viewer falls asleep the session is over and the data is useless. >> About half true.....In fact when a viewer is performing Coordinate Remote Viewing they are wide awake, vibrant and alert sitting at a table (not lying in a bed) in well lit room with only a monitor offering guidance and they progress through the several phases of activities which "lock" them on to the target signal and begin delivering data which they write down or even sketch as the session progresses....In remote viewing in which a state of semi- conscious response is used...we have learn to call this Extended Remote Viewing...the viewer does lie in a bed, in a darkened room, silenced to a the greates extent possible with a monitor to guide them through the session...it is the monitor's responsibility to "move" them at the target, to note the data being spoken my the viewer and to insure the viewer maintains a proper level of altered state...(he keeps them on the edge of wakefulness and sleep).... There you have it...my first input to the Stargate net...see how nasty I can be... Gene Kincaid..... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/60)
09:31:53
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electrix wrote: > snip......Just one thing, I don't believe for one minute that Remote Viewing is not the cure all. At the > rate of RV > marketing, it is quickly becoming like a religion. None dare step and speak otherwise, or face being > chopped to pieces. There are a lot of "flavors" out there. Let's remember, that the Way of Knowing is > hardly relegated solely to RV. > > Aloha > electrix I do not mean to imply that RV is a cure all, because it is not, but it has validity for those who wish to pursue it. I have meditated and investigated many "consciousness raising techniques" for 20 years I find RV to be a refreshingly disciplined and logical technique which when diligently applied produces amazingly consistent and verifiable results, not just in data collection but in the potential for personal growth. As far as religions go, marketing of RV which focuses the attention on personalities rather than product produces just the effects you describe. Any technique with the promise and impact of RV would generate a firestorm on it's own but when you combine volatile personalities making failed predictions who refuse to submit their work for peer review, this gives people who are threatened by RV an easy target to discredit the whole body of work, and for many that is all they hear. I want to thank Steve for this forum to discuss topics like these. We do not always have to agree but in the process of presenting points of view we will educate each other. When people speak from internalized experience they are the most compelling. Many times these experiences have been so complete they did not feel the need to find scientific justifications for what they KNOW, indeed until the past few decades with the advent of quantum theory and the like none was available. In order to resist the mindless acceptance of reductionism we have to learn to verify, trust and develop our internal experience. RV is a very powerful tool in this quest, and therefor is seen as a threat to those who hold their secrets most dear because it was born as an intelligence gathering tool. In the private sector most students seem more interested in personal development than in busting conspiracies, but when enough people become conscious and aware it may have the same effect. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/61)
09:32:31
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<< I don't know if I should take offense to that having been in the Army. But I am sure you mean well. :-). Just one thing, I don't believe for one minute that Remote Viewing is not the cure all. At the rate of RV marketing, it is quickly becoming like a religion. None dare step and speak otherwise, or face being chopped to pieces. There are a lot of "flavors" out there. Let's remember, that the Way of Knowing is hardly relegated solely to RV. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/62)
09:32:52
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I am sure you mean well. :-). Just one thing, I don't believe for one minute that Remote Viewing is not the cure all. At the rate of RV marketing, it is quickly becoming like a religion. None dare step and speak otherwise, or face being chopped to pieces. There are a lot of "flavors" out there. Let's remember, that the Way of Knowing is hardly relegated solely to RV. >> As a retired member of the Army and former member of the Defense Department's attempts at professional Remote Viewing...I take special umbrage at the inference that to be a professional soldier you must become a mindless automaton....The military is a dynamic and exciting profession offering many opportunities for freedom of thought and ideas to make the system better...As to RV be the end all...Crap...it is only a method of accessing data available to everyone...Marketing of RV has indeed made it a cottage industry for many..I am, of course, amazed at the RV "miricle of the fishes" that took less than a total ot three dozen people who were ever involved in the military program (all of whom I know by their first name) and mysteriously increased that number to virtually hundreds of people who claim to have been in the unit....I would caution anyone seeking instruction to discount out of hand, any offers to teach RV based upon previous membership in the old organization since there are only five people who were members who actually teach RV...to of whom do it for free...refusing any monies for personal reasons...So seek out instruction but be very careful.... Regards...Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/63)
09:33:02
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Aloha Gene, I agree with your comments on the role of the monitor. The viewer's approach to functioning at low states of awareness is complimented by a monitor who can keep the viewer pretty balanced and responsive. I think the viewer skill lies in being able to function in a sort of inclined orbit at or near theta. A lazy 8 pattern above theta for monitor recognition/dialog followed by a drop in active awareness for insight. No so much a Yo-Yo effect, but more of a wave cycle or surging of consciousness. Aloha ... Glenn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/64)
09:33:14
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Steve-- How'd you get so smart, anyway? I agree very much with most of what you have said in this post, with the following minor exception (and I hope I understood correctly, otherwise I may be objecting to something I might otherwise agree with!). At 01:20 PM 6/26/98 +-100, you wrote: >I believe that true science is a system where no assumptions can be made, >and our belief is guided by the data. Where we have no answers, we >shouldn't resort to speculating or assumptions. Or if we do, because it is >part of a personal belief system for example, then it should be kept separate >from the science that we do, and we should not let it intefere in the scientific >process. First, we couldn't HAVE science without assumptions. Math and logic are based on certain elementary, fundamental assumptions that cannot be further proved, and on those the rest of the structure is built. Speculations and (other) assumptions are important, because it is upon those that hypothesis are built which, when tested successfully, produce theories. The progress that has been made in psi research owes as much to that premise as does mainstream science. Of course, sometimes hypothesis and theories are wrong, because the speculations and assumptions were wrong. But that's the breaks of having only this trial and error system on which to rely for discovering the basis of truths about the universe. And in fact we could never progress if students were not taught to assume the knowledge base they were building on was correct. Human progress rests on the idea that succeeding generations build on the foundation that was laid before. The alternative would be every generation having to prove the same things over again, which means they'd never get around to any new discoveries. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't go back and replace rotten planks we discover in the platform of knowledge upon which we stand. The key is not that we reject speculation and assumption, but rather that science should insist more strongly on the questioning of assumptions and "received truth" whenever there seems to be a credible conflict between observed fact and established notions. (I use "credible" here because there are claims made every day that are prima facie ridiculous, and if scientists went chasing willynilly after every crazy claim, they'd never get around to curing cancer or finding magic bullets with which to clean up the environment and such ;-). So anyway, there's my minuscule contribution to the debate! Enjoy, Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/65)
09:33:26
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Well, Gene! I was about to e-mail you. Glad you found your way to Steve's e-mail group. Don't know how a red-blooded Irish lad like yourself can manage to participate in a group hosted out of the homeland of the English oppressor, but I know Steve to be a tolerant sort, so I'm sure he'll manage to put up with the likes o' ya' . Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: [stargate]
Jeffery's remote influencing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/66)
09:33:39
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Hi everybody. I was reading another board and found an interesting post. I want to share it with this group and get some feedback. It is a good topic: remote influencing. The author of the following is "Jeffery". I hope I am not violating nettiquete by reposting his post. I mean well. "Remote Influencing: Some have asked about the ramifications of remote influencing within remote viewing. It is a human ability that we manipulate each other with in different ways in our every day lives. The Remote Viewing application is much more focused and specific, remote healing is in-fact remote influencing in a positive light. At the Farsight Institute remote influencing was taught to those in advanced training, it was not encouraged, but taught as just one of the many tools available to us all as remote viewers. I have not used these skills and have not really seen a need where I could justify using it yet, but I have felt and experienced the effects of remote influencing during specific Remote Viewing sessions. On one occasion the viewer was not getting any data at all when placed at the objective, the normal flow of data just stopped. The viewer felt the change and reported seeing fog or a gray wall when asked to describe the objective. On this occasion we used some movements and penetrated the gray wall, now the viewer was willing to do this. The viewer suffered a bloody nose and an extreme headache, as soon as the wall was penetrated. The objective was then very clear and the visual cleaned up accordingly, after we had obtained our goals set forth within that session, I did some recon of the source of the Remote influencing and we surprised the" you know what" out of this other team of viewers. We made our presence known to them and they were not pleased with their failure at all. So yes this is happening in the now, being a good viewer enables you to sense when and where remote influencing is going on to a higher degree than normal. This other group was well organized and well financed who knows what their full time mission goals might be. Hope this information helps a little, if you want to be remote influenced right now just go turn on the "Boob tube" and sit down and mellow into a nice alpha state for a few hours and get your daily programming folks. Im sure you will be off for some fast food before you know it. Dont forget your Crest toothpaste and that favorite beverage uummmm baby . LOL " stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/67)
09:33:54
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Curran2106@... wrote: > I take special umbrage at the > inference that to be a professional soldier you must become a mindless > automaton.... Anyone who has listened to these guys go back and forth on PJs list know these arehighly individualistic persons each with a mind of his own. And as someone who is in training with Paul, and who debates issues with him freely, I can tell you not only do they think for themselves, but they also expect it from those they work with in training. Steve your list is off to a good start! Your comments re: science vs. scientism were particularly appropo. It's easy to get tangled in the throes of identification with a particular stance, as we all are prone to do. Clarifying the differences is important. For instance in any generalized statement which groups people in order to make some point about what you don't like, we end up making false connections. As in, we have to be clear that the scientists are not all fatally flawed with the disease of scientism; the psychologists are not all fatally flawed with the disease of behaviorism; and army or military does not equal automaton. Learning to RV does not negate my prior interests and utilization of meditation and dreamwork. Paul and Joe are artists as well as RVers. Gene as we know is a familiar with the wee people, and that's quite an accomplishment which requires vigilance and humor. Above all, we should endeavor to experiment for ourselves with any discipline or system to determine whether it will have value within our personal lives. If it doesn't that still does not negate the value of it for another individual. In dealing with RV I haven't laid aside all of my personal experience in other disciplines; to the contrary I'm now very clear about how they all compliment one another and enhance one another. Shelia stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/68)
09:34:13
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> You've not replied to any of my posts recently. Actually, I thought you were taking a break from discussions. I didn't see anything posted by you lately to comment on. > I hope I've not said anything to offend you? Ha,ha,ha...no my friend. It is not often that I find a most engaging formadable and friendly nemesis (oxymoron, but you'll get the meaning). I had promise myself to minimize my presence on the web and focus on my work, but alas, a few engaging exchange of thought between Yaana and yourself has dissuade me of my objective. I am sure to reach a climax once I am satisfied and exhausted in examining our thoughts and arriving at a synthesis (Thesis vs. Anti-Thesis results in Synthesis) :-). > I believe that a wide range of views and opinions are healthy and should be > encouraged. Otherwise, we risk losing their unique input and insights. Afterall, > is it not the differences that make us strong? Yes...I thought of this same subject last night. Yaana's view and your view shows quite a sharp distinction in how we conceive concepts and view of the world. No doubt, that there is an implication of truism in what we say. But I think we are lost in words that probably arrive at the same destination if we curbed our verbage. :-) > >Science, by default, is reductionism followed blindly. > > I believe it is important to define the difference between a few things here. > > First, there is science. In it's purest form, science is based on hypothesises > and theories, which are then tested through a variety of experiments. The > results of those experiments, if validated after peer-review, then guide the > direction of future research. Excellent. Invariably, determining the difference in things is a prerequisite to higher conscious awareness and assimilation. But I will use my example of "reductionism" to what you have suggested. By reductionism I ment the dissection of the subject in question and its adherence to that conviction without examining the whole aspect of the subject again. When you propose to establish the "difference" you initiated the process of dissection. Science takes the general and dissects it to the smallest understandable package. Followed down, it is induction. Sometimes we remain there without looking back at the forest, so to speak. Others use those principles, wittingly or unwittingly, to deny the existence of "natural" psi-ability, a poit Yaana made regarding psychologist approach to examining human nature as animal base. In essence, I understand that she is stating that the study of animal nature, doesn't easily transfer to human. Taking animal studies and applying it to humans is what I call reductionism. Blind belief in their animal theory, influences human into animalistic behavior. Granted, there are occasionally some "animal" similarities, but they ought not to be dictated as human principles. Science in of itself, is not the cause. In that, you are absolutely right. But it is, as you once stated, the "spin" that we put on it. > The towing of a consensus view without critical thinking, I call "scientism", > and I am not sure if it is the same scientism most people are referring to, > but I believe it is. Scientism does not base it's conclusions on results of > independent scientific experiments, but on the prevailing point of view > within the mainstream scientific community. > > Taking scientism to it's extremes, we get groups like CSICOP. CSICOP > are an extremely unscientific and religious organisation, which seems to > be based on their own unique blend of scientism and reductionism. Okay. I have not read on this organization. But if it is religious in its manifestation, then we have strayed from the categorization of science and are into the arena of religion and philosophy. We must argue on their scientific foundation OR on their religious and philosophical underpining in order not to blur the issue. I suppose this exactly why you consider it to be un-scientific, those categories are not easily and convincingly mixed. > This is why I am supportive and sympathetic to remote-viewing > skeptics. Skeptics are often called many nasty names, but there > are honest skeptics out there too, who are following the tenets of > science: question the results, and perform experiments of their > own. I feel these kinds of efforts should be -encouraged-. Here is where we fall into subjectivist view Steve. "but there are honest skeptics ..." Honesty is not the issue. It is whether they have a CONVINCING argument. Moreover, their label in itself is a direct contradiction. Being a "skeptics," lacks doesn't the assumption of NEUTRAL view by which to examine psi. Most start off with the condition that Psi is bogus. Of course the opposite could be said of a supporter of Psi. Belief in excess makes for unrealistic POSITIVE results (refer to the Jessica Utts and Ray Hillman AIR report). One of the laws of psi is negative and positive influence on the subject. Not necessarily quoting the many studies and observations made in the past and present (I will leave it to your examination), performance of a psi experiment suffers in the presence of a skeptical mind. It is here whereby I draw the analogy of Quantum Theory behavior and Psi. Since I subscribe to the belief (philosophy) that psi and quantum mechanics have similar correspondence, I suggest the process is prominent ---. the examiner INFLUENCES the outcome of the experiment. This law is unequivocal. It is one of the first laws that should be identified and declared in the Psi thesis. > >Like constantly using statistical data to prove an esoteric point. > > Science has to rely on whatever data is available. Statistical and > mathematical-based experiments are useful for testing for the > existance of psi (figure out the "chance" level, perform tightly- > controlled experiments, collect the results). > > In the case of psi, in what other way can we objectively test for > the existence of the phenomenon, if we do not rely on statistical > methods? I'm welcome to hear alternative testing methods, > methods which can be independently and objectivity verified. Doing so Steve, reduces Psi from its ellusive subjective level to hard science objective. We are asking to resolve an UN-REALISTIC phenomena. It is the same argument I have been repeating in most of the posting I have made. Science is ment to test REALITY. What is reality made of? Gases, liquid, solids and plasma. Anything beyond that is an inference that must be tested by empirical observation or relegated to philosophy, i.e. belief system. I once stated that when a psychic individual exceeds the credibility threshold of an observing or skeptical person, these individuals will either not SEE what is in front of their face or flatly deny or distort it. It is like an Indian Shaman performing the lifting of a mountain ... just watch how many enginneers or scientist take out their measuring tools to find out how the Indian is doing it, when in fact he is just DOING IT! They don't SEE the psi, they investigate why it is contrary to all physical laws. So, another law that should be included in any Psi thesis is that exemplification of a power beyond the "reality" of a contemporary mentality should remain in the secrecy of the of the psi-individual until its timely and proper introduction into social milieu. Jesus was about the only divine person that got away with it, since he realized he was immortal and would live in the hearts of man no matter how much he was persecuted or crucified. ;-) > >Somehow, the agenda switches to using science to validate > >one's conviction to others, which up to now has been futile > >to the progress of the nature of Psi. > > Whenever the agenda becomes to proving the existence of > something, or disproving it, objectivity is lost. Science demands > that no assumptions are made - and that if any are made, > such as in making theories - that the purpose is to allow an > experiment to proced, and that an objective test is created > to determine if the theory is correct or false, BEFORE it > becomes generally accepted. The test should be performed > by objective and impartial individuals. If not such people > exist, then it should be performed by a mixture of > supporters and skeptics who can try and hash out a > middle-ground they can both work within. You missed my point here Steve. If scientific investigation in to Psi phenomenon has proven insignificant, or conflicting, we have the wrong method of stating. It was Yaana suggestion that where a false problem exist and continue multiplying itself, it means that we are mis-identifying the problem. I added that it could also be the right CONTENT in the WRONG CATEGORY. An "objective" and mathematical science should have, by now, identified the Un-reality, ergo, reality of Psi and its nature, not withstanding Time. > >Statistician can't even agree on their figure, muchless the > >dumbfounded, unschooled bystanders that are struck with a > >tower of formulas to INTERPRET. That's reductionism at > >its worst. > > I would call it scientific debate. Formulas and statistics can > be used correctly or incorrectly. Those who argue about > the accuracy of a statistical formula, may feel that the > statistical method is misleading or deceptive, or insufficient > in some way. We need to hear their views, so we can analyse > their criticisms and see if they have merit. Statistics does not and should not inject "feel" into the equation. Again, refer to the AIR report. Agenda? most likely. > Debate and peer-review are an essential part of the scientific > process. This is a fact that followers of scientism often seem > to forget. Scientists are not infalliable. Scientists disagree > all the time. It's because we all view things differently. Even > if we are using the same processes, we may have different > experiences and expertise which causes us to analyse and > view the results in different ways. As wide a range of > opinions as possible should be saught, IMO. Idealistic and agreeable statement. > Many of the comments you may are true of scientism, but not of science > itself. Science does not take anything on faith; rather, scientific > objectivity and experimentation dictates that we are guided by the data, > always on the look-out for possible flaws or errors that may mean our > data is incorrect. I couldn't have implied otherwise. I agree. electrix :-) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/69)
09:34:24
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Paul H. Smith wrote: > Steve-- > > How'd you get so smart, anyway? That's the same question I asked myself....I guess Mother Nature don't make teenagers like it used to! I AM waiting for an answer.... :-) electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/70)
09:34:39
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Re: [stargate] RV Science I must concur with Gene K's statement on CRV. In the form of remote viewing I learned from USSR training techniques in early 60's there was no aspect of initiating other than light alpha brainwave levels. In our own work in the Psi Squad,(est. 1971 for those of you who are not familiar with us) almost 100% of the work is done in the wide awake, alert, state as well. The level of detachment from immediate surroundings (noises, other people, etc) is more a level of concentration, than a deliberate brainwave level or altered state reflex. We have only trained one police officer in all that time who preferred the 'lie down and go into a deep level - work with a monitor' methodology. It is apparent that there are more than one or two ways to skin a cat, and remote viewing methods do not conform to any one standard. The most useful standard is: 'does the method work?' 'are consistent results gained?' 'what is the accuracy level?' Bevy PS: Have you seen a copy of Patrick Marsolek's Article in the recent issue Atlantis Rising? Goes along with the discussion which was taking place on our old VWR and PSI Lists with PJ. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/71)
09:34:49
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> It is apparent that there are more than one or two ways to skin a cat, and > remote viewing methods do not conform to any one standard. The most useful > standard is: 'does the method work?' 'are consistent results gained?' 'what > is the accuracy level?' > Yes...I concur. In an isolated personal experiment I did with individuals before my exposure to "proper" RV method and protocol, I got some very impressive results. When I read Joe McMoneagle "Mind Trek," I realized I was using the same method that Robert Monroe was using on Joe to Remote View some targets. In essence, there are ?th way to skin the cat! electrix P.S. the Psi Squad....hmmmm...why does this remind me of the Mod Squad. Psi Squad... :-) Now, *there* is a prime time T.V. screenplay! stargate : Message: [stargate]
Two Lists in One
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/72)
09:35:08
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Dear All, I just wanted to point one thing one now, in order to avoid confusion later. I'm pretty sure most of you have either been told this already or have probably guess this, but I figured this should be said anyway. This list is a hybrid of the Psi List and the Viewer List that are/used to be run by PJ. Until this list has a bigger subscriber base behind it, I feel it is important to have a joint list like this. Both lists and the topics that are part of them deserve a chance at life, as I'm sure we'd all agree. A lot of people were upset when they heard their favourite lists were closing, so I immediately decided to open up this Star Gate list and try to plug a gap before PJ pulled the plug and the conversation was all sucked into a black hole.. There was only two choices. We either have two lists, in which case there is the danger of dividing subscribers over the two lists, and since the subscriber level is only mediumish anyway, that might lead to a problem of not enough members in each list, and so not enough posts. Merge the two, or rather keep them as one (as they are here), and we don't have that problem. Of course, I'm not intending to keep things this way forever. Once this list has reached a large enough memberbase, I am intending to create a second list, which we'll call the New Viewer List for now :) It will be moderated, and topics/discussion will be kept along similar lines as PJ's list, as I know her list format was very popular. Once the New Viewer List is created, this Star Gate list can become the equivalent of the old rv/psi list. Since the CRV topics will most likely migrate to the new Viewer List, that leaves the other psi topics to be discussed in this list, which will remain unmoderated. In the meantime, both Psi List and Viewer List topics are "on topic" for this list. This includes serious discussion of psi as well as more relaxed and casual discussion about psi, which can include less structured methods. I hope people see the logic behind the way I'm trying to organise this. (You can only start to think about splitting something up when it starts to get big..) So in the meantime, we'll carry on as we have been up until now. In perhaps a week, we'll have two lists, and hopefully it will minimise the effect of PJ's lists closing when that eventually happens. People are welcome to cross-post or cross-reply messages (i.e. make replies to Viewer List posts on -this- list, or make a post to -both- the Viewer/Psi List and this this list, in the meantime.) I hope no one minds this "hybrid" list in the meantime, and can understand my reasons for deciding to transfer things over this way. As the saying goes, "in unity, there is strength." I figured that one list was better than two for now. Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/73)
09:35:20
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Electrix-- At 06:03 PM 6/26/98 -0700, you wrote: >Here is where we fall into subjectivist view Steve. "but there are honest skeptics >..." Honesty is not the issue. It is whether they have a CONVINCING argument. >Moreover, their label in itself is a direct contradiction. Being a "skeptics," lacks >doesn't the assumption of NEUTRAL view by which to examine psi. Actually, people often misunderstand what the word "skeptic" really implies--the fault, as I've said in other venues ;-) of rabidly extremist skeptics as typified by CSICOP. A true "skeptic" is a person who holds judgement of some reported phenomenon or truth-claim in abeyance until what has been claimed has been fairly and reasonably demonstrated. A true skeptic is always prepared to change his/her belief if evidence justifies such a change. I hope ALL of us maintain a certain healthy skepticism in our lives, since one thing we should all know by now is that things are often not as they appear. This especially holds true in the realm of the paranormal. It can often be very difficult to separate legitimate events or effects from the fraudulent or just simply misinterpreted. Most start off with >the condition that Psi is bogus. Of course the opposite could be said of a supporter >of Psi. Belief in excess makes for unrealistic POSITIVE results (refer to the Jessica >Utts and Ray Hillman AIR report). I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here--was it that Utt's evaluation was too optimistic? If so, I would certainly argue with you, since her assessment was very rigorously done. Or did you mean that Hyman's response was egregiously and unsupportably negative? In that case, I would agree with you quite strongly. >One of the laws of psi is negative and positive influence on the subject. Ummm, I'm not sure this is actually a LAW of psi. It has been suggested by some researchers to account for why in some settings results fall off when the experimenters or observers are skeptics. But this effect doesn't always necessarily occur. Many times in the SRI RV experiments they had impressive successes even with quite virulent skeptics present, and in fact even with virulent skeptics participating. I myself have been party to demonstration sessions that were notably successful even though the persons for whom they were done were heavily into doubt and denial. Over the years not a few of them were converted. The most recent successes have occurred on the UT skeptics RV site that I've been touting. Even though skeptics are running the site, we have a had a number of quite good sessions contributed (amongst an admittedly high number of failures), and with y'all's support I expect even more. >process is prominent ---. the examiner INFLUENCES the outcome of the experiment. This >law is unequivocal. It is one of the first laws that should be identified and declared >in the Psi thesis. I would acknowledge that the experimenter (monitor, tasker) can indeed in many cases intentionally or inadvertently influence the outcome. But I would argue that this is not unequivocal. Again appealing to my own personal experience, I have been involved in a number of sessions where monitor intention, whether conscious or unconscious, did NOT effect the outcome of the session. Sometime the viewer just does what he/she needs to do, and leaves all the interference behind. >Doing so Steve, reduces Psi from its ellusive subjective level to hard science >objective. We are asking to resolve an UN-REALISTIC phenomena. Actually, not so. The CAUSE may be "un-realistic" (whatever that really means), but the phenomenon itself is a real manifestation here in the real world. Otherwise, there wouldn't be anything for us to notice, nor to even consider testing. The EFFECTS of psi are immenently testable. But I have my doubts that we'll ever establish a cause-and-effect linkage using any sort of physical measuring device or testing methodology. Okay, hope I haven't overstayed my welcome... Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: [stargate]
Getting the Balance Right
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/74)
09:35:31
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Dear Steve and List : Here is a bit of feedback from the USA re : "balance".... Since I am isolated from RV teachers, I would like to be able to conduct experiments with those who are open to working with me. I am reluctant, of course, due to possible failures (and ego thereof ?!) but....it is time to test my own "skeptic hat" (and I wear a good one some days) and I would be willing to post the messes as well as the successes. I appreciate the feedback if I fail, and I appreciate the feedback if it works. I am looking for practice... even with those who have the "skeptic hat". I have no credentials of any kind, so those looking for military experience or scholastic degrees must pass me by. I am completely untrained by anyone and have been 'on my own' for a few years. The only medium I have worked in is via computer. I know, this sounds odd!!!! Is there a way we all could agree to set such a thing up? Or are there 'rules' we must follow? I hope this is not creating a new problem for our list to think about .... I realize this is bold, but there are times in life when one must make such leaps.... My best to all, Laura stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/75)
09:35:45
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Paul H. Smith wrote: > not a few of them were converted. The most recent successes have occurred > on the UT skeptics RV site that I've been touting. Even though skeptics > are running the site, we have a had a number of quite good sessions > contributed (amongst an admittedly high number of failures), and with > y'all's support I expect even more. Hi Paul & all, This is precisely what I like about the UT site. I think that the failures make the hits stand out even more. RV sorely needs some "down to earth" publicity/demonstrations. Sensationalism has put things in a bad light and there seems to be no one wanting/willing/able to fix it. To add to the confusion are the various flavors of RV and the "revelations" that there were/are apparently more than one people/military groups/projects who were not aware of each other going back many years. In the long run, I think that "RV" will become more and more known as a version of psi and not stand out so much. Its too much of a buzz word right now. But then that brings up other questions for me. Why have not the other types of psi ever caught on with the general public? Been around a lot longer.....astral projection .....OBE....psychometry.....channeling....etc. One reason may be that none of the others provide any consistency or high level of success. The same may be true of RV once the wild claims of 100% accuracy are disproved. And again I would like to see here or anywhere, samples from those new or old to the ability...and who make the high hit, high data resolution claims to step foreward into this "parlor" or UT or anywhere and strut their stuff. Oh yeah....dont forget your t-shirts.... :) http://www.remoteviewers.com/clothes.htm Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/77)
09:36:13
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> About half true.....In fact when a viewer is performing Coordinate Remote > Viewing they are wide awake, vibrant and alert sitting at a table (not lying > in a bed) in well lit room with only a monitor offering guidance and they > progress through the several phases of activities which "lock" them on to the > target signal ...snip Hi Gene, Good to see you join the discussion. I have been a student for just under a year, not near the experience you have. I did not mean to imply that RV was just altered state work. All of the work we have produced (HRVG) to this point has been with awake state protocols. Our advanced class is just beginning to learn altered state protocols which come more than an hour into the session doing awake state data collection, if good target contact as been demonstrated. In the last year our goal has been to improve target contact, consistency and clarity of data. It is just now we have begun to train in more advanced techniques. It appears that the work horse data collection comes with the waking state data collection, but the experiential "carrot" for the viewer comes in the altered state. The discipline is still to bring back congruent data and not get caught up in the experience and that is where a monitor is very important. We are just now beginning training for monitored sessions to this point we have worked independently mastering the protocols we have learned to date. The few monitored sessions we have done have brought impressive results and we are really looking forward to this stage of our training. It is great to see experienced viewers join the discussion group, now we students can really learn :) Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/78)
09:36:29
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Rich Krankoski wrote: > RV sorely needs some "down to earth" > publicity/demonstrations. Sensationalism has put things in a bad light and > there seems to be no one wanting/willing/able to fix it. This is more a matter of the public paying closer attention. Who can "fix it" except you? This is a 'victim' attitude; I don't mean to be abrasive but I think it's a cop out for folks to continue saying "oh I just can't figure it out" (especially in todays world of a thousand sensations a minute). Anyone who is giving you a sensational results prognosis is giving you .... well I'll be polite and say the guys who are being honest give you a lower percentage of success (and that's only if you're really good). > To add to the confusion are the ..... "revelations" that there were/are apparently more than one people/military > groups/projects who were not aware of each other going back many years. What? Tell me more....I haven't heard anything about this. > In the long run, I think that "RV" will become more and more known as a > version of psi and not stand out so much. I think that RV WILL continue to stand out because it is presented as not requiring an altered trance type of psi connection... in that respect it seems more rational and on the surface more "respectable" to those with a "I don't want to venture tooooo far out there" mindset. This of course is only an illusion; as anyone who has listened to the stories told by the RVers from the Ft.Mead group or read any of the books that surround the development of RV within the army know.... you could travel anywhere at a moments notice: on target or not; most often on target, but one has to be flexible and expect the unexpected. It does require consistent practice just as so many other disciplines do. And to tell the truth this is what I think will be the cutting point -- there will be those who will persist...and those who don't. And of course, as so many of the scientists and psychologists have pointed out, those who consciously are willing to go there but whose subconscious fears block the way. > Its too much of a buzz word right now. But then that brings up > other questions for me. Why have not the other types of psi ever caught > on with the general public? Been around a lot longer.....astral projection > .....OBE....psychometry.....channeling....etc. Well,,,,,,where have you been hiding? I'm 52 years old and to my knowledge these things have been around and are accepted within their acknowledged limits....although, i've known only one really good psychometrist... don't care for the hype surrounding channeling now, of course that's because I learned about the phenomena through Jane Roberts and Seth in the '70s and compared to the work that was done there(in conjunction I might add with physicists who explored the work with Jane and Rob) most of what comes out now seems really superficial. OBE? Lots of folks are still exploring this one...from my limited perspective there is something to this, but it's not so clear cut as folks would like it to be. We'd like to think we take a little trip across town and look at what our friend or competitor is doing and come back with clear cut valid down to earth information.... But wait a minute ... i ended up talking to aunt Sally who's been dead for fifteen years...or, it wasn't EXACTLY as I saw it... some of the data was correct ... some wasn't... hmmmmmmm sound a little like RV? > One reason may be that none of the others provide any consistency or > high level of success. The same may be true of RV once the wild claims of 100% > accuracy are disproved. And again I would like to see here or anywhere, > samples from those new or old to the ability...and who make the high hit, high > data resolution > claims to step foreward into this "parlor" or UT or anywhere and strut > their stuff. Who EVER made this claim???????? This is the attitude that baffles me the most. If we are waiting for someone to prove high hit rates, and not willing to take say even a 30% rate of success, which is an improvement over our normal state of consciousness, what is this game about? I've spent a lifetime joyfully developing one inch at a time and it is a real disappointment to see this attitude appear on the scene. I truly don't understand why anyone would take the path of least resistance when it applies to their own psychic development. In all due respect, all of the folks from the Ft.Mead group on PJ's list (which are all I've heard from) and Hal Puthoff (whom I met briefly) are all humble fellows with their heads on their shoulders and a sense of one step at a time. There is no other way to deal with one's interior landscape which is what it's all about. Whether it's RV, OBE, meditation, psychometry, scrying, etc. it's all about knowing yourself enough to trust that you can move outside of the normal boundaries of self and make it home again. Shelia stargate : Message: [stargate]
Congratulations Steve
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/79)
09:36:40
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Congratulations Steve, On your growing discussion list ; ) What was that about only a couple of posts a week...LOL Great to see so many quality discussions, keep up the good work. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/80)
09:36:51
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Re: [stargate] Science vs. Scientism At 12:52 AM 6/27/98 -0400, you wrote: >This is precisely what I like about the UT site. Gosh, Rich--where were you when I was getting hammered on PJ's list for cozying up to the nasty ol' skeptics?!? ;-) >"revelations" that there were/are apparently more than one people/military >groups/projects who were not aware of each other going back many years. I'm not sure I've been convinced of this yet, but I'm willing to keep an open mind! >again I would like to see here or anywhere, samples from those new or >old to the ability...and who make the high hit, high data resolution >claims to step foreward into this "parlor" or UT or anywhere and strut >their stuff. Rich, you're my hero! I've been hoping for the same thing--though I'm proud of some of the "amateurs" that have been posting already. >Oh yeah....dont forget your t-shirts.... :) Neat idea! Wish I'd thought of it first. Then I could open a haberdashery and forget about teaching this stuff. Save a lot of headaches... ;-) Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/81)
09:37:07
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Re: [stargate] Science vs. Scientism Hi Paul, Rich, List :) >>This is precisely what I like about the UT site. >Gosh, Rich--where were you when I was getting hammered on PJ's list for >cozying up to the nasty ol' skeptics?!? ;-) I think me and Rich were being the "nasty, vicious mean-spirited skeptics" that we secretly are, and that manifested itself by us leaving you to fight the skeptic's corner all on your own.. ;-) Seriously, I just didn't feel comfortable with the idea of coming across as a skeptic on PJ's list. Period. I kept playing with the idea, though.. At least you guys can relax easy now knowing that the List Owner here is sympathetic to skeptics. I'm not going to rip anyone to shreds for thinking critically or asking difficult questions here :) >>again I would like to see here or anywhere, samples from those new or >>old to the ability...and who make the high hit, high data resolution >>claims to step foreward into this "parlor" or UT or anywhere and strut >>their stuff. >Rich, you're my hero! I've been hoping for the same thing--though I'm >proud of some of the "amateurs" that have been posting already. I've been crying out for sites like the UT skeptic site for ages. Okay, so perhaps they're not doing a -perfect- job handling the experiments, (if all the criticisms are valid, which I wouldn't know, because I haven't been trained in remote-viewing.. hint ;), but could -anyone- do a perfect job of running a public experiment like that? I don't think they're doing that badly. >>Oh yeah....dont forget your t-shirts.... :) >Neat idea! Wish I'd thought of it first. Then I could open a haberdashery >and forget about teaching this stuff. Save a lot of headaches... ;-) Hey, there's a lot more opportunities to make money out there, Paul! For example, asking a $20 subscription fee to subscribe to a remote- viewing e-mail list.. ;-) (Relax guys, I'm joking!! :) Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/82)
09:37:27
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Rich Krankoski wrote: >This is precisely what I like about the UT site. I think that the >failures make the hits stand out even more. RV sorely needs >some "down to earth" publicity/demonstrations. > >Sensationalism has put things in a bad light and there seems to >be no one wanting/willing/able to fix it. Here, here! Rich, I agree completely. If psi is for real, as I believe it likely is, there is nothing to lose through public demonstrations, and so much to gain. By laying down some guidelines on how psi will be tested for, and then performing these experiments, the public can participate in experiments to test for psi. Assuming that those without any psi ability will score chance results, and those with psi abilities (which many feel, is everyone), will perform above chance. Statistically, you'd expect the overall result to be "above chance" if psi exists, even if we've got a lot of 'bad psychics' doing the experiments who score at chance level. (I'm not saying what I'm meaning to say in the way I'm meaning to say it, but I hope what I'm trying to say is clear :) It is all nice and well for scientists to perform lab experiments to test for psi and gauge it's accuracy, but there is a very good reason why experiments are not performed at one lab only, and is repeated at other labs. It's because the other labs won't take the first lab's conclusions on faith. They want to see replication - being able to repeat the experiment and come out with the same results. Since 95% of the lab's data isn't for the public's eyes, we're not in a good situation to be able to judge if their conclusions are accurate, or if the experiments were performed properly. Many people are crying out to see everything the lab has, or a public demonstration that repeats the experiments in a public setting such as a website. The only way we can do that, is either for the labs to release their full data, for us to join that lab (unlikely) and see it for ourselves, or.. to repeat their experiments in a public setting. That's why I like sites such as the UT skeptics site - they are attempting to test for psi, and publishing everything openly. I wish labs could do that, but I realise it's probably not practical for them to do so. So the UT site and things like it are the next best thing IMO. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/83)
09:38:26
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Well, Gene! I was about to e-mail you. Glad you found your way to Steve's e-mail group. Don't know how a red-blooded Irish lad like yourself can manage to participate in a group hosted out of the homeland of the English oppressor, but I know Steve to be a tolerant sort, so I'm sure he'll manage to put up with the likes o' ya' . Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jeffery's remote influencing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/84)
09:38:52
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In a message dated 98-06-26 21:39:15 EDT, you write: << So yes this is happening in the now, being a good viewer enables you to sense when and where remote influencing is going on to a higher degree than normal. This other group was well organized and well financed who knows what their full time mission goals might be. >> PUHHLLLEEEEZZZ!...I almost left PJ Gaenir's site because of this same sort of drivel. I find it really amazing that the military remote viewing team was organized specifically to test whether remote influencing were possible. With a staff of sometimes as many as a dozen viewers, millions of dollars worth of the taxpayers dollars and literally thousands of sessions, we were never REPEAT NEVER NIE, NADA..NICHTS etc...ever able to replicate any incident of remote influencing and we even brought in some of the most famous folks in the psychic business to see if they could do...same results....so with millions of dollars, the best facilities, thousands or hours of practice all of which was carefully monitored and recorded...not won bloodyu nose, not one headache...not one pencil raised and stuck into the wall and not won desk ever got levatated...As to other "groups" being out there (where??????) who were using RV for some deep dark dastardly plot...well my friends...they never bothered us as we were as about as deep, dark and dastardly as you can get...we never "saw them" - "ran into them".."challenged them" or in anyway encountered them...We wanted very much to use RV for influencing...the idea being that we could influence political thought in an adversary or reset guidance systems in missles...SORRY...none of that ever occurred nor could be ever EVER EVER even "influence" ourselves, lotteries (I say that now before someone comes on line and says they are winning the lottery with RV...another load of manure...) or anything else of importance...hell we could not even keep flowers growing....so before anyone buys into this fecal matter without an opposing (and knowledgeable point of view)...let me say that this line of topics will only enrage me further and make more more irritable in the future...I am not called Ghengis Gene by my students for nothing... Slainte...(thats Irish for Cheers...and yes being born in Ireland...a bit o heavan on Earth is probably why I have this type of temper...sorry....) Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/85)
09:39:06
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<< It is great to see experienced viewers join the discussion group, now we students can really learn :) Aloha Yaana >> Aloha Yaana... You know, I was in Hawaii (Oahu) last month for three days on business and I should add that I come to Hawaii about three times a year...usually for a similarly short period of time...next time I plan a trip, and if you are on Oahu, I will make it a point to meet with you and any of you students or team for a little discussion session or even a remote viewing session where I will act a monitor..(being one of the best monitors in the business mind you...hahaha)....Yaana was not enough to find you in the phonebook (I did tryu)...but next time I will let you know in advance..I always stay at the Reef in Waikikki...so no matter what...if you get the word late .. just call the Reef and we can work up something from there... Slainte...(Irish version of Aloha...) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/86)
09:39:27
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> > Its too much of a buzz word right now. But then that brings up > > other questions for me. Why have not the other types of psi ever caught > > on with the general public? Been around a lot longer.....astral projection > > .....OBE....psychometry.....channeling....etc. > > Well,,,,,,where have you been hiding? I'm 52 years old and to my > knowledge these > things have been around and are accepted within their acknowledged > limits....although, i've known only one really good psychometrist... > don't care for the hype surrounding channeling now, of course that's > because I learned about the phenomena through Jane Roberts and Seth in > the '70s and compared to the work that was done there(in conjunction I > might add with physicists who explored the work with Jane and Rob) most > of what comes out now seems really superficial. Ditto! Absence of knowledge does not reality make. Among all that New Age dribble, there are some "legitimate" stuff going on out there folks! > > One reason may be that none of the others provide any consistency or > > high level of success. The same may be true of RV once the wild claims of 100% > > accuracy are disproved. And again I would like to see here or anywhere, > > samples from those new or old to the ability...and who make the high hit, high > > data resolution > > claims to step foreward into this "parlor" or UT or anywhere and strut > > their stuff. > I truly don't > understand why anyone would take the path of least resistance when it > applies to > their own psychic development. Boy, does this baffle me also! Why would anyone want to prove to themselves that their inherent psychic ability doesn't exist through observation of others. That boggles my mind. Funny thing is, psychic abilities are so strong that it can't help "popping out" once in awhile in our daily activities. Instead people prefer to deny it, ignore it, bash it or take it for granted. Really weird! > Hal Puthoff (whom I met briefly) are all humble fellows with their heads on > their shoulders and a sense of one step at a time. Surely a genius in our mist.... > There is no other way > to deal with one's interior landscape which is what it's all about. > Whether it's RV, OBE, meditation, psychometry, scrying, etc. it's all > about knowing yourself enough to trust that you can move outside of the > normal boundaries of self and make it home again. Wow...a most insightful post, Sheila...the spirit is with you! electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/87)
09:39:38
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Hello Gene! Thanks for clearing up the issue about remote influencing. I had never heard anything like Jeffrey was posting, that is why I posted it onto Steve's list for comments. AquaSerene and I have a friend, Bob, who "claims" he does remote viewing. But in our opinion Bob is a little "off in the head" --but generally a likeable guy. He claims that when he was remote viewing a nuclear reactor that his physical legs got burned (like a sunburn) and that he was sick for several days. He calls it light radiation sickness. We just stare at Bob when he talks like this. He claims he has witnesses although we have yet to meet one. I don't believe him. I don't think AquaSerene does either but I can't speak for her. He picks targets that we can't verify so we have no idea about the accuracy of his "remote viewing". I think he just imagines it all. Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Science
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/88)
09:39:58
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> You know, I was in Hawaii (Oahu) last month for three days on business and I > should add that I come to Hawaii about three times a year...usually for a > similarly short period of time...next time I plan a trip, and if you are on > Oahu, I will make it a point to meet with you and any of you students or team > for a little discussion session or even a remote viewing session where I will > act a monitor..(being one of the best monitors in the business mind > you...hahaha)....Yaana was not enough to find you in the phonebook (I did > tryu)...but next time I will let you know in advance..I always stay at the > Reef in Waikikki...so no matter what...if you get the word late .. just call > the Reef and we can work up something from there... > Slainte...(Irish version of Aloha...) Outragious, I am looking forward to it, Given how short your time is, I guess I will have to tell the group.... LOL rather than be selfish and have you monitor just me in a session, and knowing our students and instructor they would all love to discuss RV with you and I would never hear the end of it. I guess this is not our secret any more :) I will email you my phone number so you can let me know the dates of your next trip, I do live on Oahu, only about 10 minutes from Waikiki. Aloha Nui Loa (Aloha very much :) Yaana stargate : Message: [stargate]
RV may make you live longer
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/89)
09:40:11
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[stargate] RV may make you live longer Taken in snips from the current issue of the Spectator:- Many doctors and psychologists believe that by playing...... mind stretching games such as bridge, crossword puzzles, draughts or scrabble, you maximise your chances of a long and healthy life, and, perhaps more importantly, one remains at a high, even increasing level of mental activity.... Professor Arnold Scheibel, former head of the Brain Research Institute at the University of California says" Anything that is intellectually challenging can probably serve as a kind of stimulus for dendritic growth, which means it adds to the computation reserves in your brain. Do puzzles, try a musical instrument, try the arts, tournament bridge or chess; and remember, researchers agree it is never too late. All of life should be a learning experience, because we are challenging our brain and therefore building brain circuitry. Literally, this is the way the brain operates." Quote ends. Well, RV is certainly challenging and a consistant learning experience. And now its even good for you Now, if I could only get my 50 year old body to feel like my 35 year young mind, sigh. Lovely to see so many of my friends here. In Friendship and Light. MaryD stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Two Lists in One
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/90)
09:40:25
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hello steve if you ask me i think it would be better if this list wont split cuz i think rv people intrested in psi and psi people intrested in rv. and wich are both the same thing... Eyal stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/91)
09:40:38
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> He picks targets that we can't verify There's your answer: _HE_ picks his own targets? What's the point of the RV? My sister ran into a whole load of folks out in NM who had E.D. tapes months before they ever came out or better yet had been RVing with ED...one woman who claimed her son left the army because they had him RVing - after they did genetic testing on him cause his mama's a "psychic".... (i.e., she channels aliens)... oh the stories are everywhere and getting weirder every day... just listen to your gut: if it sounds too good to be true (i.e., 100% hit rate) it is. If it's too flakey for you, don't override your good judgment just because the words Remote Viewing are attached. Shelia stargate : Message: [stargate]
Hi Laura
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/92)
09:40:56
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Hello Jane, Thanks for replying. I am hestitant, for concern we probably didn't follow 'protocol' correctly....but..here goes. I will try to summarize what a small group of totally untrained people did for a short period of time, about six months or so. Three people had read books and articles on Remote Viewing, and two others had no knowledge of it per se. A sixth person later joined us, having not read any literature beforehand, but later went on to read books and articles. All were very interested in the subject. Two of us had met in real life, the rest had never seen one another face to face. After we stopped, two more people met in real life. Three of the group continue to have contact with one another, with the rest of the group occassionally communicating through emails. The group used computer "chat" as a way to meet. All arrangements were at a specific time and day of the week, usually Friday nights worked the best. Since all were total amateurs, we attempted several different experiments. No one knew who would be accurate Viewers nor Monitors when we first began, so it was agreed that each person would attempt each. The people who had read literature suggested techniques from J. McMoneagle's book _Mind Trek_ to begin with. We later used other information from the literature. some of it helpful, some of it not. One person was selected as a person who had to be in charge of the target...thus they had to stand down or sit out as Viewer or Monitor. Five were left. Of the five, one was a sort of recorder of all events that happened, thus also not a Viewer or Monitor per se. We named these roles as we saw fit and agreed among the 6 of us. We had some problems with how to communicate with the person in charge of the target...someone had to be told what it was, so this recorder person was allowed to learn it to begin with. Primitive, but we had to start somewhere. Each of the four people left divided into two sets of pairs, a Viewer and Monitor, all who were blind and had no idea what the target was. Strict rule was no communications between the two pairs and we all created private chat rooms in order to stay away from one another. We 'recorded' the chats so that we could keep track of conversations...although sometimes it appeared as if the screen was blank with no talk at all. We allowed ourselves 15 minutes to work. The recorder person would keep track o fthe time and tell the person in charge of the target to be silent....sometimes those two people paired up, other times we separated them as well. When the time was up, the entire group would rejoin and report the results, whether successful or failures. We would attempt to conduct three or four targets in an entire night at first, but sometimes we were unable to do that. Some people reported in well as Viewers, others seemed to gravitate to Monitor equally well. We varied the difficulty of the targets. At first, to give each other practice we would begin with several objects. This became confusing immediately, so the we learned it had to be one target only. Most of these were simple however, such as favorite little objects or knick knacks in our homes. The best successes worked when we all knew that whatever the target was, was placed on top of a person's computer monitor or near the keyboard. We did it this way because we were working through the electronic medium. Had we continued, we were planning to have the person in charge of the target "hide" it away from their home or computer to make it more difficult. We did attempt one session with photographs from a magazine (tucked inside a white envelope) which was reported as a general failure all around. There were some solid failures (with a lot of laughs from all) and some very good successes. I can't break it down in exact percentages. Some nights were excellent, others were just a bust. For the short period of time that we ran this project, it certainly created good friendships if nothing else. One member insisted having no ability to RV at all. The same member had a couple accurate hits so this helped esteem. One member had no hits at all. One member came close to being able to describe the targets a number of times but could not name it exactly. At least three of the group felt more comfortable as Monitor than as Viewer. Each member that RVed reported a "wandering" problem...meaning that often he or she would see something that was not the target itself, yet it often turned out to be something near or at the target person's computer. One night, a Viewer ended up in in the back yard of a fellow member and although accurate in the description of the back yard, we had to call it a bust since it was NOT the back yard that was supposed to be targeted. Our locations by the way were from different states...we had midwesterners, easterners and southerners participating, with no one from the west or southwest of the country. (Didn't know anyone from those areas at the time...) We varied these experiments ...one week the target person would email the group and say simply "I am ready with the target and will meet you at our regular time". Target person was NOT allowed to contact even the recorder or reporter person beforehand and we were scrupulous about not emailing or phone calling or attempts at cheating before the meeting. I know this is primitive, but untrained as we are/were, we still learned a tremendous amount about RV at least for ourselves. I hope this helps....I know we made tons of mistakes but it was understood by all of us that this was to learn together. Thankfully, no one fell into judgments such as "So and So is the best Viewer of all of us" or this sort of thing. We proved to ourselves adequately, that through electronic medium, it can be done if carefully set up. The main reason why we ended up disbanding was unfortunate problems in scheduling....two or three people could not come at a time, or someone had a child to carpool, etc which required delays. Our personal lives got in the way frequently enough so that we eventually were forced to call an unofficial "time out" to the entire idea. Best wishes, Laura stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Hi Laura
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/93)
09:41:11
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
> ...snip We proved to ourselves adequately, > that through electronic medium, it can be done if carefully set > up....snip > Best wishes, Laura Hi Laura,You are to be commended for gleening data from books and putting in so much effort. In the past year I have had many interesting experiences assiciated with chat, and I have had several friends who do what I would call tagging, with amazing results. Chat seems to act as an attention focusing tool, which is the essence of protocols from what ever the methods. Keep up the good work :) We here in Hawaii have the benifit of working on a weekly basis with an experienced veiwer, this is quite rare. The students have talked many times about not being able to imagine how difficult it would be to learn RV from a book or tape. Your persistance is to be remarkable, keep up the good work:) Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism/Psychometry
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/94)
09:41:22
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
Replying to recent Posts on the subject of Psychometry, it is hard to separate this skill out, as it involves remote viewing against a 'hard' target (and what else is a photograph? a person? a place?) beginning with the sense of touch (energy sensing) and then going much much further. It is part and parcel of what we are talking about; and although the designation may not be as old-fashioned and awkward as 'clairvoyant' it is in the same corral. The skill is merely one way of working a target, and can be a 'doorway' for beginners to learn to go further. One of our problems in this place in time is in replacing outdated terminology with more realistic words and definitions. My 1979 book on the subject of Psychometry was an attempt to outline and define just what the ..... 'psychometry' (mind measure) consists of and how it may be understood, learned and used. Florence Sternfels was the most well known of pure 'psychometrists' but she didn't understand how she did what she did. (and in her time was regarded as almost some type of 'freak' ) It has turned out to be a fairly popular book, although half the people who ordered it might not have known or understood just what the word meant. :) (and many still do not) I submit, however, that with these replacements and better definition/clarification of the mind skill/s we are discussing, it has become easier for scientists to grapple with the dimensions of what is involved in PSI. As well, it allows for the application of quantum physics and theory to provide some answers. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/95)
09:41:33
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
Hey you'all Let's not get so aboggled down with the UT site that we forget Dr. Dean Radin's at www.psiresearch/org/ even if he does think it's precognition when a hit is scored! Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Two Lists in One
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/96)
09:41:52
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
I would like to concur. I believe PJ's thought that the PSI List would 'open the floodgates' has proven to be untrue, at least so far; and that both Lists should be kept 'face to face' lol. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Two Lists in One
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/97)
09:42:05
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
Re: [stargate] Two Lists in One That MAKES 3 concurrences, Steve. electrix USPsiSquad@... wrote: > I would like to concur. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/98)
09:42:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
Re: [stargate] Science vs. Scientism Yes...a great site...althought I haven't been there in a while since his new book was release. Will have to check it out! electrix USPsiSquad@... wrote: > Hey you'all Let's not get so aboggled down with the UT site that we forget > Dr. Dean Radin's at www.psiresearch/org/ even if he does think it's > precognition when a hit is scored! > Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism/Psychometry
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/99)
09:42:30
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
Re: [stargate] Science vs. Scientism/Psychometry NOW we are talking the SAME language.... An organize body of work to test the Psi nature instead of scientifically reducing it to JUST figures and "hit" results (i.e. from the ethereal to the concrete) would seem more expanding and progressive. Certainly, in this world we all want to be CERTAIN, but let's face it...not everything that exist comes neatly packaged. The right tool for the proper project... is my chant.... Will have to check into this Psychometry.... It is indeed a philosophical conundrum of what constitutes low level and high level concepts as it is. Low-level concept as expounded by James D. Weinland in "How To Think Straight" "Low-level concepts have obvious referents in the physical world." Thus we find it easy to perceive with our senses the material aspect of existence and represent them closely enough to the label we give it. A chair becomes an easy referent to visualize and take a solid account of. But what happens when the concept is far remove from the senses? "Many high-level concepts are drawn from other abstractions and consequently have no close physical referent." In this realm of thinking we are swiming in ethereal mist, not dissimilar from the PSI. So what is a human to do? Weinland further explores "Since the primary function of concepts is to relate experience, however, value is attributed to high-level concepts even when they have no direct objective referents. Thus the concept of morality leads to the examination of many activities with consequent integration of information and improvement of judgement." This is the stuff Plato spoke about when he spoke of the Forms. A prestine "element" that is the template to existence with no referent to the physical. It is here where mental manipulation can occur. It is here where cult and mystic leaders tend to dominate the mental beliefs of unwitting devotees. Nothing to "physically" prove... since it can't be, yet it can be believed and EXPERIENCED, and therefore, just accepted as IS. There is a strong correlation with high-level concept and aspects of the PSI. So we should be ever vigilant and avoid the distortion of the metaphysical and the pre-tense that is dominantly a scientific endeavor. Better definition/clarification and the scientific analogy and application to Quantum Physics and Theory sounds legitimate to me. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Quantum and Psi
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/100)
09:42:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000001-000100---------
Dear Stargate members, I posted this to the psi-list but it may have not been seen by most of you. It concerns and experiment conducted by Joe McMoneagle and Ed May at SRI in 1987 to actually test whether RV takes place at the quantum level and obeys quantum physics rules. The experiment ran out of money before reaching a firm conclusion, but I think it is on heck of a first try and would love to see it repeated. Dear George, To cut to the chase: What Joe McMoneagle and coworkers attempted was the classical double slit experiment that has been done for 60 years or so. Electrons are emitted towards two narrow slits one at a time. If unobserved (or whatever interpretation you apply to an observer) by the experimentalist the electrons will seem to pass through both slits at the same time and produce an interferrence pattern when they hit a second target. This occurs even when only one electron goes at a time. However, if an observer checks WHICH slit the electron goes through, then the electrons act like individual particles and NO interference is seen, rather a shotgun pattern is seen. The recent study in Nature demonstrates as never before that this observer induced change is not the result of any classical change induced by the observer { Nature , Vol. 391, pp. 871-874),. It is a typical quantum effect, non-local and very psi- like in terms that it is induced only by the seeming knowledge of which slit the elctron goes through. Joes group repeated this experiment and tried observing the electrons using RV and using instruments to determine if psychic knowledge of which slit the electron goes through was tantamount to a real knowledge of which slit the elctron goes through e.g. does Rving the electron cause the change tfrom interference pattern to shotgun pattern on the second target. AS mentioned above. Joe felt that determining by RV which slit the electron went through was not difficult, and that this observation did induce changes in the behaviour of the electron. However, no conclusive results were obtained before the budget ran out, mainly becasue of instrumental difficulties. Now I ( as best I can) have used the Bohr interpretation of the double slit experiment just to get this point accross. But I do not wish to get hung up on which quantum model is used here. The point is that it should be possible to determine definitely whether psychic observation equates to (or does not equate to) real obseration on the quantum level. I think that would be an enormous advance to the field. You are correct that it will still depend on measurements and statistics, but it implies a mechanism of psi ( and probably of mind) that at least interfaces with known physics and is testable. Now even if successful, one would have to be careful to see if the changes are similar to those induced by real observation. PK effects in this interpretation would presumably be do psychic observation of rare quantum events in the mind of the psychic, thus collapsing the quantum probablility towards the favored ( visualized) event. Thus precipitating the unlikely or miraculous from the mundane. Careful comparisons would have to be done to determine if the psi effects were justifiably interpreted as observer-like effects or were do to some other mechanism of PK. That is all that Joe could tell me at this time. I have not been able to contact other members of his team. Sincerely, Bill Pendergrass

// END ARCHIVE BLOCK #1.

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Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block # 1. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 1. Last Message Number: 100
First Message Date: April 21, 1998. Last Message Date: June 30, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000001-000100.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)

Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #2. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 101. Last Message Number: 200
First Message Date: June 30, 1998. Last Message Date: July 8, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000101-000200.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



BEGIN ARCHIVE BLOCK #2.

stargate : Message: [stargate] 
Do personal religious beliefs affect rving?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/101)
11:21:05
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
A friend and I were sitting around talking about remote viewing and religious beliefs. We wondered if a viewer, who was an aethist, would react if they were given the target of the cruxification of Jesus? We also wondered how those with structured religious beliefs (like in the major Christian religions) deal with information from targets that do not support their belief systems? For example --- the big bang and orgin of mankind. If you came across Archangel Michael, what would you do? Would your belief hinder or help you view the target? When my friend found herself face to chest with Michael, she let him make the first move. She was curious as to what he would do. My friend did a slow merge with Michael (which was obviously fine with him). He was a massive presence. If my friend were Catholic or Mormon or whatever, would she had placed a lot of religious significance to the encounter? My friend basically thought it was very "cool" but did not wonder why he was appearing to her at the time. No, we were not drunk when we had this conversation. This idea came up over coffee. However, my friend chooses to remain anonymous at this time. Please address your comments to anonymous -- not to me. I am just the messenger. Looking forward to an active discussion. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Quantum and Psi
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/102)
11:21:30
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
> Dear George, To cut to the chase: What Joe McMoneagle and coworkers > attempted was the classical double slit experiment that has been done > for 60 years or so. Electrons are emitted towards two narrow slits one > at a time. If unobserved (or whatever interpretation you apply to an > observer) by the experimentalist the electrons will seem to pass > through both slits at the same time and produce an interferrence > pattern when they hit a second target. This occurs even when only one > electron goes at a time. However, if an observer checks WHICH slit the > electron goes through, then the electrons act like individual particles > and NO interference is seen, rather a shotgun pattern is seen. The > recent study in Nature demonstrates as never before that this observer > induced change is not the result of any classical change induced by the > observer { Nature , Vol. 391, pp. 871-874),. A quantum system may be deterministically driven to a preselected outcome by repeated resampling (checking to see if it is in the desired states). This is the Quantum Zeno Effect, if memory serves. > It is a typical quantum > effect, non-local and very psi- like in terms that it is induced only > by the seeming knowledge of which slit the elctron goes through. Joes > group repeated this experiment and tried observing the electrons using > RV and using instruments IMHO they did not do enough thinking about how to construct a meaningful psi experiment. Most experimenters use an obsolete Newtonian paradigm, in which they assume that the experimenter and apparatus are Newtonian, but the psi action is quantum! > to determine if psychic knowledge of which > slit the electron goes through was tantamount to a real knowledge of > which slit the elctron goes through e.g. does Rving the electron cause > the change tfrom interference pattern to shotgun pattern on the second > target. AS mentioned above. Joe felt that determining by RV which slit > the electron went through was not difficult, and that this observation > did induce changes in the behaviour of the electron. However, no > conclusive results were obtained before the budget ran out, mainly > becasue of instrumental difficulties. I wonder why they did this. There are many good psi studies which could be reinterpereted from a quantum standpoint. Now, some people believe that quantum effects occur only in very tiny measurements. Henry Stapp (physicist) argued this point 5 or 6 years ago. Henry thought that the macro Universe is classical and the micro Universe is quantum. --I think that's silly & said so at the time. Since that time I have come to believe that the Universe all works the same way, whatever that is, and that the evidence for quantum effects is really better than *the evidence for classical physics.* To get a good classical result, the experimenters throw out everything else. Ask them yourself! The weird stuff early in the experiment is written off to startup problems and "gremlins". They run the experiment until their values converge. This assumes that there is a true universal mean from which their estimates differ by some error factor. *This may not be true*. [Note that I have not said the above is categorically true of experimenters, but only that it is very frequently true.] The location of an electron is not a quantity we-don't-know-and-must- estimate-statistically; it is undefined. Now I ( as best I can) have > used the Bohr interpretation of the double slit experiment just to get > this point accross. But I do not wish to get hung up on which quantum > model is used here. The point is that it should be possible to > determine definitely whether psychic observation equates to (or does > not equate to) real obseration on the quantum level. Shiva's teeth, how can anyone possibly doubt this? If you can *observe* something and turn in verifiable results, you have observed it in the quantum sense no matter what mode of observation you used. I think that would > be an enormous advance to the field. You are correct that it will still > depend on measurements and statistics, but it implies a mechanism of > psi ( and probably of mind) that at least interfaces with known physics > and is testable. Now even if successful, one would have to be careful > to see if the changes are similar to those induced by real observation. You mean, observation by something that has a soul? Or maybe observation by a human being? I have always wondered why people don't think Schroedinger's cat would know whether it was dead or not. My cat would know. I'd like to see a decent proof that human consciousness can collapse the state vector, whereas cat or screwdriver consciousness cannot. > PK effects in this interpretation would presumably be do psychic > observation of rare quantum events in the mind of the psychic, thus > collapsing the quantum probablility towards the favored ( visualized) > event. Thus precipitating the unlikely or miraculous from the > mundane. Careful comparisons would have to be done to determine if the > psi effects were justifiably interpreted as observer-like effects or > were do to some other mechanism of PK. What method would you use to distinguish them? > That is all that Joe could > tell me at this time. I have not been able to contact other members of > his team. Sincerely, Bill Pendergrass Shelley Thomson stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jeffery's remote influencing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/103)
11:21:46
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
On Sat, 27 Jun 1998 Curran2106@... wrote: > PUHHLLLEEEEZZZ!...I almost left PJ Gaenir's site because of this same sort of > drivel. I find it really amazing that the military remote viewing team was > organized specifically to test whether remote influencing were possible. With > a staff of sometimes as many as a dozen viewers, millions of dollars worth of > the taxpayers dollars and literally thousands of sessions, we were never > REPEAT NEVER NIE, NADA..NICHTS etc...ever able to replicate any incident of > remote influencing and we even brought in some of the most famous folks in the > psychic business to see if they could do...same results....so with millions of > dollars, the best facilities, thousands or hours of practice all of which was > carefully monitored and recorded...not won bloodyu nose, not one > headache...not one pencil raised and stuck into the wall and not won desk ever > got levatated... These were the remote influencing results you wanted to get? Bloody nose, headache, pencil stuck into wall, and so forth? It doesn't surprise me that you failed. The anthropological literature and historical record are rich in accounts of remote influencing. The suggestion that none of this actually took place *because you and your cohorts could not do it* is absurd. Can yu stick pencils into walls by thought power in ordinary situations? If not, why should you popose this as a test for remote influencing? There is a large collection of good laboratory studies of psychokinesis. These are studies of remote influencing. Do you have a problem with them? > We wanted very much to use RV for influencing...the idea > being that we could influence political thought in an adversary or reset > guidance systems in missles...SORRY...none of that ever occurred nor could be > ever EVER EVER even "influence" ourselves, lotteries (I say that now before > someone comes on line and says they are winning the lottery with RV...another > load of manure...) Influencing lotteries is an entirely different problem than influencing thought of a human being or sensitive electronics. Lotteries are hard because a) the Universe doesn't care whether a given bit is a 1 or a 5; and b) most state lotteries are crooked. Lotteries are a wast of time. Remote influencing certainly does work. Psychokinesis and healing are remote techniques. Shelley Thomson stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Do personal religious beliefs affect rving?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/104)
11:22:00
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
<< if a viewer, who was an aethist, would react if they were given the target of the cruxification of Jesus? We also wondered how those with structured religious beliefs (like in the major Christian religions) deal with information from targets that do not support their belief systems? For example --- the big bang and orgin of mankind. >> If a viewer were asked to view a ficticious target - something that did not really ever exist - the viewer would not find it or as a minimum, while thrashing around the ether, trying to find it..they may actually begin to Psychic-Overlay the target...in other words go to only place it actually exists, in the mind of the tasker. On the other hand, if the target did actually exist in history - the Crucifixion of a man called Jesus ca. 20 BC - 30 AD, a viewer could view the event and view any phenomena which may have occured, darkening of the skys, piercing of the chest and flow of water...things described in scriptures. The fact the viewer was an atheist would make no difference since they are operating in the right side of the brain and only viewing and reporting what they perceive at face value. They may even perceive emotional impacts of the gathered masses. This same aetheist would perceive the impact and activities of a Buddha, a Mohammed etc, in exactly the same manner. A spiritual encounter with something identified as St. Michael would be more difficult to absolutely clarify. Keep in mind, a name or even a title does not translate well in Remote Viewing although an angelic perception may well overcome this phenomena. As to why a Christian Saint would appear to a mortal has and will continue be a theological question and certainly nothing which this poor ignorant Mick from the wrong side of the tracks in Belfast would want to venture an opinion. A viewing of Apollo, Zeus, Diana, etc..now that is something else...these were mythical deities with no real or factual proof of actual mortal existence therefore, viewing these fairy tales would bring into great doubt the veracity of the viewer. I should add, that I feel essentially as shortsighted with most (not all) reports of associations and psychic tea parties and conversations with alien beings but please not I do not have a similarly closed mind when it comes to Celtic spirits and Fairies...ironic..but like I said..I am Irish and we are allowed to be a bit eccentric..it is in our blood... Gene Kincaid... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jeffery's remote influencing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/105)
11:22:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
<< Remote influencing certainly does work. Psychokinesis and healing are remote techniques. Shelley Thomson >> Myself, a couple dozen world class viewers working thousands a test under the most amazing oversights and controls along with about 20M$ worth of taxpayer dollars proved you to be wrong..but that is only my opinion...believe what you will but I assure you, not even four dozen viewers and 40M$ worth of Uncle Sugars money would have changed the results...sorry...but that is fact...and I can be just as hard case about it as those who really believe in the parlor tricks which they claim to be remote influencing... Gene Kincaid... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jeffery's remote influencing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/106)
11:22:34
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
> << Remote influencing certainly does work. Psychokinesis and healing are > remote techniques. > > Shelley Thomson > >> > Myself, a couple dozen world class viewers working thousands a test under the > most amazing oversights and controls along with about 20M$ worth of taxpayer > dollars proved you to be wrong..but that is only my opinion...believe what you > will but I assure you, not even four dozen viewers and 40M$ worth of Uncle > Sugars money would have changed the results...sorry... The fact that you could not do it certainly does not prove that others cannot. Why don't you read the research literature? There are *many* studies dealing with remote influencing. Rubik & Rauscher? Robert Jahn? etc. There is no shortage of evidence on this issue. Shelley Thomson stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jeffery's remote influencing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/107)
11:23:05
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
> the taxpayers dollars and literally thousands of sessions, we were never > REPEAT NEVER NIE, NADA..NICHTS etc...ever able to replicate any incident of > remote influencing and we even brought in some of the most famous folks in the > psychic business to see if they could do...same results....so with millions of > dollars, the best facilities, thousands or hours of practice all of which was > carefully monitored and recorded...not won bloodyu nose, not one > headache...not one pencil raised and stuck into the wall and not won desk ever > got levatated... These were the remote influencing results you wanted to get? Bloody nose, headache, pencil stuck into wall, and so forth? Gads . . . . thats not what he said . . . . read the letter again doll , use the left side of your brain . . . . . . It doesn't surprise me that you failed. >> Gene does not fail . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ever. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Psychic overlay
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/108)
11:23:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Gene wrote: If a viewer were asked to view a ficticious target - something that did not really ever exist - the viewer would not find it or as a minimum, while thrashing around the ether, trying to find it..they may actually begin to Psychic-Overlay the target...in other words go to only place it actually exists, in the mind of the tasker. Gene, My question is: did this happen to Courtney Brown? His book is kind of off the wall. Was most of it psychic overlay, vivid imagination, or real remote viewing? I mean is Buddha really governing the Galatic Federation? Courtney self appoints himself to represent all of mankind! Underground bases of Martians, etc. What is going on here? I guess I just don't understand psychic overlay. Could that also be what happened when he and others saw a companion object with the Hale Bopp comet? I hope my questions aren't too elementary. I appreciate your patience with newbies! I highly value your opinion. Thanks. Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jeffery's remote influencing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/109)
11:23:45
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
It doesn't surprise me that you failed. The anthropological literature and historical record are rich in accounts of remote influencing. The suggestion that none of this actually took place *because you and your cohorts could not do it* is absurd. >> absurd? Woman.... who are you talking too? "none of this actually took place *because you and your cohorts could not do it* " "Remote Influencing" works if both parties are agreered upon the influence ... (do ya wanna be...) with the majority of the tested populace at 78-102 IQ (MENSA) .... ya I would say that if you wanted to remote influence someone you could ... but only if the recipient was in agreement to accept suggestion...... Try a 75 IQer..... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psychic overlay
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/110)
11:24:00
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Jane-- I could tell from Gene's typing style that he was either: 1) Really wound up and writing faster than he could think of the right words in one of the various languages he knows; 2) Suffering from jetlag from one of his junkets--er, "business trips to exotic areas of the world on the taxpayers dime"; 3) A wee bit under the weather from too much association with this Guiness fellow he's always metioning (no, folks, we ain't talking world records, here); or 4) All of the above. I shall therefore graciously undertake to answer for him! ;-) What Gene was talking about is also known as "telepathic overlay." It was the subject of much discussion some months back on PJ's VWR group. Telepathic overlay is tuning in on someone else's thoughtforms instead of the desired target. This can come about in several ways. One is if the viewer is undisciplined or inexperienced, and he/she just picks up on someone's strong "vibes." Another is when several viewers are addressing the same target, and the viewer's subconscious gets confused and picks up on one of the other viewers. In this case, one might never know it happened, if the other viewer was "on target." Very closely matching reports is a POSSIBLE indicator in this case that TOL has occurred. A third way TOL occurs is when the viewer is tasked against a target that doesn't exist in reality, but only in the mind of the tasker. Perhaps, for example, the tasker believes a certain UFO event occurred, though it turns out the "event" was made up by someone the tasker mistaenly trusted. When tasked, the viewer "goes out looking" for the presumed target, but the subconsious finding nothing, it may sometimes latch on to the strongest "psychic signal" available--the beliefs of the tasker. In which case the viewer reports exactly what the tasker expected him/her to report, thus confirming everything the tasker originally believed. The irony is that telepathic overlay IS being psychic--it's just being pyschic in an unuseful and (usually) unfortunate way. I should point out that, though Ingo knows about this phenomenon, he did not teach us about it. We had to find out the HARD way! HaHa Gene--beat you to it! Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Do personal religious beliefs affect rving?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/111)
11:24:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
<< angelic perception may well overcome this phenomena. As to why a Christian Saint would appear to a mortal has and will continue be a theological question and certainly nothing which this poor ignorant Mick from the wrong side of the tracks in Belfast >> Well, having a wee bit O Irish blood in myself, most assuredly from the wrong side of the tracks, guess I am entitled to be a bit eccentric also (temper included) Now ... just why wouldn't The Michael, come too, join with, mere mortals. We are all immortal, as is Michael.... perhaps he has just just been around the bigger block......? stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jeffery's remote influencing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/112)
11:24:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
I thought I would bring out a few fallacy in our arguments. Gene...one of the first requirements in achieving or observing the reality of something is *believing.* Granted, we don't necessarily believe ourselves to richness necessarily, however *believing* does provide a healthy attitude to allow for *possibilities.* Your conclusion locks out all possibilities on scientific method that STILL is unable to provide reliable and CONCRETE evidence on the nature of PSI. But if you are making a formal argument whether Remote Influence is possible or not, regardless of whether it is an opinion (since an argument is either valid or invalid, opinion or not), your argument goes like this: 1. World class (whatever that means) Remote Viewers weren't able to Remote Influence. 2. Impeccable, strict scientific test with tons of money backing this "laboratory research" did not show Remote Influence results. 3. Therefore, Remote Influence experiments shows no results. So, that was a valid argument. But you extrapolated this valid argument into.... 4. Remote Influence is a like "parlor trick." In other words, RI is not possible. THAT... is an invalid argument. Since the two premises above did NOT indicate whether the nature of Remote Influence exist or not. So, the lab experiment ( probably conducted in isolation of other INDEPENDENT labs in virtue of its classified nature) ONLY proved that there were NO RESULTS in the experimentation process that was undertook at that particular TIME in your presence at that location. I have taken the liberty of applying a philosophic conclusion on your comment. I am not stating that RI exist or not. To have a better impact in persuation, I believe you will have to look for a better premise to substantiate RI existence or non-existence. As for Shelley...as positive as she claims its existence, her only alibi is research made on the subject. We are not made aware of the conditions, so we are left having to research the material ourselves. That's fine and dandy, but is also doesn't provide a persuasive argument in the NOW. A psychic element like this is something I would prefer experiencing first hand, its parameters defined, and full "statistical" interpretation of its repeated results, and the players. Thus, I am ambivalent in accepting either story, since the its much need for proper embellishment. So that we "believe what we will" is a philosophical statement we can argue forever. But our issue is scientific evidence openly displayed to establish CONCRETE evidence. An issue like this is much too important and carries tremendous ramification for it to be stated dubiously to the readers. Respectfully, electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jeffery's remote influencing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/113)
11:25:12
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 AquaSerene@... wrote: > "Remote Influencing" works if both parties are agreered upon the influence ... > (do ya wanna be...) with the majority of the tested populace at 78-102 IQ > (MENSA) .... ya I would say that if you wanted to remote influence someone you > could ... but only if the recipient was in agreement to accept > suggestion...... Try a 75 IQer..... > Ridiculous. Untrue. Shelley Thomson stargate : Message: [stargate]
Psychic overlay
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/114)
11:57:05
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Hi Paul! Thanks for providing an excellent definition of psychic overlay. Now I have a better idea of what is going on. As far as Courtney Brown goes, well, I guess I can reach my own conclusion based on his book. I do have another question about psychic overlays and Jesus. A friend viewed the cruxification of Jesus. She saw the man on the cross. He was dying. All around his head was ALOT of energies. Are those energies originating from the man Jesus or are those energies overlays from the millions of people that send energy/pray to that image? Can current energy be sent back to a previous event and appear as the original event? Just wondering.... Thanks! Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Do personal religious beliefs affect rving?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/115)
11:57:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Re Saints visiting mortals. When first starting out in psychic phenomenae, but not really believing it I took a class in psychic meditation in about 1977. It was sort of a primitive RVing class..but an argument broke out about whether entities that were contacted ( and people were claiming this) were trustworthy. Well the instuctor got carried away about measuring the Love and careing of the entity and whether it was just trying to boost your ego. He then went into what I later found out was Pauls speech on Love in Corinthians 13. Suddenly a patch of light appeared next to the leader and formed into the face of a beared robed man. Iwas nonplussed but silent. then one of the others described the same face I was seeing and said that Paul had the same message. Measure your worth by Love and Faith and Hope but most of all by Love. Thank God he didn't evangelize..I might have turned Catholic. But he didn't, just looked me straight in the eyes and said, psychic things were fine but only Love could be ultimately trusted. Everybody walked out in stony silence. Thats it folks..honest. Bill Pendergrass. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psychic overlay
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/116)
11:58:10
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Good one.....I definitely can relate to this one.... :-) electrix Paul H. Smith wrote: > Jane-- > > I could tell from Gene's typing style stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psychic overlay
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/117)
11:58:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Dear Paul: Since we are dealing with a lot of new participants in the new' wedded' Lists, we might take the time to let them know that we were discussing 'Contamination of Targets' and 'possible contamination of remote viewing targets' which is a subject of intense interest to us all. It might be interesting for those who were not 'in' on the original discussion to take a chogie to PJ's archived VWR and PSI Lists back a couple of months. :) Sincerest Bevy J stargate : Message: [stargate]
No More Remote Influencing Discussions
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/118)
11:58:32
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Dear List: The debate over remote-influencing is causing evident tensions on this list. Since it is such a hotly controversial topic, with many heated opinions, I would like everyone to halt discussion of this subject as of the date and time of this post. If you must continue discussion, please take it to private e-mail. Could everyone please, for the meantime, refrain from making any further remote-influencing posts. Some of the people on this list have made comments which could be interpreted as offensive (or, perhaps just blunt to the extent that they can easily be seen as offensive.) I am tempted to remove access to this list for these individuals, but given the controversial nature of the topic, I can understand why people may of become agitated. I am also opposed to "authoritarian" solutions to problems, so I will instead give these individuals another chance. But be aware that anyone who makes a post about remote-influencing past the posting of this message will receive a written email warning. This will be followed by suspending of their access to this list if they persist. I would not like to have to switch this list to moderated discussion, but this may become necessary if people do not calm themselves down and try to discuss and debate subjects in a mature, calm manner. I am sorry this 'order' is necessary, but as List Owner/Moderator, it is my responsibility to ensure this list operates smoothly. As I have repeatedly said, I will *only* bring in rules and moderation if I feel it becomes necessary. Until recently, I felt the list was operating fine without the need for rules or moderation. I felt it provided a great example of self-restraint and self-control on the part of the contributors. However, my opinion on this subject may change if people are not prepared to exercise more self-control. The offenders (you know who you are!) should feel ashamed for their conduct. Some may be receiving private e-mails on this matter. Best regards, Steve Crietzman List Owner and "Moderator" stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psychic overlay
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/119)
11:58:47
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
In a message dated 98-06-30 23:39:23 EDT, you write: << ases of Martians, etc. What is going on here? I guess I just don't understand psychic overlay. Could that also be what happened when he and others saw a companion object with the Hale Bopp comet? I hope my questions aren't too elementary. I appreciate your patience with newbies! I highly value your opinion. Thanks. >> I become immediately suspect when a viewer begins coming across with great amounts of very detail data...numbers, plans, constructions sites, discussions, names, clothing, etc...when viewing, a well qualified and honest viewer weill normally see bits and pieces of a site and after a while, these bits and pieces will form a more concise whole but they never form a nice DiVinci or Monet...they will always be just out of reach of full clarity...The mind is a wonderful tool capable of building just about any image it wishes to build. The whole Hale Bopp fiasco was - IMHO - a fine example of self fulfilling RV prophecies...Some people desparately want a great conspiracy to exisit in which governments / religious leaders / beings from the belt of Orion etc, are all involved in some sort of mutually agreed upon situation. It is always amazing to me that a standing President who cannot even conceal a moment of passion in a private office within in the Whitehouse seems to be able to conceal something so pervasive within the government that literally thousands of officials would have to be fully aware of and participate in the conspiracy. I DON"T THINK SO....So many people saw Hale-Bopp as some sort of second coming, some sort of clever alien ruse or some sort of deeper alien cover up that their minds simply made it so...I have told some of my old war stories so many times, exaggerating and adding now and then to please the audience, that I am not sure if I remember the real facts anymore...happens to lots of old soldiers...it is quite understandable how vivid imaginations and stray memories of old "B" grade black and white movies from the past could cause even someone as obviously intelligent as a college professor could also fall prey to the tricks of the mind... Jane...I love your questions...do not stop...makes me have to think and old worn out minds like mine need the exercise...hahaha Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psychic overlay
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/120)
11:58:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
<< The irony is that telepathic overlay IS being psychic--it's just being pyschic in an unuseful and (usually) unfortunate way. I should point out that, though Ingo knows about this phenomenon, he did not teach us about it. We had to find out the HARD way! HaHa Gene--beat you to it! >> Me Guinness...what...well maybe a bit in the morning just to help the economy of my struggling homeland... Yes...messed up my wording...and yes I did mean TOL...oh well...now you have done it...you have ruined my reputation by forcing me to admit that I was wrong about something...what will the net think of me now...no longer am I an invincible icon...my guru status is in great jeopardy...oh no!!!!!!! Thanx for pulling my irons from the fire... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psychic overlay
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/121)
12:01:13
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Gene-- At 09:00 AM 7/1/98 EDT, you wrote: >Me Guinness...what...well maybe a bit in the morning just to help the economy >of my struggling homeland... They tell me that something strange like "a bit of hair of the dog that bit you" is standard tretment... >Yes...messed up my wording...and yes I did mean TOL... Not TOO bad--"Psychic overlay" works as well as anything! oh well...now you have >done it...you have ruined my reputation by forcing me to admit that I was >wrong about something... And what reputation might that be? ;-) Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psychic overlay
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/122)
12:01:26
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hello paul good post! question : is the a way to check if there is an telepphatic overlay occured or not ? for example when remote viewing a target the tasker can add to the target definition that if the target dont exist then the viewer would get something else like the statue of liberty or will get nothing? Eyal stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
innervision invitation
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/123)
12:01:36
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
The Inner Vision Research Institute is starting up a mailing list at innervision@.... The list will primarily serve to: send subscribers the Inner Vision Newsletter on a monthly basis; inform subscribers about Inner Vision courses, dates and locations; research; and details about Angela Thompson Smith's new book Remote Perception's, which is to be published by Hampton Roads in September. Angela Thompson Smith will be doing talks and book signings around the country. The list will include dates and locations of these. The areas covered by the list, for discussion, will include OBEs, remote viewing, remote perception, PK, and many other topics of interest. There are several ways to subscribe: * If you send me an email, I will manually add your address to the list; * you can send an email message to innervision-subscribe-makelist.com Look forward to seeing you there. Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith The Inner Vision Research Institute Catalyst@... http://www.paradigm-sys.com/innervision stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Moving arond the target?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/124)
12:01:54
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
I hope some of you military guy's can help me with a few questions. I get pretty good general session data during RV, but want to know if there are better movement exrcises around a target. At the moment I move around like this: Move to target centre aquire, describe and sketch, Move 100ft above target centre describe and sketch. with exercises similar to these I get good data, but do you have any tips on how to fine tune this data, possibly by moving around the target, or any others? Any help would be appreciated. All the best... darryl stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Moving arond the target?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/125)
12:02:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
>> Darryl...(Neat name....)...anyhow, movement at a target is a tricky business at best. Not to be constantly tooting the horn of the monitors of the world...a monitor in your sessions would be able to assist you greatly in movement throughout the target areas...Now as to your own developed protocol....it is your protocol...use it if it works and don't worry what anyone else might say about it...too damned many experts in this business already...what we need is some real honest talent...I would caution you, however, not to become to rigid in your protocols especially those pertaining to movements...I tell my students the little story that it is quite possible for a person to eat a whole elephant but only if they eat it one small bite at a time...try to swallow it whole and the whole thing goes to hell....While on target, remember, it is not a liesurely tour through the park. There is probably a central theme to the target...a specific element or item which makes the target special. If you first focus on this element (while avoiding "door knobbing" - getting so close that you fail to actually see anything else ....), and spend some time with the central element, filling in the others bites of the elephant becomes easier and more clear. Try to take all of Disneyland in with one blink of the eye and you will see nothing...They key is to focus on key elements individually and then the peripherals and shazam...the magic occurs... Warmest Regards...Gene... P.S...I am being real nice and sweet ... make sure everyone knows...Steve threatened to toss me off the net if I continued to be my warm obnoxious self...hahahah stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sweet Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/126)
12:02:20
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I for one am really enjoying this more human Gene. Good work Steve! Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sweet Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/127)
12:02:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
<< I for one am really enjoying this more human Gene. Good work Steve! Bill >> hahahahaahah "Sweet Gene" ? remindes me of a song.... "Sweet like candy to my soul... sweet you rock and sweet you roll...." Yep... agreed, good work Steve. hmmmm or was the song "Sweet Jane" ??? stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Moving arond the target?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/128)
12:02:45
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
>I hope some of you military guy's can help me with a few questions. > snip > >Any help would be appreciated. > >All the best... > >darryl > Hi Darryl; Liam here. It seems to me you have developed a method which works well for you. Gene's answer was on the mark. I would like to expand on two of his points. First, at the military unit, determining when and where to move was the monitor's responsibility, not the viewers. The viewer might say " I think there is something important inside this structure." The monitor then MIGHT move the viewer inside the structure. The monitor is the one on the left side of his brain and capable of making logical decisions. The viewer is in contact with the signal line, and IMO is on the right side of his brain, and is probably incapable of rational thought (every notice how your spelling goes to hell when you are locked on a target. Of course that is how I spell normally) . Of course all this does not help you, if you are working without a monitor. When I work without a monitor I try limit my moves to gut level. I move where I feel I should move. A second alternative is what you are doing, "rote moves" the same for every target. The second point Gene made was the nature of the tasking. Most stage 3 and above sites, IMHO, should be fairly specific. If the tasking is to describe the physical condition of the Prime Minister, then that is what, in theory, the viewer will focus on. In this instance a description and skecth of the parliament building would not be helpful, except to tell the tasker that the viewer was close to the desired information. A third point, and I expect to take some heat rounds for this, is you may be expecting too much form a stage 3 skecth. IMO, the main value of a stage 3 skecth is that it puts the viewer in closer contact with the site. Some elements in the skecth will be correct, but others may be wrong or misplaced. The really amazing skecthes done at Ft Meade were done, not in stage 3, but at the conclusion of the session. After all this, I guess the only advice I have to offer is; If what you are doing works for you (and it seems to) then keep on doing it. Best wishes slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: [stargate]
Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/129)
12:03:16
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
>Thanks Gene, >for your help, when a problem is staring you in the face it takes an >outsider to give a much needed point of view. >All the best... Gene's not such a bad guy.. when he puts his mind to it It's me you ought to be worried about! I believe Gene called me "The English Oppressor" (ooh, the cheek of it, but how true - perhaps Gene's onto something there! ;-) Or was that Paul..? Oh, well whoever said it, was right ;-) Jokingly, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
session Summary!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/130)
12:03:33
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
>>done at Ft Meade were done, not in stage 3, but at the conclusion of the >>session. > > >Is it possible to clarify some more on these more detailed sketches. I get >some good sketches in Stage 4 and 6. But are you talking about sketches as >part of a session summery. I do not have much info on this part of the rv >process, and by natural curiosity rush through a summery so as to open the >target envelope. Any help on sessions summaries would be appreciated. > >th\anks in advance and for the previous help... > >darryl > Hi Darryl Liam again. A word of warning. Everything I am going to say is strictly my opinion. I have no scientific data to back it up.It is based on my experience at Ft Meade and later. I believe we obtain information from the signal line by three different ways. The first is perception: You put your pen on the paper and take what the signal line gives you. This is the primary (maybe the only) way we get information in stages 1 through 3. The second way is "cueing." In stage 4 you "perceive" a structure. You then place your pen in the proper place to cue in the dimensions, color, construction, and purpose. You are now "cueing" the signal line as to the type of information you desire. The third way we obtain information is "knowing." This is information about the site that you "just know." You did not perceive it, you did not "cue" it; you just know it. How many times have you finished a site, looked at the feedback and said "I knew there was water at the site. You did not perceive it or cue and you did not report it. It was information you knew, but you were not aware you knew it. This is more obvious in ERV. an ERVer might report there is a second man here. When asked to describe the second man, the viewer might come back with a whole string of data. This was information the viewer knew already. He was not aware he knew it until the monitor asked him for the information. A carefully written summary will produce a lot of that "known" information that is not available anyplace else in the session. A word of caution; the monitor will need to decide if this is "known" information (in which case it is probably correct) or if this is post-session- analyses (in which case it is probably wrong.). Sketches drawn while writing a summary tend IMO to trigger a lot of this "known" information. Stage 4 and stage 6 sketches tend to be more accurate than stage three sketches because you have more site contact and you have access to "known" information and you can cue information while you are sketching. I did not mean to be so long winded. remember everything I said is only my opinion. Hope this helps. warm regards slainte May the force be with you Liam The blues ain't nothing but a good man feeling bad stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Moving arond the target? and more!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/131)
12:03:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
>done at Ft Meade were done, not in stage 3, but at the conclusion of the >session. Is it possible to clarify some more on these more detailed sketches. I get some good sketches in Stage 4 and 6. But are you talking about sketches as part of a session summery. I do not have much info on this part of the rv process, and by natural curiosity rush through a summery so as to open the target envelope. Any help on sessions summeries would be appreciated. th\anks in advance and for the previous help... darryl stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Moving arond the target? THANKS!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/132)
12:04:04
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Thanks Gene, for your help, when a problem is staring you in the face it takes an outsider to give a much needed point of view. All the best... darryl stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
session Summary! THANKS!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/133)
12:04:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
>When asked to describe the second man, the viewer might come back with >a whole string of data. This was information the viewer knew already. He was >not aware he knew it until the monitor asked him for the information. Thank for the help and input, I know what you mean about just knowing parts of the target but with nothing to back it up. Would this "known" info be like stored info, like a cognitron as in stage 5 , I kind of get the feeling that it's not and that its' direct signal line. Any thoughts on this? Thanks for the info about cueing whilst sketching in stage 4-6, I never thought about doing this, yet it seems so abvious now you've mentioned it. All the best... Darryl stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Steve!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/134)
12:04:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Steve, have you looked at that session yet? I have alot more that can go online if it will help others with basics. I can even supply them already typed up if youd prefer. All the best... Darryl stargate : Message: [stargate]
Online Sessions
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/135)
12:04:35
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Darryl wrote: >Steve, have you looked at that session yet? I have alot more that can go >online if it will help others with basics. >I can even supply them already typed up if youd prefer. Hi Darryl, I received your e-mail, have unpacked the file and taken a quick look. I haven't been able to do much more with it until now. I'll take a look at them tonight or tommorrow and will get back to you by e-mail about it. Promise. I'm sorry about the delay up until now. This brings up an interesting question: would anyone else like their favourite xRV sessions (or "sessions of choice") scanned and put online? I think it would be useful to have sample sessions online, and hopefully in conjuction with the CRV Training Manual which PJ is due to put online on the 5th June, should help to de-mystify CRV for many. Just a guess there, since I've not had professional xRV training or seen the manual yet. Naturally, I'm looking forward to getting to see this manual. I hope it's on time. (Has anyone heard from PJ recently, BTW?) Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
innervision invitation
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/136)
12:04:54
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
I'd like to subscribe, please. Thank you, Mary Stanley stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Online Sessions
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/137)
12:05:07
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
<< (Has anyone heard from PJ recently, BTW?) Best regards, Steve. >> PJ is doing fine...we continue to correspond over her private E-mail addresses...she accepts me for the gruff old Celtic bear that I am and manages to live through it... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/138)
12:05:42
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> >This is precisely what I like about the UT site. > > Gosh, Rich--where were you when I was getting hammered on PJ's list for > cozying up to the nasty ol' skeptics?!? ;-) > >Oh yeah....dont forget your t-shirts.... :) Well.....I been hustling for demos for a long time. I'm sure I brought it up on PJ's once or twice...but also been at other sights especially where the recent RV students tend to tell how well it works for them. Almost with out fail....but fail to get up on stage. Needless to say that at one site all such discussions were deleted and banned. Lots of ways to look at it. You guys (and gals) who have been doing RV/PSI for a long time and what could be called "professional" level could reasonably get tired of doing "parlor tricks" I guess, but where is a newcomer to go? The bigger question is where did the "successful" newcomers go? Has anyone ever met someone who took up golf.....became good at it from the getgo and then went and played solo all the time or just the same 4-some all the time? Down here the place is teeming with golfers and every one is on a mission :) I want to make clear that I appreciate and am gratefull to all of the participants of PJ's site and this one. I just like my science books with pictures. > Neat idea! Wish I'd thought of it first. Then I could open a haberdashery > and forget about teaching this stuff. Save a lot of headaches... ;-) Just got back from Orlando/Universal/SeaWorld.....I'm sure there is room there for PSI_World. ...or some offshoot theme......Hale-Bopp Companion ride.......grey/reptilian water show.....etc :) Ohhh...Steve......is it ok to talk about RV/ET or RV/UFO ??? stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/139)
12:06:09
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Shelia Massey wrote: > > Rich Krankoski wrote: > > > RV sorely needs some "down to earth" > > publicity/demonstrations. Sensationalism has put things in a bad light and > > there seems to be no one wanting/willing/able to fix it. > > This is more a matter of the public paying closer attention. > giving you .... well I'll be polite and say the guys who are being > honest give you a lower percentage of success (and that's only if you're > really good). Absolutely true as in anything else. The two people claiming the most accurate and also the most far out RV obtained information have pretty much gotten on the stage, did their thing and came up with absolutely nothing. Their live demos came up zero %. But notice that they still have followers and student practitioners who are echoing their claims. So what is going on? Ed Dames claims years of experience. courtney Brown is relatively new...student/teacher/author. Both of their publicly proclaimed RV data have been un - verifiable if not verifiably wrong. What is the problem? Their choice of esoteric/future event targets? Never mind the Martians under Mt Baldy or the pathogen from space. Let me see them or their students OR ANYONE do some everyday real world targets......practice landscapes or pratical problem solving....whatever. > > To add to the confusion are the ..... "revelations" that there were/are apparently more than one people/military > > groups/projects who were not aware of each other going back many years. > > What? Tell me more....I haven't heard anything about this. Well, there is Glenn's group in Hawaii and Bevy's group in St Louis. I believe both have said that they were in RV separately from the Intel group and also earlier. And....according to Courtney Brown....there are still government RV groups. (...as I pour salt on my pretzel rods and potatoe chips.) > > > In the long run, I think that "RV" will become more and more known as a > > version of psi and not stand out so much. > > It does require consistent practice just as so many other disciplines do. > And to tell the truth this is what I think will be the cutting point -- > there will be those who will persist...and those who don't. And > of course, as so many of the scientists and psychologists have pointed out, > those who consciously are willing to go there but whose subconscious fears > block the way. Don't all forms of psi require practice? > > Its too much of a buzz word right now. But then that brings up > > other questions for me. Why have not the other types of psi ever caught > > on with the general public? Been around a lot longer.....astral projection > > .....OBE....psychometry.....channeling....etc. > > Well,,,,,,where have you been hiding? I'm 52 years old and to my > knowledge these things have been around and are accepted within their acknowledged > limits.... I've been around about as long and spent some time years ago looking for "Mr Psychic", the successor to Edgar Cayce, any successfull palm reader, ouija boarder, astrologer, etc. I came across ONE event that I would call a "hit". As long as I can remember, there were "fortune tellers"....even one of my aunts. ( She was indeed a family favorite in the parlor....but alas....to their credit no one bet their houses on the fortunes told.) Whatever the case, there is no widespread practice let alone accuracy and usefull results from any of these other forms of psi that I am aware of that has been publicly documeted. If there is please take my hand and lead me humbly to it. RV came on the scene quite differently than other psi.....government funded...documented results....a "recently" designed methodology....scientific studies.....widely listened to radio publicity....and the internet. I don't think any other form of psi has ever been given the same kind of publicity. Usually, it was that a specific individual could perform a specific kind of psi exteremely well. Here, it was the method that was given credit first and individuals secondarily. > > One reason may be that none of the others provide any consistency or > > high level of success. The same may be true of RV once the wild claims of 100% > > accuracy are disproved. And again I would like to see here or anywhere, > > samples from those new or old to the ability...and who make the high hit, high > > data resolution claims to step foreward into this "parlor" or UT or anywhere and strut > > their stuff. > > Who EVER made this claim???????? 100%.....Ed Dames. 100%.....Courtney Brown near 100%....various recent students of RV (mostly SRV and TRV ) and several who have recently opened their own schools. near 100%.....I believe some who are/were in the e-mail group. (I may be confusing with some who use other methodologies....not "f(RV)". ) > This is the attitude that baffles me the most. If we are waiting for > someone to prove high hit rates, and not willing to take say even a 30% rate of > success, which is an improvement over our normal state of consciousness, what is > this game about?........Whether it's RV, OBE, meditation, psychometry, scrying, etc. it's all > about knowing yourself enough to trust that you can move outside of the > normal boundaries of self and make it home again. I'll buy that.....really....I spent a few bucks years ago in search of...and again recently. It was worth it both times in that it satisfied my curiosity.....left me somewhat disappointed.... added to my knowledge.....and gave me a perspective that kept me interested. Now, if anyone can tell me the significance of the names Nelek and Tibif......they will perhaps close the circle on some "knowledge" obtained years ago. > Shelia Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rich on salt and potatoe chips.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/140)
12:06:18
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Hi Rich, all very good points on RV and psi and ED Danes etc. But youve got me really guessing on this paragraph. Is there a secret metaphore here, or are you the only other human being I know that puts salt on his potatoe chips. We definitely need to start a support group if so. What? Tell me more....I haven't heard anything about this. Well, there is Glenn's group in Hawaii and Bevy's group in St Louis. I believe both have said that they were in RV separately from the Intel group and also earlier. And....according to Courtney Brown....there are still government RV groups. (...as I pour salt on my pretzel rods and potatoe chips.) Bill Pendergrass stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rich on salt and potatoe chips.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/141)
12:06:28
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Aloha Guys, Saw my name mentioned and thought I would say hello. I have worked pretty hard with the help of several others in putting the website up showing exactly what we are all up to out here in the Islands. We have tried along the way to look at everything as well as do our best to entice some of the CRV folks out for a working vacation.. We make no claims about unrealistic accuracy or the future of the world. A trip to our website should show we are trying very hard and producing some fair results. We have about 40 active members in the Guild and the big plus is that we get to train, evaluate, retrain, and practice practice practice. Currently we find that communication between ourselves, meeting, classes, email, phone etc is a very good support base for results. The feeling of being a part of a team or group makes a comfort zone for us to tackle problem solving. Any specific inquires just send us some email. Aloha Glenn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rich on salt and potatoe chips.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/142)
12:06:47
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> government RV groups. (...as I pour salt on my pretzel rods and > potatoe > chips.) > > Bill Pendergrass > Well, Some things require much more than just A grain of salt. One of those being Margaritas. Just don't pour salt in my Augsburger. Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/143)
12:07:02
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On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Rich Krankoski wrote: > Absolutely true as in anything else. The two people claiming the most > accurate and also the most far out > RV obtained information have pretty much gotten on the stage, did their > thing and came up with absolutely > nothing. Their live demos came up zero %. But notice that they still > have followers and student > practitioners who are echoing their claims. So what is going on? It's called "advertising." > Never mind the Martians under Mt Baldy or the pathogen from space. Let > me see them or their students OR ANYONE do some everyday real world > targets......practice landscapes or pratical problem > solving....whatever. I agree. Practical problem solving is a worthwhile use of psi skills. If one had the help of an MD or a psychiatrist, it would be quite easy to set up exercises along this line. I am thinking of remote diagnosis, which can yield information that is helpful to all concerned. Now, if you check out "Mind Reach," by Targ & Puthoff, you will see a well written and extensive description of the first SRI remote viewing studies. There is a large collection of research literature on remote viewing--try your local university library, under the heading "parapsychology." Re. practical problem solving, I can offer two examples. (Please bear in mind that most of my rv work is either astronomical or, if related to people, confidential.) First, when the Hale-Bopp Companion photograph was published and Courtney Brown announced he had rv'd it, and identified it as an alien object, I rv'd the comet myself to see if he was right. I hoped it was true. (I've seen amazing things in space and I've always hoped that something large would come close enough to be photographed by astronomers.) I was disappointed to find that there was only ordinary comet material present. There was a lot of this material, because it's a big comet...but there were no alien artifacts. Then I rv'd the photograph and saw the hoaxer gloating about his success. I thereupon sent Art Bell an email informing him that there was no Hale-Bopp Companion and the photo was a deliberate fraud. Bell never answered my email. He continued to have Ed Dames on his show, for reasons that appear to be related somehow to money. Want a copy of the email? --Re the cylinder filled with brown substance, the plant pathogen Dames has mentioned, don't worry about it. It isn't there. Item 2. It's undignified, but well, here goes. When the Paula Jones story *first broke* months ago, it was mentioned that in her deposition she described the President's intimate anatomy. I was curious & rv'd the situation. I sent emails to a few women friends about the result, because I thought it was funny. I'm sure they'll remember this email and at least one of them would be kind enough to serve as a witness if required. Eventually an English tabloid broke the story. I was right. It's not hard to get good rv results if the problem is of intrinsic interest. > Don't all forms of psi require practice? Sure. Every skill requires practice. > Whatever the case, there is no widespread practice let alone accuracy > and usefull results > from any of these other forms of psi that I am aware of that has been > publicly documeted. > If there is please take my hand and lead me humbly to it. Try a good university library. Psychokinesis has been very extensively studied, for instance. If you want to see good rv accuracy, and don't feel like reading about the research, you should come up with a worthwhile problem whose answer is of intrinsic interest, where some kind of verification will be available in the future. (Don't ask viewers to guess lottery numbers; alphanumeric information doesn't make transit reliably in rv mode. Nobody cares whether a number is a 1 or a 4, anyway...) Get people to view something that is of interest to them. Then you'll see good results. Shelley Thomson stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV numbers
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/144)
12:07:16
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> you should come up with a worthwhile problem whose answer >is of intrinsic interest, where some kind of verification will be >available in the future. (Don't ask viewers to guess lottery numbers; >alphanumeric information doesn't make transit reliably in rv mode. >Nobody cares whether a number is a 1 or a 4, anyway...) Get people to >view something that is of interest to them. Then you'll see good >results. > >Shelley Thomson > hello shelly do u think nobody care a number is 1 or 4 if they know its worth alot of mony? i belive number can be seen in rv steel didnt got to that stage to prove it, but for those who cant rv numbers what about ingo A.R.V method wich developed in SRI? Eyal stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/145)
12:07:30
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Hi Rich, Shelia, List, >>Whatever the case, there is no widespread practice let alone accuracy >>and usefull results from any of these other forms of psi that I am >>aware of that has been publicly documeted. >>If there is please take my hand and lead me humbly to it. >RV came on the scene quite differently than other psi.....government >funded...documented results....a "recently" designed methodology.... >scientific studies.....widely listened to radio publicity....and the internet. Which all makes this subject a lot more interesting to the general public and science-minded folks - we're not talking your average psychic here, we're talking about a long-term project, funded by government agencies with millions of dollars of tax-payer money, to research, develop and use psychic ability under a strict, scientific protocol developed in some of the most prestigious scientific institutions in the US. It gives the subject a lot more credibility, and was no doubt enough to make even the hardened skeptic sit up and pay attention. Where I have a problem, and perhaps you'll share my concern here, is that so much of this data isn't out on the table yet. Rich, you are always calling for demos, and this is exactly what I'd like to see too. It's not considered to be "doubting" a musician if you use them to demo their talent. You want to see a demonstration, to gauge it for yourself, and have them show off their skills. Granted, it's a very different field, but the principle is still the say: show me the goods, I'm interested to see how you'll do! Asking a person to perform is not to imply they can't do it any more than asking the musician to do it. But perhaps we like to see it for our own eyes, rather than rely on second-hand stories. I've read through a lot of the scientific papers that have been published about psi (what I could understand of them! ;) While they are fascinating, and if confirmable, offer extremely compelling evidence, I have one nagging problem with accepting their findings, and that's we have to rely on the word of the scientists' conclusions and papers. There is no way to independently verify their findings unless we own our own lab. We can't get ahold of the data they used to reach their conclusions - we can only see their conclusions. Because we can't take a look at their FULL data, we can't do what so many researchers, including Joe McMoneagle, has said is important in this field, which is they need to be open to peer-review, criticism, etc. We can't do that by looking at their conclusions alone. We can't critique the conclusions (and so "test" them) because we can't see the "working out", so to speak. We can only see half the deck, we only know the end-result of their research, and we have no way of telling if their research was conducted properly, without error, until we get to look at EVERYTHING, or have that possibility for people who do want to obtain it. FAILING THAT, I think the only remaining option is the one that Rich has been calling for, for god-knows-how long: demos! Public, open, demos! So we set up our *own* lab, online. A demo lab. We have protocols, we have viewers, we follow a set of lab protocols to perform all the tests, sessions, collect all the data, and work with whatever we find. Just like a real lab would. Except it'd be an online lab. Okay, so perhaps it'd be a little more amateurish, but at least we'd all get to see everything. The entire process should be open to criticism, peer- review, etc. and should adapt and evolve as people throw criticism it's way, until the point where there's no more criticism because nothing wrong can be found in how the experiments are being done. Then, the real "fun" begins - people do their sessions, and the hits and misses start to be tallied. We start to build up our very own statistics, we can make our own conclusions from it, perhaps write the odd report of our own summarising how things are going and what we've found so far, etc. The most important thing? Absolutely everything, from drawing board to all the conclusions we make, will be on the website (or wherever), for all to see, to examine, to criticise, etc. No holes barred. I think if this sort of project existed, and we started to get the higher-than-chance results that the labs are claiming, we can say fairly safely "something is happening, and it's got nothing to do with our procedures etc." We can't say this about the labs because we can't see how the experiments were run. We have only the faith in the scientists to go on. But scientists are notorious for not trusting each other. Why do you think there are other labs out there trying to duplicate other lab's finding? Because they don't trust, or distrust: they're repeating the experiment so they can "see all, know all" and thus be able to tell if the *original* lab's data/conclusions was accurate. I've heard that oftentimes sloppy procedures have been used in the past that allow room for possible fraud, although I am not making these charges against the labs we're all familiar with. The point is, that until the entire process is openned up to proper peer-review (examination by peers) and criticism, we only know what the labs tell us. That's not comfortable for people who like to "know all, see all." In other words, scientists (whether they have a Ph.D. or they're just sitting at home reading science books, visiting websites and wanting to do their own bedroom experiments.) >> This is the attitude that baffles me the most. If we are waiting for >> someone to prove high hit rates, and not willing to take say even a 30% rate of >> success, which is an improvement over our normal state of consciousness, what is >> this game about?........ Actually, I'd be satisfied with a demonstrable and consistent above-chance accuracy rate *where the entire process has been fully open to examination and peer-review*, although if it is dangerously close to chance levels, I'd be more inclined to suspect the possibility that perhaps some unknown, unseen methodology errors may be responsible. As the controversial Ray Hyman stated, methdological flaws are often never spotted, and have assumed to all have been eliminated, only for years later a flaw is discovered, casting doubt on earlier experiments and results. The further from chance, and if protocols are virtually waterproof (I doubt it is possible to eliminate every possible vulnerability, all the time), then the more inclined I am to suspect some kind of paranormal functioning is really at work. Right now, I am painfully trying to tight-rope between the 'skeptic' and 'supporter' position of remote-viewing. I see merit in both arguments. I believe more information is needed before we can settle the debate for good, which is why I have so forcefully and brutefully pursued the Freedom of Information Act, and have attempted to gain information in other ways as well (such as requesting further information from labs involved in this research, and being cautiously supportive of projects such as the UT Skeptic site.) I hate not having solid answers, and I really don't feel there are any water-tight answers yet. Some might say I'm asking for the impossible. Well, if that's true, I'm going to lead an interesting life, on a constant quest for new information.. :-) >I'll buy that.....really....I spent a few bucks years ago in search >of...and again recently. It was worth it both times in that it satisfied my >curiosity.....left me somewhat disappointed....added to my knowledge..... >and gave me a perspective that kept me interested. I wish I could afford CRV training. I really do. (Is this some suttle hint to CRV trainers? No, I don't think so ). Rich, I envy you here. You're got some training I would love to have. Hopefully the CRV manual, due to be published tommorrow at PJ's site, will have some of those answers I've been seeking. Here's to the search.. Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
CRV Stage 5 queries!!!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/146)
12:07:40
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I have a query I hope all you CRV'ers, and military guys can help with: At stage 4, alot of good info comes through from the target, But then for stage 5, the signal line is broken and info then comes from storage within the brain synapses. After this Do we go back to the signal line for stage 6 or is all the information from stage 5 onwards from the synapses? For me it kind of feels like stage 5 is a hiccup between the flow of info that seems so flowing in clusters in stage 4 and 6. How important is stage 5 to the whole process? thanks for any help... All the best... Darryl stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/148)
12:08:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
In a message dated 7/4/98 1:16:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sthomson@... writes: << Item 2. It's undignified, but well, here goes. When the Paula Jones story *first broke* months ago, it was mentioned that in her deposition she described the President's intimate anatomy. I was curious & rv'd the situation. I sent emails to a few women friends about the result, because I thought it was funny. I'm sure they'll remember this email and at least one of them would be kind enough to serve as a witness if required. Eventually an English tabloid broke the story. I was right. >> Let me get this right...you say you used RV to view the structure or alleged abnormality of the penis of a perfect stranger...then based on a story which appeared in a British tabloid...you now believe you are correct...and your prurient viewing was a success...I think Mr. Clinton should have to opportunity to view you naked body and to make comments on it to the net as well...fair is fair...I will not even begin to discuss the perversity of what you did...which would have gotten you a nice personal sex offenders card to carry with you in many of the United States had you used your true eyes...but if you think this was a valid use of this thing we call RV...I would caution those of you who meet Ms. Thomsons students in the future to expect your most intimate and private thoughts to be fair game according to the way the instructor uses this gift..My students on the other hand are told that such prurient use is not only crass and boorish but is gournds for immediate cessation of instructions...of course I do not charge my students therefore I guess I am not obligated to come up with slick methods to encourage others to attend my training....Shame on you Shelly...and if you want ot view my old, decripit body...save the energy...I will scan you a photo... gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
CRV Stage 5 queries!!!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/149)
12:08:26
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
>It depends on your purpose, and what the overall task is. If you need >great detail about something, Stage 5 can be invaluable. It can also help >you break out useful info that is locked up in AOLs. However, not EVERY >session requires that you take the detour to Stage 5. > >Enjoy, >Paul > Hi paul Thank for the help. I am using Thge classic style from The CRV (Coordinate) manual that I have had for a while. But as you know a manual does not tell you everything. Am I right in assuming that it is not necasarry to use stage 5 in all sessions and that you can skip from 4 to 6. All the best... Darryl stargate : Message: [stargate]
Military CRV Manual Online
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/150)
12:08:45
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Hi All, PJ Gaenir now has the full Army CRV (Coordinate Remote Viewing) manual available for free download. The address to her site is: http://www.paradigm-sys.com/firedocs/ (Archivist's note: that became http://www.firedocs.com later. -- PJ Gaenir 6/2006) Comments on the manual are welcome on this list. Enjoy! Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Hi...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/151)
12:09:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
I would ask Steve to pass on to the rest of the folks on the net...after a fairly exhausting review of candidates for my next student...I have settled on one person...we will begin formal instructions in a month perhaps six weeks...and for Liam and the other guys from the old unit...No it was not based on bust size... Thanx for the response from all of the other applicants...please note I still have your little notes and will keep them handy on my screen in case this student finally comes to her senses and tells me to go to hell...I would ask those of you who were seeking instructions to keep an eye on the Stargate...ask questions, read books and articles and if you can put the ducets together...STRONGELY recommend you arrange formal instructions from Paul in Texas...his one and two week classes are pricey because he is greedy but when you leave..you are a good Remote Viewer...then you can come to me and I will make you a GREAT remote viewer (if I have the space open)... Warmest Regards...Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/152)
12:10:13
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> << > Item 2. It's undignified, but well, here goes. When the Paula Jones > story *first broke* months ago, it was mentioned that in her deposition > she described the President's intimate anatomy. I was curious & rv'd the > situation. I sent emails to a few women friends about the result, because > I thought it was funny. I'm sure they'll remember this email and at least > one of them would be kind enough to serve as a witness if required. > > Eventually an English tabloid broke the story. I was right. > >> > Let me get this right...you say you used RV to view the structure or alleged > abnormality of the penis of a perfect stranger...then based on a story which > appeared in a British tabloid...you now believe you are correct...and your > prurient viewing was a success...I think Mr. Clinton should have to > opportunity to view you naked body and to make comments on it to the net as > well...fair is fair... Listen, fella, this response is disgusting and completely out of line on this list. I did not flame anyone. I offered an example of a remote viewing in which I announced the result before the information was publicly known, and confirmation was subsequently available. I point out that I did not describe the information gained by the viewing on this list, or in any other public place. The Presidential privacy was not invaded by my disclosure of the fact that I was able to rv him. This is again, out of line. Where is our list moderator? Shelley Thomson stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Hi...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/153)
12:10:24
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Gene-- At 09:28 PM 7/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >weeks...and for Liam and the other guys from the old unit...No it was not >based on bust size... Yeah, right! >ducets together...STRONGELY recommend you arrange formal instructions from >Paul in Texas... That's "ducats." Gene, you never were any good with money ;-) Enjoy, Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/154)
12:10:38
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On Sun, 5 Jul 1998 Curran2106@... wrote: > My students on the other hand are told that such > prurient use is not only crass and boorish but is gournds for immediate > cessation of instructions.. Well, you can order people not to think certain thoughts or entertain certain images, but you'll have just as much luck ordering bees not to buzz. I think it is more important to educate students in the value of privacy, and the appropriate use of any information they may obtain. You are not committing an error by obtaining information, because we can all do that by reflex when we learn proper techniques. But if you learn someone's secrets you are responsible for what you do with them. Note that the chain of circumstances that led me to rv the President started when he displayed himself to a woman who did not want that to happen. He is a public figure and not an inhibited man in any case. Furthermore, elements of Ms. Jones's description have become public knowledge without any effort from me, so my remarks on the list do not further infringe his privacy. And I point out again that I did not describe the anatomical feature--I merely mentioned that I had rv'd it and I was right. With reference to my "slick methods"-- I knew I'd get recognition if I hung around this list long enough--very early in my lessons I teach students how to preserve their privacy against remote viewing by other persons. I'd like to see a discussion on the list, of methods of defending against remote viewing. Is anyone up to this? Shelley Thomson stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/155)
12:10:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
shelley thomson wrote: > I think it is more important to educate students in the value of privacy, > and the appropriate use of any information they may obtain. excuse my confusion .... but how is it that you exemplify this directive with posting yourinformation on the world wide web? > You are not committing an error by obtaining information, because we can all > do that > by reflex when we learn proper techniques. But if you learn someone's > secrets you are responsible for what you do with them. my point exactly. > Note that the chain of circumstances that led me to rv the President > started when he displayed himself to a woman who did not want that to > happen. You're buy in to the media....... > He is a public figure and not an inhibited man in any case. > Furthermore, elements of Ms. Jones's description have become public > knowledge without any effort from me, so my remarks on the list do > not further infringe his privacy. Although I personally think you had a major AOL drive going, since I'm from the gateway of the wild west excuse my comment, but BS! > And I point out again that I did not describe the anatomical feature--I > merely mentioned that I had rv'd it and I was right. You assume you were right. Short of a photo you have no real feedback. > With reference to my "slick methods"-- I knew I'd get > recognition if I hung around this list long enough-- gag! > very early in my lessons I teach students how to preserve their privacy > against remote > viewing by other persons. Geez!.... let's see, if we cultivate constant vigilance against intrusion where do weend up folks? Same place as any abused child: paranoid, dissociative, and confused. > I'd like to see a discussion on the list, of methods of defending > against remote viewing. Is anyone up to this? WELL, I thought you were the master.... lead the sheep.... Shelia stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/156)
12:11:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Perhaps, the topic should be Ethical Responsibility in Remote Viewing or the Code of a Remote Viewer. Then perhaps people wouldn't have to be "defending" themselves against unathorized intrusion in a person private life. I mean...if I find myself intruding on someones lifestyle, it should be equally fair for someone to intrude on mine, wouldn't we say? But since I wouldn't do that...I would like to think the same privacy is due me. This kind of mentality only serve to foster tresspasing and espionage (which I am sure there is enough of it going around already) and rampant degradation of a tool that could be utilize for the "benefit" of Mankind. I don't think scanning the Prez helps in this regard. And so that we know that I am biased...I am a supporter of the Man, whether is sexual appetite is verocious or not. I couldn't think of a "better" Presidents that could be in the White House today. But the Man is what we have. Why degrade what is in the tabloid and newspaper already. By the way, I am not here to argue politics. I believe Gene has properly address this invasion of privacy...as much as he considers himself a "Celtic Bear." At least he knows where to curbs his limits. This issue (Ethics), of course, falls under philosophy, and as we know...philosophers have flogged this horse to death and arrive at no pragmatic conclusion. I don't see this being resolved anytime soon on a mailing list like this. But before establishing a "defensive" posture and start the RV Cold War...it would be nice to codify the "proper" behavior for a Remote Viewer. That would be far more rewarding. And sure, just like there are "evil" doctors out there who would violate their Codes of Ethics, at least it serves to maintain balance and differentiate the bad apples from the good ones. The Code of a Remote Viewer would serve the Remote Viewers of the world just as well. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/157)
12:11:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
> shelley thomson wrote: > > > I think it is more important to educate students in the value of privacy, > > and the appropriate use of any information they may obtain. > > excuse my confusion .... but how is it that you exemplify this directive with > posting yourinformation on the world wide web? I didn't post my information. I said I had done the viewing and could produce a witness if asked; and that a tabloid had subsequently disclosed the information, which agreed with my viewing. > > Note that the chain of circumstances that led me to rv the President > > started when he displayed himself to a woman who did not want that to > > happen. > > You're buy in to the media....... Not at all. I rv'd the event and concluded that Paula Jones was telling the truth. > > > He is a public figure and not an inhibited man in any case. > > Furthermore, elements of Ms. Jones's description have become public > > knowledge without any effort from me, so my remarks on the list do > > not further infringe his privacy. > > Although I personally think you had a major AOL drive going, since I'm from > the gateway of the wild west excuse my comment, but BS! > I see. I can't help wondering what our list manager thinks of remarks like yours, which are rude and devoid of information value. > > And I point out again that I did not describe the anatomical feature--I > > merely mentioned that I had rv'd it and I was right. > > You assume you were right. Short of a photo you have no real feedback. > But you had no problem characterizing my remark as "BS". What's your basis? Do you, perhaps, have a photograph? > > With reference to my "slick methods"-- I knew I'd get > > recognition if I hung around this list long enough-- > > gag! > It's called humor. Have someone explain the concept to you. > > very early in my lessons I teach students how to preserve their privacy > > against remote > > viewing by other persons. > > Geez!.... let's see, if we cultivate constant vigilance against intrusion > where do weend up folks? Same place as any abused child: paranoid, > dissociative, and confused. You are mistaken. There are techniques for this purpose. I tried to invite discussion of this area. So far I've received only this silly flame. I'd like to see a discussion with some substance. Shelley Thomson stargate : Message: [stargate]
President Clinton, Shelley and Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/158)
12:11:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
List: >This is again, out of line. Where is our list moderator? I was lying on my bed with my eyes closed! Believe it or not, we do sleep here in the UK! It's now 7am and I've just woken up. I can't be expected to be awake 24 hours a day. And please remember this list is unmoderated - I do not screen posts. I did not think it would be necessary. I am starting to have second thoughts. When I went to sleep, there was Shelley's post and Gene's post. I very nearly posted a message asking everyone to stop and now regret not doing so earlier. I am now doing so Please, everyone, stop the President Clinton discussion. I do not feel we can learn anything worthwhile from this discussion at all, and since there is no verifiable feedback, discussion of RV sessions about him don't add anything worthwhile to anything at this point. Shelley, I do not like you telling me how I should run my list. Let me do that. Just a few days ago, you, in your own words, "attacked an innocent". Now, yet again, you seem to be in the center of a flame war, and Gene is also again involved with his razor-wit. Shelley and Gene, I do not like to do this, but considering that you have both been at the center of two provokative arguments lately, I must ask that in future you send mails to the list to steve@... for review first, until further notice. I will notify you if/when I feel this is no longer necessary. In the meantime, *everyone* - halt discussion on this topic. Anyone who persists on this subject line will be warned privately by e-mail, and/or have their subscription immediately revoked. You have been warned. Now, let's get back to: the recently posted CRV Manual, and to serious RV/psi theory and discussion. There will be no further discussion on the matter of President Clinton in public. If there is, you can expect to lose your subscription. Shelley and Gene, please e-mail your posts to the list to me for review in future - do not post them directly to the list in future (until further notice), or your access *will* be revoked. Likewise, everyone should end this topic be prepared to lose their access to the list. Regards, Steve Crietzman List Manager stargate : Message: [stargate]
Psi-Blocking
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/159)
12:11:56
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Shelley, > I'd like to see a discussion on the list, of methods of defending > against remote viewing. > > Is anyone up to this? You can try, it can't hurt! We need some new brain food after recent events, that's for sure. I already realise that some people may want to turn around and say "this is not possible, case closed", but we have to allow discussion on this topic, even if it's controversial. I do not want to get to the situation where controversial topics are being banned because some people over-react when the subject comes up. I encourage critical questions to/about remote-viewing and remote-viewers on this list. I do not expect anyone to have to accept the validity of psi based on 'faith in experts', and would rather people ask the difficult questions. (I see 'faith in experts' tantamount to the problems of scientism, as discussed earlier. When it comes to RV, I encourage people to have faith in facts and figures, not people. Everyone, keep replies polite, and if you've got something to say that you are not sure about posting (possibly offensive? Possibly impolite?), first send it to the list moderator for review: steve@..., and I will let you know if I feel the post is appropriate for posting. [--All the below is not to be quoted in public replies--] I would like to add that this is how I see the (previous!) situation, an elaboration. Shelley posted a post, in which she may or may not have been referring to the President's private parts when she said she'd "viewed the case." I would consider it impolite and offensive to talk about people's sexual parts on this list, even if they *are* in the public eye, but even worse so when remote-viewing is brought into the fold. She certain *did* refer to the Prez's private parts, but did she *view* them? Her language on that part is difficult to decern. Gene's reply, while heated, is certainly understandable. If we take that small step and say that Shelley was not posting about having viewed the Prez's private parts, just the case in general, and Gene misunderstood (giving both the benefit of the doubt), then that would just about "clear" both individuals from causing deliberate harm. But if we take a different small step - that Shelley *was* saying she'd viewed the Prez's private parts, then Gene's reply is tolerable and understandable under the circumstances, but that Shelley's was suspicious to say the least. And finally, if Shelley's post was meant innocently enough, just bringing the subject up under perhaps the assumption that people might get a quick smirk out of it and the subject would drop, then it would be Gene who really started off the fireworks, by turning around and calling Shelley many nasty names. So: we can see all as innocent, just Shelley as innocent *or* just Gene as innocent. Are any "proven guilty"? I'd say no. So, who to "blame"? As List Moderator, what matters to me is the smooth running of this list, not in casting blame or in dishing out punishment. I feel it necessary to air on the side of caution, without being too harsh, in order to keep this list from going down a questionable path. Shelley and Gene must now have their posts screened before posting to the list. This will continue to be the case for at least a couple of weeks, maybe later. After a certain amount of time, and I feel their posts have all been non- objectionable in that period, I will probably allow them to post as everyone else does - unscreened - until/if another problem arises. I will do the same for any other questionable subjects and posters that arise here. This is now official list policy for dealing with "a situation," although by no means do I relinquish the right to use a different judgement in different circumstances, with perhaps varying degrees of harshness. I have not banned anyone, I have not suspended posting privilleges for anyone. I am merely keeping a closer eye on Shelle and Gene's posts by pre-screening them, and this situation will probably be temporary. I think this is reasonable. My hope is that this will restore the list to normal, without having to resort to more drastic measures. I hope everyone will allow this topic to end now. Discussion of RV ethics is welcome to continue, if no mention of sexual behaviour is included. People who are submitting possibly controversial posts are asked to send them to the list moderator for review. This will reduce or eliminate any risk of action being taken against you, instead of having posted the post without screening, with it later deemed to be inappropriate. [-- End non-quotable part of post. -Private- feedback welcome.--] Regards, Steve Crietzman List Moderator stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
President Clinton, Shelley and Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/160)
12:12:04
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Steve Crietzman wrote: > > Shelley, I do not like you telling me how I should run my list. > Let me do that. Just a few days ago, you, in your own words, > "attacked an innocent". Now, yet again, you seem to be in the > center of a flame war, and Gene is also again involved with his > razor-wit. As you know, I apologized for my rude remarks to AquaSerene. I failed to read the header and thought it was an inappropriate remark from someone else. This was, incidentally, a transaction in private email, which you have seen fit to publicize on the list. This cures me of sending private mail to you. Please unsubscribe me. This is a waste of time. Shelley Thomson stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Military CRV Manual Online
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/161)
12:12:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
As one who is a great believer in the ability of people to train themselves, and as one who has had up to Stage 4 training with Paul, I can say that if I had had the manual I would have 'gone it alone' and as a result would have missed a whole world of information that is just not present in the manual. If you are in the position of having to forgo training at present, I would encourage you to go to PJ's site and scour all the additional information available there in the archives to add to the information in the manual. Pay particular attention to what Paul, Gene, Joe, and Lyn have to say in response to questions, and continue to ask your questions here. Note that even though PJ has discontinued her public work re: RV, she is continuing her training with Lyn. Thanks to Steve, the process is ongoing. Shelia stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
President Clinton, Shelley and Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/162)
12:12:49
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
>Please unsubscribe me. This is a waste of time. Per Shelley's request, she has been unsubscribed from the list. Comments on this matter from now on should be addressed to the list moderator by private mail, or taken to the Star Gate Discussion BBS at: http://www.progressiveweb.net/local-cgi-bin/config.pl I do not feel that they are either appropriate, or productive for this list. Discussion on this matter is welcome at the BBS - I certainly don't want to be unaccountable for my actions as list moderator. I believe in accountability, and I have often stressed how important this is in science. Comments of all types, supportive or not, are welcome at the BBS above, just not here. Thank you. Now let's get back on track, folks. Comments on the CRV manual, anyone? Best regards, Steve Crietzman List Manager stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/163)
12:12:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
electrix wrote: > Perhaps, the topic should be Ethical Responsibility in Remote Viewing or the > Code of a Remote Viewer. Then perhaps people wouldn't have to be "defending" > themselves against unathorized intrusion in a person private life. Thank you for your thoughtful reply to this issue. And I do apologize to the list members for my spontaneous and quite visceral response in my earlier message.The ethical issues are many and provide endless food for discussion. When is it appropriate to intrude into another person's space just because you can without their knowledge? I can not think of very many instances. It is something each of us has to think about seriously and answer. I do think that the greatest protection lies in one's own ethical behavior. (Steve just woke up and now it's 3:30 am here and I'm headed for sleep...) but I agree, it would be productive for us to discuss this topic. Shelia stargate : Message: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/164)
12:13:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Hello everyone, I was just going through my drawers today and came across.. some playing cards! My mind immediately flitted back to when Lyn, Paul and Joe were on the Art Bell show, and Lyn was talking about his success with black and red cards (so-called "binary" experiments because there are only two possible answers, with a 50% chance of each card being red or black.) I remembered Lyn claiming he'd managed 58.?% accuracy, and Joe McMoneagle once scoring 100% on 52 cards.. versus the average Joe's 50%. As a "semi" skeptic, I would find this kind of clear-cut demonstration/test of psi, showing these kinds of high scores, accuracy, VERY impressive. Then my thoughts flited to the UT skeptics site and all the criticisms that had surrounded it, plus all the confusing statistics we're always hearing about psi when it comes to remote-viewing distant targets: something (statistically speaking) that is far more difficult to analyse and understand for the laymen. So I thought.. what about trying a real, online, binary, black-or-red card psi test, which we can all take part in and contribute in? So no one could accuse me of cheating, I could encrypt the answer to the sequence of red and black cards into a file, and provide the key to unlock it after everyone had submitted their results. (Does anyone here use PGP who can vouch for this?) How about it? Anyone game? If enough people are interested in participating in these experiments, I'll look into drawing up some basic protocols to make sure the experiment is conducted fairly and properly. I'd welcome comments. And as for those of you who'd like anonymity - people can choose to be anonymous if they like, just like the UT skeptic site. I would like to be able to give people ID numbers though, like in the former RV unit. This will allow us to do experiments and better analysis later, e.g. focusing in on those people who seem to show a special talent at this, and perhaps working with them separately. It also allows us to refer to people individually without naming them, e.g. "viewers #4, #7 and #8 seem to have some very significant scores, obtaining a fairly consistent 60% accuracy rate. Viewers #1, #2 and #6 are getting ambiguous scores of 53%, while viewers #3, #5 and #9 are getting scores of between 48-52%." But why black and red cards? Because it should be an easy enough experiment to run, and the results shouldn't be too ambiguous. If the averages all point to a sum of 48-52%, with no exceptions, we can rule out that psi has been sufficiently demonstrated.. but that doesn't necessarily mean psi won't work in a different situation or different experiment, etc. It just means we wouldn't of had luck demonstrating it in this experiment. And if it shows a higher score than, say, 55% consistently? Well, I'm be blown away by it :) But I would encourage others to do similar experiments. I wouldn't want people to take my word for it. I'd welcome other people running experiments of their own, which they're in charge of and can be confident of the results of. Or perhaps we can change Experiment Managers after a certain number of trials, and someone else gets to randomise their cards, type it up, encrypt it, post it, etc. Any comments or suggestions on this idea would be welcome. Anyone interested? Would anyone like to take part? Anyone got any comments or ideas they'd like to share on this idea? (Note to Viewers: Would this kind of test be in the domain of Associative Remote Viewing? My point of view is that people should be allowed to use whatever methods they like. The interest will probably be on those who are scoring the highest marks, and from a scientific point of view, method is not important: results are. People will probably be monitoring those who are scoring continuously higher than 50%, and whatever form of psi is being used seems here to be unimportant, although declaring what method they are using might be interesting for those of us who are monitoring. Comments, suggestions anyone?) Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
President Clinton, Shelley and Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/165)
12:13:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Re: [stargate] President Clinton, Shelley and Gene End of steave list your acting like a brutalik censor mailing should be owned by their members we arnt in miletry its the internet Eyal stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/166)
12:13:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Re: [stargate] Red and Black Cards please remove me thanks stargate : Message: [stargate]
"China's Super Psychics"
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/167)
12:13:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Howdy Stargators, I just got on this list in the last couple of days so it may be that the aforementioned book by Paul Dong and Thomas Raffill has already been discussed... If it has not, I'm curious about the thoughts of any others who have read this. (ISBN 1569247153, Marlowe, 1997, $12.95) From the back cover: "China's vast population, encouraged by a government that assiduously promotes psychic research, has developed an unusually high percentage of practitioners with psychic abilities. It is estimated that China now has five thousand psychic children, three to five-hundred psychic adults, and more than thirty super psychics who can be categorized in three essential ways: Healing Psychics (including cancer and AIDS healing) Predictive Psychics (able to envision the past and future) Regular Psychics (includes the ability, for example, to stop running carrs, walk through walls, change colors and molecular structures; it includes also telekinesis and unobservable flight.) These powers naturally came to the attention of the Chinese government, who wish to exploit psychic energy for military purposes." Regards, TB stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Military CRV Manual Online
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/168)
12:14:07
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
>As one who is a great believer in the ability of people to train >themselves, and as one who has had up to Stage 4 training with Paul, I >can say that if I had had the manual I would have 'gone it alone' and >as a result would have missed a whole world of information that is >just not present in the manual. Hi Shelia, Thank you for your thoughtful post. I am glad that the CRV Manual is finally online. If anything, I think it has reassured me a little on CRV and convinces me that training is probably a good idea But I am VERY glad it IS online. At least I had a rough idea of what CRV is about now, and have a good idea of what I'll be paying for. I'm a "try before you buy" kind of person, or at least, a "show me before I buy" person :) I think three things would convince me to pay for RV training (IF I could afford it): (a) knowing what I was paying for (which I now do, thanks to the manual being online - - PJ has been ever-lasting thanks :) (b) seeing example sessions and good recommendations so I know what the training and teacher are like (recommendations from friends are always helpful if you're not sure what you're getting yourself into..), and (c) Seeing a demonstration - "try before you buy." This is the one thing I'm still waiting for. Hopefully, if the Red and Black Card Test/Binary Test idea picks up, is workable, and enough people show an interest to make it worthwhile, it won't be long before I get a chance to see a test being performed. Then I'd be prepared to fork out my cash and get the professional tutoring. The CRV Manual has reassured me that professional training is important, the kind of reassurance that I needed. I wasn't convinced until now that CRV could not be lead from a manual. Even now, I think, given enough practice, it's still possible to learn CRV from the manual, albeit very difficultly.. >If you are in the position of having to forgo training at present, I >would encourage you to go to PJ's site and scour all the >additional information available there in the archives to add to >the information in the manual. I would have to agree with this. From my point of view, it was always the case I knew what to do, what not to do, what to look out for, what to avoid, what I should expect, what the limits were, what the weaknesses were, etc.. just.. not HOW to do it! :-) The CRV Manual answers that one, final, nagging question. Even if it does take a bit of work to understand it in places ;-) PJ's Viewer List was an invaluable tool (here in the UK that means "more than just valuable", BTW), and with the publication of the CRV Manual, I expect there would have been a barrage of new posts from new CRVrs who are manual-trained.. or are being manual-trained and need some help.. :) >Pay particular attention to what Paul, Gene, Joe, and Lyn have to say >in response to questions, and continue to ask your questions here. >Note that even though PJ has discontinued her public work re: RV, she >is continuing her training with Lyn. She's helped us so much in moderating a forum where everyone can develop their CRV skills, that I think it's only fair we give her the time to develop her own skills now. But she'll be missed. >Thanks to Steve, the process is ongoing. Well I try my best, even though my stubborn "no moderating posts" policy occassionally causes problems.. :-) I think there may be a temptation when moderating posts, to get into a situation, where you are making judgements on what is an appropriate or non-appropriate post, though your opinions might disagree with other people's. And if you're not sure if a post is appropriate, and you have high traffic, it might be tempting to put it to one side 'for now', and then just never get around to it again, as you start dealing with lots of other peoples you have to accept/refuse, accept/refuse, accept/refuse.. etc. I would like to try and keep this list open and unmoderated for as long as possible, and only made requests for topics to end if I think some list members are straying from discussion about serious psi/rv discussion. Not only does that save me from a lot of bother, but it means the list is somewhat more liberal, even if that makes it a little less secure. But after having a 'secure' list for over a year, I thought it would be interesting to try cracking open the floodgates a little, and allowing people to exercise their good judgement in deciding if their post is acceptable or not. I'll only complain if I think things are straying too far (such as the recently shot-down topic..) Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
President Clinton, Shelley and Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/169)
12:14:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Ditto from me Steve....open forums are just that...opportunities to express ideas in an open manner....Unsubscribe me... BTW...Shelly...lets continue this face off privately...I am at CURRAN2016@... have much more in common than most of the net believe... Gene... It's been nice Stargate...sorry if I offended your sensibilities... stargate : Message: [stargate]
Open Forums and Larger Universe
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/170)
12:14:41
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
>Ditto from me Steve....open forums are just that...opportunities to express >ideas in an open manner....Unsubscribe me... Gene, You should have been at Larger Universe if you want to see "free and open debate." Dozens of people digging at each other, making constant insults and personal threats, being rude and offensive, hurting people's feelings, and frightening off a lot of people. If you want a list where there are no rules, where people can insult others freely, be downright rude, and talk about everything from psi to UFOs, to alien abductions, government conspiracies, paranoia, big foot, Yeti, ghosts, .. go ahead and unsubscribe. This list *does* have boundaries: that is: polite and intelligent debate, not down-and-dirty insults. Am I alone in thinking this? Do people really want a free-for-all flamefest mailing list with no boundaries? Or would people rather I only limit posts that are off-topic or offensive? Because that's all I've been doing. Trying to keep things stable, friendly, and intelligent. I do not operate a moderated board. I let posts through. But when people like you and Shelley start insulting each other in public, talking about sex scandels etc.. on what is supposed to be a list about psychic functioning and professional remote-viewing procedures and methodologies, scientific protocols, etc.. it affects the entire list. I have received quite a few emails from people who have been upset by all this already. Does anyone here remember Larger Universe's BBS? It turned into a grave yard and was closed down because of heavy and constant abuse. It was a "free board." No rules. It died because of insults and abuse. Do you really want a list where people can freely and willingly insult others? That's not intelligent debate. Or where the signal-to- noise ratio is about 5:1? Then try a Usenet newsgroup. If you do, perhaps you should leave. I do not want to be seen running a BBS like that. I want this to be a professional forum for serious, intelligent, adult discussion on psi and RV topics. I would hope I'm not alone in that opinion. Comments are welcome at the Open Chat BBS, but *please* le's try and get back on-topic folks? Open Chat BBS: Http://www.progressiveweb.net/local-cgi-bin/openchat.pl Regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
The CRV manual!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/171)
12:15:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000101-000200---------
Hi Darryl! >I can say that I am more than happy to see the CRV manual online where it >should have been at laest a year ago. But I would like to say to those who >are seeing it for the first time, that You will still need help and teaching >from those who have been doing this for years. After reading it, I have to say I agree with you completely. The manual uses very technical language, and there was more than a few times I felt like turning around and asking "how do I do this part..? Do I learn this in stages?", only.. no teacher was standing behind me :) I think the publication of this manual will, in anything, *encourage* people to seek training - because they know what they'll be buying, and why the training is important, after reading/skimming through the manual. >I have been taught basic CRV, >and have had the manual for nearly a year now, but still have hundreds of >questions that unfurl the more you practice. But don't be put off, the most >important things are structure and practice. I'm hoping, if things get back to normal around here, that people will be able to ask structure-related questions and seek half the answers they need to "learn" CRV, from this list. Although I by no means expect the CRV manual or an email group to "replace" professional training; I believe that if anything, it will encourage more people to seek training, now fully aware that learning it from a manual is neigh-on impossible, certainly very tough. >The best thing the manual can >achieve are stopping some of the fraudulent people starting to take over the >RV field. Here's hoping! Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
The CRV manual!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/172)
12:15:15
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I can say that I am more than happy to see the CRV manual online where it should have been at laest a year ago. But I would like to say to those who are seeing it for the first time, that You will still need help and teaching from those who have been doing this for years. I have been taught basic CRV, and have had the manual for nearly a year now, but still have hundreds of questions that unfurl the more you practice. But don't be put off, the most important things are structure and practice. The best thing the manual can achieve are stopping some of the fraudulent people starting to take over the RV field. All the best... Darryl We came... We saw... We wrote a session summery... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
"China's Super Psychics"
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/173)
12:15:24
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>I just got on this list in the last couple of days so it may be that the >aforementioned book by Paul Dong and Thomas Raffill has already been >discussed... If it has not, I'm curious about the thoughts of any others >who have read this. (ISBN 1569247153, Marlowe, 1997, $12.95) > >>From the back cover: Hello, I just saw that Ingo Swann reviewed this book on his Web-site. You can check it out at: http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/9-ChinaPsychics.html Frank V stargate : Message: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/174)
12:15:40
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[stargate] Signal direction Dipstick question. You'll get used to them folks.... Never one to make my own life easy, I always thought the viewer sent their awareness _to_ the target to get the information, presumably as a result of the bilocation stuff I have heard mentioned. The CRV manual implies the information (signal) comes to the viewer. Could this be another reason for my wondrous "fubar" rate? In Friendship and Light. MaryD stargate : Message: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/175)
12:15:49
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[stargate] Red and Black Cards Dear Steve and List, An interesting idea, especially for this novice. I am interested! Oddly, I've been playing a similar game with myself lately with a software CD called Avery Cardoza's "Casino". In it is a roulette game which basically mimics the real thing. I stink at the numbers part of this game, I can assure you. One day however, I was astounded by how many times I was able to "hit" with betting the color black vs. the color red. (I almost wrote Cardoza himself to ask if the software is 'fixed'!) Here is a question to put in the back of your mind regarding red vs black, at least in terms of roulette...do you suppose that because black attracts, and keeps HEAT that this would be why the blacks overwhemingly appeared as I mock-played? With cards, it would be different, yes? At any rate, I'm still testing this out....perhaps I can give more feedback as I progress. Best to all, Laura stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/176)
12:15:59
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Re: [stargate] Signal direction Actually, Mary, this is interesting as I'd never given "travel" much thought when it comes to doing this. For me the senses of space and distance disappear and are irrelevant. There is simply a tuning into "something" which is neither near nor far. I've heard CRV' ers refer to the "signal line", a metaphor which, to me, suggests distance. I imagine pluggin myself into a cable which feeds me a signal from some distant point. I like the metaphor but it's not my experience. I don't know if your thinking that the viewers "send" their awareness somewhere could have anything to do with the viewing anomalies you've been experienceing lately. After all, each of us has to have _some_ kind of simplistic model to explain something which is probably ineffable. No matter how we conceptualize it (within limits, I suppose), it works. May as well agree with Liam that it's magic. It's as good as any other theory. :<) By the way, never heard a "dipstick question" from you on VWR. Don't expect to encounter them here either. >Dipstick question. You'll get used to them folks.... > >Never one to make my own life easy, I always thought the viewer sent their >awareness _to_ the target to get the information, presumably as a result of >the bilocation stuff I have heard mentioned. The CRV manual implies the >information (signal) comes to the viewer. > >Could this be another reason for my wondrous "fubar" rate? > >In Friendship and Light. MaryD Rick Stordeur Vancouver Island stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/177)
12:16:12
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An interesting aside: When my children were young (ages 10-12) I did an experiment with them to see if they could "feel" color. I placed a series of 8 different colored cards face down and asked them to hold there hand over each one and tell me what color it felt like. I cued them that the greens to blues and violets felt cooler than the yellows, oranges, reds. They all (my neice also participated) had high hit rates of 70-80% on three runs each. They being young and enthusiastic and having been told by me that it was possible to feel color did not approach the task with any skepticism and I believe that partially explained their success rates. (By the way, I was blind to which color was where in the sequence). Just a fun thing to try. Shelia stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/178)
12:16:21
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Having experience two aspect of RV...TDS and Workhop RV Healing, I have "felt" a type of spatial sense. In the Workshop scenario I had an impulse to "go somewhere" instead of maintaning the Workshop RV static type movement in having someone enter my space. In TDS RV The images pops and hovers slightly above and outside my head. I kind of envision this as an extroverting experience. In the Workshop RV, I am "looking at the inside of the mind." Biofeedback meditation provides even more of inner spatial field more so than the above. There I learn what it is to experience fleeting images with the intention of "grabbing it" before it evanesce, but way inside my head. One of my favorite exercises is visualizing. My objective is to find out the qualitative difference of imagination vs. memory vs. flash of insight. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Military CRV Manual Online
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/179)
12:16:43
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> Pay particular attention to what Paul, Gene, Joe, and Lyn have to say > in response to questions, and continue to ask your questions here. > Note that even though PJ has discontinued her public work re: RV, she > is continuing her training with Lyn. > Thanks to Steve, the process is ongoing. > Shelia I completely agree. The day before I started Paul's course, Courtney Brown put his SRV manual on the web and I said "Do what ????". Imagine my surprise when CRV turned out so similar, but with the added info and insight obtained in class. Yeah, even with all the info available thanks to PJ's site and all the contributers I think that some kind of personal instruction from an experienced person is invaluable.....especially for us less talented folk. I would think that there ought to be a way/market/opportunity for individualized classes/guidence/evaluation for those who start with the manual and cannot spend the time away from home or bigger dollar commitment. Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
President Clinton, Shelley and Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/180)
12:16:57
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Sorry to loose 2 interesting and valuable members of the group. Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/181)
12:17:07
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Mary D lol which end of the pencil writes? Picture a fisherman wetting his line. The fish strikes the hook. Who has hooked whom? ;) The 'signal' line is already in existence. We access it. There is no to and fro in actuality, imho. Whether it extends itself in space, or in time, we just 'tap' into it. We will let the physicists amongst us do the explaining as to who holds the hook and who bites it. lol Bevy J http://www.slipstrym.com/uspsisquad/ http://www.slipstrym.com/remote-viewing stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/182)
12:17:22
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Hello, My 14 year old son and I have frequently played a game suggested by Rob Abbot where you place 5 cards in a tableau and one turns his back and the other visualizes which card hes thinking about. My son and I both scored with p values < .01, but he was usually < .00001 using the binomial theorem for stats. Also if the sender "gazzed" at the card like in mirror gazzing "burning" in the position it got higher p values. If we used colors instead of postition to identify the cards the pvalues dropped to almost insignificant. So for us the color was not as strong a signal as was the relative position in the tableau. Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/183)
12:17:42
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Hello Electrix, John Grimes posted on psi list one time a report from a schiztophrenic who grew up with such severe delusions that he could not tell reality from imagination. However, he was able to finally screen his hallucinations by testing there content for stability and something else he did not clarify to well. This way he taught himself to functiontion in the normal world, AND ALSO he found that a third class of object exhisted the precongnitive vision. This was qualitatively different from hallucinations and from reality. It was much more stable and unchangeable than imagination, but not as much as reality. I am still trying to find him to get more incite into this fascinating screening process, which is at the heart of determining a true signal from noise. Bill Pendergrass stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/184)
12:17:52
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> My 14 year old son and I have frequently played a game suggested by Rob >Abbot where you place 5 cards in a tableau and one turns his back and >the other visualizes which card hes thinking about. My son and I both >scored with p values < .01, but he was usually < .00001 using the >binomial theorem for stats. Also if the sender "gazzed" at the card like >in mirror gazzing "burning" in the position it got higher p values. If >we used colors instead of postition to identify the cards the pvalues >dropped to almost insignificant. So for us the color was not as strong a >signal as was the relative position in the tableau. Thanks for sharing that here, Bill. I'll get to your own experiment a little further down this post. I just wanted to make a few statements re: red and black cards first, to explain why I was interested in this kind of test. I based my own comments about colours on something that LynB said on the Art Bell show near to the beginning of the show (I know it was in the first hour, I believe the first 30 minutes.) Lyn mentioned he'd been doing an experiment involving red and black cards, and I'm sure the number he mentioned was 58.3% The amount of times I've re-listened to that Art Bell show! (..Mostly because only about 10% of his shows are credible, if that.. with 90% gone, it's either listen to repeats all the time, or tune into his usual array of sensationalism and fear-mongering to kill time..) Re: Your own experiment. I'm not sure I completely understand. Perhaps I'm just being a dumb Englishman and not listening/ reading closely enough.. ;-) What's a "tableau"? I'm sorry if this sounds like a dumb question - I've -heard- the word before, but don't know what it means or is refers to. Sorry. Perhaps it's an American/English cultural difference of some kind? Could you tell me a little more about this experiment? Was the name of the game to guess the colour, a symbol on the card? Perhaps if I knew what a tableau was, I'd have my answer. So, what's a tableau, Bill? Over to you! :) Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Summerys and profiles!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/185)
12:18:05
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I'm hoping some of you long time viewers can help me out with a few questions. i have until recently always written a session summery, and a very basic profile just listing all the corrects against all the non-corrects. I have seen the profile on pj's site and decided to give it a try, BUt it was real hard, I could not decide where to put things like dimentional data. My sessions contain clusters like: layered, structured, beams, supports. Very solid, thick, surface, floor. how do I break this down for profileing. Do I break it down? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as at the moment I am finding profileing harder than learning Rv itself. All the best... Darryl We came... We saw... We wrote a session summery... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Summerys and profiles!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/186)
12:18:52
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Darryl-- At 11:09 AM 7/8/98 +0100, you wrote: >I'm hoping some of you long time viewers can help me out with a few >questions. i have until recently always written a session summery, and a >very basic profile just listing all the corrects against all the >non-corrects. I have seen the profile on pj's site and decided to give it a >try, BUt it was real hard, I could not decide where to put things like >dimentional data. My sessions contain clusters like: The session profiling you find on PJ's site is not something we did at the RV unit, but rather something Lyn Buchanan later developed as a way of making it possible to create data-bases to help track viewer performance. As such it is very useful, and you are certainly free to try it. I recommend to my students, however, that they NOT get involved in it until they are well advanced--not because it isn't useful, but because I think it gets in the way of learning to RV. It's hard enough to get around to doing the session. When confronted with the further drudgery of analyzing it all and breaking it down into various categories, you end up with two problems: 1) a great deal of inertia to overcome and a procedure that takes a lot of the "fun" out of RV; and 2) too much of an emphasis on analysis, when the whole idea is to get AWAY from analysis. This is not meant as a criticism of Lyn, merely an explication of my own assessment of this feature. I'd say I hope that helps, but it probably doesn't ;-) Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/187)
12:19:04
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Bevy-- At 04:00 AM 7/7/98 EDT, you wrote: > The 'signal' line is already in existence. We access it. There is no to and >fro in actuality, imho. Whether it extends itself in space, or in time, we >just 'tap' into it. > We will let the physicists amongst us do the explaining as to who holds the >hook and who bites it. Cleverly put! I suspect the answer is somewhere in the neigborhood of where you've placed it. Ingo theory has it "coming to" you, whatever that means, but I think your expressions here are close to capturing the essence of what he meant by it! Enjoy, Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
CRV Stage 5 queries!!!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/188)
12:19:14
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Darryl-- At 10:08 AM 7/6/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi paul Thank for the help. I am using Thge classic style from The CRV >(Coordinate) manual that I have had for a while. But as you know a manual >does not tell you everything. Am I right in assuming that it is not >necasarry to use stage 5 in all sessions and that you can skip from 4 to 6. Exactly right! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/189)
12:19:24
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Hi Steve, I'd be happy to explain the experiment a little further. It's not mine though its Rob Abbott a psychic in Portland, Ore. He said this was the easiest way he knew for beginners to demonstrate psi. And it certainly was for us. you place 4-5 cards in a geometrical arrangement. x x x x x for instance. then one partner turns his back closes his eyes and on signal thinks of NOTHING. The other partner focuses 100% of his intenstion on one of the 5 cards at the same time he says "blank your mind" ( its hard to keep a blank mind for to long even for Americans). The "receiver" then turns back and points to the correct card. You can use the bionmial theorem for calculating your probability. The sender is just as important as the receiver. My Son got the first 5 trials right and a longer series gave very small p vales (< .00001 that it was chance). I was a little worse p<.01-.001. Now repeating the experiment with red and black playing cards and cueing on color only gave worse results p<.05 at best. Cueing on numbers alone was also bad, whether or not it was a face cards gave intermediate results. So it seemed that geometrical position was an easier thing to cue psi with than color to us. Of course I did not try feeling the colors as temperature variations as Sheila suggested, and color differences on playing cards are not as extreme as one might wish, but I think there is some basis for thinking geometry is an easier cue than color. Yours Warmly, Bill Pendergrass Is that clear now Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/190)
12:19:48
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That is interesting...hopefully John gets on this line so that I can bug him to post the report again. I find this area to be very key in determining signal from noise. As a musician, I remember having to learn scales, intervals and certain tones. That part of my "hearing" at first wasn't there. So I had to learn how to listen to tones in my head to differentiate. I was able to establish relative pitch, although I understand some people are able to attain perfect pitch. This would imply that if we can attain command of frequency sound vibration by extended our Musical Hearing perception....perhaps we are not too far in determining Image Visual vibration by extending our Visual Image perception potential. I am exploring... who knows. electrix Bill Pendergrass wrote: > Hello Electrix, > > John Grimes posted on psi list one time a report from a schiztophrenic > who grew up with such severe delusions that he could not tell reality > from imagination. However, he was able to finally screen his > hallucinations by testing there content for stability and something else stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/191)
12:19:58
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Dear Electrix, the music analogy sounds quite cogent, but you lost me with that last bit. Could you expand on it . Also the self healed schizophrenic said that stability of a vision was not duration, but rather changeability. REmember in a dream looking at your dream watch. the face will always change and be nonsense, never stable. But true psychic visions, were essentially unchangeable for as long as they lasted. Ring any bells you RVers? I would love to hear him expand on that concept, and also on the effect of various treatments and drugs on the psychic as opposed to the imaginary visions. Bill Pendergrass stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/192)
12:20:07
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Hi Bill! >Is that clear now Steve. Yes thanks, I understand now :) I know now what you mean by "position", and I think that psi is probably better at doing certain things better than others, or at least.. we're better at interpreting/receiving/understanding psi data better on certain assignments then others, such as pointing to a correct card - identifying by position - than by, say, choosing the right colour between red/black. But I also had another reason for proposing the red/black card experiment/ test, and that is I would like to construct some clear, straightforward, black-and-white demonstration/test/measurement of psi, that can be performed online and in which everyone can participate. Red/black would seem to be a simple and effective way of testing psi, which shouldbe useful/interesting *whatever* "side of the fence" people happen to be on. Skeptics get to monitor a mini "test for psi", though I'd hope skeptics would not base their entire belief/disbelief in psi on one online experiment :) And supporters (and open-minded skeptics who become convinced/ supportive of psi through all this), get to see the difference between chance vs. actual accuracy in the experiments. I've ever heard statistics of 25%, 30%, 33%, 35%, 40%, 50%, 75%, 85%, 100% (and probably a few I've missed) referred to as "the accuracy of remote- viewing." To make things even MORE confusing, the particular answer you choose for accuracy depends on how you wish to view the results. (e.g. is it 35% accuracy overall, or just 70% accurate, half the time? etc. etc. ad infinitum) I think, for skeptics and supporters alike, a way to reliably measure and test for psi, in a way we can all participate and be involved with, wouldbe very beneficial. An online system to explore the boundaries, abilities, weaknesses and short-comings of psi, I believe, would be useful and interesting, whatever 'side of the fence' you happen to be on. Would anyone be interested in taking part in such a 'exploring the boundaries of psi' online test? Thanks for your contributions, Bill. I'll certainly be considering everyone's ideas about how we could do this, and if there's enough support for the idea of some kind of online testing system, I'll get to work on setting one up, in which we can all be involved, at each step of the way. But of course, it depends how interested people are in the idea first. Anyone interested out there? Or even intrigued? :-) Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/193)
12:20:19
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To expand on it would be pretentious of me since I am still a baby crawling in imagery. But I have notice that their is a difference between fleeting images (as in observing images during biofeedback) and let's say picture memories (when someone ask to remember something recently). For lack of better word...one seems to be "lighter" the other more "concrete"...or more, let's say "present." I am assuming there is some kind of frequency level resonation to these imagery. The reason the ear can perceive different tones is because they are resonating at a certain frequency level. Middle tone "A" is vibrating at a 440Hz. or there abouts (if my memory serves me right). Dreams, on the other hand, is a type of memory which has the quality of etherial...imagination. Turns out that I am also a natural artist (although, I have abandon exercising that aspect of me). But in developing a painting, I would imagine scenes , scenarios...which remind me of dreaming. Come to think of it, one of my favorite painters is Salvador Dali. He used hypnogogic state to paint some of his masterpieces. He would device a way of alerting him just when he was about to fall asleep and then visualize what he was about to paint. So, I think where I lost you is in the arbitrary assignment of frequency level to each mode of mental imagery. Presently, I don't think that kind of stuff can be measured. I can only go by "texture" at this point. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/194)
12:20:28
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Hello Steve, I'm definitely interested and would participate ( along with my more psychic son). The simpler the test the better, than statistics can be uesd to assess the results relative to chance. Terms like 25% , 50%, 75% etc. don't mean much statistically. Even 1% success could be way above chance and 95% could be only chance depending on the way the experiment is set up and the number of possible answers. Also you need almost immediate feedback to keep the players going, and computation of odds. Also, a comparison of scores with other RVers, and psychics might be challenging. It could be called "Beat the Psychic--challenge". Hey I'd even donate in on the winning pot! Good Ideas in my book, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/195)
12:20:43
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Hello Bevy, I owe you an e-mail, I believe...but I am getting swamped with mailing list communication, I am unable to get around to every posting. Each day, it seems acknowledgements fall behind. I have Steve to blame for my resurgent activity in posting..rats! I was suppose to be on a sabbath. I sent for your Correspondence kit just the other day. I also listen to your interview at Sightings. Your views align very well with mine regarding ESP. Through out these years I have developed ideas that are in tangent with things you said in the interview. It is always great to hear that I am not the only looney in town, LOL! So, I am looking forward in exploring the path you have already set. A friend of mine once did a Psychometric reading on me. I was astounded at what he could tell about me from holding my watch. He dipped in the present (about a certain person in my family and my feeling and relationship with her) and then told me about my future. Although, I can't say it was a concrete (it was somewhat general) future reading, I can say that what came to pass was not so far off. Of course, at the other end of the skeptic stick, we can say it was self-prophecy...but no doubt, he had me convinced that our vibration embeds itself in what we wear. The signal direction...logically stated, would necessarily have to be static. Of course all this is irrelevant to the results and more of interest to anatonomist. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/196)
12:20:53
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lol the color-sensing experiments was one of the basic skills being taught by the Soviets where I came in in their training processes. It is still one of the mainstays in thepractical training process of PSI we use, as it is a 'doorway' to the extended sense of touch.An extended version of this color experiment is in my next book as well. Aries Productions has just completed a new 25 card Color-sensing Deck which is available from Aries, Inc. Dept. L, POB 29396, St. Louis, Mo. 63126 USA at $6.50 plus $1.75 postage US, $3 foreign. for these very interesting experiments. Working with children is rewarding as they tend to DO what you tell them they can do. It is best to explain that it is merely a game, however, for obvious reaons. Many who are working on developing the PSI abilities from telepathy and psychic touch to remote viewing can work with a child quite easily. Keeping it on a 'game' footing helps to allow them to regard the 'games' as normal. Having done this many years ago, I can verify that it works very well done in this way. Bevy J U.S. Psi Squad stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/197)
12:21:06
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imho working the red/black online might be a big bite for some people. It is an extremely efficient way of learning touch-sensing when you use an ordinary deck but remove all the Court cards. (they include yellow too) When in my learning phase in the early 60's I kept a deck on the bedside table and made myself 'do' ten every night. The experiment you are proposing here is similar to one of Rhine's where the shuffled symbol deck he used (confusing as 2 of the figures are composed of right angles) was to be predicted, as it would appear in order. I think some experiment involving red/black might work on the Stargate List, but I think the one you have had in mind is probably a bit advanced for most. Why not just start with 5 of them, and go from there? Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/198)
12:21:39
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Thank you Paul. I appreciate your comments. Although there are numerous 'ideas' and 'conclusions' about the 'signal line' I believe that my explanation is the most realistic. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/199)
12:21:51
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owing me a letter is not a big problem. Sometimes I am offline for days myself. By the Way, it is not 'vibrations' that affect what we use, wear, hold, it is the energies of our atomic structure. you'll find out a lot of that when you get your Course. :) Everything is energy, Einstein said that and he was right. And energies do 'throw off ' or radiate and affect other types of energy, and these throwoffs are what affect and interpentrate the supposed 'solids' around us, rocks, soil, etc.' and our own non-solid bodies throw off the same, which is captured 'inflight' so to speak, in these things we use, wear and hold. This is why your ring can provide solid information about you to a touch sensitive. Or a rock can provide information about seismic events in its former position in space and time. Or as in one of our current experiments, a dinosaur bone can hold the exact appearance, habits and living routines of its former owner...to be relayed to a remote viewing experimenter and/or touch sensitive. If you want to Post any of this on Stargate, feel free. Glad you ordered the Course. It's basic stuff. Have fun with it and let it take you wherever you want to go with this. After you learn what it teaches, just go on....and on...for this journey has no ending, there is always something else to study and learn. I've been on this journey for 36 years and no end in sight.... lol. ;) Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Colored cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/200)
12:22:02
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Hello Bevy! I will soon be getting your colored cards from your starter kit and will be anxious to compute stats on that method vs the placement method. I'll feed back, Perhaps Electrix will also. Best Regards, Bill

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Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #2. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 101. Last Message Number: 200
First Message Date: June 30, 1998. Last Message Date: July 8, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000101-000200.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)

Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #3. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 201. Last Message Number: 300
First Message Date: July 8, 1998. Last Message Date: July 11, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000201-000300.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



BEGIN ARCHIVE BLOCK #3.

stargate : Message: [stargate] 
MAGNETIC FIELDS
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/201)
12:23:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Hello, This is my first posting to this list so here goes: I suffer from tinnitus, so to see if there is any problem with my ears my consultant booked me in for an MRI scan. When I got near to the appointment (last Tues afternoon), I thought 'Here's an experiment just asking for it!'. So I decided that I'd try rv'ing when the scan was actually taking place (I'm always on the lookout for experiments). As well as participating in target viewing on a number of web-sites, I'm in email contact with a guy in Israel, and we send each other targets (.jpg file nos.) followed up by session summaries and then the actual .jpg file and comments; about 3 times a week. So, when the scanner was up and running (very noisy too), I concentrated on the latest target number and tried to rv it. BTW I don't follow any particular protocol, I just close my eyes, try to relax, think about the code no., and try to keep my conscious mind from 'interfering'. I then wait for impressions, which may come by way of visuals (liberally sprinkled with AOLs of course :-/), tactiles, emotions/feelings etc...as you all know. I know I have a lot to learn, and could do with structuring my sessions somewhat......but we have had some success, enough to convince me that rv really happens. Well, I was fed to the 'doughnut', and told to keep perfectly still and try to relax. (Obviously total relaxation is a bit of a 'no-no' in such a situation; especially when there's always the thought that the scan could reveal something drastically wrong....) I must admit it felt very different, although that could have been because I was expecting it to. It felt as if my mind was much more 'open', hard to describe really. No, I didn't get a direct hit :-(, and perhaps not even qualified for a 'near-miss' on the UT site, but I got a great deal of basic information which appeared in the .jpg picture. The sheer *amount* of information coming in impressed me......my problem was interpreting it. The only other time I've had such an over-abundance of data was when I tried a 'beaconing' target on the UT site. Thought I would share this, because what I really want to know is whether anyone has done any research, or read anything anywhere about the affect that magnetic fields may have on performance re rv... or psi in general. BTW my friend said that he was impressed, (which made me feel good :-) ), and he wants to know how I did it; as all I said was that I tried an experiment. I've now got to tell him that it's unrepeatable...hopefully. Thanks for reading this. -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: [stargate]
Sony psi research closed down
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/202)
12:24:06
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Everyone, I thought you might find this interesting. Posted to PJ's Psi List, which after much email pressure, is still alive! I believe the Viewer List has closed down, however. -- South China Morning Post Internet Edition Tuesday July 7, 1998 Japan Sony sees sense to discontinue ESP research BENJAMIN FULFORD in Tokyo Japan's Sony Corporation says it has proved extra-sensory perception exists - but has closed down its ESP research facility because there did not seem to be any way to turn the knowledge into marketable products. Sony had a team of five researchers, who spent seven years inviting people who claimed to have psychic powers into their laboratories for a series of scientific tests to see if they really did have these powers, company spokesman Masanobu Sakaguchi said. "We found out experimentally that yes, ESP exists, but that any practical application of this knowledge is not likely in the foreseeable future," he said. Mr Sakaguchi said a typical experiment involved having a qi gong practitioner put qi, or spiritual energy, into a glass of water and then having another practitioner detect which glass contained the qi. "They were right 70 per cent of the time, and if it was random guessing they would have been right only 50 per cent of the time," he said. The experiments were repeated so often that any chances of a statistical fluke were ruled out, he said. Other experiments produced similar results for things like discerning hidden objects and detecting colours without looking, he said. "We were unable to detect qi with any machine; it seems only people can detect it," he said. Possibilities like packing qi gong energy in batteries were thus too remote to justify more research, he said. Masaru Ibuga, one of Sony's founders, set up the ESP research centre in 1991 after he became interested in qi gong and other unexplained aspects of Chinese medicine. His death this year may be the real reason the research was discontinued. --end-- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
MAGNETIC FIELDS
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/203)
12:24:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
...my consultant booked me in for an MRI scan. When I got near to the >appointment (last Tues afternoon), I thought 'Here's an experiment just >asking for it!'. So I decided that I'd try rv'ing when the scan was >actually taking place (I'm always on the lookout for experiments)... Hi Glynn, Quite creative and resourceful of you to think of incorporating rv'ing during an MRI scan. I don't really know much about the studies regarding the effect of magnetic fields on psi (I'm sure someone else on the list will address this), but I wonder whether having to concentrate intently on something else than the MRI and implications, where you forced yourself to block out distractions helped you to access the target. Regards, Roger stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sony psi research closed down
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/204)
12:24:35
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Hi Steve, It seems incredible to me that the conclusion was that no practicale applications were possible. Is this another cover up denouncing psi so that the practical applications go underground. Surely, as the many RV groups have found, psi even at a low level can aid in finding Oil, people, etc. A very bizzare conclusion! Puzzeled in Seattle, Bill Pendergrass stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
MAGNETIC FIELDS
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/205)
12:24:45
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Hello Glyn, I don't know whether I should mention this but a very good friend of mine, who has since left the country claimed to have been part of a government black project to enhance psi with alternating EMF fields. She claims her nervous system was severely damaged when the black ops closed it down and left her abandoned. Was this true? I don't really know. I kind of doubt it, but her symptoms were those of someone suffering from damage from extremely high EMF fields. She said it did work BTW. I know nothing more about her claimed experiment. Any black op people out there, stay away or I'll oscillate your fields! Dr Barry Taff who has a tape on both Art Bell and Jeff Renses (sightings on the radio show realaudio archives) claims that he also participated in a similar effort which was abandoned because of secondary damage. However, he mentioned no serious injuries. Still it makes one really wonder. Barry also said it worked but was too dangerous. I think Dr TAff is pretty reliable, although he may be leaving things out. I don't thing he made things up for the show. There is also evidence I've seen on Discovery Channel that stimulating the temporal lobes of the brain with an oscilating field of certain frequencies causes psi like effects. OOBE's, voices etc. although these investigators did not try to determine if these manifestations were truly psychic or simply hallucinations in fact claimed the opposite without any experiments. Sincerely, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/206)
12:25:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Aries Productions has just completed a new 25 card Color-sensing Deck which >is available from Aries, Inc. Dept. L, POB 29396, St. Louis, Mo. 63126 USA at >$6.50 plus $1.75 postage US, $3 foreign. for these very interesting >experiments. Hi Bevy, Thanks for this. Do you happen a have phone number for them handy? More info on what the deck is like would be nice too (are they just coloured cards? I'd think for a psi experiment, the fewer distractions on the card, the better, unless they are somehow supportive to a good psi result?) The name of the game here, so to speak, is to create what is supposed to be the most favourable conditions for psi, and then perform a simple test to measure chance vs. actual scores. Aside from 'proving psi' for skeptics, it would hopefully have the added bonus of allowing us to flesh out the weaknesses and strengths of psi through ongoing online experiments, in a way we can all be involved with. So in that way, these kinds of experiments, apart from hopefully being just "fun" and also easy to try, should be useful in, for skeptics, showing us whether psi can really be demonstrated to exist this way, and for the supporters or to-be-converted skeptics, it can allow us to probe the boundaries of psi through ongoing online experiments. Either way, whichever side of the fence people are on, I'd hope these kind of experiments would provide some useful information. >Working with children is rewarding as they tend to DO what you tell them they >can do. It is best to explain that it is merely a game, however, for obvious >reaons. > >Many who are working on developing the PSI abilities from telepathy and >psychic touch to remote viewing can work with a child quite easily. Keeping >it on a 'game' footing helps to allow them to regard the 'games' as normal. >Having done this many years ago, I can verify that it works very well done in >this way. That makes sense. I suppose children do not consider it yet to be an "unnatural" or impossible task at that age, plus they're not as concerned about statistics at that age as your average adult playing a similar game ;-) I'm sure this must help in developing psi skills. They just see it as a game, like you say, and they're too young to realise that something is going on that most adults in today's world would probably regard as "strange" or "spooky" if they were a witness or participant in it. Children on the other hand, probably don't see the 'big deal' over it. Bringing children up to regard this as a natural talent/ability can only be a Good Thing(tm) IMO. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/207)
12:25:13
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>I think some experiment involving red/black might work on the Stargate List, >but I think the one you have had in mind is probably a bit advanced for most. >Why not just start with 5 of them, and go from there? Hi Bevy, The idea of a red/black card test is still "in the works", so it's probably a good idea to regard all my ideas as "preliminary ideas." There are many questions I need answering before I can even begin this type of experiment, though, such as how many cards to do at a time, how often they should be changed, and any special procedure I have to do (memorise the order? Etc.) Since I've never done an online experiment like this before, I'd like to hear from anyone who has done this type of experiment in the past, especially if they've done a "remote" experiment like this before. How many cards per day or per week do you think would be a "not too high, not too low" number? It would be nice to collect as many stats as possible, but without giving people too much work to do, or - on the flipside - making it easy, such as one card per week, but then making realistic stat work impossible for at least six months or so. Apart from giving people a chance to brush up on their skills and to perhaps test different approaches, it's also a valuable chance to gather some statistics (and to test claims, such as that everyone has natural psi abilities, that some are better then others, etc.) An online experiment where everyone is given a unique number (and they can choose to tell people who they are only if they want to), allows us to see the differences between individuals, without anyone knowing who those individuals were (i.e. people would still be 'anonymous' in the sense they're only recognised by a number, unless they *want* to be identified.) Comments, suggestions, tips, ideas etc. are welcome on this idea! Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/208)
12:25:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
<< Comments, suggestions, tips, ideas etc. are welcome on this idea! Best always, Steve. >> Not gonna beat this horse .... rigamortize has already set in...but here are some "facts" you need to file away... 1. The good Psychic / Remote Viewer may start off with a good "score" but very quickly they will tire of this parlor trick and the scores will begin to look very wierd.... 2. Lets say that a viewer consistently hits 50/50..what does that mean....hmmmm....any comments.....Does it mean anything?..Well actually it does..it usually means the viewer/Psychic is playing with the mind of the tester... 3. Let;s say that a viewer gets a consistent 75% correct hits...then all of sudden they begin to get only 25% correct hits...What does that mean..?..Have they burned out?...Have they lost it?...hmmmmm???...Actually getting 75% correct hits is the same as getting 25% correct hits...ask any mathematician... 4. How do you plan on eliminating tester bias...I like red better than black...will my body temp, eyes, voice, brathing etc.etc change when I see a red card and will I "transmit" these to the Viewer/Psychic... 5. .......and besides card tricks are just that...card tricks...they prove nothing...if you want to test things on the net...do like Paul does...come up with some nifty targets and let people view them...then check the number of "rookie successes" with the number of "pros successes"...check the accuracy of hits...check similarity of responses...do people use the same words to describe same items...do they use these words every time this type of object is observed....see there are lots of ways to learn things about RV without resorting parlor games... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
MAGNETIC FIELDS
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/209)
12:25:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Glyn: Dr. Andrija Puharich did a great deal of work on PSI fields operating while in or out of magnetic fields. He used a Farraday (sp) cage for some of the experimental trials and found that magnetic fields did not seem to be a factor either for or against the operation and efficiency of PSI. (Dr. P. also found correlation between some phases of the lunar orb to create a small effect) (no comment) I think the scientific thinking on PSI and what does or does not affect is has definitely shifted away from any operation of EMF fields, of any sort. However, as I have always felt that the questions we cannot answer are to be contained in the field of physics and specifically quantum physics, it is interesting that even such early research tended to elminate thinking along EMF lines. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/210)
12:25:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Steve: The Aries Color-Sensing Deck is an original design of a brilliantly-colored triangular shape on a series of 25 white cards, done in red, yellow, green, blue and black. There is no 'color' on the back of the cards, which was one of the 'noise' factors with Rhine's Zener deck, which had white squiggles and a sort of starburst on blue on the reverse side (which led to a lot of people 'guessing' the wavy lines were on the opposite.) The other problem with it is that students in PSI often see only a portion of the design, and not the whole design. Since 2 of the zener cards were a square and a t-cross, both of which are composed of 4 right angles, students tended to confuse them continuously. Imho, this factor alone could conceivably do great damage to Rhine's mathematical statistics on his tests, as students saying 'cross' when the target was a square, may have been entirely correct but had to choose one of two 'possibles'. Given this problem, his percentages of 'right' choices may have been very much higher than they were. It is well known that persons studying telepathy and remote viewing do run into the 'not a clear picture' or 'not a whole scene' problem, sometimes for as long as a period of years until they get clear 'eyes' and can scan whole detailed targets. It took me a lot of time until that 'dark veil' problem, misting out some of the target, cleared up, and I am aware of students who may have found it a problem for even longer periods. Concentrated deliberate visualization and mnemonic exercises do help to clear it, too, but found that direction of attack only in the late 1960's. Hope this helps out. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Signal direction
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/211)
12:26:07
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Bill, I recall that he mentioned he had gotten a lot of his information from a person who had spent twenty years of research on hallucinations. I believe his name was Claude de Contrecoeur. Try http://dog.net.uk/claude/ The paper on controlled dreaming is very interesting.....Ken stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/212)
12:26:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
This is REALLY cool information...keep 'em coming. Thanks :-) electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/213)
12:26:35
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Gene, Welcome back to the list. Some thoughts on your reply to my red/black post.. >Not gonna beat this horse .... rigamortize has already set in...but here are >some "facts" you need to file away... > >1. The good Psychic / Remote Viewer may start off with a good "score" but very >quickly they will tire of this parlor trick and the scores will begin to look >very wierd.... If people tire of this "parlor trick", they should be all means quit while they're ahead. No one's forcing them to take these experiments, least of all me. It's all a matter of choice of participation. They can start whenever they like, leave whenever they like. Incidentally, did the viewers in the mil unit "start well, then it looked weird" in the laboratory? If not, I do not see why they'd be a difference in similar people's performance in an open setting, where if anything, they should be more relaxed and cosy, because they are doing it from the comfort of their own home? What causes you to suspect that a different setting will lead to dramaticly different experiments with dramatically different conclusions, that cause laboratories' findings to be unrepeatable? Also, why would any conditions be different outside the lab than in them? Because if we follow the basic rules of science in performing these experiments, (first be open and accountable) and we replicate the experiment in every possible conceivable way, then surely there would be very little difference between the two settings and experiments? And we should be able to replicate the findings, if the original findings were sound. That's the whole point here. That's why I'm proposing these experiments. Replicability. Trying to replicate findings, to confirm them. Apart from the viewers/psi-gifted individuals doing it from home and the amateur researchers doing it from home (hopefully replicating the experiment as closely as humanly possible), what reason is there to believe that there is anything different apart from the fact it is being done openly and publicly? I cannot see a reason why they'd be a significant impact on a good viewer's performance. If they have the ability, they have the ability. If they'd demonstrated it before, it should be demonstrable again in similar circumstances. >2. Lets say that a viewer consistently hits 50/50..what does that >mean....hmmmm....any comments.....Does it mean anything?..Well actually it >does..it usually means the viewer/Psychic is playing with the mind of the >tester... There is no scientific basis for that assertion ("playing" with the mind of the tester), that I'm aware of, (please do point out any studies that show this if there are any). I prefer to stick to pure, cold scientific investigation, which includes the accountability, peer-review and repeatability I talk about above. All forms of faith, except in scientific procedure, fly out of the window for me when I talk about performing a scientific experiment. Now of course, you may be right Gene! I'm not dismissing your suggestion. But until I see scientific evidence that I can validate and repeat, I must treat it as an opinion that I cannot prove. And I want to *validate and repeat* the assertation that psi results are higher than chance, which I have heard soo frequently. Lyn said he's been able to get 58.3% if I recall correctly on the red/black experiment. I'm trying to see if I can repeat those findings. For your information, behind this experiment, I am working on the following premise: - Results are equal or bordering on chance: Psi ability has not been unambiguously demonstrated to exist in this particular experiment. This cannot prove that psi does not exist, however. - Results are higher than chance: (56%+ for example) If no errors can be found, then psi ability most likely exists, probability increasing if there is a large run in experiments and the score remains above 50%. The two "conclusions" above will of course be declared invalid and the experiment re-started if methodological flaws are later found. >3. Let;s say that a viewer gets a consistent 75% correct hits...then all of >sudden they begin to get only 25% correct hits...What does that mean..?..Have >they burned out?...Have they lost it?...hmmmmm???...Actually getting 75% >correct hits is the same as getting 25% correct hits...ask any >mathematician... That would assume the existence of "negative psi," getting consistently WORSE than chance. I cannot logically reconcile how "negative psi" could exist, but for the purposes of this post I will talka bout my feelings as if it does. Personally, I think if negative and positive psi both exist, and they have this effect of cancelling each other out, causing the average to be chance, 50%, then sticking with ways of calculating things by chance is, in the long run, just as effective. Thus, of what benefit is psi? It has little practical application if in the long run, if the long-term results generated are no better than if we'd relied on chance. Perhaps you are right and this does show that both positive and negative psi exist and had an influenec on a viewer's session, causing them to get lower-than-average after higher-than-average runs. But a tthe end of the day, their average is equal to chance. So there was *no benefit* in psi in such an experiment even if it existed. Also, lab findings seem to show that there are *higher-than-chance* results. These findings should be replicable. Please note I am speakign from only a moderate understanding of statistics. I'm not genius at statistics. I am planning to just run the experiments and allow people to draw their own conclusions. When I say I want to repeat lab experiments, that's exactly what I mean. Science is about: repeatability, peer-review, accountability. >4. How do you plan on eliminating tester bias...I like red better than >black...will my body temp, eyes, voice, brathing etc.etc change when I see a >red card and will I "transmit" these to the Viewer/Psychic... The experiments will be performed online. Therefore, there won't be any transmission of body heat, eyes, voice, etc. However, this would be an important issue if, indeed, the test was being conducted in other "non-remote" circumstances. >5. .......and besides card tricks are just that...card tricks...they prove >nothing... It seems to me you have already dismissed the value of this experiment before there is so much as a single result. And why do you use the word "trick"? "Trick" implies a gimmick. Why would it be any more a gimmick if done publicly, then if it was done privately in a lab? It only means the results, INCLUDING FULL DATA, are published openly, instead of kept filed away for internal reference and review only. I'm suggesting we perform a scientific experiment, based on repeating previous experiments, to test for a useful and practical psi ability, and if found, attempt to charter it's boundaries throuh follow-up experiments. My definition of "useful and practical psi ability" is: results that average out at above-chance levels. If they average out at chance levels, what benefit does psi provide other than something we could of guessed? If psi makes us do better than chance, then do worse than chance, with no way of knowing without feedback which is the case, and with negative/positive psi averaging out at "chance", while it may exist, it doesn't sound particularly valuable or useful above "guesswork." (Incidentally, I have never said chance results = no psi exists.) Also, why is it when science is done behind closed doors it is called parapsychology, a "highly scientific field of investigation", but when someone proposes that the same be done openly and accountably, it is immediately condemned and dismissed by so many as a "parlor trick"? Personally, from an open-science point of view, I think the latter is more useful. The former is secretive and denies the public the chance to participate fully in the experiment. This reduces accountability of the field and the ability for a third party to check/verify their results (without, as I'm proposing, repeating them.) What is the difference between a psi experiment performed in secret, and a psi experiment performed in public? It seems here we're calling the former "scientific research" and the latter a "parlor trick" which is of no use. I find the idea of support for a closed, private investigation, yet such skepticism for open, public investigations, to be disturbing. Joe McMoneagle talks about openness, peer-review, criticism and accountability in his interviews. I agree. But where is the peer-review, openness, criticism and accountability if we (a) can't look at the lab data, (b) aren't supposed to 'set up our own lab' to do something similar? There's no "peer-review", no "openness", no ability to criticise, and no accountability in that system. We have to rely on faith in the scientists in order to accept the premise that psi is "for real" in this scenerio, because the majority of lab data is unobtainable and thus unexaminable, unreviewable. I am not entering the experiment under the assumption that psi either does or does not exist. I am entering the experiment in order to attempt to replicate the experiments and findings of similar studies. That IS science, and it's done all the time. Science does not have to be done by scientists, or in a lab. Science is a methodology, a way of testing, experimenting, arriving at conclusions, etc. That's what I'm proposing. A scientific run of experiments. An attempt to replicate the findings of psi laboratories. >if you want to test things on the net...do like Paul does...come up >with some nifty targets and let people view them...then check the number of >"rookie successes" with the number of "pros successes"...check the accuracy of >hits... Given the complexities of measuring psi in this manner, I would rather stick to simpler, more clear-cut experiments. They've been done before and apparently got above-50% scores, so what's the problem in repeating the experiments? Besides, there is always the UT skeptic site for things like that. Not that many people want to acknowledge that the idea behind the UT skeptic site is a sound one, either. Even if (perhaps) they're not perfect. You can hardly blame them on such a complex psi experiment for perhaps getting things wrong. Some might say they should of tried red and black cards, instead, it'd be much easier :) Lyn has claimed on air that he has got, I believe, 58.3% accuracy in viewing red and black cards in his experiments. I am proposing we perform our own experiment, and try to replicate those findings. Is that really so unthinkable? Or because we are outside a lab, does psi suddenly cease to exist and become unrepeatable, protected by a variety of pre-prepared explanations to explain why this sort of thing can only ever be done in labs? >check similarity of responses...do people use the same words to >describe same items...do they use these words every time this type of object >is observed....see there are lots of ways to learn things about RV without >resorting parlor games... Why are you so resistent to rerunning a simple laboratory experiment that evidently many people would be interested in contributing in? What is there to lose? I honestly believe that it's way past time that this field moved into a new era of openness, where it does not condemn or dismiss any attempts to publicly test and measure psi vs. chance accuracy, where instead these kinds of tests and scrutinisations are encouraged, and where everyone can be involved from start to finish in the *entire* process, from planning, to application, to the trials themselves, through to the presentation of results, to the analysis of the data, to.. if we ever get that far.. the stage of drawing up summarises, analysis and conclusions based on the experimental trials. I simply do not understand why people can call an open public environment a "parlor trick", and the same thing done in a lab, in a closed private environment, "scientific research." Why the disparity? What separates the two? As far as I can tell, one is public, one is private. There is nothing else to stop the experiments being basicly identical in purpose and practice, if enough research is performed to make sure that's exactly what they are. Science is about repeatability. If an experiment cannot be repeated with similar or same results the second we step out of a lab, one has to ask why? And why such resistence to the idea of giving it a try? Why don't we want to attempt to repeat these experiments and the findings, conclusions etc? Is this some kind of sin? Must the conclusions be taken on pure faith in the scientists and the labs, and that their conclusions are true based on our faith or respect for those scientists, having -nothing whatsoever to do with having reviewed their data- or having attempted to repeat their experiments and got similar results? I honestly feel an open, objective, fair, rational, peer-reviewable, public, repeatable set of experiments cannot hurt, and can only advance our understanding, if anything. I am bemused that laboratory findings are used by some individuals (not talking about you here, Gene) to bolster their argument that "psi is real", then become resistent to the idea of re-running those experiments publicly. From my heart, Gene - honestly, all I want to do is to re-run those experiments publicly. I am doing my best right now to obtain as much information as possible on how to best do these experiments, before beginning. I may indeed have made a few mistakes in my post here, because of my lack of familiarity with some scientific "truths". However, I understand fully the concept of peer-review, accountability, openness, repeatability etc, and it is these concepts I am latching onto, and are the reason for my desire, my need, to re-run these experiments publicly. I want to repeat lab experiments and attempt to replicate their findings. Is that such a bad idea? I can only think it's good science, not bad science, to try to do this. If you'd like to be helpful, you are welcome to suggest ways to ensure that a proposed red/black or other "binary experiment" can be performed and operated under controlled conditions to test for psi. Any information you might have on how previous experiments were performed, under what conditions etc., would be extremely useful in the "setting up" phase of this project. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/214)
12:28:10
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Bevy, Thank you for the information on the cards, I found it useful :) It might be worth me getting these cards eventually, but part of me definately wants to try a binary psi experiment. If I ever do do an experiment, binary or not, then I'll want to make sure I've researched it properly before anything begins. There's no point spotting a mistake mid-way through the experiment and having to restart, afterall, if you can instead know the ground rules from the very beginning of the experiment. If anyone reading has been involved with red/black card experiments in a laboratory (i.e. controlled) setting, I'd appreciate them getting in touch with me here or (perhaps better) by private e-mail. Anything anyone could tell me on the controls surrounding those experiments, statistical methods that were used, general methods used to 'receive'/'transmit' the colour etc.. basically, anything at all about how the experiment was performed, would be useful. Since LynB remembers card experiments (red/black?) being performed in the RV unit at some time, I can only hope that someone reading here from the ex-RV unit was involved in one of the card test experiments and is able to help, hopefully by providing enough information to as closely re-create the experiments as possible. If anyone reading CAN help, please get it touch. Thanks, it's appreciated! :) And thanks again, Bevy, for the information :) Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Mind Race
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/215)
12:28:18
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From Marilyn Huff (huff@...): I have found several copies of Russell Targ and Keith Harary's Book "Mind Race" in a used book store. I bought them, hoping to sell them, Not for profit, but only for my expenses, since there seemed to be such an interest. I have 4 copies that are in very good shape, first edition, hard back, complete with outer paper cover. One has a bit of pencil underlining and an inscription and another has the hard cover on upside down. They are very clean. My cost, including postage, packaging comes to about $14.00. (I just had a scare where I sent one to someone and it didn't get there, so maybe I need to insure them. It turned out that it arrived OK.) I would need to include that cost also. I will send to the U.S. only, the cost to England is $23.00, unless I can find another way to send it. The books are quite heavy. Of course, the bookstore people thought I was totally nuts for buying so many of the same book. But we RV'rs in training can't be bothered by a little thing like insanity now, can we? Please let me know if you want one. I also found several other copies, but they were more expensive. I would be willing to try to get them down in price if people want more than I have. I did it on the 4th book I bought and I can do it again. Let me know at huff@... Marilyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sony psi research closed down
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/216)
12:28:29
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
> It seems incredible to me that the conclusion was that no practicale >applications were possible. Is this another cover up denouncing psi so >that the practical applications go underground. > >Surely, as the many RV groups have found, psi even at a low level can >aid in finding Oil, people, etc. A very bizzare conclusion! Hi Bill, Well, you'd think they'd find applications, wouldn't you? Perhaps they're just being a pragmatic, hard-headed businessmen, and like corporations can easily be, find it very difficult to adapt to new circumstances, preferring to stick to their home terriority, where they know the grounds. Corporations tend to enter new markets by buying up companies that are established in those markets, rather than through their own resourcefulness. Companies like Microsoft come to mind. If the story is accurate, they're probably wondering what consumer products they can mass-manufacture, sell and market from it. Not exactly visionary, but for an electronics company, they might have felt psi was incompatible with the sort of things they like to make, sell, etc. Say a large psi corporation or company really took off. Perhaps Sony, if still interested, would buy out the company if they saw the market was heading that way. That's how corporations tend to "think" - acquisitions, joint ventures and mergers. But of course, you could easily be right! Sony might simply be denying any interest in the subject because it was a potential source of embarassment (remind us of anyone, folks?) Whether they're still doing anything is up for debate really. It's hard to say. Companies do often keep secrets, and are very protective of their trade secrets, so perhaps they're just trying to throw their competitors off-track, and are really taking it "underground." But some how, intellectually, the idea of a consumer-products corporation researching psi with an idea to making money out of it seems - incompatible. It's hard enough to say what psi *is*, no one really knows what it is or what lies behind it, so how do you turn that unknown force/whatever into a marketable product? I think of their statement about wanting to put chi energy into batteries. Sounds like typical conservative corporation thinking. Something tells me that building interactive and digital TVs, etc. are a high-priority for Sony right now, and the psi research was something of a bafflement for the existing management. Perhaps they just felt there wasn't enough $billion's to be made in it to keep them interested in pursueing it any further (corporations think "profit.") Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/217)
12:28:47
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Hi Bill, > I'm definitely interested and would participate ( along with my more >psychic son). That's great news! :) >The simpler the test the better, than statistics can be >uesd to assess the results relative to chance. My thinking exactly. By chance we can get it right 50% of the time. Whether the lack of psi or the existence of anti-psi/negative-psi (see my reply to Curran2106), something I have intellectual problems in accepting as an explanation for a 50% accuracy score personally, the real test is to see if psi can do better than chance in a reliable way. If we start getting consistently an average of 55% or more over a long period of time, then something interesting is happening whichis more than statistical fluke. >Terms like 25% , 50%, 75% etc. don't mean much statistically. Even 1% >success could be way above chance and 95% could be only chance >depending on the way the experiment is set up and the number of >possible answers. Exactly right. Hence my problems with the varying statistics of 25%, 33%, 35%, 50%, 70%, 85%, 100% etc. offered as "the accuracy of remote- viewing." Which one's the "right one"?? IS there a "right one"? And what is "chance"? (But then, if the rules let us score sessions as low as 25% and as high as 85% depending on the system you're using, it's reasonable to assume that as the accuracy level moevs, so does the chance level as the parameters of scoring it are changed.) A red/black or "binary" experiment, in theory, gets around this problem, as we can deal with clear-cut statistics. At least, that's the hope. Chance is 50%. For psi to be useful practically, it needs to score above 50%. We can just "stay tuned" to watch the overallscores, and the scoresof the individuals. Perhaps certain individuals will be better at this then others. >Also you need almost immediate feedback to keep the players going, >and computation of odds. I was planning to provide feedback every week or so. I'm still working out the specifics, though. I could do with a lot more information then I have so far. >Also, a comparison of scores with other RVers, and psychics might be >challenging. It could be called "Beat the Psychic--challenge". Hey I'd >even donate in on the winning pot! Cool! ;-) Actually, I was thinking of something along those lines - not a "winning pot", although that sounds like it'd add excitement to the thing (incentive to viewer? Improve psi performance? I wonder.) I was thinking of giving each viewer a unique number, like in the ex-military unit, perhaps label people as V01, V02, etc :) People would be anonymous though, unless they *wanted* to be identified. This way, it also opens up some interesting possibilities. If we see "gifted" people scoring 70% accuracy regularly, we can perhaps focus our attentions on them.. there's nothing to say we have to stop with a red/black experiment, afterall :) Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/218)
12:29:02
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Steve-- At 10:27 AM 7/9/98 +-100, you wrote: >Exactly right. Hence my problems with the varying statistics of >25%, 33%, 35%, 50%, 70%, 85%, 100% etc. offered as "the accuracy of remote- >viewing." Which one's the "right one"?? IS there a "right one"? And what is >"chance"? You must remember--these "percentages" thrown around about RV are not deviations from CHANCE--they are estimates of what percentage of RV sessions produce unambiguous results. Chance calculations for RV experiments are a different animal altogether--they have to do with whether a judge can pick the right target an RV session describes out of a pool of five or six other decoy targets. As such they are as much a measure of the judge's discriminative abilities as of the rmeote viewer's success. In an RV session against a target that was picked from an inifnite target pool (in other words, the target could be anything in the world), it is essentially impossible to calculate deviations from chance. The viewer shouldn't get such a target even *once*--the odds against it are incalculable. But even when a viewer succeeds several times (among perhaps several misses), there are those who simmply can't accept the fact that something "psychic" is happening! >>Also you need almost immediate feedback to keep the players going, >>and computation of odds. >I was planning to provide feedback every week or so. Nope, that's not often enough; if you're going to have a binary color-guessing experiment the feedback has to be IMMEDIATE--with every choice. Since you want to do this online you will need to automate it in some way. You could have a neutral-colored square that turns red or black periodically, determined by a random number generator (there are software versions of these--checkwith Angela Thompson Smith). You can have two buttons underneath which the subject can click on with a mouse--one button for red, the other for black. The color-square turns what ever color the RNG specifies as soon as the subject clicks on whichever button he/she chooses. The computer then keeps track of which button was clicked, together with what color turned out to be correct. You'd limit a "run" to probably ten tries, but the subject could do as many or as few funs as desired. you'd have to have a computer-maintained account for each subject so you cold keep track of the results without a HUGE amount of bookkeeping. More about your red/black experiment in other posts. Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/219)
12:30:01
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Steve-- At 09:04 AM 7/9/98 +-100, you wrote: >If people tire of this "parlor trick", they should be all means quit while they're ahead. One of the issues Gene is talking about is a very real problem I'll here call "experiment boredom" (it has a real name, but it escapes me right now--I stayed up too late and got up too early! ;-). In effect, the subject WANTS to do the experiment, but after numerous repeats of the same old repetitive tasks, scores fall off dramatically, likely because the subsconscious has gotten bored with the lack of variety. It is analogically similar to apetite boredom, where people who have nothing but one food--say unsweetened oatmeal--to eat for years might starve to death rather than eat another bite of oatmeal! What Gene is referring to is that sometimes surprising and unintentionally creative things started happening--just as if the person's subconscious decided to play tricks to alleviate the boredom. BTW, that was one of the reasons Ingo's experiments at ASPR evolved into remote viewing. In RV, there is always variety, becuase every target is different, and challenging in different ways. There is much less opportunity for experiment boredom to develop. Before you even launch into your experiment, I suggest you read Dean Radin's book "The Conscious Universe" (available from Amazon.com or perhaps at a local library). He shows the resultant statistical and metastatistical analyses of thousands of these and related sorts of experiments, providing an airtight case in my opinion for the existence of psi. You might, BTW, also want to look into the research JB Rhine did--there are a number of books out on it, probably available at a library near you. He did literally thousands of card-guessing experiments of various kinds (many using the ziner (sp?) cards mentioned by Bevy). I don't know if any of them were binary colors or not. >For your information, behind this experiment, I am working on the following >premise: > >- Results are equal or bordering on chance: Psi ability has not been >unambiguously demonstrated to exist in this particular experiment. I'm not sure this is the case. I think there have been binary psi esperiments that demonstrated conclusive statistical effects. Again, see Radin and Rhine. >>3. Let;s say that a viewer gets a consistent 75% correct hits...then all of >>sudden they begin to get only 25% correct hits...What does that mean..?..Have >>they burned out?...Have they lost it?...hmmmmm???...Actually getting 75% >>correct hits is the same as getting 25% correct hits...ask any >>mathematician... > >That would assume the existence of "negative psi," getting consistently WORSE >than chance. I cannot logically reconcile how "negative psi" could exist, Actually, it does, and in some experiments is as robust as positive effects. It is known in the literature as "psi-missing," and happens when a subject produces results significantly *below* chance outcomes. >I think if negative and positive psi both exist, and they have this effect of cancelling >each other out, causing the average to be chance, 50%, then sticking with ways of >calculating things by chance is, in the long run, just as effective. I would suspect that statistical meta-analysis could be used to sort through such problems as Gene presents. >benefit is psi? It has little practical application if in the long run, if the long-term >results generated are no better than if we'd relied on chance. Don't get experimental results confused with practical applications. They are entirely different things. Lab experiments are designed to be quantitatively evaluate-able (couldn't think of a better word right now). But that says nothing about the QUALitative aspects which--after all--are where the practical applications are. >>5. .......and besides card tricks are just that...card tricks...they prove >>nothing... What "card tricks" can prove is an effect. They cannot demonstrate a causal linkage. But that is the case with ALL psi experiments, even RV. >Besides, there is always the UT skeptic site for things like that. Not that >many people want to acknowledge that the idea behind the UT skeptic site >is a sound one, either. Even if (perhaps) they're not perfect. You can hardly >blame them on such a complex psi experiment for perhaps getting things wrong. >Some might say they should of tried red and black cards, instead, it'd be >much easier :) Actually, they wanted to do something like that, but I talked them into something more interesting. Right now they're still trying to quantify an approach, with the current idea of making a multiple-choice form where you indicate the presence or absence of various gestalts, sensories, etc. This also has been done before, at SRI and SAIC--but as far as I know the results haven't been released. FYI, the format for the experiment at the RV unit was to use a limited number of cards from a regular deck of playing cards with the face cards removed. They would be shuffled, then the placed face down on a table. The subject would declare "red" or "black" for whichever color he/she thought would be on the top most card. The card was then turned over, and the subject's response and the actual color recorded. The subject could stop any time, and could do as many or as few "runs" at a sitting as desired. On any given run, the subject might try all ten, or stop after getting three in a row right. Statistics were kept on how many cards were guess in each run, and what the correct "guesses" were (I hate this term "card guessing," by the way; if we're presuming there is psi afoot, there has to be more than "guessing"involved!). Enjoy, Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/220)
12:30:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
At 09:43 AM 7/9/98 +0000, you wrote: >One of the issues Gene is talking about is a very real problem I'll here >call "experiment boredom" (it has a real name, but it escapes me right >now--I stayed up too late and got up too early! ;-). In effect, the >subject WANTS to do the experiment, but after numerous repeats of the same >old repetitive tasks, scores fall off dramatically, likely because the >subsconscious has gotten bored with the lack of variety. It is >analogically similar to apetite boredom, where people who have nothing but >one food--say unsweetened oatmeal--to eat for years might starve to death >rather than eat another bite of oatmeal! > >What Gene is referring to is that sometimes surprising and unintentionally >creative things started happening--just as if the person's subconscious >decided to play tricks to alleviate the boredom. BTW, that was one of the >reasons Ingo's experiments at ASPR evolved into remote viewing. In RV, >there is always variety, becuase every target is different, and challenging >in different ways. There is much less opportunity for experiment boredom >to develop. I wonder if this could be handled by making the target interesting but continuing to require only a binary choice. In experimental design, this technique is known as separation of stimulus and reponse complexity. It seems to me that the simulus could be as complex as you wanted it to be. The response could still be simple -- red vs. black, dark vs. light, tall vs. short, structure vs. land vs. water. Best regards, Michael R. Michael O'Bannon, Ph.D. 42 Lenox Pointe Atlanta, GA 30324 stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/221)
12:30:57
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Michael-- Glad to see you up on Stargate! At 11:10 PM 7/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >could still be simple -- red vs. black, dark vs. light, tall vs. short, >structure vs. land vs. water. Hhhhmmm. Interesting notion--and sounds kinda fun. It would be a little complicated to set up, but still doable, seems to me. Any alphageeks out there who might be interested in tackling the programming aspects (but make sure it's y2k compiant!;-) for poor Steve? ('Course, maybe he's competent himself to do it. He's often surprised me in the past!) Also, sorry I haven't responded about your EEG experiment query, Michael. Send me a quick outline of what you have in mind. Now, back to work. Enjoy, Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/222)
12:31:12
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<< Lyn has claimed on air that he has got, I believe, 58.3% accuracy in viewing red and black cards in his experiments. I am proposing we perform our own experiment, and try to replicate those findings. Is that really so unthinkable? >> I ran some of those experiments with Lyn using the most stringent control measures and scientific protocols...If Lyn scored 58+% then he is to be congratulated...but take into account, Lyn (and the rest of us) were so "shotgunned" in our repsonses that there weas no way we could continuously score anything better than chance... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/223)
12:31:29
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<< Why are you so resistent to rerunning a simple laboratory experiment that evidently many people would be interested in contributing in? What is there to lose? >> Steve...pull in your dagger...I am not resisting anything..I am not participating..I was just sending you the wisdom of twenty years in this business and calling to challenge the statement of 58.3% for Lyn...he is a dear friend and he knows he could not consiostently score above 50/50 like the rest of us..some days it was higher some days it was lower...its your test and if you feel it will give you some sort of imperical data on which to vbasae a clear defendable position...what the heck to to I care...I am already a proven Pshchic ...don't have to prove it to anyone ever again... gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/224)
12:31:40
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>I ran some of those experiments with Lyn using the most stringent control >measures and scientific protocols...If Lyn scored 58+% then he is to be >congratulated...but take into account, Lyn (and the rest of us) were so >"shotgunned" in our repsonses that there weas no way we could continuously >score anything better than chance... Thanks for your comments, Gene. I'm pretty sure that Lyn had said he had 58.3% average, and that Joe once (only once) scored 100% on 52 cards.. I'll re-listen to that part of the Art Bell show to check and will let you know when I find. I appreciate your comments on red/black, etc. Michael's suggested we could try a similar binary experiment but with something different. My main concern is in attempting a binary experiment, and there's no reason we can't find some way to make it interesting, but still keep the experiment fairly simple. I'm game to any suggestions! I'm not hell-bent on having a red/black card test, that was just a suggestion.. I'm interested in proposals for a "binary" experiment, though.. Again, thanks for contributing. Any ideas on possible binary experiments that would be "interesting" to the viewer but are basically binary in nature? Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
MAGNETIC FIELDS
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/225)
12:31:50
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Hi Bevy! Thanks for the reply. I agree 100% that psi is not mediated by EMF. However, I think these experiemnts and stories I posted are indicative of stimulating certain areas of the brain, which may be more sensitive to psi. The brain is clearly influenced by EMF and magnetics, and it is this rather than psi signal or psi reception that is effected by EMF osccilating fields. Is the difference clear? All psi seems to be received initially at a subconcious primitive level in the brain, and accessing this primitive area may be stimulated by EMF, or altered states, or protocols such as CRV. Best Regards, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/226)
12:32:00
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Steve...pull in your dagger...I am not resisting anything..I am not >participating..I was just sending you the wisdom of twenty years in this >business and calling to challenge the statement of 58.3% for Lyn...he is a >dear friend and he knows he could not consiostently score above 50/50 like the >rest of us..some days it was higher some days it was lower...its your test and Hi Gene, I've just been re-listening to the Art Bell Show of 25/3/97. Play from about 20 minutes in the show (Lyn starts talking about it at about red-black cards at 22 minutes but there's a small prelude IYSWIM) (time includes adverts etc), Lyn actually says his extended experiment on red and black cards puts it at at 68.3%, not 58.3% as I had remembered (well, 2 numbers out of 3 isn't bad ;). Although perhaps Lyn had only just started the experment. You'd have to ask him. (I would ask myself, but he does not seem to be replying to emails at the moment and I don't fancy calling international-direct :) RealAudio/RealPlayer users can go to the show by select 'Open Location' and typing: http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/abell/9703/ab0325.ram - then skipping forward to about 20-22 minutes. Lyn's stats of 68.3% was what originally got me thinking about doing binary experiments with red/black cards, and lately after finding some playing cards, got me thinking about doing an experiment similar to the one where Lyn referred to 68.3% accuracy on the Art Bell show. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/227)
12:32:16
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>I wonder if this could be handled by making the target interesting but >continuing to require only a binary choice. In experimental design, this >technique is known as separation of stimulus and reponse complexity. It seems >to me that the simulus could be as complex as you wanted it to be. The >response >could still be simple -- red vs. black, dark vs. light, tall vs. short, >structure vs. land vs. water. I agree it should be interesting. I don't know much about the processes involved, but presumably this would be on a web-site, and some sort of random-number type generator would have to be behind the scenes to ensure that the colours or whatever come up as randomly as possible (??). Say red and black are decided upon. Then perhaps, if it's not too complicated (and I know nothing about programming, so sorry if it's too outlandish a suggestion), some sort of scoring could be fed back to us...in money terms....it would be as if we were all playing roulette, and the one that accumulates the biggest 'pot' gets the 'prize' (or just the satisfaction, if no-one's buying ). Further analysis could be done behind the scenes of course. This is a light-hearted suggestion, and may not appeal to some, but I think that if there's an element of fun in the experiment then all the better. Whatever is decided, I'll definitely join in though. BTW you may/may not know of the little applet on enchantedmind.com that uses colours. -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/228)
12:32:48
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<< Again, thanks for contributing. Any ideas on possible binary experiments that would be "interesting" to the viewer but are basically binary in nature? Best regards, Steve. >> One final note and then I let it die...If we psychics could consistenty score better than chance on binaries...we should all be millionaires...many times over...by simply playing the daily/weekly lotteries or even the stock markets...on a binary Yes/No protocol...but GUESS WHAT!!!!...we tried that also...including Lyn...and we are all still working stiffs not living the lives of luxery one would expect of people who supposedly should be able to do something as simple as picking six numbers... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/229)
12:33:07
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
<< Lyn's stats of 68.3% was what originally got me thinking about doing binary experiments with red/black cards, and lately after finding some playing cards, got me thinking about doing an experiment similar to the one where Lyn referred to 68.3% accuracy on the Art Bell show. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
MAGNETIC FIELDS
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/230)
12:33:24
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>There is also evidence I've seen on Discovery Channel that stimulating >the temporal lobes of the brain with an oscilating field of certain >frequencies causes psi like effects. OOBE's, voices etc. although these >investigators did not try to determine if these manifestations were >truly psychic or simply hallucinations in fact claimed the opposite >without any experiments. Thanks for that Bill, very interesting. I'll do some 'searching' on the web and see what I can find. As for the 'black ops'.........Who knows what goes on behind closed doors? Nothing would surprise me. It's enough to give you the 'heebie- geebies' though! Shame it always seems to be for military purposes, but I guess they get the funding, and we can always hope for 'good' spin- offs.......like getting us all interested in rv :-) -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
MAGNETIC FIELDS
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/231)
12:33:37
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>Dr. Andrija Puharich did a great deal of work on PSI fields operating while in >or out of magnetic fields. He used a Farraday (sp) cage for some of the >experimental trials and found that magnetic fields did not seem to be a factor >either for or against the operation and efficiency of PSI. (Dr. P. also found >correlation between some phases of the lunar orb to create a small effect) (no >comment) Hello Bevy, Dammit, I've just gone to look amongst my collection of dusty books, and guess what I've just found..'Beyond Telepathy' by Andrija Puharich. I'd completely forgotten about it until you mentioned his name. I bought it back in 1975. The experiments are there......I'll re-read it. Thanks. I've also 'found' 'Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain' by Sheila Ostrander & Lynn Schroeder, which I got in '73. There's mention re experiments with electro-magnetic fields in that too. That'll teach me. Look first, ask questions later! Many thanks, ps. I didn't do too well on your first target...:-(. Try try again.... -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
MAGNETIC FIELDS
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/232)
12:33:52
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Quite creative and resourceful of you to think of incorporating rv'ing during >an MRI scan. I don't really know much about the studies regarding the effect >of magnetic fields on psi (I'm sure someone else on the list will address >this), >but I wonder whether having to concentrate intently on something else than >the >MRI and implications, where you forced yourself to block out distractions >helped >you to access the target. Hello Roger, Yes, I think that such a different *environment* may have been the key. Difficult to say without being able to repeat it, but I also agree with other posters that exposure to very strong electro-magnetic fields over time, could prove dangerous. The operator of the scanner left the room, shut the door and observed things through the window in the next room ! The security was very tight, passcodes to get in doors, warning signs everywhere, questions (same set by two different people) to make sure I had no metal plates or splinters in my body...or was wearing metal (gold was OK though...and nobody asked about fillings in my teeth so they must have been OK too). Potentially dangerous physically, let alone mentally! Perhaps I'll buy me a *little* magnet :-) -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/233)
12:34:01
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Dear Michael, I appreciate what you said about peer review. I am a research scientist and used to that system. But when a peer reviewed article comes out demonstrating psi...the great majority of scientists conclude unfairly that the researchers were just to stupid or self deluded to find the flaw in there analysis, or as the skeptics frequently say simply cheeted. Therefore, the peer review process breaks down totally in an area like psi or like UFO's where the peer scientists know that simply agreeing with the possibility of such concepts can and has gotten them fired. On the other hand a simple wide open for anyone to view test on the web, (actually better on a completely public site) has alot to offer if done in a manner that can't be questioned. The experiements and stats. are relatively simple, its the fool proof open design that can't be rigged that would finally impress. Regards, Bill Pendergrass Ph.D. ( Biochemistry). stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/234)
12:34:11
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Kopfjaeger wrote: > I know it seems like it should work, but it doesn't. After a steady > diet of lousy results, your subconscious will run screaming from the > project. It is my experience/sense that the subconscious is about as interested in games of chance (after the first few trials) as the conscious mind is in being stalled in traffic on the freeway. Which is why an individual's results with RVing are likely to be most successful when viewing targets that have some real purpose (real life application) behind the viewing. Although I must admit on a conscious level I love to play those games of chance. Shelia stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/235)
12:34:40
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Excuse me, forgot to say that Aries does not have means to take orders by phone....sorrry to say. Only snail. Secondly, forgot to say that they have a better symbol deck than the zener deck, same price and shipping. 'scuse. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
MAGNETIC FIELDS
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/236)
12:34:50
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Actually, doing a scan while in a MRI is a new 'take' on an experiment Dr. Karlis Osis wanted to do at one time. We discussed something of that nature being applied while a student was learning to RV. His interest was in 'what happened to the brain' while performing this task. I know that there have been some experiments along these lines here and there, but have no data on the use of an MRI during rv. Does anyone? Bevy J Only thing reported professionally was that there was 'excess electrical activity in the rear brain during 'psychic' work'. (Not Osis's statement) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/237)
12:35:07
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> I appreciate what you said about peer review. I am a research scientist >and used to that system. But when a peer reviewed article comes out >demonstrating psi...the great majority of scientists conclude unfairly >that the researchers were just to stupid or self deluded to find the >flaw in there analysis, or as the skeptics frequently say simply >cheeted. Therefore, the peer review process breaks down totally in an >area like psi or like UFO's where the peer scientists know that simply >agreeing with the possibility of such concepts can and has gotten them >fired. Bill, Actually the peer review process *works* because the article is evaluated by the review panel for the research journal. This review panel consists of other researchers working in the field, and these are the "peers" referred to by the term "peer review." It a review of the experimental design chosen, analysis methods, and the logic behind the conclusions drawn. It is not an observation of the experiment or inspection of the data. I also work within the publication system, and we both know there are weaknesses there. I am not disputing that. I merely wanted to point out that experiments published in most research journals does go through peer review this term is generally understood. The response of the wider scientific community is another issue, not an issue of peer review. >On the other hand a simple wide open for anyone to view test on >the web, (actually better on a completely public site) has alot to offer >if done in a manner that can't be questioned. The experiements and >stats. are relatively simple, its the fool proof open design that can't >be rigged that would finally impress. I am fully in favor of these kinds of tests. The more often effects can be replicated and observed, the better. Best regards, Michael R. Michael O'Bannon, Ph.D. 42 Lenox Pointe Atlanta, GA 30324 stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/238)
12:35:16
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Dave and I sometimes go down to the Casinos for fun. We usually take about $20.00 and that lasts all evening! We get $5 of nickels, some quarters, and play red and black on the roulette. One time, we thought we had found a sure fire method of winning. We would watch the roulette whell before playing and check to see if we were psi hitting or psi missing (about 10 spins of the wheel). If we were psi hitting ie getting more than 50% correct, then one of us would bet and the other would call the color - red or black. If we were psi missing - hitting less than 50% - one of us would bet against the one who was calling the numbers. The first time we played we bet $10 and came away with $50 - exactly what we needed to buy a christmas tree and some decorations. We thought we had hit on a sure fire winning method. Then we played again - and lost miserably. Since then we have played the psi hit/psi miss method a couple of times and won several times - more than we put into the game. However, we soon got bored with the game and haven't played for a long time. The Decline Effect kicked in! Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith Inner Vision stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Targets
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/239)
12:35:26
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Would any of the stargate list subscribers be interested in participating in some Inner Vision pilot research? next week, I will be placing some target envelopes in my office on certain days and at certain times. Some of the target sessions will be real time i.e. the target will be generated and placed in the envelope just prior to the time the viewing is conducted. Other targets will be generated after the viewing is done ie the viewing effort will be precognitive. You will not be told which condition you are participating in until after the pilot study. If you are interested email Catalyst@... to arrange a day and date for your session. Hopefully, I will be able to email your picture target following your effort. You will not be judged on the quality of your viewing and any method/protocol will be accepted (ERV, CRV, TRV, SRV etc.) Just send me your session summary, I don't think my current computer system will handle large files and graphics. I would be interested to hear which method you choose to do the viewing. The results of the pilot project will be posted on the psi, innervision and stargate lists. Thank you Angela Thompson Smith The Inner Vision Research Institute Catalyst@... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards reply to Steve
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/240)
12:35:36
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Steve, I I feel your points about doing an open psi experiment are all founded. I think a wide open study on the net is possibly more valid than in a closed lab. where the conditions of the experiment could have been faulty or the data juggled. Everything is above board and unreproachable. As far as statistics I'll ask around. But I think that each person should have a training period on the task and when ready to start accumulating data, ALL TRIALS AFTER THAT POINT have to be accumulated and the odds recomputed to give valid results. So if he has a hot string and his p value is 1 in 10,000 for 20 tries, then the next 20 tries, he is just chance, the two should be combined otherwise a selection bias can enter in. When a predetermined number of trials have been completed ( say 20), that final result should be considered a final for say that month. There are statistics that will show that after alot of trials ( say 200 trials, this will vary according to the way the experiment is set up) the result is not going to change on a random basis significantly in the next 200 or 2000 trials. And if the psi candidate repeats 200 more trials again in a month or so it can be considered a new experiment. When set up this way, If scores do change on subsequent complete complete experiments done in another month,then the change can be considered a true change in the skill level of the psi candidate rather than any ramdom purterbation. The contributors could post new results but not more than one whole experiment per month and track there skill level. Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sony psi research closed down
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/241)
12:36:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
> It seems incredible to me that the conclusion was that no >practicale applications were possible. Is this another cover up >denouncing psi so that the practical applications go underground. >Surely, as the many RV groups have found, psi even at a low level can >aid in finding Oil, people, etc. A very bizzare conclusion! I think this is a typical example of the narrowmindedness of corperate execs, more than anything.. First off, they obviously weren't familiar with RV, and even had they been, I doubt they would've managed to snag a copy of the Tech. Transfer Protocols from the farsight site before they were removed, as I have.. Hehe.. I wanna see if, at some point I can scrape together the resources to start a company based on the application of these protocols.. Anyone interested, drop me a line.. -Tao_Sk8r stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/242)
12:36:25
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Hello Gene, The point is that you could be very psychic with a score of say 58% if you did enough trials, but to make money on 58% you would have to play alot of roulette or craps. Picking six numbers correctly in the lottery would still be a huge longshot when you are only 56% correct. But $$ could be made on a roulette wheel or craps playing all night long. Ever try it? You wouldn't walk away breaking the bank , but could probably make a living and supplement your pension and some gamblers do. Ever try it that way? Regards Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/243)
12:36:42
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>I agree. But where is the peer-review, openness, criticism and >accountability if we (a) can't look at the lab data, (b) aren't >supposed to 'set up our own lab' to do something similar? >There's no "peer-review", no "openness", no ability to >criticise, and no accountability in that system. We have to >rely on faith in the scientists in order to accept the premise >that psi is "for real" in this scenerio, because the majority of >lab data is unobtainable and thus unexaminable, unreviewable. Steve, I applaud your efforts to replicate the card guessing experiment. I do need to point out, though, that you have misunderstood the meaning of "peer review" as it is used in research. Peer review means that a scientist's work has been reviewed by scientific colleagues, peers in the scientific community, and judged worthy of publication. Most scientific journals use peer review to determine whether an article should be published. ( A few do not. You can tell by reading their editorial policies.) So most studies you see in print are peer reviewed. Most researchers also practice openness. It is also considered the scientist's responsibility to preserve raw data from an experiment for a period of time. Most researchers will give you access to that data if you ask within a reasonable time. I have gotten data for re-analysis several times this way, just by calling and asking. Best regards, Michael R. Michael O'Bannon, Ph.D. Corporate and Clinical Psychologist 42 Lenox Pointe Atlanta, GA 30324 stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/244)
12:36:51
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<< Ah, Gene--but many of them are electronic these days! ;-) Paul >> Ah yes but Paul...these same people who claim to be able to influence such things should have no problem making the grand leap to influencing as simple as computer programs since they are in reality only a binary code...yes/no type influence shoudlbe a piece of cake... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Targets
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/245)
12:37:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
I'll participate - How are you judging? Will you be mixing the target in with 3 other decoys then having a 3rd party judge, rank the images to the RV perceptions as per typical protocol? I've done lot's of precognitive research (well, actually associative remote viewing). If you are interested in my results, I'd be happy to discuss them with you. gk Angela Thompson Smith wrote: > Would any of the stargate list subscribers be interested in participating > in some Inner Vision pilot research? next week, I will be placing some stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/246)
12:37:29
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
---Curran2106@... wrote: ...but Gregg..I can assure you those who think they can > beat the stock market, find the Lost Dutchman or whip up on the craps table > are not the type of people who will listen to reason anyhow...Thanxs for the > support anyhow...how have you been...? > Gene.. I'd complain, but nobody wants to listen. I'm afraid I haven't quite had all the idealism beat out of me, yet, due to some tantalizingly near-misses. That time-slip foible of RV is a mutha!...especially when you're paying for the recovery team out-of-pocket. Greg stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/247)
12:37:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Yes, but I can't think of a better way to attract attention to the whole remote viewing/psi phenomenom. You give people the kind of proof where you put your money where your mouth is, and they tend to pay attention. > I can assure you those who think they can > beat the stock market, find the Lost Dutchman or whip up on the craps table > are not the type of people who will listen to reason anyhow.. http://www.remote-viewing.com/ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Targets
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/248)
12:38:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Thanks for the imput Greg and I would appreciate any help on this that you think I could use. The targets will not be judged at this time, this is solely a pilot phase. Later, the targets will be put through a judging procedure. I don't want the viewers to be worried about whether they will be judged at this point. Please email me privately at Catalyst@... with any suggestions, thank you. Kind regards Angela stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sony psi research closed down
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/249)
12:38:12
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
I doubt they would've managed to snag a > copy of the Tech. Transfer Protocols from the farsight site before they > were removed, as I have.. Hehe.. I wanna see if, at some point I can > scrape together the resources to start a company based on the > application of these protocols.. Anyone interested, drop me a line.. > > -Tao_Sk8r As the Operations Director of just such a recovery firm, I dare say this work is difficult enough without using ANYTHING related to Courtney Brown as a basis for operations. Do yourself an enormous favor and get some training from Lyn Buchanan or Paul Smith (both top-flite CRV instructors)... unless you are trying to gather intel on the Hale-Bopp Companion. Good Luck, Greg stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/250)
12:38:55
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
In a message dated 7/9/98 8:09:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, williamrichard@... writes: << Ever try it? >> Yes...and I did not better than if I took straight gambles at the numbers...RV is not a money making proposition...though some swear they have made money in the stock market...and Lyn even claims to have made money in the lotteries...I do not believe it had anything to do with pre-cognitive abilities for a lot of reasons..I have stated them before and most people have selected hearing when I tell them why it does not work so I am no longer going to flog this horse either...check out the bankbooks of the old pros...no different than the rest of middle class America...hmmmm....doesn't that tell you something other than we were all incredibly stupid or incredibly ethical...(neither was the case...).but don't believe me...State lotteries love to try to prove it to you as do the casinos... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/251)
12:39:05
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
<< However, we soon got bored with the game and haven't played for a long time. The Decline Effect kicked in! Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith Inner Vision >> You came away with what most 10$ bettors come away with...a few petty wins and a few petty losses...I would remnd many of you that tore my head off on the issue of Remote Influencing that if you really believe you have the Vulcan Mind Meld capability...put your quarters into the slots and "influence" the simple and inorganic metal and springs of the machine which so many of you say you can do...ought to be sure winners... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/252)
12:40:00
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.but don't believe me...State lotteries love to try to prove it to you > as do the casinos... > Gene... Gene, you've been the lone stick-in-the-mud voice of reality, with a little help from Angela, and I gotta get your back on this one. Gene's not just being a party pooper, guys, he's tellin' ya straight. He's been there. Even Lyn will tell you CRV doesn't work on numbers. Supposedly, ARV (associative) will, but I can't get it to work for me, and I'm a damned good CRV'er. I can even work the CRV protocols from an altered state, but the numbers and red/black thing just shreds the learning curve. I know it seems like it should work, but it doesn't. After a steady diet of lousy results, your subconscious will run screaming from the project. Greg stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/253)
12:40:10
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
In a message dated 7/9/98 9:54:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, heimdallassociates@... writes: << Gene, you've been the lone stick-in-the-mud voice of reality, with a little help from Angela, and I gotta get your back on this one. >> So far tonight I have read at least three or four people who are absolutely certain that the future of RV is finding oil and mineral deposits or breaking the bank at Vegas...I have never taken any money for RV and never will...personal choice but I do know that I have never seen any of the world class viewers with whom I have dealt make any money at RV except by sheer sweat of the brow...hard work..not RV..just hard work such as teaching RV or working with RV or altered state institutions like the Monroe Institutes..no free lunches out there...but Gregg..I can assure you those who think they can beat the stock market, find the Lost Dutchman or whip up on the craps table are not the type of people who will listen to reason anyhow...Thanxs for the support anyhow...how have you been...? Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Real World
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/256)
12:40:22
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Hi all; Liam here. We live in a real world. A world where things are as they are and not as we think or wish they would be. In the real world the biggest bar to RV is a giggle (or as we called it at the project, "the giggle factor.") No elected official can be seen as to supportive of psi, lest it become common knowledge, and the voters begin to giggle. Old Senator Smith is talking to angels, won't vote for him again. No CEO can invest millions of his company's dollars on what a psychic says, or he will not be CEO very long. I get the feeling, that the dedicated researchers in academia are considered a "little odd" by their peers in other branches.I do not believe that the military or the intelligence community will dive back into RV (even though it has been proven to them to be effective and resource efficient) because the public does not want to see it's tax monies being wasted on psychic nonsense. What I do find strange is when we, who know that RV works, become indigent and outraged, when businessmen, elected officials, and researchers choose to live in the real world. Yes the truth is out there, and we should look for it. We being the people in this group. But lets not expect the people who have chosen to live in the "real world" to share our views. All the scientific studies, all the intelligence coups, cannot withstand one good loud belly laugh. I did not know I had become so cynical. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/257)
12:40:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>I know it seems like it should work, but it doesn't. After a steady >diet of lousy results, your subconscious will run screaming from the >project. > >Greg Hi all; Liam here. I have to go along with Greg and Gene on this one. Maybe it is because making money is not all that important. Maybe it is because RV is magic and a gift. Using it to make "easy money" seems a waste of the gift and a perversion of the magic. Even ARV has not proved to be terribly effective from the Targ silver futures to the many attempts to break the bank at Vegas or win the Literary. There seems to be one exception. Pat Price evidently made money by RVing. Unfortunately he allegedly died before he had a chance to enjoy most of it. I would like to see RV used to make the world a better place. If that is not possible, then I would like to use RV to make me a better person. I do not think winning a few million and retiring would make me a better person. Enjoying the magic and recognizing there may be a spiritual aspect to RV seems more important to me than taking early retirement, buying a big house, and making Guinness a richer man slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: [stargate]
Online Psi Experiments
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/258)
12:40:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>fired. On the other hand a simple wide open for anyone to view test on >the web, (actually better on a completely public site) has alot to offer >if done in a manner that can't be questioned. The experiements and >stats. are relatively simple, its the fool proof open design that can't >be rigged that would finally impress. Hi Bill, My own intentions re: the 'binary' experiment, I am hoping will fill the criteria you're talking about here. One of the big frustrations I've had with psi research is that it is very difficult to get a look at the raw data. I made some enquiries but was told that it is rare for even labs to share data with other labs. So for about a month now I've been planning a possible series of online psi experiments. I want to use the strictest, most disciplined scientific protocols and procedures in this experiment - I want to avoid an amateurish experiment and I'm very conscious of some of the comments that have been made on the list - I'd like the only difference between my own attempts at an online psi experiment (whatever experiment I eventually choose) and the same one done in a laboratory setting being - the setting, and the higher degree of openness and accountability. I'd want it to be, literally, fool-proof - including strong peer-review - namely the Star Gate list and/or the participants in the experiment. If the innerds of the experiment are in any way suspect, I would want people to shout up, but I'd hope they'd be supportive of the general aim of the experiment and everyone would "play fair." I feel there are a lot of potential benefits to performing such a series of open, online psi experiments. Re: "its the fool proof open design that can't be rigged that would finally impress.", I have to say I agree completely with this and it's part of the plan behind the experiment. I believe openness in science is paramount to it's being verifiable without the need to repeat experiments or set up your own lab (which most people would not have the resources and/or volunteers etc, online or off.) If everything is on the table, from start to finish, and the experiment is sound in every conceivable way, they'd seem to be very little for the skeptics to gripe about. An open experiment offers many possibilities that previously couldn't be explored. Apart from the chance to view everything, through from initial planning (which, if I do go ahead with, could include the discussions that have gone on in the Star Gate list already), through performing trials, analysis, summaries and conclusions.. with every single shred of data inbetween available for full public (peer) review, it also offers the public the chance to *participate* fully in the experiment, as a 'peer-reviewer', as a participating viewer/psychic, or any other role they care to take. Obviously the first stage in any such experiment would be to obtain every single possible shred of scientific data on the setting up and administrating of this type of experiment, and that's what I'm currently involved with. I'm also off to see if I can obtain a copy of the recommended 'Conscious Universe' here in the UK, otherwise I'll have to get it from the US. (Time for me to go rummaging in those trouser pockets for change.. :) Cheers, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Target the accumulator!!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/259)
12:41:04
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Gene said >put your quarters into the slots and "influence" the >simple and inorganic metal and springs of the machine which so many of you say >you can do...ought to be sure winners... Mary quietly suggests you _could_ Target the accumulator!!! Having been fruit machine designers from the days of the Old Jennings, to the latest computerised gizmos, I can give you some insight to the slot machines. The moment you put your coin in the slot and trip the microswitch, the machine already knows the outcome of the game. The odds are run by the computer and accumulator, the % payout is set at about 72% over £10,000 put in, in the UK. The payout cannot legally go lower than that, and in club machines it has to say % on the glass. Its all down to the accumulator. Every coin that goes in is registered as coins in, and everything that is paid out is also registered. So, if a lot has gone in, and not much out, then the liklihood of winning gets much better. Simillarly, if a lot has gone out, then it has to rebalance, by reducing the win factor. This is usually done by the nudge or hold availability, through the accumulator. Then there is the skill factor, where you compete against the machine to win, based around the gamble or take scenario. HINT. The music is attached to the sequencer. Hit the stop buttons at the highest note, or the last note in the sequence. You can react faster by sound, than watching the sequence of lights. The odds at the first shot are 50-50. Then 60-40, 70-30, etc. The parameters are set up by the machine. The machine cannot go broke. If the machine hasn't paid out much, then the chance of winning is much higher, but still against you. Theoretically, the odds should be equal. In practice it isn't. Its worked it out. The trick comes in the tickle. The machine keeps chucking in little wins to keep you going, and it can and will set up holds or nudges when it has worked out you are down to your last coin, or so. Holds may be successful. Nudges are set up and predetermined as to how many, and where. It also makes this assessment on the style of play. The only way to alter things is by introducing a level of chaos to the programme and the accumulator. Playing stupidly, nudging daftly, holding obvious losing lines. Then if you're really lucky, win and walk away. If after all this, you have sat and watched it, targetted the accumulator, and it hasn't paid out for ages, and it feels right, the advice is still never put in more than the highest win you can take out. Or better still, don't play the things at all. In Friendship and Light. MaryD stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/260)
12:41:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Ah yes but Paul...these same people who claim to be able to influence such >things should have no problem making the grand leap to influencing as simple >as computer programs since they are in reality only a binary code...yes/no >type influence shoudlbe a piece of cake... >Gene.. Aloha Gene, I think one would have to examine the methodology of what influences machines. Surely thought has little if any effect on a simple machine. The state of the machine under power in operation would only be affected by certain things. Electromagnetic fields would be the primary tool to cause a machine to burp so to speak, or a surge or drop in power. I do not think that it is impossible to train someone to be able to disturb the operation of a machine. Some people cannot wear a watch, I cannot wear a digital watch for long before it comes to a stop. It's a sad thing I was forced to buy an analog Rolex :). So I would say that the real problem would actually be the intelligent manipulation of a machine that is really the problem. Aloha ... Glenn stargate : Message: [stargate]
Peer Review
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/261)
12:41:25
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Hi Michael, >Actually the peer review process *works* because the article is evaluated >by the review panel for the research journal. This review panel consists >of other researchers working in the field, and these are the "peers" >referred to by the term "peer review." It a review of the experimental >design chosen, analysis methods, and the logic behind the conclusions >drawn. It is not an observation of the experiment or inspection of the data. I think you've hit upon the very point I was trying hard to make. As the kind of person who likes to dodge words, talk and testimonials, and immerse myself fully in solid data and facts, I'm much more concerned about the parameters of the experiments, the procedures, the raw data, etc, then I am about the people involved. Scientific research, to me, is not about personalities and opinions, but procedures, methods, experiments, raw data, replicability and peer-review, etc. People just happen to be there to see that these processes are in motion (I'm not aware of scientific research that was performed without at least one human involved, but I'd be extremely interested to hear if there is ;) I try very hard to separate personalities from the information, and focus solely on the information - information I have some means by which to verify for myself. Testimonies are only good, IMO, as supportive evidence. I do not use personal credibility to establish the credibility of information they give - I prefer to see solid experiments, solid data, and instructions on how I can repeat those experiments should I wish to, plus I'd like to see those curious enough encouraged to set up their very own experiments, with the same parameters etc, in order to verify/validate/replicate the findings of the originating lab, etc. You could say that when it comes to science, I'm pretty distrusting and skeptical of human beings. And that might be true But I think science works better, as an objective form of analysis, when the personal, emotional, element is removed from it. For a long time I have been hoping to be able to obtain/see full data published on these types of lab psu experiments so that the entire process, from start to finish, can be reviewed and disected, etc. Because I understand it may be impractical or extremely difficult for laboratories to implement this kind of system, I decided to propose an online psi experiment, which I hope to back with the same rigorous scientific controls/protocols etc as the original experiments in the laboratories, in order to attempt to replicate the findings of the labs. The only difference being the *entire process* is open to peer-review by *the entire public*, and the entire public is also free to contribute and participate throughout each and every stage of the experiment. The only changes I'd make to be the experiment would be anything that would need to be modified in order for the experiment to work 'online'. I feel that there are tremendous opportunities in performing such an experiment, if properly approached and applied. Right now, I'm in the process of researching the innerds of a lab psi experiment similar to the types I've been proposing. It's lucky we have a psi lab here in the UK - it might prove useful! Once I feel I have the grasp of what's needed to do the experiment, to make it identical to a lab experiment (minus the fact it's open and public, and that it's being done on the Internet and not a lab room), I'll lay down some proposals here, and hopefully, if there aren't any objections to it, we can get started.. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/262)
12:41:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>I would like to see RV used to make the world a better place. If that is >not possible, then I would like to use RV to make me a better person. > >slainte >May the force be with you >Liam Hi Liam, Jerry here. I think you put it very eloquently - RV (or any other psychic ability) has a purpose far beyond money. If you can make money with it - that's great, more power to you. It's just that I feel that I'm subverting the gift when I do that. Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/263)
12:41:59
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Hi all; Liam here. I have to go along with Greg and Gene on this one. >Maybe it is because making money is not all that important. Maybe it is >because RV is magic and a gift. Using it to make "easy money" seems a waste >of the gift and a perversion of the magic. Even ARV has not proved to be >terribly effective from the Targ silver futures to the many attempts to >break the bank at Vegas or win the Literary. There seems to be one >exception. Pat Price evidently made money by RVing. Unfortunately he >allegedly died before he had a chance to enjoy most of it. Another example is Hal Puthoff's story about raising funds for a private school by training members of the Board of Directors in ARV. Their results were used to determine investments in the commodities market. The experiment was successful in raising 50K, if I remember correctly. I heard the story from Hal last year. Best regards, Michael stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/265)
12:42:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Mind Meld capability...put your quarters into the slots and "influence" the >simple and inorganic metal and springs of the machine which so many of you say >you can do...ought to be sure winners... Ah, Gene--but many of them are electronic these days! ;-) Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sony psi research closed down
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/270)
12:42:24
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Yep.. It is called PR..... electrix Bill Pendergrass wrote: > Hi Steve, > > It seems incredible to me that the conclusion was that no practicale > applications were possible. Is this another cover up denouncing psi so > that the practical applications go underground. stargate : Message: [stargate]
The 'Gift'
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/271)
12:42:32
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Jerry here. I think you put it very eloquently - RV (or any other psychic >ability) has a purpose far beyond money. If you can make money with it - >that's great, more power to you. It's just that I feel that I'm subverting >the gift when I do that. Hi Jerry, welcome to the list! I've got to add.. if I ever develop workable psi skills (and I'm not having much luck at it yet), I'd like to use this ability to help others and try to make this world a better place in whatever small way I could. I have to join this growing choir who've been saying so far that such an ability should not be used for selfish ends.. I'd consider psi a gift too, and I wouldn't want to abuse such a precious gift by using it purely for my own self- gain.. it seems such a shallow use of such a potentially valuable tool. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/272)
12:42:45
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Another example is Hal Puthoff's story about raising funds for a private >school by training members of the Board of Directors in ARV. Their results >were used to determine investments in the commodities market. The >experiment was successful in raising 50K, if I remember correctly. I heard >the story from Hal last year. > >Best regards, >Michael Hi Michael; You are right. Hal also told me the story. However I would like to point out that the RVing was done for an altruistic purpose. People were not doing the RVing to make themselves rich. As I said I believe there is a spiritual side to RV. I think selfish motives and materialism tend to degrade results. But then I believe in Leprechauns, fairies, ghouls and ghosts. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Real World
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/273)
12:43:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Yes...it is an oppressive and resistant world. Full of stress and inhibition...enough to dampened the PSI factor, but not enough to prevent it from popping out once in a while in our being. And certainly, not enough oppression to prevent the few and undaunted from exercising our birth-right...against the Emperor. electrix Liam wrote: > Hi all; > Liam here. We live in a real world. A world where things are as they are > and not as we think or wish they would be. In the real world the biggest stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Real World
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/274)
12:43:27
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
<< I did not know I had become so cynical. >> Liam...It comes with old age...your cynicism is a forerunner to being accused of arrogance and combattiveness...you know...acting like a stupid Irishman...heck it almost got me tossed off Steve's net so now I have become a kinder and sweeter Gene...so be very careful about your cynicism...keep it in check since there are those on this system..great academics and sholars who see not "giggle" factors in anything and lead very serious and refined lifestyles which have long ago failed to see humor in the most unlikely places and see only the seriousness of all they do...I have learned to survive with them and can now use such terms as "Peer Review", quantum mechanics, replication of details, statistical analysis without so much as one guffaw...I know have my forehead permanently squinched up into a frown as I contemplate the importance of the difference between 50/50 chance and 58.3 % results and the impact this 8.3% could have on the world at large.... PS...Nice to see another Mick on the net... Gene.. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Psi and money
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/275)
12:43:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
[stargate] Psi and money Hi, gang. Thought I'd change the subject line, since we'd strayed from "Red and black cards" quite a ways. At 03:22 PM 7/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >Jerry here. I think you put it very eloquently - RV (or any other psychic >ability) has a purpose far beyond money. If you can make money with it - >that's great, more power to you. It's just that I feel that I'm subverting >the gift when I do that. For the time being, I'm agnostic about whether one can make money by directly using RV or other psi techniques for making money in games of chance. however, the whole issue of money and psi is a sticky one. There are those who think that it's okay to make money by charging money for training or services (I'm obviously squarely in that camp! ;-), there are those that think that making money with it at all is wrong, and there are others who only think that making money by using psi in gambling games is wrong. But there is a further variable that is often forgotten--the REASON one wants to make money in the first place. I suspect that if one has worthy goals for the money, one may well be successful in many pursuits involving psi and money. If one wants money for selfish reasons, it's often self-defeating. People who are selfish seem to have more of a difficult time being open enough to psi to accomplish such goals. In a sense, the New Testament may apply here--you have to "lose" yourself to "find" yourself. Ironically the end result is this: the altruists don't care about making money from psi, so don't make any. The selfish ones defeat themselves in trying to make money from psi, and so don't make any either! Kind of funny, if you ask me. Interestingly, Hal's ARV project was indeed very successful (but involved a huge amount of work)--but it was a worthwhile project--making money for a Waldorf School. Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: [stargate]
Psi Testing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/276)
12:43:54
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR), ( http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/ ) has been conducting many experiments on the relationship of Psi mediated events. A bit more esoteric than card selection is Mind Song Technologies Shifter Cell(tm), ( http://www.pearinc.com/products/dev.html ), this electronic apparatus reacts to a person's random deviation above or below chance. Ostensibly, this device incorporates a random event generator that produces an viable output which is proportional to the mind's conscious attempts to "shift" the signal beyond or below chance expectations. On the interactive software side, the Shape Changer (r), ( http://www.pearinc.com/products/shch.html ) produces two overlapping graphic images which, by user's influence, biases the pixel display to uncover the user's selected graphic image. There are several web sites that offer online Psi testing: Electronic Psi Test ----- http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/~e8926506/epsi.htm Psi Explorer ----- http://www.psiexplorer.com/indexnm.htm Enchanted Mind -----http://enchantedmind.com/remote/remote.htm stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Real World
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/277)
12:44:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Gene-- At 08:34 PM 7/10/98 EDT, you wrote: >check since there are those on this system..great academics and sholars who >see not "giggle" factors in anything and lead very serious and refined >lifestyles which have long ago failed to see humor in the most unlikely places >and see only the seriousness of all they do... Well, Gene--it's about time you started to see things my way! ;-) I have learned to survive with >them and can now use such terms as "Peer Review", quantum mechanics, >replication of details, statistical analysis without so much as one guffaw... Okay, but now let's see you do it closed-book! >know have my forehead permanently squinched up into a frown as I contemplate >the importance of the difference between 50/50 chance and 58.3 % results and >the impact this 8.3% could have on the world at large.... Come, come. That frown originated years ago and has something to do with waylaying Orangemen... Enjoy, Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Real World
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/278)
12:44:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
<< Come, come. That frown originated years ago and has something to do with waylaying Orangemen... Enjoy, Paul >> Oh sure...your a fine one to look at my version of seriousness...a Doctoral Candidate...yeh yeh..lots of humor in your life lately I'll bet...hahahah Gene.... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/279)
12:44:32
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Dear Steve and List, I thought to take the red-black idea into a roulette wheel .... literally gambling to see if I had any ability to see if I could "guess" black or red colors. I will honestly report I lost $23. However....there were patterns...and though it isn't cards.... and though I am untrained again, I sure enjoyed "holding my own" on a $70 bet for two hours while others around me lost hundreds. I learned however that my idea of black retaining 'heat' had no merit at all. Heat had nothing to do with why I was doing well or not. I did see patterns on a roulette wheel, at least on the one we watched...this time the pattern was red for the most part. So blows my idea that black wins more on a roulette wheel. Was it movement of the wheel, different momentum of spin ( two different dealers spin at different rates of speed?) and general physics of the wheel that enabled me to watch the patterns steadily for two hours without a major financial loss? I have no idea to be honest. Remember that I am reporting a loss on a $70 investment after two hours.....is TIME a factor we should account for in our RV online experiment for red/ black cards? For the sake of reporting, I would say this was a "failure" as I was unable to get ahead of the odds and win, say hundreds, based on mere black and red appearing. Compared to cards, is there a difference? I am willing to go out there again and try it of course. Feedback? Thanks, Best to all, Laura stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psi and money
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/280)
12:44:46
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
HI Paul, It would seem that the issue of making money from RV or PSI related activities brings out the same emotions that come up when people charge for healing gifts. People are really schizophrenic when it comes to money issues, they want you to use your "God given gifts" to help them for free on demand, which if you are any good would take 24/7, but have severe judgments if you charge for your time. It's funny but the landlord and utility company do not understand this arrangement. It is even funnier that these same people will spend their precious moneys on a variety of less than honorable or frivolous goods and services without hesitation. Your explanation goes right to the heart of the issue. Which is the character of the practitioner, as demonstrated by how they direct their resources. But one step further, attempts of people to hold others to standards higher than those they are willing to live up to, in an attempt to shame these others into giving free services is pure and simple manipulation. In a free market economy, if you value a service you pay for that service. If the service is honestly represented and delivered, that is the end of the story. The idea that one group should try to shame another to "share their God given talents" for free is ludicrous. The idea that we as practitioners would feel wrong for asking fair exchange of our services, demonstrates an illogical belief system. The idea that "God" would frown on the use of healing or PSI gifts, is also illogical, are not our artistic, athletic, or intellectual gifts also "God given". The use of our gifts in integrity is all "God" demands. Unlike a retail store I have modified my fees or even given free services for those in need. I have also found that in most cases people only value what they pay for, and if there is not some sort of exchange for services it is like casting your pearls. I have worked on people who experienced major relief of pain and debilitating symptoms but felt that some how, I , a stranger, owed them this for free to make up for a life where they felt taken advantage of by others... bizarre. Over the years I have come to see these emotional positions taken by people to be more a symptom of their own journey than an indication of some intellectual proof of the morality of fair exchange for the use of ones "God" given gifts. As innately spiritual beings we are all endowed with many gifts, singling out some of them as inappropriate to value, as demonstrated by the exchange of currency, is much more immoral than the implied argument. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/281)
12:44:56
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Hi all; Liam here. Recently there has been some discussion of RV ethics (No Steve, I am not going to open that can of worms, at this time). At Ft Meade, we informed everyone, before they began training, of the potential dangers of RV. This is a requirement of the Department of Defense (DOD) Human Use Regulation and also the US Codes. More important it is the ethical thing to do. A person has the right to know the risks associated with any undertaking. Before I except any student for training I make sure they understand the following: I can promise you that learning RV will change you. Your world view will change. Your priorities will change, and many things about you will change. These changes will begin shortly after you begin training. What I cannot promise you is that these changes will be for the better. I believe that most RVers I know have been changed for what I beleive to be the better. There are those however, whom I consider to not only be different people than they were, but to have changed for the worst. Priorities will change. The ability to go anyplace in the world or out of it takes a lot of the urgency out of getting your monthly report on telephone usage in on time. This is fine if your boss is also on RVer. If he isn't, he may not understand your lack of acknowledgement of the importance of routine paperwork. Learning RV will make you humbler or more egotistical. I cannot predict before you begin the thee training which one you will become. You will become more or less sensitive. You will become more or less intuitive. You may experience short term memory loss. Did I say that earlier? I forget if my memory loss is from RV, old age, or from pouring oceans of Guinness, Tullmore Dew, and Paddy's over my declining number of brain cells for an extended period of time. You will come to realize that the world is different than you thought it was. The rules of physics do not really apply. I believe your spiritual outlook may change. I cannot say if that is good or bad. If you have a history of mental illness RV is probably not for you. What I look for in an RV student is a sound spiritual (not the same as religious) foundation, mental stability, a sense of humor, and humility. Gene and I, being, Irish, come by our humility naturally. In fact I have achieved perfect humility. I am probably the most humble person in the world. A fact I am very proud of . Having done, what I consider to be, my ethical duty to warn everyone, I will now climb off my soap box. slainte May the force be with you. Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning/ memory loss?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/282)
12:45:44
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Liam, I am interested in a comment you made in your WARNING post which mentioned short term memory loss? I say this because I feel my short term memory capabilities have decreased since serious training in RV. Its almost as if something has to be compramised in order for there to be facility for Rv. Do you have any info on this you can share? All the best... Darryl We came... We saw... We wrote a session summery... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning/ memory loss?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/283)
12:46:00
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
> I am interested in a comment you made in your WARNING post which mentioned >short term memory loss? I say this because I feel my short term memory >capabilities have decreased since serious training in RV. Its almost as if >something has to be compramised in order for there to be facility for Rv. >Do you have any info on this you can share? I'd be interested in knowing too. However, it may well be that some could become so absorbed in the practice of rv that they run the risk of being able (wanting) to concentrate much on the more uninteresting (but sometimes necessary) aspects of mundane life. I've always (been told) I have a lousy memory. For example, someone could be speaking to me, I'd 'drift off' thinking about something else, or something connected, and then anxious to catch up I'd ask a question.. the answer to which I'd just been told! This has led to me being labelled 'scatterbrained', and caused comments about my memory all through my life. It used to worry me that I may be a bit thick, until I got older, realised what was happening, and could force myself to stay with the flow (doesn't mean I'm *not* thick though I guess :-). This, and the fact that I fail to 'file away' that which doesn't catch my interest much has caused me untold embarrassment. Thank Goodness I have a job I find interesting....... Hopefully it's just that. I'd hate to lose what little I've got! -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Science vs. Scientism
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/284)
12:46:12
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
News bit: Apparently the UT has concluded their 'target' study with mostly N/A. The Precog target site at www.psiresearch.org/ (Dean Radin's UNLV) is also down or having severe difficultiies. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning/ memory loss?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/285)
12:46:28
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
> I am interested in a comment you made in your WARNING post which mentioned >short term memory loss? I say this because I feel my short term memory >capabilities have decreased since serious training in RV. Its almost as if >something has to be compramised in order for there to be facility for Rv. >Do you have any info on this you can share? > >All the best... > >Darryl Hi Darryl; I posted something similar on PJ's web and got back several replies. Some of them sited scientific studies documenting short term memory loss associated with certain brain activities. I would forward them to you but I have had a computer crash and they were all deleted. Ingo insisted when we were going through training that we take vitamin B. This seems to help. The problem is I keep forgetting to by the vitamins. When I do buy them I forget to take them. When I do remember to take them, I forget where I put them. The answer is to buy about five bottles and stash them all around the house. Hope this helps. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psi and money/personal ethics
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/286)
12:46:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
I must in all honesty agree with much of what Paul says and what Yaana says. imho the dictionary meaning of 'gift' is something one receives the meaning of 'reward' is something we are given, not as a gift, but in return for something we've done There has been a 'sticky wicket' surrounding the use of PSI and money which began, I believe, with Edgar Cayce's experiences. The motives of those who sought to use his abilities to enrich themselves came to grief. Cayce was a man of very high morals. We all respect that. I must, in all honesty, abstract healing from what follows. It is in a separate category also imho. If you feel that PSI and/or remote viewing is something you received as a gift, and did nothing to deserve, then your own natural morality and inner consciousness should be your own best guide. If you are a greedy person, then so be it. If you are in need of money for the utility companies, then so be it. If you have spent years working hard at something, then it might not be a 'gift' but a reward for effort expended unless you want to specify that it is a gift that everyone without exception gets, and that without any hard work or effort, some have been able to exercise it. That's one position. If you have spent years working hard at learning tennis, should you turn down any monetary return for the skill you worked so long and hard to attain? If you have spent years working hard at learning to write, or to paint, or play music, should you turn away payment for your learned skills? Since most of us in this field for several decades are agreed that everyone HAS the ability to develop PSI, and to use it, then its possession could possibly still be considered a gift, but again; then it is a gift we ALL get. We can use it or not, as we choose. I do not believe, as a point of argument, that there is, or should be, any prohibition (or blame) associated with the use of PSI/RV for making money. The purpose of making the money should be what is under judgement, if anything. I also do not believe that anyone who is using the abilities to make an honest living should be chastised or made to feel that they are guilty of some indiscretion. Along the same lines, it is my opinion that adding the words "God-given" to the mix only confuses the issue further. If we are agreed that we have a Creator and that all our talents come from this Creator, then we are back to square one. If one has independent means, or a great job or a fine income, or a nice pension, and wants to use PSI/RV as a sort of 'armchair explorer' technique...then again, so be it. If one lacks the above, then we are in a different category with a different standard. It then becomes not a matter of altruism, but of hard reality and monthly bills. The question then becomes, should those who teach these learned skills, or write about these skills, or who use these skills be subjected to different standards? If so, then why? It would seem to be a personal choice, or a necessity, and nothing for which to be blamed, either way. Although I have chosen to be a writer and a 'field researcher' and not to become a 'reader' (whatever that is construed to be) myself, as I do not feel that path is right for me; there are others who have done so to pay bills, to put a child through College, or just to live. Should they then be held to some higher standard? If we are Christians we have been prohibited from judging others. If we are of some other religious persuasion, the teachings are the same. Bevy J http:www.slipstrym.com/uspsisquad/ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psi and money/personal ethics
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/287)
12:47:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Re: [stargate] Psi and money/personal ethics >I do not believe, as a point of argument, that there is, or should be, any >prohibition (or blame) associated with the use of PSI/RV for making money. Hello, When I made my post I had no idea that I was joining what was going to become a full debate on the topic; I was simply offering my own opinion and was hoping to leave it at that. I believe people should use the technique as they see fit. I'm not qualified to rule on people's use of the technique in their own circumstances; they and only they can judge whether they feel their use of the technique is justified, etc. My comments were personal and limited solely to me. If I develop psi skills, I would like to use them to help others and for healing. I in no way suggested others had to agree with this and I respect other people's opinions on this topic, and they are welcome to make as much money directly or indirectly from the skill as they like. Afterall, what can I do about it, even if I disagree with them? If people want to use psi abilities to enrich themselves, so be it. I will not attempt to stop them (nor could I should I wish it). I, however, would hope I'd use the ability to help others and not just myself. But, again, that is my personal opinion. Everyone has opinions, and they're welcoem to them. I do not believe I am qualified to provide answers to *other* people's moral issues. That's their concern, and depends on their moral and emotional beliefs. I would just like to point out that my small contribution was never intended to be taken quite so literally or disected as advice for others to follow. If I had known that this topic would turn into a full-fledged discussion/debate, I would certainly not have offered my few philosophical thoughts on the subject, because I do not feel I am qualified to comment on other people's philosophical or moral beliefs. Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psi and money/personal ethics
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/288)
12:47:45
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Steve-- At 02:05 PM 7/11/98 +-100, you wrote: >When I made my post I had no idea that I was joining what was going to become >a full debate on the topic; I was simply offering my own opinion and was hoping >to leave it at that. Don't panic! ;-) I myself had forgotten that the psi/money discussion had even begun with you. Don't apologize for starting it. Discussion groups are for bringing up relevant issues of common interest, and giving everyone a chance to speak his/her mind (in a civilized manner, of course!). I don't think any of us thought that you were trying to define anyone's behavior for them. In any case, the psi vs. money issue is an important ancillary issue to psi in general, so I'm glad you brought it up. Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Peer Review
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/289)
12:48:03
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
> Because I understand it may be impractical or extremely difficult > for laboratories to implement this kind of system, I decided > to propose an online psi experiment, which I hope to back with > the same rigorous scientific controls/protocols etc as the original > experiments in the laboratories, in order to attempt to replicate > the findings of the labs. The only difference being the *entire > process* is open to peer-review by *the entire public*, and the > entire public is also free to contribute and participate throughout > each and every stage of the experiment. The only changes I'd > make to be the experiment would be anything that would need to > be modified in order for the experiment to work 'online'. Steve, and anybody else with a scientific background, I would be happy to assist you in any way I can. I worked at the PEAR Lab from 1987 through 1992 as research assistant, as well as participating in other psi lab research (PK and RV). I have on loan from PEAR a Portable true REG, software etc. which I have been using for my Ph.D. Dissertation Research. I also have some new software to undertake Field Consciousness Research (which I plan to implement after I finish writing my Dissertation, sometime nearer the end of this year.)So, I am conversant with psi collection data, analysis, presentation etc. So, any help I can give in these matters please email me privately. I would also be happy to help you set up a target pool of potential targets ie Outbounder or Coordinate. Let me know. Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith The Inner Vision Research Institute stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Chance Expectations
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/290)
12:48:13
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
I know we are moving away from the Red and Black thread but living in Las Vegas I hear some interesting things about the casinos. It seems that if someone at a routlette table is winning big, the pit boss will change dealers, putting in someone who can "throw the numbers". The wife of one of my students (she was a routlette dealer) became so skilled at throwing the ball onto the wheel that she could pretty much choose which number the ball would fall on. I have heard this happens at the Black Jack table too. Regarding whether red or black comes up more often or not, the casinos have the tables and machines geared to giving them back a healthy profit. Sure, some people win, and sometimes there are big winners, but there are more than enough losers to cover the losses. However, wherever there is a random process at work there is also the possibility that human consciousness can intervene and affect the outcome. PEAR has demonstrated this over more than a decade of laboratory studies at a reputable university. Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith MS LAURA J FALLON wrote: So blows my idea that black wins more on a roulette wheel. > Was it movement of the wheel, stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
tapes
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/291)
12:48:52
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Hi John, Inner Vision does not distribute or sell, Ed Dames tapes or any other PsiTech materials or materials from any other RV group. However, when I was in New Zealand in June, the organization there taped a 5-day ER course that I conducted. These tapes are being professionaly edited and will be available for about $75.00 as a 3-tape set in 1998. Please be warned that these tapes WILL NOT teach you ERV, they are not intended to be a teaching tool, just to show the various techniques, methods and protocols that are taught in an ERV course and the kinds of results you can expect. Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith John Krimes wrote: I wanted to get a copy of Daves > PK tape, I looked for it on your news letter archives where I remember > seeing it before but didn't find it this time. Can you tell me if its > still avaliable and the cost? Do you take credit cards? stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning/ memory loss?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/292)
12:49:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Liam, do you still know which vitamine B supplements you took? Or have you forgotten that too ? ;-) All the best Frank V stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning/ memory loss?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/293)
12:49:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Liam, > >do you still know which vitamine B supplements you took? Or have you >forgotten that too ? ;-) > >All the best > >Frank V > Hi Frank; What was your question again. Oh yeah. type of vitamin B did Ingo have us take. You are right I did forget. I think it was either B1 or B2. I just take them all to be sure. Maybe Paul will recall more on this. Of course Paul is not in much better shape memory wise then I am. He has already forgot what a great singer I was/am. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sony psi research closed down
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/294)
12:49:30
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>> I doubt they would've managed to snag a copy of the Tech. Transfer >> Protocols from the farsight site before they were removed, as I >> have.. Hehe.. I wanna see if, at some point I can scrape together >> the resources to start a company based on the application of these >> protocols.. Anyone interested, drop me a line.. >> >> -Tao_Sk8r >As the Operations Director of just such a recovery firm, I dare say >this work is difficult enough without using ANYTHING related to >Courtney Brown as a basis for operations. Do yourself an enormous >favor and get some training from Lyn Buchanan or Paul Smith (both >top-flite CRV instructors)... unless you are trying to gather intel >on the Hale-Bopp Companion. >Good Luck, >Greg Ok, first, lemme say that I appreciate your response.. I just wanted to throw that out there for people to chew on, with the result of hopefully getting some interesting responses, and possibly a dialog.. Second, I have two points of contention with your derision of Courtney Brown.. While I am well aware of his mistake with the Hale-Bopp companion, and paying some attention to the developments on his site, and on Pru's has revealed the reasons behind this 'mistake', with the effext of making it highly avoidable.. The reason I've put mistake in quotes is that a website I've recently viewed has revealed that NASA and others have revealed that there actually was a companion, not to mention the many inexplicable photos I've garnered from various sources with pictures from observatories outside of this country, most notably one from Japan showing highly anomolous detail near HB.. Apologies to all you closed minded individuals who've already lumped me, at this point, firmly in thier wing-nut, flake, etc., list, but when I go grab that website, I'll post the link, and you can view the evidence yourselves.. Oh, and those protocols, though they are somewhat 'related' to Mr. Brown, were actually written, and as far as I know, concieved by Prudence Calabrese, who I hold in the highest regard.. Second, adressing your recommendation about real RV training; I understand your perspective, and indeed intent to make this sort of training a part of my agenda, once I have buko bucks to spare for it.. For now, I'll rely on the free resources, thank you much.. I guess the other reason for my hesitation is that, though it is quite possible I've missed it, as far as I know there are no tech transfer protocols included in the training given by your two recommended instructors.. Regards, Tao_Sk8r stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/295)
12:49:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Gene wrote: >though some swear they have made money in the stock market...and Lyn >even claims to have made money in the lotteries... Not to mention Prudence Calabrese's lottery group, which has done quite well.. Sorry if I seem to be harping on her, but I assure you, it is merely circumstantial.. http://www.largeruniverse.com -Tao_Sk8r stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/296)
12:49:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>>.but don't believe me...State lotteries love to try to prove it to >>you as do the casinos... >> Gene... >Gene's not just being a party pooper, guys, he's tellin' ya straight. >He's been there. Even Lyn will tell you CRV doesn't work on numbers. That's all good and well, but I've seen some discussion which has revealed to me that a great deal of that depends on your preconcieved notions (Belief Systems) about it.. Don't believe it, and you will surely be unable to accomplish it.. Test it out though, it's easy enough, and you don't have to bet to see if you would've won.. I had a friend who could routinely hit 4-5 numbers in the lottery, to the degree that he'd make side bets.. He finally hit 12 mil in Cali, and now I think he's off to wreak havok on other state's lotteries.. By the way, he did guess a few of the numbers correctly for me once, but at that point I didn't really believe enough to place my bet.. Incidentally his method wasn't RV, he would just see numbers on a blackboard, and the correct ones would light up, and he'd filter it down to the right amount of digits.. -Tao_Sk8r stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/297)
12:50:13
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Hi all; Liam here. I have to go along with Greg and Gene on this >one. Maybe it is because making money is not all that important. For those who have incorrectly judged me on my contention that the facts differ about the possibility of using RV for this, I gotta say, I REALLY agree with Liam's assertion here.. I am sure it's possible, but I really don't see it as valuable.. I'd much rather get rich by grabbing patents from the future, and bringing technology to aid mankind to light before it's time.. Maybe some see this as little better, but aside from the opportunity to gain esoteric knowledge, I really don't see a whole bunch of other practical applications for RV besides this.. >Maybe it is because RV is magic and a gift. Using it to make "easy >money" seems a waste of the gift and a perversion of the magic. Yes, yes, and yes.. Very excellently stated Liam.. It is majick, and shouldn't be trivialized in this way for any other purpose than proving it's effectiveness.. > Even ARV has not proved to be terribly effective from the Targ >silver futures to the many attempts to break the bank at Vegas or >win the Lottery (sp correction). There seems to be one exception. >Pat Price evidently made money by RVing. Unfortunately he allegedly >died before he had a chance to enjoy most of it. Like I've said, it's blocked by BS (Belief systems) and monitor overlay.. That's my perspective, and I aint budging! Seriously, if you want proof, go look at Pru's lettory group section! I also gotta take issue with the parable (of a sort) about Pat Price.. While it has been shown that winning the lottery will usually ruin the lives of the winners (who are, maybe by some karmic rule, usually unprepared for winnings effects), this is not nessecarily always the case, and certainly our fears in this area have the potential to defy our courage, and make is surrender at the outset of the battle, as it were.. >I would like to see RV used to make the world a better place. If >that is not possible, then I would like to use RV to make me a better >person. I do not think winning a few million and retiring would make >me a better person. Enjoying the magic and recognizing there may be a >spiritual aspect to RV seems more important to me than taking early >retirement, buying a big house, and making Guinness a richer man >slainte >May the force be with you >Liam Once again, thanks for these points, they bear repeating ad infinitum, until they become ingrained in the consciousness of everyone who would view, and all viewers follow these ideas, instead of the material mundane.. -Tao_Sk8r stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Real World
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/298)
12:50:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
>Hi all; >Liam here. We live in a real world. A world where things are as >they are and not as we think or wish they would be. Welp, although I agree with you totally in spirit, I think the latest quantum thoery would tend to disagree with you about what out world is, in my view 'consensus reality', what ever our conscious and unconscious minds agree is reality, is.. >No elected official can be seen as to supportive of psi, lest it >become common knowledge, and the voters begin to giggle. Old Senator >Smith is talking to angels, won't vote for him again. No CEO can >invest millions of his company's dollars on what a psychic says, or >he will not be CEO very long. I have to disagree here, as well.. History has shown us examples that disprove this assertion.. Reagan consulted an astrologer (and is still greatly beloved by a large, albeit ignorant, segment of the population.. Sometimes I wonder what they'd think if they understood the implications of his executive order crusing much of the power of the FOIA), as does Hilliary (yah, she's not the pres, but her image reflects on his), as have a great number of corporate execs, although I have to admit that the openess with which they do so is somewhat in question.. Many can and do manage to keep this aspect of thier decision making process hidden from view, and proceed with it.. >What I do find strange is when we, who know that RV works, become >indigent and outraged, when businessmen, elected officials, and >researchers choose to live in the real world. Well, that is thier perception of the real world, and sure, when we, as humans know something works, and has unlimited potential, and see it oppressed, ignored, and in many cases ridiculed, we are outraged! As far as we can see, those people need to either grow some frickin' balls, or be a wimp by carrying on with it in secret! Peace, -Tao_Sk8r stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning/ memory loss?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/299)
12:50:32
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
<< The problem is I keep forgetting to by the vitamins. When I do buy them I forget to take them. When I do remember to take them, I forget where I put them. The answer is to buy about five bottles and stash them all around the house. Hope this helps. >> Oh now look what you have started...general panic in the RV community...and the fact is you probably don't even remember what started all of this... Gene... Slainte.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning/ memory loss?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/300)
12:50:46
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000201-000300---------
Liam, et al-- At 09:47 PM 7/11/98 +0200, you wrote: >What was your question again. Oh yeah. type of vitamin B did Ingo have us >take. >You are right I did forget. I think it was either B1 or B2. I seem to recall it was B1; but I think the solution is to take a broad-spectrum supplement so you be sure and get what you need--IF, of course, it really matters. In this case I can't recall that Ingo had strong evidence as to why he thought it was beneficial (but then again, I HAVE been neglecting my vitamins). Remember, though that some of the 'B's are toxic in too large doses (B6 comes to mind, but might be wrong). >to be sure. Maybe Paul will recall more on this. Of course Paul is not in >much better shape >memory wise then I am. He has already forgot what a great singer I was/am. Not at all, Liam. I remember how well you sang "Far Away," and I hope many times to keep hearing you sing "Far Away." Enjoy, Paul

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Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #3. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 201. Last Message Number: 300
First Message Date: July 8, 1998. Last Message Date: July 11, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000201-000300.shtml
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Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)

Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #4. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 301. Last Message Number: 400
First Message Date: July 11, 1998. Last Message Date: July 17, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000301-000400.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



BEGIN ARCHIVE BLOCK #4.

stargate : Message: Re: [stargate] 
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/301)
13:11:49
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Re: [stargate] Red and Black Cards In a message dated 7/11/98 4:06:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, taosk8r@... writes: << Not to mention Prudence Calabrese's lottery group, which has done quite well.. Sorry if I seem to be harping on her, but I assure you, it is merely circumstantial.. http://www.largeruniverse.com >> Gosh darn..that's odd...when I had dinner with Pru the discussion on RI and lotteries did not seem to indicate that at all...but what do I know...I was only talking to her personally and I guess I was captivated by her loveliness...the fact is that people who actually believe their minds can control (let alone read) numbers in the altered state are not going to be persuaded by other facts calling upon common sense...there minds are made up and usually quite closed to serious discussions even from people who have been at the business for a decade or more...but for the benefit of those who are reading this message and slavering all over yourselves at the prospect of making millions in the lotteries..considre these facts...then go buy you dollar ticket at the 7-11 1. Since time and space drop out of the equation in the altered state....how can you be sure of the actual date or place you are supposedly seeing the six numbers in a standard state lottery. Can you be sure the buck you spend in Virginia based upon the wonders of RV is actually for six numbers in the next lottery in Virginia...How do you know those wonderful six numbers are not the numbers from six weeks ago or for six weeks from now...better yet..how do you know if the numbers are actually from the Virginia lottery and not from the German or French lottery or California or Japanese lottery...remember time and space don't count... 2. Look at the number 6...now look at the number 9...If you do not know what is up or down...like an astronaut in space...how can you be sure the 6 or is it a 9 is actually right side up... 3. Look at the following six numbers...6 - 16 - 24 - 28 - 31 - 43...These are winners incidentally...GUARANTEED...They are my numbers...I play them twice a week and have played them now for four years...I have won about $1,000 so I am ahead...No RV..I just used birthdays and ages of my family...stuff like that...Now look at these six numbers... 6 - 16 - 42 - 28 - 13 - 34...note that all of the number from the first six numbers are there...the sequence in which they appear have been changed slightly...very slightly...but this six number sequence would not have won the $1,000 would it...So how can someone be so sure that the six numbers are THAT correct and are PERFECTLY aligned that they represent the actual six numbers... 4. Finally, an I realize I am probably flogging a dead horse on this one...but playing a future lottery using RV is actually using RV to read the future. Since the future is not set .. subtle changes made in the present will affect the outcome of the future...makingwhat you see no longer valid..At the time you have viewed the six numbers..you presumbly have not already played the numbers...therefore by actually playing them after viewing them..you have affected the future...sorry...you have doused you own fire when you do this... But, like I said...aspiring millionaires will not be deterred by voices of reason so please continiue to play your dollars...7-11 appreciates it and so do I because it tends to build the pots up to very respectable amounts which will eventually be paid to someone like me...Hahahah Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning/ memory loss?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/302)
13:11:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Re: [stargate] Warning/ memory loss? Paul H. Smith wrote: > I seem to recall it was B1; but I think the solution is to take a > broad-spectrum supplement so you be sure and get what you need-- Nowadays the broad spectrum vitamin/mineral supplements are fairlywell-balanced. You will note that B1, 2, and 6 are present in much smaller amounts than B-12. Plus the multi-vitamin approach contains essential minerals such as calcium/magneseum that assist in the body's assimilation of any vitamin. One vitamin taken alone is unlikely to be of much benefit and (just like too much Guinness in excess) certain vitamins can indeed be harmful. Before embarking on any regimen other than a simple multi-vitamin approach, I'd get one of the many good books that are out there and read up on the subject. Shelia stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/303)
13:12:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Re: [stargate] Red and Black Cards Curran2106@... wrote: > 1. Since time and space drop out of the equation in the altered state....how > can you be sure of the actual date or place you are supposedly seeing the six > numbers in a standard state lottery. I am reminded of one of the winners of the Texas lottery. The man had a dream inwhich he saw all six of the winning numbers. Now this was a simple man with no knowledge of the subtler issues surrounding psi; and yet even he knew that although the numbers were the winning numbers, that when they might appear was up for grabs. So he simply bet his set of numbers every week for one year: and won. Shelia stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Peer Review
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/304)
13:12:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Re: [stargate] Peer Review >Steve, and anybody else with a scientific background, I would be happy to >assist you in any way I can. I worked at the PEAR Lab from 1987 through >1992 as research assistant, as well as participating in other psi lab >research (PK and RV). Angela, I am very interested in your offer of help and would greatly appreciate any help, especially in the early stages. I'll be in touch with e-mail on you about this, but I just wanted to take the chance to say thanks for the offer.. I'd welcome and and all tips or advice from ex- or current-laboratory scientists working in this field in setting up this online experiment. Thanks! Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
describing the wrong ideogram
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/305)
13:12:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Hi, Pardon my intrusion on the current threads of psi experiments and psi ethics, but I had a question regarding coming up with Phase 2 descriptors for the wrong Phase 1 ideograms. I recently did a practice target without a monitor, in which the feedback photo showed two famous people waving as they were driving by a crowd of people. The ideograms, that I came up with were: Natural Biological Land Motion Manmade When I went to Phase 2, I came up with 14 descriptors for the Natural Ideogram which by looking at the feedback seemed to actually be descriptors for one of the manmades. This section also produced a Phase 3 drawing, which somewhat matched the descriptors for the same manmade. When I did the Phase 2 for the Biological, I got a SC/AOL which was "there are no biologicals". Nothing more came in for the Biological. I moved onto the Land ideogram, and wrote down descriptors, which were either wrong or unverifiable. The same for the Motion ideogram. (I did have a SC/AOL which was "there is no motion", but managed to come up with a couple of descriptors). Finally, with the Manmade ideogram, I came up with some descriptors which matched aspects of some of the Manmades. Besides working with a capable monitor, what could I do to remedy these types of problems when working alone? If this was a real vs. practice target, would any of the scrambled data be salvagable? Regards, Roger stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning/ memory loss?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/306)
13:12:47
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Re: [stargate] Warning/ memory loss? Taking vitamins is an art in itself.... Yes..the whole spectrum of nutrients must be consider when taking vitamins since one type may deplenish the activity of another. Also, vitamins are basically co-enzymes....they do nothing unless you are backing it up with good meals. As far as vitamins, I would recommend those vitamins that stimulate the mental function and do not interfere with the balance of the body system...such as Lecithin, Choline, Phosphatidylserine. In herbs Ginko Biloba and Gotu Kola. Of course this is a simplified intake since, for example, Choline depends on B5 to assimilate it.... So, the idea that you can take just one B vitamin or the B Complex alone is a farce. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/307)
13:12:59
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Hi Gene: I was one of 50 to 60 people trying to guess lottery numbers through Pru's TDS site. We were broken into 3 groups. According to Pru's feedback, at least 2, if not all 3 groups made some money. Not piles of money, mind you, but one group accrued about $1100 according to Prudence. And that was only with buying a single ticket for each draw. I wonder if you had dinner with her prior to this. ?? Not _all_ of your objections would apply. We were not trying to "view" the numbers. We used an associative scheme whereby the fingers and thumbs of our hands indicated single digits. Therefore, the upside down 9 versus 6 issue was irrelevant. As for your objections about viewing the correct date of the lottery, wouldn't it be enough to simply state which lottery you are targetting and give a date in the tasking? A "dead horse" you say? Huh! Gambling will never be a dead horse! Do I expect to win doing this? Heck, I don't know. But I'll tell you this. It's interesting and it's kind of fun. Don't want to hear 15 year RV veterans tell me it can't be done. :<) Gene wrote: >Gosh darn..that's odd...when I had dinner with Pru the discussion on RI and >lotteries did not seem to indicate that at all...but what do I know...I was >only talking to her personally and I guess I was captivated by her >loveliness... Rick Stordeur Vancouver Island stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/308)
13:13:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Rick Stordeur wrote: > Hi Gene: > > I was one of 50 to 60 people trying to guess lottery numbers through Pru's > TDS site. We were broken into 3 groups. According to Pru's feedback, at > least 2, if not all 3 groups made some money. Not piles of money, mind you, > but one group accrued about $1100 according to Prudence. And that was only > with buying a single ticket for each draw. I wonder if you had dinner with > her prior to this. ?? > I was in group 2. Everyone made a little money. We each turned in our numbers on the day of the lottery. Pru would look them over and take the numbers that were duplicated, and buy a ticket for each group. We were just going to start rolling the winnings into some more tickets, so each team member could win $50 or $100 instead of $50 or $100 to be split by the team, when Pru started traveling and was not home enough to do the lottery any more.. it is still a good idea. Gives you incentive to practice, and has definitely verifiable results. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards--lottery
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/309)
13:13:31
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> > I was one of 50 to 60 people trying to guess lottery numbers through Pru's > > TDS site. We were broken into 3 groups. According to Pru's feedback, at > > least 2, if not all 3 groups made some money. Not piles of money, mind you, > > but one group accrued about $1100 according to Prudence. And that was only > > with buying a single ticket for each draw. I wonder if you had dinner with > > her prior to this. ?? > > > I was in one of the groups and was supposed to be a few bucks ahead. I guess its still in the kitty. It was an interesting experiment. I was never comfortable with the method and if getting RV data seems detached....the finger exercise was even more "remote". As often as not I didn't send in any numbers because I didn't "get" any numbers. I didn't want to contaminate the pool. What was interesting was that there did seem to be an extraordinary hit rate. Maybe someone can obtain the data from Prudence. But...also she was using some kind of number crunching method to select from all the numbers sent to her. It would seem that this part of the process would totally overlay or distort any psi data unless somehow the universal whatever is itself a big number cruncher. The bottom line is that the process seemed to be producing some unusual results, didnt take much time to do, and was easier then going out for a quick pick.....especially living in North Carolina....where there are no lotteries. Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/310)
13:13:42
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<< Don't want to hear 15 year RV veterans tell me it can't be done. :<) >> Sorry...but it can't be done...horse is now dead...I will not comment on it again...enjoy your villa in Barbadoes and your Aston Martin... gene... stargate : Message: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/311)
13:13:53
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For you military RV studs and other skilled RV'ers. Have you found that having a session in the same room together contaminates the session. Also, does Hal Puthoff holds seminars? electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/312)
13:14:03
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> > But, like I said...aspiring millionaires will not be deterred by voices of > > reason so please continiue to play your dollars...7-11 appreciates it and so > > do I because it tends to build the pots up to very respectable amounts which > > will eventually be paid to someone like me...Hahahah > > > > Gene.. Actually with the lottery club, there was no need to try and break the bank. A group of people targeting the next drawing, and combining results can consistently get a better than even return. If from a $1 dollar investment the proceeds are rolled into new tickets, this little amusement and practice exercise can develop quite nicely, without having to hit the big one. If the only validation is viewed as breaking the bank, the more intelligent strategy of just consistently beating the odds and rolling over your winnings, is overlooked. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/313)
13:14:15
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electrix wrote: > [snip]. > > Have you found that having a session in the same room together > contaminates the session. > > [snip] > electrix Dear Electrix, This would probably be a good question submit to Leonard Buchanan. You maybe remember that Lyn - first choosed to train people *individualy* in RV, - an now teaches CRV to groups. This would be probably also a good question to Angela Thompson-Smith (Inner Vision Institute, Las Vegas NV), or Bevy Jaegers (U.S Psi Squad, St-Louis MO). Both of them have an experience in teaching efficiently various kinds of RV methods to small groups in the same room. Imho, this question raises an interresting point concerning not so much the session itself (which looks often as a very individual-inner-process, even in groups) than the result of the session. I remember, for example, that we did once a group RV session with 14 persons in the same room. We were given a sealed enveloppe, which circulated from hand to hand, and we had to view the origin of the content. The answers were as follows: - for the two firts persons : Mediterranean Sea - and suddenly for the eleven next persons : Greece. When it came to the last viewer to answer, he said "Greece" too ! At the end of the exercise, the teacher opened the enveloppe and showed us a little beige stone from a Romanian bridge called "Le pont du Gard" (South part of France). We were all wrong except the last guy who revealed afterwards that he had the good answer but changed his mind at the last minute after discovering what was answered by the most part of the groupe :) A friend of mine underlined at that occasion that this is a well-know experience in group-psychology (for details see Solomon Ash [1951, 1955, 1956]) on influencing and/or conformity effects. To make it short, if I remember well : when 9 people in a group of 10 persons answer "yes" to a question (even if this answer is wrong) the last person to talk may say "yes" too, under group's pressure, in around 33% of the cases (even if this last person thinks the good answer to the question is "no"). Hope this helps. Thanks electrix, thanks Steve for this interesting forum. Jean-Luc. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/314)
13:14:30
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hm15 wrote: > electrix wrote: > > > [snip]. > > > > Have you found that having a session in the same room together > > contaminates the session. > > > > [snip] > > > electrix > HI Electrix, In HRVG we hold class 3 times a week. In these classes we will have from 4 to 14 students all shooting the same targets. For the most part we shoot validation targets, targets that at the end of class you can look at the data and know whether it is good or not. What happens in the group is that generally one person will get what we call the sweet spot, the most direct congruent aspect of the target, the others pick up on upper and lower side band aspects, that is to say some may focus on details of terrain or structures or equipment or associated people, that were at target but not the main aspect. Viewers not on the sweet spot will still have good target data, but the majority of their data will be on another aspect of the target. Shooting targets in a group gives a greater volume of data for the analyst, particular focus is put on things that show up in 2 or more sessions, most of our students will get good congruent target data each session now, but depending on the clarity of focus and how well it is recorded. Some may have basic gestalts, say tall verticals, while another may draw the Tower of London, with details of the gates and draw bridge. Practice and discipline, as well as having a good day contribute to the level of clarity and therefor how much high level data is recorded. The HRVG works targets in groups all the time, our homework is done solo, some like homework better because if they are disciplined they are guaranteed the sweet spot, they do not have to compete for it. But group sessions have a very valuable contribution to project development with intricate data. If you want to see some examples of this work go to www.hrvg.org we have post many of our sessions as well as practice targets. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: [stargate]
Question 2: Physiology
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/315)
13:14:41
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I noticed that while doing several sessions in the RV workshop, I became "drained" for a lack of better word. It was almost like lethargy in that, even though I was anxious to tackle more sessions it was like my body was saying "no, I just want to relax." When I felt the "vibe" of the group, it felt the same way...as if everyone was interested in learning more but would delay its progress by prolonging the question and answer periods. In the past, doing other practices, this has came up. It was the use of excessive mental activity that slumped my body. Usually, I would rejuvinate by observing the environment. Any of you ran into this physiological reaction? electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
describing the wrong ideogram
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/316)
13:14:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Hi Roger; Liam here. First of all the site is a stage 4 site and IMO it cannot be resolved in stage 2 or 3. (I will not even go into the time problems of viewing an event that took place in the past. It can easily be done, but it MUST be addressed in the tasking) I am not sure what a biological ideogram is. Normally, at least for me, that infomation comes in very easily in stage 4. For me, stage 2s tend to relate to the entire site, rather han a specific ideogram. \Stage 2s in stage 4 are T specific. My wife, and some students, can put stage 2 descriptors towards a specific ideogram, so I know it can be done. But with stage 4 it is much more certain. I do not know this helped anyslainte May the force be with you Liam > >Pardon my intrusion on the current threads of psi experiments and psi ethics, >but I had a question regarding coming up with Phase 2 descriptors for the; >wrong >Phase 1 ideograms. I recently did a practice target without a monitor, in >which the feedback photo showed two famous people waving as they were >driving by a crowd of people. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question 2: Physiology
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/317)
13:15:05
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Hi Liam here Remote viewing is tiring. endurance must be built up.A long session is like running a Martha, or boxing 10 rounds. It takes time to recover. A monitor always watches for the fatigue factor. fatigue tends to degrade information. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/318)
13:15:17
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> For the most part we shoot validation targets, targets that at the end of > class you can look at the data and know whether it is good or not. What > happens in the group is that generally one person will get what we call the > sweet spot, the most direct congruent aspect of the target, the others pick > up on upper and lower side band aspects, that is to say some may focus on > details of terrain or structures or equipment or associated people, that > were at target but not the main aspect. Viewers not on the sweet spot will > still have good target data, but the majority of their data will be on > another aspect of the target. > That is consistent with what I observed in my sessions in a group. What I always wonder, is why isn't double-blind session used for training. It seems that if the monitor is front loaded it is easy to make the analysis interpretation from the session results to the target. I would be interested in knowing if any instructor use the double-blind method, make the analysis, gather all common Gestalt items and THEN present the students with the Target to look at the congruency. > The HRVG works targets in groups all the time, our homework is done solo, > some like homework better because if they are disciplined they are > guaranteed the sweet spot, they do not have to compete for it. But group > sessions have a very valuable contribution to project development with > intricate data. I like this idea of weekly classes instead of the weekend workshop or one week session arrangement. I believe you are right. Some day(s), we are not up to performing well. Lord help the novice if we are on the weekend course and that attitude kicks in. > If you want to see some examples of this work go to www.hrvg.org we have > post many of our sessions as well as practice targets. Been there and done that! I am impressed! thanks electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/319)
13:15:28
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
> I would be interested in knowing if any instructor use the double-blind method, > make the analysis, gather all common Gestalt items and THEN present the students > with the Target to look at the congruency. > Our instructor gives as a lecture for an hour, then puts the target ID on the board and leaves for an hour and a half. When he return we review everyone s work, discuss we we "KNOW" about the target, and after what seems an eternity, get to see what the target is :D Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/320)
13:15:48
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>Since the future is not set .. subtle changes made in the present >will affect the outcome of the future...making what you see no longer valid..At >the time you have viewed the six numbers..you presumbly have not already >played the numbers...therefore by actually playing them after viewing >them..you have affected the future...sorry...you have doused you own fire when >you do this... > Hello Gene, How does this stack up then with Joes new book, in which he rvs the (potential) future? Does the writing and publishing of it somewhat invaldate it? If so, why bother. Regards, MaryD stargate : Message: [stargate]
Real time targets
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/321)
13:15:58
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Please offer some advice and means for setting myself real time targets. Thankyou in advance, MaryD stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question 2: Physiology
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/322)
13:16:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
From: electrix Subject: [stargate] Question 2: Physiology >I noticed that while doing several sessions in the RV workshop, I became >"drained" for a lack of better word. It was almost like lethargy in............ >In the past, doing other practices, this has came up. It was the use of >excessive mental activity that slumped my body. Usually, I would >rejuvinate by observing the environment. > >Any of you ran into this physiological reaction? >> Hi electrix, Yes, I have experienced the lethargy, actually I am just flat out of it, the body and actions of it running on pure rote, particularly after viewing a strong energy target. The only way I have found to bring my main view point back to physical, is to just give in, and "sleep it off," sort a speak ... after writing down the target data, I lay down go into deep sleep for a bit, wake up with a much clearer head (phased back into the physical view), and tons of energy, strength in my body...... That is works best for me. ~Terri~ P.S. go do your Gateway program. stargate : Message: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/323)
13:16:18
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Hi everybody, I was just wondering what would happen if a viewer went through a known dimensional portal. Would it be similiar to where a person can go to levels 34 and 35 (non physical) as taught by the Monroe Institute. It is said that a person can't stay at levels 34/35 for very long or they won't come back -- they will lose their earth ties and will die. Does anyone know anything about this? Is it safe to go through a dimensional portal? What could happen? Just wondering about this wonderful world of ours! Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/324)
13:16:29
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
In a message dated 7/12/98 10:36:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ladyley@... writes: << How does this stack up then with Joes new book, in which he rvs the (potential) future? Does the writing and publishing of it somewhat invaldate it? If so, why bother. >> Mary...You are not reading my postings....What I said was that the future is not set....You most certainly can view the future and if you do nothing to attempt to change it...it will occur as you see it...If, on the other hand, you take pro-active steps to affect the future...then it changes...The old military unit was sometime used by the Secret Service to view specific places where the President would speak and to see if there was "future" danger....If we saw something...an explosion, a gunshot .. fire...etc...they would take very proactive steps to change the scenario of the planned appearance and shazzaaammmm...Nothing happened....Were we wrong in what we saw...?...I don't know but I know the SS thought enough of our techniques to make the changes... Regards...Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/325)
13:16:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
<< Is it safe to go through a dimensional portal? What could happen? Just wondering about this wonderful world of ours! Jane ---- >> Jane...One of my recent graduates...I think you know her...was introduced to several "dimensional" gateways and came away from them feeling great. She is a courageous and gifted viewer but I intentionally rigged the session so that her contact with these gateways were only peripheral to prevent her from passing through these gateways. I regret it now because she found out what I did and gave me hell for it. It was an old bias of mine and I unnecessarily foisted it on her. I have other places that seem to be gateways to other dimensions / universes and one day I will slip one of these to her in a practice session and this time I will give her enough lead to permit her to pass through. When that happens, I will let you know if she ever returns..hahah Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/326)
13:16:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
>is said that a person can't stay at levels 34/35 for very long or they >won't come back -- they will lose their earth ties and will die. I have no personal experience with wave VI, as I am just beginning. I have, however, had some friends relate to me that they feel as long as you intend to return you will. Whether this has any basis as being factual or not I can't say. I would imagine that your state of mind has alot to do with the results though. Again...I am a novice and this is just pondering on my part. Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/327)
13:17:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Hi Vikki, Yes, I have heard the same thing -- that the intent is what gets you there and what gets you back. So, you have received training at Monroe? What programs have you done? Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/328)
13:17:19
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> Yes, I have heard the same thing -- that the intent is what gets you >there and what gets you back. It makes sense to me that that would be true. Similar, I think, to what some refer to as cording yourself, but instead of the visualization of a physical cord it is all contained within ones desire and intent to return. Same thing, I suppose just a different way of going about it. > So, you have received training at Monroe? What programs have you done? Oh No! I haven't trained at the Monroe Institute, not that I wouldn't love to one day ;-) I have started the Gateway series here at home. In the future, when the boy-child is a bit older and I have a few less animals to look after.... ;-) Have you studied at Monroe? I would very much love to hear of your experiences whether at Monroe or at home. If this is an inappropriate topic for this list please feel free to post me privately. Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/329)
13:17:33
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Gene, You never cease to amaze me, when you come up with little gems like this. You guys are fascinating. Do you realise this? I'm _not_ sticking any of you on an even higher pedestal than you already are, or I wouldn't be able to see you. Regards MaryD. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/330)
13:17:43
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Gene wrote:- >Jane...One of my recent graduates...I think you know her...was introduced to >several "dimensional" gateways and came away from them feeling great. And added >I have other places that seem to be gateways to other >dimensions / universes Gene would you please expand on this.!?!?! Inquisitive as ever....MaryD. Of course, you could always ask the bl##dy woman (me) to shut up. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/331)
13:17:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
> dimensions / universes and one day I will slip one of these to her in a > practice session and this time I will give her enough lead to permit her to > pass through. When that happens, I will let you know if she ever > returns..hahah > Gene... > ---- Dear Gene, Since your gifted student is my dear friend, I just wanted to know if it was safe to go through an interdimensional portal. I know she has gone through other types of what I would call "magic" places, but this is something different. To your knowledge has anyone ever tried it? I have these fears that she will try it and won't come back to her body -- leaving it in a comotose state, or will come back psychotic. Yes, I know I am a worrier, but I do not want to lose a good friend. ON THE OTHER HAND, oh the stories she could tell!!! Ha ha ha... Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel-Monroe
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/332)
13:19:36
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<< >is said that a person can't stay at levels 34/35 for very long or they >won't come back -- they will lose their earth ties and will die. I have no personal experience with wave VI, OK.... you all, discussing on of my favorite focus levels... I have spent a great deal of time exploring the focus 34 etc... I go, I come back, (simply shift my point of view) I am alive and kicking ... its a great place to visit but I cant -wont-dont wanna live there... (I have as my major, a physical viewpoint right now) I dont have nor need any guides, no silver cords nor tethers, no "protection," no crystals, no prayers, no chants, no incense burning, blah blah blah blahs ... just my little old self comes and goes as I will or change my point of view.... also no fear. BIG PLUS. (what I am is magic :-) as I am just beginning. I have, however, had some friends relate to me that they feel as long as you intend to return you will. Whether this has any basis as being factual or not I can't say. I would imagine that your state of mind has alot to do with the results though. Again...I am a novice and this is just pondering on my part. Siochain, Vikki >> stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/333)
13:19:46
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
<< Gene would you please expand on this.!?!?! Inquisitive as ever....MaryD. Of course, you could always ask the bl##dy woman (me) to shut up. ---- >> Mary...I never tell people to shut up...they usually tell me to piped down...What I was saying is that there are certain sites which have very strong energies and when approached in RV altered state, there is a consistent reference by all viewers to the fact of these energies and the fact it seems to lead somewhere...I will not say where these are since that serves no purpose however Liam and I both have had experiences with our students in which these sites were encountered and wonderous and exhilerating things happen... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/334)
13:19:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
<< To your knowledge has anyone ever tried it? I have these fears that she will try it and won't come back to her body -- >> Jane...Remember..when you are RV'ing a site, you are not really there...only your mental state is there....not your body..therefore it would be impossible for a viewer's body NOT to come back..they are not there...as far as their minds being left behind...also not possible...in reality only one side of the mind is actually viewing (the right side) and when a viewer wakes..it goes into a subservient role and allows the Left side to take over....in other words...if a viewer goes into a dimensional warp or whatever it is...if they do not respond to verbal commands to return (and that happens very often incidentally...viewers sometimes like being where they are)...all the monitor has to do is go over to them and give them a nudge of a pinch and shazaam...they are Left Brain back in the room and complaining about the pinch...Go ahead and knock yourself out in these sites....when the commericial come on...you will wake up... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel-Monroe
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/335)
13:20:07
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>I dont have nor need any guides, no silver cords nor tethers, no >"protection,"no crystals, no prayers, no chants, no incense burning, >blah blah blah blahs ... just my little old self comes and goes as I >will or change my point of view.... also no fear. Agreed. Although I've been tsk tsk'd by some of my more new agey friends as they are quite convinced that unless I start protecting myself I'm going to become a Scoobie snack for some evil entity ;-) Oh..well..their fear. For myself, I prefer looking at the whole experience from a learning/gathering perspective. Each experience being wonderful and as you say magic in and of itself. Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...group training
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/336)
13:20:27
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Jean Luc: In answer to your Post on 'influencing' other viewers, this is the reason that our training methods in group prohibit any spoken words. The target input MUST be written down by each viewer. We discovered that fact early on when inquiring Police would attend meetings and what they said tended to influence Psi Squad Members. In one case, the cops were certain a girl had been kidnapped and killed. However, we thought she was alive and in CA. It took a while to sort that one out, but she definitely was alive and in CA. Group training is hard enough, without control and careful techniques. It can be done, but the fules have to be followed. As the Psi Squad also works in/as a group, from 3 to 12 members present at a meeting, the same rules are always followed, and all rv information is first hand-written onto a Squad Response Form way before any verbal discussion. When working online, this is not a problem. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/337)
13:20:36
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
elextrix: As you will have gathered from response to 'Question' some of us do hold group Seminars. Since 1965 in my/our case. In such training there must be rules, and this factor of 'contamination' is a highly important one in several ways, not just the verbal-response one. :) It would be better, perhaps if all training was done one-on-one, but that is not always possible for all of us who do train. However, there are always ways to prohibit each of the problems, which must be followed. If you will go to the VWR and PSI List archives on PJ's site, you will find an entire sequence of Posts on Target Contamination, which will also be of interest to you. It was just last Spring, so shouldn't be hard to locate. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Warning/ memory loss?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/338)
13:20:49
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Paul: In about 1975, I believe, there was a huge Educators/Institutions meeting in St. Louis at the Convention Center. One of the speakers, who was 'into' Parapsychology research devoted some time to informing the attendees that excessive use of PSI caused a lowering of several body factors, one of which was a lowering of potassium and one was B- Complex. If it is important, I can contact someone who was at that meeting and get the name of the sponsoring group as well as the date? The information given was not news to us, but it was scientific confirmation of an observed effect. lol we always enjoy it when science confirms something.... lol Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/339)
13:20:59
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
At 09:07 PM 7/12/98 +0100, you wrote: >I'm _not_ sticking any of you on an even higher pedestal than you already >are, or I wouldn't be able to see you. That't it, Mary--juussst keep feeding his ego. He'll follow you anywhere! ;-) Enjoy, Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/340)
13:21:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
electrix: I cannot speak for any other trainers, but we do often use double-blind and sometimes triple-blind targets. That's hard to set up very often, but it can be done. The last 'target' on our website was a triple-blind. We got one accurate, direct hit from a new Squad Member in Nevada. No sensory clues, either, naturally. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/341)
13:21:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
electrix-- At 10:35 PM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >Have you found that having a session in the same room together >contaminates the session. I've never been involved in something of this nature. But since Ingo's approach involves verbalizing everything you get, at the very least it would seem that external disctractions might interfere with the process if more than one person were viewing at the same time in the same room. >Also, does Hal Puthoff holds seminars? Nope. I hire him to give a presentation on the early days of RV to my basic courses, but it's tough enough for him to find the time to even do that. he's spending most of his waking hours (and probably some when he should be sleeping) working on zero-point energy and warp drive stuff. Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/342)
13:22:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
>I've never been involved in something of this nature. But since Ingo's >approach involves verbalizing everything you get, at the very least it >would seem that external disctractions might interfere with the process if >more than one person were viewing at the same time in the same room. roger... Re: Puthoff >Nope. I hire him to give a presentation on the early days of RV to my >basic courses, but it's tough enough for him to find the time to even do >that. he's spending most of his waking hours (and probably some when he >should be sleeping) working on zero-point energy and warp drive stuff. Thanks for the info. I ... thought so. I have read some of his papers. I think it's awesome. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/343)
13:22:10
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Well Bevy, literally one step ahead of me, LOL! I am glad to see that some instructors are doing it. It approximates reality. Although I suppose at first it's okay to start of single blind. But I usually am hard on myself in getting knowledge. Thanks Bevy.... electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/344)
13:22:30
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
> If you will go to the VWR and PSI List archives on PJ's site, you will find an > entire sequence of Posts on Target Contamination, which will also be of > interest to you. > It was just last Spring, so shouldn't be hard to locate. > Bevy J > Will check into it. Thanks. 'lectrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question 2: Physiology
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/345)
13:22:39
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
> ... after writing down the > target data, I lay down go into deep sleep for a bit, wake up with a much > clearer head (phased back into the physical view), and tons of energy, > strength in my body...... That is works best for me. > ~Terri~ > P.S. go do your Gateway program. Ha,ha,ha....so it is YOU! Guess what?!! Looks like it just might happen! ;-) 'lectrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/346)
13:22:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Yaana Allen wrote: > Our instructor gives as a lecture for an hour, then puts the target ID on the board > and leaves for an hour and a half. When he return we review everyone s work, > discuss we we "KNOW" about the target, and after what seems an eternity, get to see > what the target is :D Hmmmm... sounds like a reasonable approach..... 'lectrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel-Monroe
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/347)
13:22:57
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Hello Teri, So flying around area 34 now! Well don't keep us in suspense, cutie. What did you see. Was it similar to the Monroe depiction or what? Earthbound Admirer ( for now) Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question 2: Physiology
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/348)
13:23:09
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Ha,ha,ha....so it is YOU! Guess what?!! Looks like it just might happen! ;-) 'lectrix >> Hi Electrix...... :-) The reason I am pushing you to Gateway is because you dont realize how much your energy changed after you did the weekend workshop.... ~Terri~ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/349)
13:23:27
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Gene, You are the most aggravating article, I have ever encountered. You feed these enticing little titbits, and then add just enough to keep me begging for more.... ;-). Can you explain _at least_ the kind of experiences which may be experienced. MaryD. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel-Monroe
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/350)
13:23:39
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
<< So flying around area 34 now! Well don't keep us in suspense, cutie. What did you see. Was it similar to the Monroe depiction or what? >> Ya do put a big smile on my face Lancelot . . . . I love the energy 'feel' of the 'higher' (?) focus levels... But focus 12 is an absolute awesome state, can be physical or nonphysical... works well with our current main viewpoint... :-) for myself visualization starts here, from 12, I can be anywhere.... or I can just "be." The focus levels are hard for me to explain ... all I can tell you is what sets true for my self..... and for me it is all just more of a knowingness. What do I see in a high energy focus level? ummmm probably a lot of AOL... I dont understand it, so I put something there too understand, communicate with. Someplaces you feel, some places you 'know.' I am not aware of where Mr. Monroe, has described F 34.... Have you read his books... ~T~ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel-Monroe
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/351)
13:23:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
<< Agreed. Although I've been tsk tsk'd by some of my more new agey friends as they are quite convinced that unless I start protecting myself I'm going to become a Scoobie snack for some evil entity ;-) I, nor anyone else, nor anything, can be the wind beneath your wings... Follow your gut instincts, they are correct.... Everything will be in a perfect time, in a perfect place. I think you will find that all you need is 'you', which is of course the source, the basic, the ultimate ... :-) ~Terri~ Oh..well..their fear. For myself, I prefer looking at the whole experience from a learning/gathering perspective. Each experience being wonderful and as you say magic in and of itself. >> stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psi and money/personal ethics
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/352)
13:24:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
> >When I made my post I had no idea that I was joining what was going to become > >a full debate on the topic; I was simply offering my own opinion and was > hoping > >to leave it at that. > > Don't panic! ;-) I myself had forgotten that the psi/money discussion had > even begun with you. Don't apologize for starting it. Discussion groups > are for bringing up relevant issues of common interest, and giving everyone > a chance to speak his/her mind (in a civilized manner, of course!). I > don't think any of us thought that you were trying to define anyone's > behavior for them. In any case, the psi vs. money issue is an important > ancillary issue to psi in general, so I'm glad you brought it up. > > Enjoy! > Paul Steve: Big ol' ditto on that, Paul. The only glitch is in the fact that my and Gene's definition of "civilized manner" may vary somewhat from normal people's. I apologize in advance for my future brusque postings. It is my most fervent hope that you gambling afficianados prove me to be totally wrong, establish reliable protocols for games of chance, and share them with me. I want to believe Greg stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/353)
13:24:40
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Hello Yaana, The more the merrier, would seem to be true for targeting, unless you get what Paul calls pychic overlay. Did you have a protocol to avoid that? Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psi and money
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/354)
13:24:54
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
> For the time being, I'm agnostic about whether one can make money by > directly using RV or other psi techniques for making money in games of > chance. however, the whole issue of money and psi is a sticky one. There > are those who think that it's okay to make money by charging money for > training or services (I'm obviously squarely in that camp! ;-), there are > those that think that making money with it at all is wrong, and there are > others who only think that making money by using psi in gambling games is > wrong Hi all. I've been lurking lately, but this thread about making money and psi is right up my alley and I must add my $.02 worth. You CAN consistently and reliably make money using psi via ARV. It's a LOT of work, and quite tricky, but can be done. The biggest obstacle for most is the FEAR of making money! Just reading the posts on this subject is evidence that fear of financial success is wide spread. In what way would you think that you don't deserve it? Society has taught us to fear money. "That filthy Lucre!" "Money grubbing", "as unlikely as a rich man going to heaven" etc., etc. Why would using my athletic gifts to make money be any different than using my psi gifts? And are they all that different? How much psi is involved when Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretsky achieve championship status for their respective teams? I am an entrepreneur and started a software company about 15 years ago. I was very successful and sold my company a few years ago to a much larger corporation. I'm now retired and spend my time researching and studying associative remote viewing and the future. I am certain that I was successful in business in part because of my psi abilities. I used my intuition a lot when making decisions and I always seemed to make the right ones. It was only recently that I discovered a possible reason why - something that I did not believe in before - psi. I am wondering how many other successful entrepreneurs have also made their fortunes by using their innate psi abilities? In what way is that different than isolating your psi skills and using only that to succeed at achieving your goals? Relativity plays a big role in determining our perspective on this topic. A couple of hundred years ago it was immoral and against the church to charge interest for lending money. It was also frowned upon to use your god given talents and gifts for anything OTHER than the holiest of purposes - to worship God. That was the consensus relative to that time. Relative to THIS day and age, it's nonsense! I am ultimately altruistic though, but that's my own personal perspective - that shouldn't in and of itself, justify making money from psi. My hope is to eventually be able to bring some substantial proof to who ever wants to listen as to the validity of the phenomenon. To ultimately direct attention to the higher self, the spirit, the creator, God, the whole spiritual side that is born from an initial interest in remote viewing. What better way to attract the worlds attention than with some financial success? If anyone is interesting in more information, please contact me - I'm an open book! No secrets, no charge! gk stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psi and money
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/355)
13:25:04
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
> But there is a further variable that is often forgotten--the REASON one > wants to make money in the first place. I suspect that if one has worthy > goals for the money, one may well be successful in many pursuits involving > psi and money. Whew! Paul, you can't imagine what a sigh of relief I just breathed. With no data other than 'gut feeling' to go on, this is the conclusion that I have come to, also. Although I seek to acquire control of positively obscene amounts of money, the lion's share will go to worthy causes that are badly in need of $. Greg stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/356)
13:25:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
<< Can you explain _at least_ the kind of experiences which may be experienced. MaryD. >> Mary (and anyone else who wants to experieince it)...here are the coordinates for one such site... 00X / 001 / 013 / 007 / 098 Have fun... ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/357)
13:25:30
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
<< Paul calls pychic overlay >> Actually anyone who has been in the business for longer than a week calls it Psychic Overlay and it is a real problem when targeting more than one person on the same target (regardless if they are in the same room or not...same universe is sufficient to cause it....) Gene Kincaid.... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/358)
13:25:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Bill-- At 09:22 AM 7/13/98 PDT, you wrote: > The more the merrier, would seem to be true for targeting, unless you >get what Paul calls pychic overlay. Did you have a protocol to avoid >that? Actually (a petty point), I wasn't the one that called it "psychic overlay"--I don't even remember who that was. I used the term that had been employed in the post to which I was referring. I probably should have mentioned something at the time. I generally refer to it as 'telepathic overlay," when the source of the overlay comes mentally from tasker, monitor, or co-viewer. Psychic overlay is really too ambiguous a term for general use, though it was certainly understandable enough in context. Enjoy! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question 2: Physiology
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/359)
13:25:56
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Re: [stargate] Question 2: Physiology Hmmmmm....so now you really got me curious...I have a penchant for cryptic messages, they motivate me to find out. I did, however, notice that my allergy has curtail tremendously. But of course, there must be more to the story..... I love/hate you for knowing... ha,ha,ha,.... electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/360)
13:26:05
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
>A friend of mine underlined at that occasion that this is a well-know >experience in group-psychology (for details see Solomon Ash [1951, >1955, 1956]) on influencing and/or conformity effects. To make it >short, if I remember well : when 9 people in a group of 10 persons >answer "yes" to a question (even if this answer is wrong) the last >person to talk may say "yes" too, under group's pressure, in around >33% of the cases (even if this last person thinks the good answer to >the question is "no"). Actually, the way I remember it, it was way closer to 100%.. -Tao_Sk8r stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sony psi research closed down
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/361)
13:26:26
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
> Ok, first, lemme say that I appreciate your response.. I just wanted to > throw that out there for people to chew on, with the result of hopefully > getting some interesting responses, and possibly a dialog.. Second, I > have two points of contention with your derision of Courtney Brown.. Take it easy, Tao. Please seperate my derision of Courtney Brown from my attitude towards you. I firmly maintain that Mr. Brown is quite worthy of my derision. After taking a course (I believe from Ed Dames) and doing a few sessions, Mr. Brown was suddenly qualified to re-invent the wheel, give it his own name (SRV), and proclaim himself a guru. Mr. Brown loves to hold court with glassy-eyed UFO fans, who fall on his every word as though it were gospel. He deserves a special place in the 'RV Luminaries Who have Disgraced RV Hall of Fame'. Even though the Telepathic Overlay Effect will explain, in part, Courtney's dismal failures, I feel the massive front-loading he provides may be part of the blame. I could forgive the man if he were just a well-meaning idiot, but I have met him twice, and I can't say this is the case. I cautioned you against following him, strictly for your own benefit. Apologies to all you closed > minded individuals who've already lumped me, at this point, firmly in > thier wing-nut, flake, etc., list. Apology accepted. I should point out that referring to some of seasoned vets on this list as "closed minded individuals", would certainly give credence to your 'wing-nut' theory. > Second, adressing your recommendation about real RV training; I > understand your perspective, and indeed intent to make this sort of > training a part of my agenda, once I have buko bucks to spare for it.. > For now, I'll rely on the free resources, thank you much.. I guess the > other reason for my hesitation is that, though it is quite possible I've > missed it, as far as I know there are no tech transfer protocols > included in the training given by your two recommended instructors.. > > Regards, > Tao_Sk8r I can can completely empathize with the finances thing, Tao, but I think poor RV training may be less beneficial than no training. Every "improvement" on Ingo's protocols (in USG applications) was not. Besides, I don't think it will work unless you buy the Official Courtney Brown Tech Transfer Decoder Ring, first. Greg stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/362)
13:26:36
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Paul: But isn't telepathy a two terminal communication? Otherwise that would be (here comes the taboo word) influence, no? It would seem that there should be a transmitter and a receiver. In some recent books and articles I have read, many of the telepathy experiments involved one person intentionally sending the signal and the other being receptive to the signal. For the most part, these experiments concluded that, telepathy was most likely to occur given the receiver was asleep or extremely relaxed. The effect was much more effectiver if the receiver set-out to sleep and just before going into deep sleep sending the signal to the recipient. What is your thought on this? electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/363)
13:26:44
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Gene: Curious...how would you describe (if even possible) this overlay? Is it kinda synthetic? fuzzy? stale? or is it more like a feeling thing? electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Ed Dames
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/364)
13:27:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Well, here is the latest news about Ed Dames, according to "Roads End" on another list. Take it for what it is worth, meaning believe it at your own risk. You got to be careful what comes up on the net. Ed is so sure that this is going to happen, hes already left his comfortable home in Beverly Hills to moved to Polynesia, can you say y2k. There hes involved in PSI-TECHs latest endeavor called Project Starman. Project Starman, you got to love that name, deals with, get this, contacting aliens to help reconstruct the planet Earth after it has been wiped out by the aforementioned Solar Event. He calls it Post-Global Cataclysmic Reconstruction ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question 2: Physiology
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/365)
13:27:29
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
<< Hmmmmm....so now you really got me curious...I have a penchant for cryptic messages, they motivate me to find out. I did, however, notice that my allergy has curtail tremendously. But of course, there must be more to the story..... I love/hate you for knowing... ha,ha,ha,.... electrix >> From one 'empath' to another... . . . . . . . and I could reply, but there was nothing 'cryptic' about my message..... just a simple statement of fact...... (innocence) then again I could draw the curtains here and take this conversation off the list... (mischief) (yes, Mr. Crietzman I see your eyes rollin back in your head) (sit tight I'll be good). ~will o' the wisp~ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...telepathy
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/366)
13:27:36
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Electrix: Hi. Our own field research in learning and then testing telepathy indicates that it can be done whenever...not just when asleep, or sleepy. Yes, it is best (like some other things) done between 2 consenting adults..or teacher and students....but it happens in many ways and at many times, and some of these may involve children, especially if they are yours. There are no data, far as I know, about a continuous or continuing link between those 2 minds post-experiment, but can verify that it can and does happen. Hope this helps. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Ed Dames
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/367)
13:27:46
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:25:12 -0700, bake27 wrote: >He calls it Post-Global Cataclysmic Reconstruction Are you sure that wasn't Post-Global Cataclysmic Regurgitation? Sorry....I'll go back into lurk mode now... Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/368)
13:28:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
> Mary (and anyone else who wants to experieince it)...here are the coordinates > for one such site... > 00X / 001 / 013 / 007 / 098 > > Have fun... Thanks Gene, Will be my next target :) And for the other Explorers of our forum who want to experience some more "free flights", here a couple of more coordinates : Focus 21 (the edge of time-space where it is possible to contact other energy systems) Focus 23 (a level inhabited by those who have recently left physical existence, from all periods of time) or ...KT-95 (an arbitrary label given by Bob Monroe to his original Home outside our solar system). Have a nice free RV ;-) Jean-Luc. And... remember : "We are much more than our physical body. Because we are much more than physical matter, we can perceive that which is greater than the Physical world..." Robert Allen. Monroe. Hope you like it. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Ed Dames
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/369)
13:28:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
<< hes already left his comfortable home in Beverly Hills to moved to Polynesia >> Last time I spoke to Joni, Ed was at the waterside, scuba diving in Oahu...she was bound and determined to send me a copy of his tapes for review...I did not review them and they are still in the box...have not had time...anybody wants them they can have them.. Gene.. ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/370)
13:28:34
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
>But isn't telepathy a two terminal communication? Otherwise that would be (here >comes the taboo word) influence, no? Absolutely! In the case of TOL, you have the source (tasker, monitor, co-viewer--this last, btw, is just a convenient term i made up), and the one experiencing the TOL. But you have to remember that it occurs somewhere at the subconscious level--the "victim" consciously thinks he/she is getting signal line data, and the "sender" isn't intentionally trying to cause the viewer to experience what they do. But for that matter, "RI" would usually qualify as a 2-terminal operation as well. The question arises as to where the dividing line might be between TOL and RI. I suggest it has to do with the awareness level. In TOL, neither party is aware that it is occurring, and what occurs is a transfer of impressions. In RI, at least one party has a certain result in mind--and it may include actual physiological effects. >It would seem that there should be a transmitter and a receiver. In some recent >books and articles I have read, many of the telepathy experiments involved one >person intentionally sending the signal and the other being receptive to the >signal. For the most part, these experiments concluded that, telepathy was most >likely to occur given the receiver was asleep or extremely relaxed. Remember that in these experiments the aim was to consciously "transmit" specific messages/information consciousness-to-consciousness from one person to another in a (relatively) controlled way. In TOL, the conscious intent is *not* to transmit. This transmission is inadvertent (hence called "overlay"), and usually results as a default from one of two scenarios: 1) when the target exists only as a figment in the tasker or monitor's mind; or 2) When two or more viewers home in on the same target, and their thought patterns harmonize enough that one "captures" the other. In neither circumstance is TOL *certain* to occur; but its likelihood increases significantly. Nonetheless, it is still a case of one person's thoughts being picked up by another person or persons, which I consider fundamentally to be telepathy. Thanks for the question! Enjoy, Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Ed Dames
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/371)
13:28:48
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Re: [stargate] Ed Dames Yes, please! I intend to do a comparative review of methods/protocols and would love to see the tapes. If they have already been claimed I would love a copy at someone's convenience, I would pay costs. Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith The Inner Vision Research Institute Curran2106@... wrote: > > In a message dated 98-07-14 01:54:58 EDT, you write: > > << hes already left his > comfortable > home in Beverly Hills to moved to Polynesia >> > Last time I spoke to Joni, Ed was at the waterside, scuba diving in Oahu...she > was bound and determined to send me a copy of his tapes for review...I did not > review them and they are still in the box...have not had time...anybody wants > them they can have them.. > Gene.. stargate : Message: [stargate]
RV presentations
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/372)
13:29:06
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[stargate] RV presentations Hi all! Just a quick commercial announcement (yes, I have Steve's permission ;-). For those in the area, I will be doing presentations on remote viewing in Las Vegas next week (text of press release included below), and in Salt Lake City at the Golden Braid Bookstore on August 5th at 7pm. For any interested Mormons on this or other lists to which it may or may not get posted, I'm also doing a presentation in Salt Lake on RV and Mormonism. It happens at the annual Sunstone Symposium, 3:30pm on Saturday, August 1st at SLCC, Redwood Rd. campus (Sunstone's phone is 801-355-5926). Hope to perhaps see some of you there (and I know I'll recognize you from the :-) on your faces!). Enjoy, Paul ========================================================= REMOTE VIEWING: Martial Art for the Mind Southern Nevada native Paul H. Smith, a veteran of the U.S. Armys top secret remote viewing program that trained military spies in psychic intelligence-gathering skills, will give a presentation on remote viewing and the government psychic espionage program on the 24th and 25th of July at the Psychic Eye Bookstores on West Charleston and on Russell Road in Las Vegas. Smith will focus on the once-secret Army program which was declassified by the Central Intelligence Agency in 1995. A retired Army major who grew up in Boulder City, he now trains civilian clients in the theory and practice of remote viewing. He is president and chief instructor of a training and consulting business in Austin, TX, and is one of a only handful of people across the nation doing RV training. The technique allows a person, called a viewer, to mentally perceive objects or events removed from him by time or location. Remote viewing was developed during the 1970s by SRI International, a Menlo Park, California, think tank under contract with the government. The research was sparked by reports from the Soviet Union that Russian spies were being trained in similar psychic techniques. For two decades the Armys remote viewing unit based at Fort Meade, Maryland, was successfully used by the military and the CIA as an intelligence collection tool, but was not openly acknowledged by the Pentagon until 1995. That year, the CIA deactivated the program and began the lengthy process of declassifying thousands of documents relating to it. Declassification paved the way for the government viewers to tell their stories and teach others remote viewing skills. A military intelligence officer, Smith served for seven years in the government program at Fort Meade and was the primary author of its training manual. He is credited with more than 1,000 training and operational remote viewing sessions during his time at Fort Meade, including a session in which he described the May 17, 1987 Iraqi attack on the USS Stark in the Persian Gulf, more than two days before it actually happened. Further information: WWW.rviewer.com TIME AND LOCATION: July 24, 6:30-8:30 pm * Psychic Eye Bookstore (West), 6848 W. Charleston July 25, 2:30-4:30 pm * Psychic Eye Bookstore (East), 3315 Russell Rd. (Admission: $10) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Ed Dames
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/373)
13:29:47
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<< Yes, please! I intend to do a comparative review of methods/protocols and would love to see the tapes. If they have already been claimed I would love a copy at someone's convenience, I would pay costs. Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith The Inner Vision Research Institute >> Talk to your Brother in law...he got to me first... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Chance Expectations
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/374)
13:29:59
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> I know we are moving away from the Red and Black thread but living in Las > Vegas I hear some interesting things about the casinos. It seems that if > someone at a routlette table is winning big, the pit boss will change > dealers, putting in someone who can "throw the numbers". The wife of one > of my students (she was a routlette dealer) became so skilled at throwing > the ball onto the wheel that she could pretty much choose which number > the ball would fall on. Hi Angela, Unfortunately, I can present some first-hand feedback on this... While on a protective service assignment in Vegas, a client tipped me a $100 chip upon retiring for the night. I was itchy to try out a 'system' I had evolved, and saw this opportunity as a guilt-free chance to use it. Parlayed the $100 into $5000 over the course of two dealer changes. A crowd was starting to gather, following my every bet. Along comes Dealer X. Unlike the other dealers, this guy wouldn't joke or converse at all. He seemed to exhibit a great deal of concentration, considering the simple task of dropping a marble on a spinning wheel. I quickly went down to $2000 by the time the shift changed again. Got back up to $3500, before Dealer X returned. Then down to $100 after. I quit with my original chip, but had a very strong gut feeling I had been 'had' by this guy. Your anecdote did nothing to dispel that feeling. Thought you might like some feedback Greg stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sony psi research closed down
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/375)
13:30:40
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Re: [stargate] Sony psi research closed down >Take it easy, Tao. Please seperate my derision of Courtney Brown from >my attitude towards you. Actually I do.. Din mean to sound defensive, and actually I really didn't take any of it personally.. >I firmly maintain that Mr. Brown is quite worthy of my derision. >After taking a course (I believe from Ed Dames) and doing a few >sessions, Mr. Brown was suddenly qualified to re-invent the wheel, >give it his own name (SRV), and proclaim himself a guru. I dunno where you garner that impression that he's even called, or even implied himself to be a guru.. Maybe my extensive reading on the subject has somehow managed to overlook that fact.. As for re-inventing the wheel and all that, I gotta admit I have yet to directly compare SRV to CRV, but something tells me I'll not find a great deal of difference, assuming as I have that it's based on the CRV protocols, since that's reportedly what Dames uses in his training.. I think he merely re-named it to avoid the issues surrounding making the CRV manual public, and get the info out for all takers.. >Mr. Brown loves to hold court with glassy-eyed UFO fans, who >fall on his every word as though it were gospel. Ok, if you say so, but again, I see no examples of this.. I agree it is quite likely I've merely missed this, but I don't particularly see that he's set himself up as a guru, though these sorts of things do tend to attract those who would make someone a guru.. >He deserves a special place in the 'RV Luminaries Who have Disgraced >RV Hall of Fame'. Even though the Telepathic Overlay Effect will >explain, in part, Courtney's dismal failures, I feel the massive >front-loading he provides may be part of the blame. Here are two things which I will contend, first that he has any vast record of dismal failures (and I of course STILL don't have that website for your examination, but I promise it shall be soon).. And second, I've not really seen the evidence pointing to front loading on his part of that of his organization.. Even the famous essay by Prudence Calabrese, though it pointed to many other defects at Farsight seems, in my likely somewhat limited memory, not to have pointed to this as an issue.. >I could forgive the man if he were just a well-meaning idiot, but I >have met him twice, and I can't say this is the case. I cautioned you >against following him, strictly for your own benefit. Understood, and knowing what I do about the field, this is advice I will take, at least as far as paying for training.. No, I'll not pay Courtney, but I will pay Mrs. Calabrese, assuming I am unable to afford training with Paul Smith or Lyn B. (I can't spell his last name now for some strange reason).. >Apology accepted. I should point out that referring to some of >seasoned vets on this list as "closed minded individuals", would >certainly give credence to your 'wing-nut' theory. Nono.. That was not the point.. I was speaking ONLY of those who had rushed to that judgement.. >I can can completely empathize with the finances thing, Tao, but I >think poor RV training may be less beneficial than no training. Point taken, and I do agree here.. Just that as the SRV protocols ARE made freely available, as is the original CRV manual, I'll take what I can get from them.. I dunno if I'm actually apply the knowledge gained from them yet, I'm just looking at the fact that they're free, and provide a good basic understanding of how RV works.. >Every "improvement" on Ingo's protocols (in USG applications) was >not. I'm not sure of the meaning of USG applications here, could you please define this? Also, I agree that you're likely correct about improvements, but I still cannot say that any have taken place for sure.. >Besides, I don't think it will work unless you buy the Official >Courtney Brown Tech Transfer Decoder Ring, first. :) Good one.. Sure hope yer wrong here! :) -Tao_Sk8r stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV presentations
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/376)
13:31:30
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<< I'm also doing a presentation in Salt Lake on RV and Mormonism. It happens at the annual Sunstone Symposium, 3:30pm on Saturday, August 1st at SLCC, Redwood Rd. campus (Sunstone's phone is 801-355-5926). >> And Liam and I will be putting together a similar event at the Roisin Dubh Pub beginning at opening time and lasting until one of both of us fall down and grab the grass to keep from falling off the Earth... Sorry I will miss Paul's gathering...really ...I am on the road doing government things but ISTRONGLY encourage anyone in the great out West to attend... stargate : Message: [stargate]
Joe McMoneagle
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/377)
13:31:44
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[stargate] Joe McMoneagle Just to let you all know, yesterday Joe McMoneagle underwent an extensive five hour open-heart operation to repair three valves. He is currently recuperating in intensive care, but is expected to move out of the ICU tomorrow. he may be able to return home within a week, thanks either to the miracle of medical science, or the stinginess of his health provider--or both! I thought you all would want to know. If you would, please, remember Joe in your prayers and thoughts, and wish that he have a speedy and thorough recovery. Enjoy, Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Joe McMoneagle
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/378)
13:31:55
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>...If you would, please, remember Joe >in your prayers and thoughts, and wish that he have a speedy and >thorough recovery. Yes, Paul I certainly will pray for the best possible outcome. Would you mind if I passed this information on to group of people that work towards helping people through prayer/intent? Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Psi and money
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/379)
13:32:08
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Re: [stargate] Psi and money Hi All; Liam here. If anyone remembers my earlier post when I talked about easy money RV gift, etc, let me clarify. First of all Paul is 100 percent correct, as usual when he thinks things through. First there is nothing immoral about RVing for money. I have done it myself (I know Paul this is a reversal of my position of 15 years ago). RVing, monitoring, analyzing, and writing up a correct, comprehensible, and understandable report is HARD WORK, and should be rewarded. Teaching RV is hard work I think it is proper for Paul and Lyn to be compensated for their efforts. I do not think it is immoral to use RV to win a fortune at Vegas or in the Lottery. I do think it is stupid and unrealistic. But if you want to try your luck, please be my guest. What RV does do, for many people, is make you more intuitive (more in touch with your subconscious ?). Playing your hunches can produce results higher than average. This is not RV but, it probably falls under the general category of psi.It is not a sure winner, but, IMO, it does cut down the odds significantly. It is the same principle as pulling into the parking lot and "knowing" that there is a parking place in Lane 7, or taking a test and having a "real strong feeling" that (d ) is the correct answer. So if you want to use RV to win the sweepstakes and never work another day in your life, by all means it is your bloody money so bloody well do what you please. If you want to put down a few quid for me I would not be insulted. Did you hear about the RVer who went to Las Vegas in a $20,000 car and came home in a $400,000 greyhound bus. Good luck and bet number 37 slainte may the force be with you. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Star Gate Website Updated
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/380)
13:33:01
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Hi All, This is just a quick post to let you all know that the Star Gate Website has been updated. To be honest, I feel just a little strange making this announcement. Originally, the Star Gate list was set up for the occassional announcements, plus news of changes to the Star Gate Website, and was only meant to have traffic of about 3 posts a day. I'd say it's grown just a little beyond that - LOL! ;-) Anyway, you're welcome to check out the changes. There's still a few sections to go "live", but long-time visitors will probably want to check out what's changed, and first-time visitors will want to know what the site's about. The address you'll need is: http://www.progressiveweb.net/stargate/ Comments are welcome on the online discussion BBSs (rather than here - let's keep Star Gate list discussion on rv/psi if we can), at the two addresses: http://www.progressiveweb.net/local-cgi-bin/config.pl (General RV/PSI BBS) http://www.progressiveweb.net/local-cgi-bin/openchat.pl (Open Chat BBS) Enjoy! Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: [stargate]
"China's Super Psychics" (One More Time)
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/381)
13:33:16
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Thought I'd try this one again... Has --anyone-- read this yet? If you have not, I strongly urge you to. My inquiries to knowledgeable sources as to the legitimacy of what at first seemed to be wild and far-fetched claims, produced sobering replies. There are PLENTY of interesting pages in this book, not the least of which details the discovery that Shanghai's children tested 60% positive for psi abilities (this was in the early eighties). The Chinese government promptly set about developing this in not only Shanghai's population, but throughout China. The book mentions a trip there by several American observers, including Hal Puthoff and Marcello Truzzi, both of whom wrote of what they learned (Truzzi in Omni, and Puthoff in a paper for the Institute of Noetic Sciences). One chapter describes the first psychic war -- which reportedly took place between Japan and China. Read this book and you will quite likely be very suprised. Here's a pointer to a review by Ingo Swann: http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/9-ChinaPsychics.html. Here's the page on the book at Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1569247153/002-0886107-9768611 Here's Barnes and Noble's: http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=5SUO12WESG&mscs sid=XEV9SDJ53KSH2HLT00LHRNKKFJF6XQ1W&isbn=1569247153 -- TB stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Joe McMoneagle
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/382)
13:33:32
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Re: [stargate] Joe McMoneagle That would be a great idea! Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Joe McMoneagle
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/383)
13:33:43
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Re: [stargate] Joe McMoneagle That's a roger.... My positive flows and thoughts are with him! electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...telepathy
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/384)
13:33:52
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Thank you Bevy, you have been very helpful. Would you happen to know where I could obtain some research paper on this subject? God Bless electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Question...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/385)
13:34:06
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> Absolutely! In the case of TOL, you have the source (tasker, monitor, > co-viewer--this last, btw, is just a convenient term i made up), and the > one experiencing the TOL. But you have to remember that it occurs > somewhere at the subconscious level--the "victim" consciously thinks he/she > is getting signal line data, and the "sender" isn't intentionally trying to > cause the viewer to experience what they do. But for that matter, "RI" > would usually qualify as a 2-terminal operation as well. The question > arises as to where the dividing line might be between TOL and RI. I > suggest it has to do with the awareness level. In TOL, neither party is > aware that it is occurring, and what occurs is a transfer of impressions. > In RI, at least one party has a certain result in mind--and it may include > actual physiological effects. I see...your suggestion opens up quite a bit of implications. I see two possibilities now. First one is that the state of the sub-conscious would have to be necessarily *global* as compare to an individuation --- part and sole parcel of the individual. Or, second, that the "impressions" travels through some medium to reach the other person. Also, in your scenario the condition of receptivity, is that it is always open. However, I have found that in a situation of extreme necessity or intense goal oriented activity the _mind_ is openly receptive. In a condition of danger or fear, there is a shutdown of receptivity. In a casual scenario, I am unsure of the receptivity. I am not sure if it is due more to quick analysis and estimation of personal habit pattern or quick telepathic "impression" transfer. I am presently biased towards instinct (reaction) in the former, and anything that I perceive as an aware *concrete image,* as the latter --- true telepathy. Awareness, though, is key. And to be aware would indicate minute study of the situation when it presents itself so as to notice differences. As far as RI....well, we won't touch this area ;-). > Remember that in these experiments the aim was to consciously "transmit" > specific messages/information consciousness-to-consciousness from one > person to another in a (relatively) controlled way. In TOL, the conscious > intent is *not* to transmit. This transmission is inadvertent (hence > called "overlay"), and usually results as a default from one of two > scenarios: 1) when the target exists only as a figment in the tasker or > monitor's mind; or 2) When two or more viewers home in on the same target, > and their thought patterns harmonize enough that one "captures" the other. > In neither circumstance is TOL *certain* to occur; but its likelihood > increases significantly. Nonetheless, it is still a case of one person's > thoughts being picked up by another person or persons, which I consider > fundamentally to be telepathy. > In any event, I get that the principle of Telepathic Overlay differs from the conscious and intentional transfer of telepathic images. And that Telepathic Overlay receptivity is necessarily always open. Thanks for the feedback electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Joe McMoneagle
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/386)
13:34:22
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[stargate] Joe McMoneagle My prayers are with Joe indeed! Best wishes, Laura stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Ed Dames
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/387)
13:34:36
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Re: [stargate] Ed Dames Gene: I'd like a copy of those sometime. Bevy Jaegers POB 29396 St. Louis, Mo. 63126 He has full page adv. in CA papers now!! That scuba stuff must be lucrative! BJ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Joe McMoneagle
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/388)
13:34:44
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Re: [stargate] Joe McMoneagle Paul; Thanks so much for letting us all know about Joe McMoneagle. I am sure that plenty of us will be sending good 'stuff' his way. I'd wondered why he had not been posting lately, nor an answer to one of my notes to him. :) Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Ed Dames
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/389)
13:34:52
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Re: [stargate] Ed Dames Promised to Paul...sorry... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Joe McMoneagle
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/390)
13:35:01
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Hi Paul; I am so sorry to hear about Joe. He is not only a tremendous asset to the RV community, he is also a wonderful human being. Of course Sandy's and my prayers are with him. I have a candle lit for him. Thank you so much for informing everyone. Best Wishes Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Ed Dames
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/391)
13:35:17
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Re: [stargate] Ed Dames Mea Culpa. I apologise to Gene for any inconvenience caused by my recent response to his kind offer. It was written without thinking and was not intended to be offensive to anybody or any group. As penance I will buy a copy of Ed Dames videotapes for my own use. Humbly Angela Thompson Smith stargate : Message: [stargate]
AOL/dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/392)
13:35:24
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Hi everybody, I was wondering if dreams are primarily "AOL". Thanks. Jane ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Real World
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/393)
13:35:36
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Hi Gene and all; Liam here. Sorry it took so long to get back on this one, but I have been unable to buy any B vitamins because of a sudden rush on them and I simply forgot. ><< I did not know I had become so > cynical. > >> >Liam...It comes with old age...your cynicism is a forerunner to being accused >of arrogance and combattiveness...you know...acting like a stupid >Irishman...heck it almost got me tossed off Steve's net so now I have become a >kinder and sweeter Gene... snip I cannot imagine a kinder and sweeter Gene. I am not sure the world is ready for it. snip so be very careful about your cynicism...keep it in >check since there are those on this system..great academics and sholars who >see not "giggle" factors in anything and lead very serious and refined >lifestyles which have long ago failed to see humor in the most unlikely places >and see only the seriousness of all they do...I have learned to survive with >them and can now use such terms as "Peer Review", quantum mechanics, >replication of details, statistical analysis without so much as one guffaw...I >know have my forehead permanently squinched up into a frown as I contemplate >the importance of the difference between 50/50 chance and 58.3 % results and >the impact this 8.3% could have on the world at large.... >PS...Nice to see another Mick on the net... >Gene.. Gene, your kind warning came to late, alas. Yesterday, I was a happy go lucky rogue, not taking life seriously. Insisting that all you needed to know about RV is that it is magic. Bringing joy where ever I went by singing beautiful ballads in my wonderful Irish tenor. Then, when I awoke today I found myself pondering Is the origin of time irreversibility local or cosmological? Is it in the laws or in boundary conditions? All I can say Gene is, that if you do not understand the awesome significance of that missing 8.5 % then you are obviously not taking a Gestalt, holistic approach to the application of proper protocols. If you do this you will vastly underestimate the statistical significance of deviations greater than chance in which case you will recalibrate your Electro magnetic flimm-fram. And everyone thought I was just another pretty face. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/394)
13:35:48
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Gene, Have worked site and have a summary. Do you have feedback? Would you like summary first? Thank you for target and hopefully feedback. David.................... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Real World
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/395)
13:35:58
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<< If you do this you will vastly underestimate the statistical significance of deviations greater than chance in which case you will recalibrate your Electro magnetic flimm-fram. And everyone thought I was just another pretty face. >> Oh sure - you say that now that you are on the wagon...but let me get you for one night in Michael Flynns and we will really solve the mysteries of the world...as for me, I will continue to contemplate the age old question of which came first the chicken or the armadillo.... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/396)
13:36:19
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<< > Gene, Have worked site and have a summary. Do you have feedback? Would you like summary first? >> uhhhhh....let me see....do I tell you what the target is first and then have you tell me what the target is or do I have you describe it first then I figure out which planet you think your on.....this will take some thought now...let me think....BE SERIOUS ! ! ! ! ! stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/397)
13:36:34
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
>uhhhhh....let me see....do I tell you what the target is first and then have >you tell me what the target is or do I have you describe it first then I >figure out which planet you think your on.....this will take some thought >now...let me think....BE SERIOUS ! ! ! ! ! >Gene. Yep, you're right. I asked the question wrong. I thought it to be quite generous of you to offer a dimensional target to the group. I also should have responded to your email address instead. Feedback COULD be assumed in the offer, but to have you take the time to read my summary and perhaps critique it a little, would seem to me to be presumptious on my part. I ADDED the "would you like me to send summary first" part without considering total context. I'll send summary direct to you. I appreciate the practice. Thx, David Hathcock............. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
"China's Super Psychics" (One More Time)
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/398)
13:37:11
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>If you have not, I strongly urge you to. My inquiries to knowledgeable >sources as to the legitimacy of what at first seemed to be wild and far-fetched >claims, produced sobering replies. > Thank you for bringing this to attention. Bought and read book. I feel it's an interesting book. It includes commentary about the SCICOP/Randi visit as well as Truzzi and Puthoff. Much of the content is believable to me now that I have personally experienced PSI at work thru RV and more open minded. Especially the 'reading with the ear or nose. However, a lot of the stuff about walking through walls, pills from a bottle, etc were presented almost as heresay and certainly wouldn't comply with US Parapsychology lab controlled experiements. Paul Dong has done a lot of good documentation work and believes in Chi gong values to enhance PSI function. I was not convinced enough of its value to start practicing the technique to enhance RV myself, though. David Hathcock......... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
dimensional travel
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/399)
13:37:23
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<< Feedback COULD be assumed in the offer, but to have you take the time to read my summary and perhaps critique it a little, would seem to me to be presumptious on my part. I ADDED the "would you like me to send summary first" part without considering total context. >> Not presumptious...part of the deal...when I give a target..it is real and I have feedback available... stargate : Message: [stargate]
(no subject)
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/400)
13:38:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000301-000400---------
Two people have already taken me up on the "dimensional" target...if any of you are still figuring on doing it...don'g read any further...but by the same token..don't send me your results since there is no way I would know if you are overlaying the results here in this feedback report or whether you are actually sending in nice clean information...I am now going to scroll down a bit and provide the feedback my students usually get from me during training and practice sessions...you will notice, those who choose to read on ...that I am my same sweet even dispositioned self when I am acting as monitor...so here goes...follow your conscience.... Kindest Regards...Gene... ============================================================= Gene, Summary as promised. Session Summary: The target is a location. The beginning ideogram produced motion (2 types), structure, airy height, and life forms. GG (Genghis Gene): What type of ideogram do you produce that indicates life forms? Ifentification of life forms usually occurs later... The location has very massive, dense, and tall stone walls. The walls are medium grey with a rough/coarse texture, but with rounded edges. There is an inside feeling and the lighting is dark in places with generally starved lighting which comes from above. GG: Pretty quick jump from Phase 1 ideograms to this discussion. Nice technique if it works consistently. However, this is an accurate description of the main structure at this site. The location size feels very intimidating and gave AOL's of 'being at the bottom of a huge vertical mine shaft' or a 'volcano tube'. GG: Things that are "intimidating" are not actually AOL...these are called aethetic impacts (AI)..if they are a real wowser maybe an Emotional Impact..for the reasl wowsers ..you need to call out a break...and say why...anyhow...mine shaft or volcano tubes are understandable impressions at this site... There was a blocking and walling with massive walls with a 'Not Allowed' feeling. GG: I am concerned about the labelling you continue to use.."blocking" etc....be very careful..I do not allow it...describe the physical attributes without the lableling...However, this is an understandable concept at this site but you still have properly described it..."Not allowed" is not the actual concept... The emotions of the multiple people/life forms were carefree, unconcerned, pleasant, innocent, and with menial and redundant purpose. These emotions were very faint and seemed reclusive at first. GG: OK?...This does not tell me much about the people and could be laid to practically any site outside of big cities...I do not really care about the people anyhow therefore do not waste you time with them... There was a big, bold, and fast motion which seemed apart in time and some space from the motions of the lifeforms which were slow and plodding. The target seemed intent on being just a barren interior stone space with no life at first. It took movements to get the walling effect to go away. GG: Very confusing isn't it. I do not have any idea what you are trying to tell me about this place but you are sensing a very strong mystical sense here I believe... The Taskers Intent produced - awaken, witness, perceive, educate, learn, know, arouse, enable, and perform. (Seems too logical, suspect AOL) There was an S7 of "Manganese" or "Mongoose" GG: End of the session and you are skipping around and grasping for data...Not bad for a first session...but you are still looking through the fog and not grabbing the key elements of this site...additional viewings would undoubtedly clarify many of the key issues...you are welcome to continue to view the target... If you do....use the following coordinate...00X / 002 / 007 / 017 / 098... If you intend to view it again...do not go any furtheron this page since I will be doing a feedback with another viewer and at the end I will identify the target...therefore, if you do visit the site again..do not send the results to me...simply go to this site... Regards...Gene... End Summary: ============================================================= this morn I did that target you put out on the net... I hope it is ok that I did this... I just went and had a good time... 00X/001/013/007/098 fresh bright green, spiked, moist, rocky, mound, round, rise, large, up, roll. Structure, massive, flat, hard (feels like, stones piled) thick, squared, damp, ancient, different levels or ups and downs ummm some parts of structure seem to be peaks or points. GG: Great stuff. Good descriptives and no AOL...data is very indicative of what you would encounter at the key structure at this site. Main entrance open large archway. Structure seems part of old (energies) and part newer construction. The one main energy point, I sense this is an alter type thing, or area, Christian (corrupted) now, but not originally. GG: Naughty Naughty...use of the term "Christian" is pure AOL. You know better...I appreciated the other comments...the term archway could have taken a little more explanation but it is accurate...I also was impressed and dismayed (at the same time) with the term "altar"..NOW WHAT DOES THAT MEAN!?!?!...it is pure labeling...(even though it is astonishingly accurate..but considered yourself chastized..Finally, you have hit on the key element of the "dimensional" aspect of the target...the idea of very "old" energies...and indeed they are very old... Brownish, cream, gray, charcoal colors from the main structure I seem to get bounced to an area removed from the structure, flat more open space.. I sense this place is maybe a burial ground, there is an entity here. GG: You are actually being "bounced" a relatively short distance...less than a couple hundred yards...and is is removed and it is connected in some way...a very intriguing way... There seems to be some connection something placed in the ground here, ummmmm the thing that is in the ground here has been removed from the main structure, or it comes from here and was placed in the main structure, i think in the alter area. The 'thing' contains massive energy or magick. Didi the original inhabitants come from the sea? GG: A continuation of the idea of a mysterious connection between the main site and this site. Very good. Magic is the basis of the energy here...not atomic, or cosmic...simple pure magic...Very good...this is a conceptnot easily recognizable...Did they come from the sea? Interesting question...the answer is yes but I would be interested to know where that insight came from ...." The main structure feels originally magic, but it has been altered... I sense now that ummm, well before the (ancient) inhabitants were free, and something changed and they were made to bow or a new viewpoint came and took control of them. They becamed supressed or controled. oppressed. GG: The main structure was altered primarily because iof the effect the "magic" had upon it...the old magic was replaced by a new magic...a more realistic and definable magic but a magic none the less and the new magic did win the people over...but the old magic did not simply vanish..and from that old magic, the way to another place another "dimension" still exists... I have to add the words 'abbey' ? Correct spelling...? this word it is has something to do with english (dog) Christians this goes with the target... also a king, or a great king was there when times were good.. early on... a great blustery dark haired man (good guy) perhaps dark bearded also... GG: You have gotten a firm grasp on the target and now you are conducting a very indepth analysis of the various components and aspects of the target. Sign of a well trained and well disciplined viewer....your instructor must have been a genius...Watch the labelling however .."King"..what does that mean..describe that concept and see it he remains "King"...also the "English (dog) Christians....I may agree with the canine descriptive of my Saxon neighbors...however, far too much labelling going on here...be careful of entering an AOL drive...you were doing so good.... I will go back to see the hooded-robed entity tonight... He is at the burial- ritual grounds... I need no target. he... this being here, made the "eye contact" with me that beings make to me when they are ready to go.. ... he has been waiting for some reason... GG: Feel absolutely free to go back at your liesure. It is a wondrous place and I think you will be amazed at the energies and mysteries you will find here... ~T~ ============================================================= In the Republic of Ireland is a great Cathedral in a place called Cashel...the hugh solid rock and glassed steeples and strong thick stone walls have given it its traditional name...The Rock of Cashel. A tale not known by many however, gives it its mystery. At this site, visited by St. Patrick himself, was a former Druid temple...not as ornate and not as large but it was a central meeting place for these mysterious sorcerors and magicians. With the conquest of the Druidic tribes by the forces of St. Patrick, it was traditional to build the new religious temples of Christianity on the site of the old Druid monuments and sites. At Cashel, the original site was selected for just that reason. However, the string of strange occurences, injuries and worker deaths finally convinced even the hardest propoenent of Catholicism in Ireland that the site of the building of the new cathedral had to be changed...It was moved to a site a couple of hundred yards away...and the strange and mysterious ocurrences stopped, as did the inordinate numbers of injuries and deaths...the site of the old Druid temple and its bubbling springs is still held in deep respect and awe by the local inhabitants... Slainte...

// END ARCHIVE BLOCK #4.

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Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #4. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 301. Last Message Number: 400
First Message Date: July 11, 1998. Last Message Date: July 17, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000301-000400.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)

Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #5. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 401. Last Message Number: 500
First Message Date: July 17, 1998. Last Message Date: July 25, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000401-000500.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



BEGIN ARCHIVE BLOCK #5.

stargate : Message: Re: [stargate] 
Target Feedback......
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/401)
14:05:49
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
>> GG: You have gotten a firm grasp on the target and now you are conducting a very indepth analysis of the various components and aspects of the target. Sign of a well trained and well disciplined viewer....your instructor must have been a genius... .... My instructor is just a hair off perfect ... anyone want to disagree? why I shall just draw my short sword.................... :-) Watch the labelling however .."King"..what does that mean..describe that concept and see it he remains "King" ... The great man I saw was a King, ruler, a great heart.. I can draw him for you as well as the great hall, lit my many candles and smoking fat, merriment, long tables, a happy free people.... This beautiful 'time' is from before christians rolled thru... read just the first chapter of 'The Mists of Avalon'..... however, far too much labelling going on here...be careful of entering an AOL drive...you were doing so good.... >> Yes,..... :-) thank you, GG for the target and your time... I am very pleased with the session... It was fun, I love energies... (AOL, whatever I am right..... hahahahaha good magic...... hahahah :-) Fond Regards... ~AquaSerene~ :-) P.S. Whats an " ideogram " ??? stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Food for thought...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/402)
14:06:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Regarding 'no trespassing signs...' Robert Monroe writes in his book 'Ultimate Journey' pg. 109 "What we need to do, weather in- or out-of body, is to ignore or tear down the No Trespassing signs, the taboos, the notice that says Holy of Holies, the distortions of time and translation, the soft black holes of euphoria, the mysticisms, the myths, the fantasies of an eternal farther or mother image, and then take a good look with our acquired and growing left brain. Nothing is sacred to the point where it should not be investageted or put under inquiry." go for the gold ring, grab for it .... I do :-) ~Terri~ stargate : Message: [stargate]
Remote Viewing.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/403)
14:06:28
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
I have seen examples of remote viewing of the past. My question is: "Could someone remote view an experience that I had in the early 70's?" I had begun to attand a meditation class. We had our resident, "Trance Medium." We had the usual people who lied to get attention. But, one day, I arranged for my (engineer) husband to attend and photograph "stuff" during the meditation session. We meditated. He shot Polaroids.. And the---- One shot showed one of the people who have the head of an indian over his head, complete with 1 feather and one braid hanging over one shoulder. We had two photos. I can't remember which came before or after, but one showed NOTHING. Sorry to say, I gave the photos to the house owners. But could we remote view this time and find out why it happened? I can't prove it. But I was there. Why would the same situation show two different phtots. Unless, there was a message? Can RV tell us the message? Hope So. Marilyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Food for thought...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/404)
14:06:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
> go for the gold ring, grab for it .... I do :-) ~Terri~ I haven't read this book...I have read 'Far Journey'...wonderful quote....thanks... Monroe submitted to the inquiries of psychological assessment...but more than that, he himself dared to take the journey. Joe was first spun out into the journey and then dared to inquire into the science of it all. A balanced approach with a daring attitude of no 'holy of holies' combined with a reverence for the wonder of life will return us to the central core of our reality...who am I? who are 'all my relations'? because what is possible is a much wider band than what is not, we should assume that anything we can imagine is possible. Only when we become capable of self validation do we transcend the barriers of socially acceptable reality...and I challenge any of you to tell me socially acceptable reality is the 'realist of real'. Shelia stargate : Message: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/405)
14:06:52
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Hi guys, For those interested in the follow up of a 17 july 1996 RVed target (remember Ed Dames & al. ?), here' s a quote of Riley G's "TWA 800 - Psychic Viewing" I got today by E-mail : start of quote : " - I see that the cause of the TWA 800 flight was caused by a bomb made in 5 parts. - These parts were made up of high powered liquid explosive placed in 4 duty free bottles of liquor/wine. I believe the bottles were purchased several days prior to the explosion and brought out of JFK rather than going though to another country. After being purchased the contents were removed through the bottom of the bottle, or in the case of wine a syringe may have been inserted and the contents drained through the corks, and the explosives inserted. The devices may have been set off by a electronic alarm clock (timer) and blasting cap. Blasting cap was smuggled through xray by being placed inside the body via the mouth (swallowed outside the airport and thrown up in airport restroom, or placed in rectum and retrieved later). - Once past the security area and customs areas the bomber simply retrieved the basting cap and made his(her) connections to one of the bottles and once inside the airplane this device was placed in an overhead compartment. - When the device went off it blew away a major portion of the airplane near the front cabin just behind or in the 1st class section (top and side) thus causing the plane to break apart and crash. - I also believe that the plane was suppose to blow up further from the USA and in deeper waters. The plane was delayed 1 hour at JFK before takeoff and may have been why the plane exploded and crashed so close to JFK. " End of quote. More infos may be found at Any comments ? Take care, Jean-Luc stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Target Feedback......
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/406)
14:07:03
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
>> P.S. Whats an " ideogram " ??? >> In the Coordinate Remote Viewing discipline, something for which I am no capable of teaching, the Viewer begins by placing the tip of their pencil on the left edge of the paper and waiting for the coordinates to be read. At that point, the viewer permits the pencil to run free with no restrictions, allowing it to complete a single line containing loops, straight lines, curves (up or down) etc, and from this line the viewer then begins to describe the target. In the classic Ingo Swann technique, this ideogram represents the first signal from the target and therefore may be incomplete or hard to fully understand however, as the session moves on, the ideogram usually begins to make a little more sense. It is the doorbell at the front door of the target. You can't tell much about what is inside yet, but you are at the right place...Strongly suggest ideograms be discussed with the two masters, Paul and Liam...Paul especially was able tocome up with amazing ideograms during the many sessions I monitored with him...but then again he is an artist in his onw right...a very talented artist as those of us who get his Charistmas cards can attest...(hope you have started this years Paul...hint hint...)...Liam on the other hand has the great voice of the Irish tenor to his merit...and fills the halls with the crystal clear tones of sweet Ireland as he works during the day....it is a sound which has no equal...NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..... Regards...Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Target Feedback......
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/407)
14:07:13
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
>> target. In the classic Ingo Swann technique, this ideogram represents the first signal from the target and therefore may be incomplete or hard to fully understand however, as the session moves on, the ideogram usually begins to make a little more sense. >> ..... sheesh... good thing I have a kind and patient teacher.. I would never understand all that... I'll just stick to what I am doing, it's easier... Blonde Remote Viewing...... :-) ---- stargate : Message: [stargate]
Happy Birthday to Steve C.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/408)
14:07:21
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Sending happy birthday wishes to the webmaster -- Steve Crietzman. Keep up the good work and have a great day! (Please don't get mad that used up list space for personal business. It is your day -- celebrate!!). Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Happy Birthday to Steve C.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/409)
14:07:35
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!! STEVE :) I hope you have a great day :) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/410)
14:07:54
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Re: [stargate] TWA 800 crash P-Viewing hm15 wrote: > > Hi guys, > > For those interested in the follow up of a 17 july 1996 RVed target (remember Ed Dames & > al. ?), > here' s a quote of Riley G's "TWA 800 - Psychic Viewing" I got today by E-mail : > > start of quote : > " > - I see that the cause of the TWA 800 flight was caused by a bomb made in 5 parts. > - These parts were made up of high powered liquid explosive placed in 4 duty free > bottles of liquor/wine. I believe the bottles were purchased several days prior to the > explosion and brought out of JFK rather than going though to another country. After > being purchased the contents were removed through the bottom of the bottle, or in the > case of wine a syringe may have been inserted and the contents drained through the > corks, and the explosives inserted. The devices may have been set off by a electronic > alarm clock (timer) and blasting cap. Blasting cap was smuggled through xray by being > placed inside the body via the mouth (swallowed outside the airport and thrown up in > airport restroom, or placed in rectum and retrieved later). > - Once past the security area and customs areas the bomber simply retrieved the basting > cap and made his(her) connections to one of the bottles and once inside the airplane > this device was placed in an overhead compartment. > - When the device went off it blew away a major portion of the airplane near the front > cabin just behind or in the 1st class section (top and side) thus causing the plane to > break apart and crash. > - I also believe that the plane was suppose to blow up further from the USA and in > deeper waters. The plane was delayed 1 hour at JFK before takeoff and may have been why > the plane exploded and crashed so close to JFK. " > End of quote. > > More infos may be found at > Any comments ? > Take care, > Jean-Luc Great....now there are FOUR causes for the crash claimed by four different remote viewers using four different methodologies. Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/411)
14:08:06
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Rich Krankoski wrote: > Great....now there are FOUR causes for the crash claimed by four > different remote viewers using four different methodologies. Because of the intensive mass mind focused upon this event and its aftermath, I would imagine there is every opportunity for psychic/analytic overlay.... But I gotta agree, it's enough to make one run off screaming into the fog. Hang in there Rich! Shelia stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/412)
14:08:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Rich-- At 09:17 PM 7/18/98 -0400, you wrote: >> For those interested in the follow up of a 17 july 1996 RVed target (remember Ed Dames & >> al. ?), >> here' s a quote of Riley G's "TWA 800 - Psychic Viewing" I got today by E-mail >Great....now there are FOUR causes for the crash claimed by four >different remote viewers using four different methodologies. I think Riley G considers himself a "psychic"--and I'm certainly not in a position currently to either substantiate or dispute that claim. I'm not however sure he claims to be a "remote viewer." As has been debated hotly and furiously at various times over PJ's list and, I imagine, in other venues at other times, being a psychic and being a remote viewer are two different (if in some ways related) things. In any case, if you put together all the scenarios proposed by all the psychics in addition to remote viewers, you'd have many more than four! This particular account was available back at the time of the Dames/Brown "wars" over TWA 800's demise. It's pretty much been discounted just by the physical "feedback"--they've recovered enough of the aircraft, and a bomb of this nature would have left plenty of telltale evidence--none of which has reportedly been found. That is, of course, unless you subscribe to the "conspiracy to withhold information" theory, in which case the results of this particular scenario would be very difficult to cover up, even if there were a reason to do so (of which I can't think of any--it would actually be very convenient to be able to blame TWA 800 on a bomb from some international terrorist group or other). Oh, well--I'll probably be sorry i tossed a rock into this particular puddle... Enjoy! Paul BTW, I'll be unsubscribing from this list for about three weeks starting Monday evening. I'll just have to read all your fascinating posts on the archives when I get back. If anyone out there absolutely has to reach me, I'll be reactivating my account effective Tuesday, 21 July through 10 August. My response time will, however, slow even more... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/413)
14:08:39
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
For you who are interested-- I got an e-mail Friday from John Alexander, a personal friend of Phil Corso, author of "The Day After Roswell." Phil apparently suffered a fatal heart attack Thursday night. I've not received further details as yet. THough this isn't exactly a remote viewing-related news item, there is a connection. Ingo Swann conducted a project a few years back with a number of experienced viewers that reportedly produced results similar to what Corso reported (gleaned from first-hand experience) in his book. I've not yet read the book to see, but hope to eventually (Stoic philosophy of perception and Husserl's theory of intentionality are both my reading foci for the time being! ;-). Enjoy, Paul stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Happy Birthday to Steve C.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/414)
14:08:49
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Happy Birthday my fine young English friend... On your birthday, take a moment and turn within... Recall the words engraved upon the very essence of our beingness.. Curiosity killed the cat, ahhhh but satisfaction brought it back.... Then party..... :-) ~T~ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/415)
14:09:06
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
>Great....now there are FOUR causes for the crash claimed by four >different remote viewers using four different methodologies. > >Rich > >---- Ill add another cause. Explosion in main fuel tank from vapors as stated by NTSB but IGNITED by Laser Energy Beam from Lawrence Livermore labs in New Jersey (miniscule skin penetration) - ACCIDENT, people testing targeting at very low power. This is my THEORY only. D...... stargate : Message: [stargate]
Corso
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/416)
14:09:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Dear Paul, Here is some more information: CNI NEWS BULLETIN: Col. Philip J. Corso (U.S. Army, ret.) died at approximately 11:15 pm EDT on Thursday, July 16, 1998. He was 83. Corso, who was widely known for his controversial 1997 book, "The Day After Roswell," suffered a massive heart attack in early June of this year but made a remarkable recovery. He was at home on July 16 and was said to be feeling fine when he apparently suffered a second heart attack. According to a family source, Col. Corso died at or enroute to a hospital in Palm Beach, Florida. Details are sketchy at this time. CNI News is awaiting further information from the Corso family. Meanwhile, condolences may be sent to the family of Philip Corso, Jr., Colonel Corso's son, care of the Roswell UFO Museum. Send attn: Philip Corso Jr., PO Box 2221, Roswell, NM 88202; fax (505) 625-1907; email care of deon@.... Further information will be posted to the CNI News web site as it becomes available. http://www.cninews.com Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/417)
14:09:30
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
>> Explosion in main fuel tank from vapors as stated by NTSB but IGNITED by Laser Energy Beam from Lawrence Livermore labs in New Jersey (miniscule skin penetration) - ACCIDENT, people testing targeting at very low power. >> Nawwww...your all wrong...It was actually an accident but not directed at the plane. The Remote Influencers were spending some time in the Devils Triangle checking out alien bases in the deep waters...They came across a gateway to another universe cleverly disguised as a hugh Vitamin B capsule jar and decided to investigate and actually pass through the portal. They were doing fine when they realized that the portal also acted as a time machine moving them forward...as they realized this they backed away completely...using good psycho-kenetic energies to propel them away from the site...but in doing so, they reappeared in front of the ill fated TWA Flight 800...the pilot swerved to miss them and the people doing the remote influencing/remote viewing/phscho-kenetic response tried to assist but in doing so confused the on board computer collision avoidance device with the onboard fuel transfer system...they were only two inches off but it was enough for them to think they were influencing the 225 ton aircraft in flight when in fact all they were doing was shifting 12 ton of fuel from one tank to another...the tremendous infusion of all that psychic energy by these graduates of the Michael Flynn School of Zykik Inflooence and bartending ignited the fuel and the aircraft came apart at the seams...These same individuals have now spent the last year coming up with all sorts of REALLY wierd reasons for the aircraft crashing instead of this very very reasonable cause just to throw the rest of the world off so their stupidity will continue to go undetected and their receipts fromt their unsuspecting students will continue to increase...... This is MY theory... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/418)
14:09:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
>rest of the world off so their stupidity will continue to go undetected and >their receipts fromt their unsuspecting students will continue to >increase...... Ah, but were these graduates able to mix drinks, give correct change, and properly pour a pint of Guiness? Which did the graduates do first in their daily training, Zykik Inflooence or sample the concoctions, that they mixed for bartending class? - Roger stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/419)
14:09:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
>Which did the graduates do first in their daily training, Zykik >Inflooence or sample the concoctions, that they mixed for bartending >class? It's common knowledge that the Masters of Zykik Inflooence have taught their graduates to look in the futue...then, being able to see patrons enjoying their concoctions...there would be no need for tasting, thus increasing their bartending profits and honing their skills at the same time. Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Remote Viewing.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/420)
14:10:04
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Hi Susie, Read this carefully. Any comments? Jerry At 10:35 PM 7/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >I have seen examples of remote viewing of the past. > >My question is: "Could someone remote view an experience that I had in >the early 70's?" stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/421)
14:10:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
> This is MY theory... > Gene... Holy cow Gene! Who'd a thought? No wonder I get such a strange ideogram with that target. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Remote Viewing.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/422)
14:10:40
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Susie & Jerry Please respond. Anyone, please respond. I had so many weird experiences in that group. We thought the we were receiving messeges or guidance. It was a very special time. Unfortunately, as usual, personalities became a problem and I left. In the beginning the people were wonderful. The meditations were special. I experienced things that I really must sit down and write about because they were so strange. But, I have always wondered about the, "Native American." Please forgive me for being so politically incorrect in the first message. If anyone has any ideas, please respond. Thanks, Marilyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/423)
14:11:00
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Re: [stargate] TWA 800 crash P-Viewing ROTFL!!!! Sounds good to me :) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/424)
14:11:11
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Say now, that School of Zykism sounds like a winner! BTW that 'blue ray' business was being put around just after the 800 crash.....I like the Michael Flynn causation better. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/425)
14:11:20
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hmmm Rich Rv'ing your ideogram it looks a lot like a black russian.... hmmm? Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/426)
14:12:19
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Hi Vikki, Liam here. Vikki, I am amazed you brought this up. As a Grand Exalted Dragoon, and honor graduate of the Masters of Zykik Inflooence and Bartending School (or as we refer to old MOZI & BS) I want you to know that viewing our customers in the future would be unethical. Also our motto at old MOZI & BS is "We drink our mistakes." Gene was pretty close to the true story of TWA 800, but he was a wee bit off. Actually several of us Grand exalted dragons were on a routine STEM (thats "Save the earth mission") We were trying to destroy the companion in the tail of the hallie boob comet. Using your standard"Astral Quadratic Equation" we calculated the exact amount of energy necessary to destroy the companion without altering life as we know it.Unfortunately, we had been holding court at the BS portion of old MOZI& BS. We miscalculated by a statistically significant 8.5 %. ( Gene, maybe now you can see why that 8.5 % is so important.) So we had this extra 8.5 % of energy floating around and that is when someone noticed the empty fuel tank. Well enough said. I hope this finally clears up any doubts anyone had. Next week I will publish my RV data, naming the present location of ELVIS. If you want to get a copy, please forward $49.99 to old MOZI & BS. Remember The truth is out there slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 crash P-Viewing
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/427)
14:12:36
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On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:57:11 +0200, Liam wrote: >..As a Grand Exalted Dragoon, and honor graduate of the Masters of >Zykik Inflooence and Bartending School (or as we refer to old MOZI & >BS) I want you to know that viewing our customers in the future would >be unethical. Usually this would be the case, however in accordance with the CRAPOLA (Consolidated Representatives of Adepts, Priests, Ollahm and Laymen Association) declaration on page 1273, Article 14, section 27(b) of the Really Big Book of Stuff (tm) it states that viewing is permissable under commerce research and development law, as long as the viewing is not prolonged and is used only to discern consumer satisfaction. Unlike the case involving one Miss Cynthia Ferriday..and although the defense stated that she was involved in commerce...we probably shouldn't discuss that particular occurrence in this forum. >Also our motto at old MOZI & BS is "We drink our mistakes." Hmmm..I thought it was "We toast our mistakes" which would certainly coincide with the previous explanation regarding flight 800. >I hope this finally clears up any doubts anyone had. Next week I will >publish my RV data, naming the present location of ELVIS. I have spoken with the Nashville Network and they would like to know your terms regarding full broadcast rights. A complimentary Cadillac will arrive at your home shortly. Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: [stargate]
TWA 800 etc.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/428)
14:12:48
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Hi All, >Usually this would be the case, however in accordance with the CRAPOLA >(Consolidated Representatives of Adepts, Priests, Ollahm and Laymen >Association) declaration on page 1273, Article 14, section 27(b) of the >Really Big Book of Stuff (tm) it states that viewing is permissable Uhhhh... guys.... I think that we're straying just a *tad* off-topic with this subject... TWA 800 isn't going to help us understanding serious psi/rv.. Anyone out there want to discuss remote-viewing/psi etc again? I believe the original point behind this thread was to probe why there were four different RVrs explanations with four methods.. not to create newer theories or "remote-viewing sessions" around them.. Please feel free to make psi/rv posts here, believe it or not that's what this list is for! (Serious discussion about controlled forms of psi/rv, parapsychology etc, with a small blend of more general psi and relaxed conversation to boot..) That all said, I didn't mind this thread continuing for a while, since I needed a good LOL.. and I've really enjoying everyone's, um, "creative explanations" for what happened to TWA 800.. but I think we should leave Ed Dames to doing things like that.. :-) I was also hoping this thread might end on it's own given time, but it seems to be developing into a continuous, long- running thread with very little to do with psi at all. I'll copy some of these posts over to the Open Chat BBS, there's nothing stopping everyone taking their theories and hypo's over there and continuing the thread there.. the Open Chat BBS is basically unmoderated (flames, 18+ material etc excluded :) Hope no one minds me intervening.. I just saw this developing into a thread, and I'd like to make sure that this list doesn't became a newsgroup :) This list is here for a reason: serious discussion about controlled forms of psi/rv, with *some* general psi and a *little* light humour and chat to boot.. (although feel free to write me if you'd like to see something else..) An idea: how about a separate mailing list for general chat? That way we could keep this list fairly on-topic, and just "roll over" the off-topic posts (which are still fun - for some - but make the more relevant posts hard to find), onto the sister list.. any thoughts on this idea?? That way, those who *want* the general chat can get it, but those that don't.. won't. I think that's a simple enough solution - both lists could be treated as one and the same, but the more 'looser' topics could be nudged onto the more general list. Also, one small more point if I may: Please try to reduce 'quoting'. Try not to respond to a 200-line post, quoting the entire article, only to add 'I agree' to the bottom. It can be annoying to have to scan through a dozen posts, only to find that eleven replies consist of lengthy quotes of the original, followed by "I agree." at the bottom. I hope I'm not alone in feeling that way. Discussion of TWA 800 is welcome at the all-purpose BBS at: http://www.progressiveweb.net/local-cgi-bin/openchat.pl I've only received two complaints about the topics being discussed on the Star Gate list so far. My feeling is that there might be many more who are keeping quiet, so I felt I ought to make a post "nudging people" to consider covering some more psi-relevant topics. I don't mind a little 'leak' into off-topic subjects or the occassional joke, that's fine.. I don't want this list to become *too* serious.. we all need a little light relief every now and again, but please bear in mind that the 60-70 subscribers on this list have all signed up for the same reason: to discuss psi/rv. Some may be interested in related subjects, some may want light chat, but everyone wants to discuss psi/rv, or they wouldn't be here. I learnt a few weeks ago that many people preferred a list with few rules - in fact, there were a few extreme libertarians writing to me insisting I basically do nothing, and say nothing, at any time, that might stop a post of any kind. Well, I took notice of that fact, and have relaxed the rules somewhat since then, but I still felt a few basic ones were necessary, and as "moderator" (in quotes) and list owner, I could still make posts like this one. So, consider this a polite 'nudge' from your friendly moderator, not an instruction that must be followed. There's always the Open Chat BBS (address above) for TWA, conspiracy theory and UFOs. This list was originally intended to be a list for discussion about more controlled forms of psi and RV, in order to help fill the void the loss of PJ's Viewer List would cause. People wanted a list that was pretty much the same, and so I may occassionally make posts that are designed to encourage people to discuss more relevant topics, but only if I start to receive complaints will I make a post or write private emails asking people to halt a topic and/or carry it on somewhere else. I hope people understand my reasons for making this post. Best always, Steve. Steve Crietzman (stargate-owner@...) Star Gate Mailing List Administrator P.S. Special thanks to Jane and others who wished me a happy 19th birthday.. thank you! :-) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
TWA 800 etc.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/429)
14:13:02
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>> we all need a little light relief every now and again, but please bear in mind that the 60-70 subscribers on this list have all signed up for the same reason: to discuss psi/rv. Some may be interested in related subjects, some may want light chat, but everyone wants to discuss psi/rv, or they wouldn't be here. >> :-) Steve, yes it's a pitty you cant please all the people all the time, I know you try, but I did sooooo want to know the crurrent location of Elvis............. ahhhhhhh what a bummer... ~T~ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
List bizness
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/430)
14:13:12
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Steve: I believe you are right about relaxing some rules, yes. I also believe that there is a large, ever-increasing segment of the public who are extremely interested in psi/rv or yes, there would be no need for this interchange of ideas and commentary. Perhaps any unmoderated List goes through throes of birth and a sort of 'get- acquainted' period. I'm certain PJ's did, too. Remember,guys, she was very apprehensive about opening a PSI line at all. :) (humor should be a leavener, however, not directed at anyone's expence, nor should scoffing at what another believes or has observed be done) What sparks and carries on any exchange of this sort is questions, questions, questions...then some answers. Not all of us came from/followed the exact same disciplines to learn these skills, and it is true that sometimes 'answerers' will not agree. This, of course, is inevitable, as no two people see ANY subject alike. I do think that one rule that should be kept is that personal insults or derogatory comments should not be allowed. I know of several persons who dropped all List participation because of reaction to innocent questions they'd asked; and in one case, the individual was sincerely attempting to make a point, on the basis of their own experience - and was roundly scoffed off in a rather high-handed manner! In truth, no one of us is in possession of ALL truth about any aspect of our subject, and should never act as if we are. This is, by all means, a LEARNING process. In my three and a half decades of studying this subject from 'scratch-all' at the start, I have learned a great deal, yes, as all of us old-timers have, from personal experience, time in grade, observation and the methods by which we were trained. However, there are still many areas that remain unanswered; although I feel many more answers will be forthcoming from present research in the field. So we DO know many answers, tips and ways to help those who are today starting at 'scratch-all'......( they're aways ahead of where we started, though, for back then JB Rhine and the Iron Curtain gang were the only game in town. :) At least, today there are some books and the entire field is no longer underground or 'black'. So, it is our job now to gather in new subscribers with new questions to ask (or versions of the ones we've handled before) Oopsydaisy, now I'll get off my little soapbox and let someone else comment. Bevy J stargate : Message: [stargate]
Native American
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/431)
14:13:27
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I want to thank people who sent private emails about my polaroid of a Native American. I appreciated it. Obviously, I front loaded everyone, so a real Remote Viewing was impossible. But, it was a good lesson in what not to do. I also appreciate that no one told me what a stupid thing I had done. Thanks for the kindness. I have several questions about RVing the past. I remember a book about psychics doing archeology that I read a long time ago. Did anyone in the gov't project try to RV the past? Was most of the work done trying to view present time events and sites? I remember that someone saw the concentration camps in Germany and political prisoners held in a camp. I don't even want to get into the stuff about seeing the future. Let's say, for example, I set up coordinates for something like the polaroid experience, but chose a completely different situation. How likely is it that we would get anything meaningful. What chance of success is there? Obviously, a lot would depend on the skill of the Remote Viewer. I guess what I am really asking is: Has it been done? Gene's experiment was really interesting to see. The responses were full of so much detail; they were amazing. Bye for now, Marilyn ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Native American
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/432)
14:13:36
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Hi Marilyn and Bevy, I'm sure that Bevy will resond, but she is now quite active in remote viewing the past for archeological as well as palentology ( dinosaurs). Say Bevy, have you ever Rv'd the past 220 million years ago at the Permian extincition ( which was far greater than the one 60 million years ago that killed the dinos). It might be interesting to see what you see as the cause. Another asteroid, solar flare, nearby supernova, volcanoes. ice age.....who knows. I won't tell you which is favored. Best Regards, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Native American
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/433)
14:13:49
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Hi Marilyn; Liam here. First let me apologize for not getting back to you on your earlier question. You obviously got a lot ofgood feed back on I. >Did anyone in the gov't project try to RV the past? Was most of the >work done trying to view present time events and sites? snip Marilyn, I do not have any figures, but I believe that approximately one quarter to a half of what we did was targeting a site at an earlier time. We had some amazing results, which, unfortunately, I cannot site here. Viewing the past is no more difficult than viewing the future. Your chance for success is the same as viewing a target in present time, and often feedback is easier to get. Keep asking the questions We really need your enthusiasm and curiosity. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/434)
14:13:58
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Hi all, I'm writting in hope that some of the millitary guys and other long term viewers can help with some tips on working the stage 4 and 6 matrix for infromation? I am an artist by trade, but my sketches are nowhere near as good as my verbal dscriptions of the target are there any reasons/other instances of this within rv? All the best... Darryl We came... We saw... We wrote a session summery... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/435)
14:14:15
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That's interesting. I noticed a similar thing. I used to use a voice recorder to record my perceptions, but I started to perceive visuals that could not be described, and so started to draw them. Since I have abandoned my voice recorder, I just realized that I am no longer perceiving as many of the non visual perceptions, like emotion, smells, purpose and sounds. I should allow both drawing AND voice to become a part of every session. Once again, this represents another example of - you get what you ask for. If you forget to ask for sound or smells, you probably won't get them. Which is another argument in favor of a more 'controlled' protocol rather than my own 'free-style'. darryl wrote: stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/436)
14:14:41
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>I am an artist by trade, but my sketches are nowhere near as good as my >verbal dscriptions of the target are there any reasons/other instances of >this within rv? Hi Daryl, Liam here. One reason, IMO, for this that your verbal description does not necessarily make sense to you. The words are just coming in and you are writing them now. Many times , after seeing the feedack, I thought I had missed the target completely, however my description was right on. I do not need, in fact I should not know, where I am at to provide correct verbals. When I draw, I try to do it the same way. Not with logic but trusting my gut. I feel there is something above the flat roofed structure. I put my pen there and trust the signal line, and my gut. If I trust my mind and try draw what I "think" is there it what should logically be there, I will be partially right, but my drawing will lose depth and accuracy. Works for me slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/436)
14:16:19
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>I am an artist by trade, but my sketches are nowhere near as good as my >verbal dscriptions of the target are there any reasons/other instances of >this within rv? Hi Daryl, Liam here. One reason, IMO, for this that your verbal description does not necessarily make sense to you. The words are just coming in and you are writing them now. Many times , after seeing the feedack, I thought I had missed the target completely, however my description was right on. I do not need, in fact I should not know, where I am at to provide correct verbals. When I draw, I try to do it the same way. Not with logic but trusting my gut. I feel there is something above the flat roofed structure. I put my pen there and trust the signal line, and my gut. If I trust my mind and try draw what I "think" is there it what should logically be there, I will be partially right, but my drawing will lose depth and accuracy. Works for me slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Native American
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/437)
14:16:43
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Marilyn: The most well-known viewer in the archaeological field is George McMullen, who worked with Dr. Norman Emerson. There are several books to research there. Secondly, Dr. Jeffrey Goodman, author of Psychic Archaeology (library) also did a great deal of work with viewer Aron Abramsen, as well as with our resource group, the Psi Squad. You'll also want to read Dr. Laile Bartlett's PSI TREK (library) which is crammed with pre-SRI information. Our Psi Squad projects at this time include several different archaeological viewing projects, plus a fascinating pre-history project utilizing 65 million year old fossils. We are working with scientists on these. You can get more information by going to our website http://www.slipstrym.com/uspsisquad/ and listening to the 5/26 and 6/8 radio shows we did with Sightings on the Radio. Although we spend more time on 'crimesolving' tasks as a rule, this year has brought us a fine crop of very ancient and evidential targets to do. This is a welcome return to our beginnings, as it was with this type target that I myself was trained in the first place. You will find that archaeological and paleontological targets have been very much a part of the official record of remote viewing. There is an extremely comprehensive reading List on our site as well, which includes most of the more interesting books in our Squad library. Those marked with (L) are available by requesting them from any good Library. Libraries will find you almost any book, if you are willing to give them a list and keep calling to expedite the locating work. Good luck and enjoy reading. Bevy J U. S. Psi Squad stargate : Message: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/438)
14:16:51
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Can Figure eights in S3 or any other stage represent aspects of the afterlife or spirituality? Have any other viewers come across these before. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/439)
14:17:02
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Hello Greg, You wrote: > [snip] > Once again, this represents another example of - you get what you ask for. > If you forget to ask for sound or smells, you probably won't get them. Which > is another argument in favor of a more 'controlled' protocol rather than my > own 'free-style'. > [snip] Interesting... Do you think the use of pre-printed RVing forms would be of any help for newbies or RV experts ? Do you know if any RVers do just underline items in such forms (kind of "check-list method") instead of writing things down on white paper sheets ? Has this already been tested in the military ? Thanks. Jean-Luc. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/440)
14:17:14
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Jean Luc A sort of 'form' was included in the precog. test area on Dr. D. Radin's site out of UNLV. I, for one, found it interesting and helpful to a point, but limited. Doing your homework? Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/441)
14:17:25
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Hi Edith, You wrote: > Can Figure eights in S3 or any other stage represent aspects of the > afterlife or spirituality? Have any other viewers come across these > before. > I got *sometimes* the apparent presence of "non incarnated entities"- beside an incarnated person sketch in my P3 ideograms, with the strong feeling that these items were part of the target. Unfortunately I can't explain for the moment why it occured in some cases and in others not. Then the problem comes from the fact it's generally impossible to validate such a component.There's usually no evidence for it. Were these entities really there ? Were they who you suppose them to be ? In such cases some of my teachers used to say "...we have now good reasons to think that there could be..., etc." because we Knew "they" were there. On some Lyn Buchanan targets you may also experience some kind of clearaudience events in P7. (It's as if some invisible friend/helper whispers something directly related to the target close to your right or left ear. It's generally very surprising but absolutely not frightening). Hope this helps. Jean-Luc. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/442)
14:17:38
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Dear Bevy, USPsiSquad@... wrote: > Jean Luc > > A sort of 'form' was included in the precog. test area on Dr. D. Radin's site > out of UNLV. > I, for one, found it interesting and helpful to a point, but limited. > Doing your homework? > Bevy J > ---- Thank you very much for your input. I'll check Dean Radin's website. BTW, would you be so kind as to send me either by E-mail or snail-mail an exemple of the RV form you, and the US Psi Squad, generally have to fulfill when helping to solve a police case ? Is it very different from what Kathlyn Rhea proposes in her book "Mind Sense" (Celestial Arts, Berkeley, CA, 1988, page 111), for example ? Think would be helpful as a starting point in the future. And yes, I'm doing my homeworks again (The football worldcup's over :) I wait for some infos, concerning the case you've submitted, this evening and hope to send you all my results before the end of this week. Warm regards, Jean-Luc. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/443)
14:17:50
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>> nteresting... Do you think the use of pre-printed RVing forms would be of any help for newbies or RV experts ? Do you know if any RVers do just underline items in such forms (kind of "check-list method") instead of writing things down on white paper sheets ? Has this already been tested in the military ? >> NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!...Preprinted forms would be the same as AOL (Analytic Overlay)...you would tend to look at the items and overlay impressions ... Liam stated it perfectly (rare for him since his brain cells tend to gurgle in pools of black Guinness rather that actually respond)...anyhow, Liam noted the need to follow you heart (gut impressions) when doing your post session drawings...JUST DO IT...says the shoe add...well this applies to your sketching and notes as well....Where is your monitor?...personally, I do not believe you can do effective remote viewing without a monitor and those who say they can are only fooling themselves with loads of AOL which could just as easy be spread on roses....but that is only my opinion...if you do not have a monitor...well train one Damnit!...but get a monitor or you can never repeat NEVER trust your responses and will always be looking for shortcuts like preprinted forms to cover the fact you are having problems remote viewing... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/444)
14:17:58
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>> (The football worldcup's over :) >> BTW....I would be interested in hearing from all the folks who claim to be able to consistently win at lotteries...how much did you folks win on the World Cup and how many of you can document you actually picked France...when nobody else in the world did...(BTW...for those not interested enough in the worlds largest sporting event...the World Cup is a soccer tournament)... Gene Kincaid... (Now I bet several folks will swear up and down that they have pieces of paper in their hands which they wrote down four weeks ago noting the score / winner / attendance figures....) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/445)
14:18:13
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Jean-Luc, one trainer who uses preprinted forms for training is Dr. Wayne Carr who runs the Western Institute in Reno, Nevada. He trained with Courtney Brown at Farsight and uses a variation of Scientific Remote Viewing. I found the forms both helpful and restricting. Helpful in that they reminded what I was supposed to be doing in this method (I had already started training in CRV with Paul Smith and SRV has variations on that method). Restrictive, in that I had to use the word lists provided for sensory and other words. Sometimes, the word that I wanted was not on the list. In CRV, the student is required to acquire a wider vocabulary and not just words like brown and green, but ochre, tan, olive, cream etc. I don't know if forms were used in the military but you could ask Paul Smith. Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith The Inner Vision Research Institute stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/446)
14:19:11
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I dont think I follow non incarnated? Is that What the figure eight stands for? The reason why I ask is I was tasked a blind target. It was a missing boy. His friend had drowned in the river and this boy jumped in to save him but drowned as well. The family was looking for his bodys whereabouts.In my S3 I drew two LFs with figure eights beside each lf .I also produced L/D ideos as well as Figure eight ideos. My cue was boys name/ present time. I guess what my question really should be is did my session touch upon the spiritual aspect of target ie afterlife? I know I am the viewer but I did a limited session until S4. I am wondering if any other viewers have had gestalts such as these show up in similar targets.If the cue is the boys name/ present time and he is deceased where would the matrix send me? To the physical body or the soul which is supposed to go on? stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/447)
14:19:41
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>I dont think I follow non incarnated? Is that What the figure eight >stands for? snip I guess what my question >really should be is did my session touch upon the spiritual aspect of >target ie afterlife? Hi Liam here. do not know if you touched the spiritual aspect. It is certainly possible, IMO. As for the figure eight. I believe ideograms are viewer specific. The ideogram I normally get for structure, may be your ideogram for water. IMO it is the means our subconscious uses to communicate with us. I do not think there are any ideograms that must mean the same thing to everyone. BTW, were you able to locate the body of the boy who passed over? slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/448)
14:19:51
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In a message dated 98-07-22 12:19:33 EDT, you write: >> He trained with Courtney Brown at Farsight and uses a variation of Scientific Remote Viewing. >> That explains the need for crutches... Gene...... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/449)
14:20:01
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snip >if you do not have a monitor...well train one Damnit! I have long wished someone would make a good monitor training manual available to the general public at no cost (Heck, it'd be nice if there was even a one available to PAY for).. Ah, well.. -Tao_Sk8r stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/450)
14:20:33
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The rescue team found the boys body caught between rocks in the river. We are never going to get a full target disclosure but thats ok. My session was short I was told to work untill S3 but worked it until S4 so I was only able to determine crude elements at target site and if he was still alive. I concluded he was gone below water (liquid)but did not say anything. My friend who assigned me the target just presented the raw data to her. One warning though this turned into as we say in hebrew a big ballegan, It is the best word I can use. The relative interrpruted my data including others she had recieved from various "psychics" that he was still alive maybe due to the fact that she wanted to believe that. She attacked my data and put blame on me for her believing he was still alive because I had EIS of happy overwhelmed and sad although I never concluded anything never posted an analysis. I guess my friend figured she would interepret the data herself being a remote viewer and it is out of structure to do so anyways. Although I wanted to defend my session and position I did not say anything as I knew she was grieving and was not in a good state of mind.I am just happy they were able to find him and I feel most definately he is at peace. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/451)
14:20:45
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Re getting a monitor. I appreciate that getting a monitor in your local area might be very difficult. It seems to me that this web site could link people together who are looking for monitors. Surely RVers could try to monitor each other over the internet using a chat program, even across Oceans! Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/452)
14:20:59
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The only problem with this is if your going to use voice alot of the software at least the ones Ive tried are buggy and how would you be able to write or draw while trying to handle your computer you will loose concentration the same thing goes for typing and mirc. ---Bill Pendergrass wrote: > > Re getting a monitor. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/453)
14:21:19
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Hi Edith, Those are good points all right, but the software is getting better all the time. And even in simple chat, I would think some monitoring would be better than none. Best Regards, Bill stargate : Message: [stargate]
multiple ideograms
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/454)
14:21:32
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I still am not comfortable with multiple ideograms. In my class and subsequent homework sessions I did only one ideogram but I have seen many samples of CRV/SRV/TRV methodologies where the viewer produced more than one ideogram, not only at the beginning of the session but also later during movements or sometimes apparently because it seemed the thing to do to get more data. When are additional ideograms required or helpfull? Also it seem sthat some methodologies do not use an ideogram per se. Would someone who does not use ideograms discuss their views on this item? Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/455)
14:21:40
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Bill Pendergrass wrote: > > Re getting a monitor. > > I appreciate that getting a monitor in your local area might be very > difficult. It seems to me that this web site could link people together > who are looking for monitors. Surely RVers could try to monitor each > other over the internet using a chat program, even across Oceans! > > Bill Has anyone tried monitoring over the internet using NetMeeting or some such program? Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/456)
14:21:50
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Edith: Just a word of advice from us, after 36 years of working that kind of case... If you want to avoid that type of problem, never agree to work with relatives or non-official persons. Always ask to work with or 'feed' the information to an official source, whether police or law enforcement of some kind. They would have taken a closer look at what you got and may have asked your opinion on whether the child was alive or dead. This is 99% of the reason the Squad only works upon official request. Should you be asked to work on another case,not by law enforcement, do try to arrange to provide your results to an official source of some kind. This will help you avoid being put on the spot, being misquoted,deliberately or otherwise, or suffering embarrassment of this kind. It is also much easier to tell an official source you believe or know the sought-for person to be dead than it is to tell a relative or parent. Some awfully well-meaning persons such as your friend seems to be have done much to confuse the issue of crime work and psi; and done much to throw mud into the gears. What do they say about the road to h.... ? Sorry you got bollixed your first time out. Bevy J U.S. Psi Squad stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/457)
14:21:58
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Edith: Figure 8's on their sides are one of the universal symbols used by the ancients to indicate the eternal or the wheel of life and death, etc. It has been used for centuries, even millenniums and is often found carved intol stones in an 'early-man' habitation site. In your usage, it may well be a 'personal signature mark' of some kind, or a sort of message 'signboard' that you will come to recognize over time. Example: when I have a dream involving a tornado, it is a warning that things are going to get very busy in a big hurry! :) (batten the hatches, sort of) You'll have to observe when and where you get this figure 8 to find out what it means to you. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
multiple ideograms
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/458)
14:22:08
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Hi Rich, I'm Sandy, Liam's wife. I don't have much chance to join in but am on vacation this week. Thought I'd just share my ideogram experience with you. When I began RV, in S1, my ideograms were simple and easily translated. For instance, land would be a straight line; water a wavy line. So as I moved into more complex sites, the ideograms multiplied. My brain and I have been closely related for many years and she knows I need simple instruction. As I moved through the stages I was able to handle more and more in an ideogram. Now I usually get the whole physical structure right off; if I misinterpret or get no B for S1, I can take it again and sometimes I get a simplistic ideogram. Sometimes water, smoke, snow, and sand look the same in an ideogram. A's would be across, wavy, flowing, soft. If I have no B and retake the ideogram than with smoke I may get a smoke stack with broken lines. My brain is saying 'this is smoke and there is no smoke stack'. Snow may have a broken-lined ideogram of a mountain. This says there is no mountain, just snow where a solid line means there is also a mountain. If I have a structure I get a right angled line; a town will give me a series of right angled lines; then if there is a mountain, land, water also; I will have an ideogram with the entire gestalt. This is just the way my brain and I communicate. This was after many, many sites and with a monitor who is a structure lunatic. Really, I think he trained my little brain and I am just the host for those two!!! I have had to let my right brain do the work and keep my left side asleep. Being somewhat a control freak, this took many hours of discussions with my head. Thanks for letting me ramble. Sandy stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/459)
14:22:17
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Thanks for the advice Bevy . I know logically it makes sense but at the time I think alot of people were just responding to her plea for help. I was not the only one to view this there were a few. But none of us I guess stopped to think about the things you touched upon.It is a good lesson and I will mention this to the others. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/460)
14:22:28
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The only problem with this is if your going to use voice alot of the software at least the ones Ive tried are buggy and how would you be able to write or draw while trying to handle your computer you will loose concentration the same thing goes for typing and mirc. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/461)
14:22:39
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>> Figure 8's on their sides are one of the universal symbols used by the ancients to indicate the eternal or the wheel of life and death, etc. >> CAREFUL BEVY...the "Lazy " symbol is not universal among the "ancients" (whoever they are) anymore than the wheel was...The Mayans and Aztec did njot have wheeled vehicles...the Egyptians acquired the wheel from the Phoenicians...not much was universal among the "ancients"...the idea of "eternalness" was not even universal....the Lazy "8" did not exist in ancient China but ""eternalness" did...so you see statements referring to the mathmatic symbol of infinity should not be blanketed into something like a deep limbic origin or something...ideograms, as noted by Liam in an earlier message, are an individual thing...I know of no "universal" ideograms that consistently show up during "Everyones" sessions...and after hundreds of sessions, I guess statistically, I can state, it is unlikely there is one... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/462)
14:22:51
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Dear Edith, Hi. I just signed onto the list and saw your question and the answers given, and thought I'd throw in a comment or two of my own. As Liam and Gene said, there are no ideograms which appear to be common to everyone. Even "land", which is a straight, horizontal line for most people, comes out as all kinds of things for the "non-most". A student the other day called and said that his ideogram for "land" has changed itself to something that looks like a dot on too much caffeine - what should he do about it? The answer, of course, is that it is the subconscious mind's way of having the body tell you something. If that is the language it wants to use, then let it. Most people overlook the fact that CRV, which uses ideograms, etc. is as much a physical activity as mental. After all, you are using the body to act as a "translator" between the subconscious and conscious minds, which speak different languages and don't normally talk to each other. For that same reason, the "language" of your own ideograms only needs to be (and only can be) understood by three people: You, on the conscious level, you on the subconscious level, and you on the "body-mind" level. If someone else starts trying to interpret your ideograms according to their shape, it is an exercise in futility. People have tried to find generic shapes for the ideograms, such as making a figure 8 into an infinity sign, and supposing that it has common morphogenic meaning to the human species. Such attempts at finding generic ideograms fail very rapidly. In spite of our common heritage and spiritual one-ness, we are, at some basic level, individuals. That is the level at which the ideograms appear to have their functioning. Besides, the meaning of the ideogram is rarely found in its shape, anyway. It is almost always found in the accompanying "feeling component". As to the question about whether an ideogram can show the presence of spirituality or an afterlife... an ideogram is a word in your physical language. If you develop a word (ideogram) for "spirituality", then your ideogram language will include that word, and your subconscious mind can use that ideogram to tell you about such a thing. It is a language. Like any language, its vocabulary is whatever you develop it to be. As to the response that was sent by Bevy J of the U.S. Psi Squad - you should use the "CUT" feature and cut that bit of advice from your email program, "PASTE" it into your word processor at a font size of about 99pt (banner size) and make a printout of her advice you can place permanently on your wall. It is probably the best advice you can get for working such cases. Not only for the very good reasons she gives, but also for the fact that working for/with the family members exposes you to all the emotions of the case. That is a burden which you then carry through the session with you as you work, and it can destroy your success. If the family won't accept any other reason for your not dealing with them directly, tell them that it is our of concern for the victim...so you can do a better job for the missing child. That is true, but they usually don't realize it. Work only through the police or other professional organizations. Not only will your work be better received and interpreted, but the lack of emotional baggage will give it greater quality, as well. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
multiple ideograms
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/463)
14:23:11
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At 10:49 PM 7/22/98 -0400, Rich wrote: >I still am not comfortable with multiple ideograms.(snip) (snip) >When are additional ideograms required or helpfull? >Also it seems that some methodologies do not use an ideogram per se. >Would someone who does not use ideograms discuss their views on this >item? >Rich ------------------------- Dear Rich, I use ideograms, since they are an essential part of the CRV process, so can't address your last request. However, let me try to address the first 2: I, personally, am more prone to using simple ideograms. (Remember, this is a language, and just like clauses in English, there are 3 kinds of ideograms: simple, compound and complex). I personally like taking the coordinates over and over until all the simple ideograms which are appropriate to the site have come out. Then, when an ideogram starts to repeat, I know that my mind is saying, "That's all there is". I can then proceed into P2 with confidence that I have narrowed the session down to its basic components. Some people, however, like to take the coordinates once and get all the simple ideograms out in one compound or complex blast. It is all a matter of personal working techniques. If you are uncomfortable with compound and complex ideograms, then don't use them. >When are additional ideograms required or helpfull? Let me use an analogy: Let's say that you are blindfolded and told that you will be taken somewhere, and when the blindfold is removed, you are to simply describe the first person you see. Simple tasking. Let's let that be an analogy for the process of telling you that you will be given some coordinates, and you are to then describe the target which is at the coordinate location. Same simple tasking. Now, in the analogy, we blindfold you and take you to the location, then yank the blindfold off. You know that your task is to describe the first person you see. Your first natural tendency, though, will not be to look for a person. Your first tendency will be to answer the inner question, "Where am I?" In like manner, when I give you coordinates for a target, your subconscious mind already knows that the target is, say, an event at the location. However, there is also a natural drive for your subconscious mind to ask, "Where am I?" It will therefore, come up with gestaltic ideograms which are the natural process of it getting its bearings. In other words, it will naturally come up with the ideogram for the target, but place it into its proper surroundings - with the accompanying ideograms. This is both a natural and necessary process which helps your subconscious mind "get on target". Don't fight against it. Once you understand the process, you can work with it to get on target faster and better. It is a good thing. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/464)
14:23:22
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Hmmmm.... Gene, time to crack that Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myths" and et. al. You might be surprised. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/465)
14:23:29
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Hello...Lyn...bout time you popped into the discussions here...thanx for affirming the idea of ideograms being individuellagrams...hmmm...I like that...I claim it...nobody else can use it...I will market that word and make my forturn in RV...hahahah.... Anyhow..glad to see you and your comments... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
multiple ideograms
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/466)
14:23:37
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Hello Sandy, Are ideograms really a form of automatic drawing? They sure sound like it. In other words, is your mind blank when you draw ideograms and the pencil just moves, or do you draw something you see in your mind? Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/467)
14:23:46
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Yes but if you were taught by an instructor that wavy represents water or land right angles represent man made structures and loops represent LFs wouldn't some peoples subconcious start producing standard ideos. It's like learning any new language if your told that a loop equals a LF your sub will pick up on LF and draw a loop because that is what you've been taught represents that gestalt. I realize that every individual is not the same that is obvious but it would be interesting if a standard language was or could be developing something akin to the 100th monkey effect. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/468)
14:23:56
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Regarding doing 'Operational' targets such as the boys' deaths. I was taught to do a timeline once an event or activity target type was percieved. This then allows for the start and end of the event timeline. You can then do the timeline move to the significant time during the event/activity. This would leave you with a line with three markers for time referencing. More importantly, you could then 'move' to before the significant time and probe and wait for the emotions and record them. THEN 'move' to after the significant time and probe the EI column for emotions. The successful sessions will yield significantly different emotions from the 'target' when there has been a change in the person and clairifys whether death or some other change has occurred (per my CRV training as best I recall) At least you may give it a try if you continue the 'operational' target activity. I'll bet Gene can add regarding time moves on event/activity targets as well. David. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
multiple ideograms
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/469)
14:24:14
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Sandy, that was a great run on the development of the ideograms connection with the personal mind set and points up why it doesn't work well to use a list... You had to sweat it out and develop your own language...which involved conscious instruction to and cooperation with your subconscious. I'm inspired to do more clarifying work on my own ideograms. Thanks, Shelia stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/470)
14:24:23
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>> Hmmmm.... Gene, time to crack that Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myths" and et. al. You might be surprised. >> No I won't... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/471)
14:24:31
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>> Yes but if you were taught by an instructor that wavy represents water or land right angles represent man made structures and loops represent LFs >> ...then this instructors name would be Courtney Brown and you need to duck cause lots of comets may be headed your way....an ideogram is a gut feeling that indicates an initial sense of signals arriving from a target...the concepts may change due ot a number of circumstances...would a nice beach scene at Miami and the stark sheer Cliffs of Moher in Ireland be the same ideogram?...huhhhhhhhhh....well why not..they are both land water interfaces...but maybe the target is not the land water interface but rather the large tower near Moher or a large tower hotel near Miami...what do you think the ideogram might show...huhhhhhhhh?....stop looking for shortcuts and neatly wrapped up solutions...they are simply not there...RV is magic and does not lend itself well to scientific analysis or Dewew Decimal filing systems for ideograms.... Gene Kincaid... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/472)
14:24:41
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>> At least you may give it a try if you continue the 'operational' target activity. I'll bet Gene can add regarding time moves on event/activity targets as well. David. ---- >> Yes Gene can...forget the timelines...sorry...they are not necessary...when you want a viewer to go to a specific time at a specific target...trust in the magic..it will not let you down...If I want a viewer to go to the site of the Crucifixion at the point of the Crucifixion...I might tell them to go to the coordinate when nothing is occuring...when they describe the site to my pleasure...I might then simply say "Ok...do some time skipping back and forward...not much..just look over your shoulder or a little ahead until you come to the time I want you to be....THAT IS ALL IT TAKES for a trained viewer with a trained monitor...that is all IT EVER takes...the magic takes over and will move them either forward or backward in time to the point where the Crucifixion took place and they will begin describing the events...incidentally...warning for all the folks who are just experimenting or were trained by the Courtney Browns of the world...DO NOT ATTEMPT TO LOOK HIGHER THAN THE FEET at the cross...it will be a little disturbing and you will not be able to move your eyes any higher anyhow but the rudesness of your being propelled from your RV state may be a little unnerving and even a little dangerous if you are not careful...you can actually fall over backwards in your chair....now I know you will want to do this now...expecially the folks who alleged specialize in past event viewing...YOU WERE WARNED...!!!! Gene Kincaide... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
multiple ideograms
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/473)
14:24:53
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Sometimes (a whole lot really) I have found myself just going through the motions of the ideogram. It doesnt really have the automatic response feel to it, but I know that I am supposed to create one, so I have found myself consciously creating one. I havent really noticed that much of a difference with the results of my sessions, In fact I have I had some pretty good sessions. Any suggestions on how to correct this, or does it really need to be corrected? Nice to hear from you again Lyn. David Moore Moore@... WWW.CL.UH.EDU/POLICE/ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/474)
14:25:02
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>DO NOT ATTEMPT TO LOOK HIGHER THAN THE FEET at the cross...it will be >a little disturbing and you will not be able to move your eyes any >higher anyhow ...[remainder snipped] Why can't you? Please don't take offense at my question..and I'm sorry in advance if it's one of those stupid ones, but I'm genuinely curious. Why can't you look any higher? Also, if you would be so kind...I'm a non- RVer, so use little words ;-) Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/475)
14:25:17
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> [snip]...I know of no "universal" ideograms that > consistently show up during "Everyones" sessions...and after hundreds of > sessions, I guess statistically, I can state, it is unlikely there is one... > Gene.. > So that everybody has finally to develop a very personnal vocabulary based on ideograms. Could anybody please tell us from his/her experience on that precise point - if there is a big difference (statistically) between the volume/corpus of ideograms used/developed by a RV top level expert (like Joe, for example, or others in the military) and that used/developed by a newbie ? Is the rate 1/2, 1/10, 1/100, more ? - if a RV top-expert continues to develop new ideograms, due to his/her new needs, or not ? - what is the average volume of ideograms developed by top level expert, from your experience ? 50, 100, 500, 3000, more ? nb : it is common to find a basic dictionnary in chinese language with around 18 000 "words". Thanks Jean-Luc. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
multiple ideograms
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/476)
14:25:41
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>Are ideograms really a form of automatic drawing? They sure sound like >it. In other words, is your mind blank when you draw ideograms and the >pencil just moves, or do you draw something you see in your mind? > >Bill Hi Bill, A little background; in the early '70s I was heavily involved in the Charismatic movement with a priest. Automatic writing came natural as well as some other 'gifts'. Looking back, it worked for me along the lines of RV. I think they were strongly connected through the right brain. I became in tuned to my subconscious. When I began structured RV, I believe it was off of the same signal line, and my brain knew what I was looking for. I really 'see' nothing, just put the pen to paper and 'guide' the pen. It's a feeling rather than a visual . The work came in training my subconscious into passing me discernable information. When I trace over lines on the ideogram, I could 'feel' if it were i.e., soft, hard, flowing, up, down . Now I can feel when I draw the ideogram. An example was land/water interface. I would get a wavy line and a solid line . Then I had this ideogram that had a half circle with a straight line on each side. I knew it was land and water but no wavy lines. It was a bay with water on one side and land on the other of the half circle. It was looking down at the bay. I always get this ideogram for bay. The first time I did an island, it gave me a circle. I could put my pen on the inside and feel 'hard'; on the outside and feel wavy. I became cocky and each time I would get a circle, rather than go for the feeling, I assumed it was an island . Then I worked a site, took the coordinates, drew a circle and called it an 'island'. Liam said, 'Take it again' and after the third time, there came wavy lines in my circle. It was water, a lake. So if I put my pen in the middle of the circle, I can feel which it is. I have had to work hard at keeping my left brain out of here. To keep from translating my ideograms into logic.A structure, for instance, will b e right angled lines which indicates for i.e., man made structure. I worked an Indian ruins build into the side of a mountain. The ideogram was an up down mountain with a right angled structure inside. My left brain translated this as a cabin in the mountains. (I'm part Blackfoot Indian so I loved it there and 'assumed' it was nature.) My subconscious was trying to tell me it was man made out of natural material. So now I get a broken lined right angle for natural, man made. Some ideograms I sent my brain and others my brain sent me. I think it is a two way street, speaking for myself and my brain. When I get more to an ideogram than I can handle, I can call 'too much break' and take it again. It will usually break it down for me and knows I will take it how ever many times to get all of the gestalt. I spent hours on making simple ideograms, communicating with my brain. I did drills over and over. When I decode a multiple ideogram, I take the coordinates again, if I have called something incorrectly or I missed something important, I get it back until it is correct. This happens because I retake the coordinates as instructed by the mean, old, monitor. I also work a S4.5 which Liam needs to explain. This is something that I just kept doing naturally and it works for me. I do not do a structured S4 but after S3 I have automatic writings which encompasses S4, only in a narrative. From the very beginning, I would write the S4 headings across the top of the paper and begin a narrative. (I don't use the headings anymore.) (I'm almost finished, LOL) I practice some Native Ceremonies and Spirituality. Smudging is a form of praying. I always Smudge before a session, this somehow helps me to lock on. I meditate and go to my Sanctuary as well. For me, and this is speaking strictly for myself, the more in tune I am with, lets say, a Spiritual space, the better I lock on. I think when I 'prepare' correctly, it somehow tells my left brain to go to sleep and I move into right brain. This is only in the recent years I have done this. In the beginning though, I would meditate and spend some time in sanctuary first. I really TRY not to complicate this whole thing, just take what comes along. I think like some others here, this is just magic. Some of it is hard to explain so I can only tell you how it works for me. (Bet you won't ask me anymore questions.) Thanks for letting me share. Sandy stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/477)
14:25:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
...DO NOT ATTEMPT TO LOOK > HIGHER THAN THE FEET at the cross...it will be a little disturbing and you > will not be able to move your eyes any higher anyhow but the rudesness of your > being propelled from your RV state may be a little unnerving and even a little > dangerous if you are not careful...you can actually fall over backwards in > your chair....now I know you will want to do this now...expecially the folks > who alleged specialize in past event viewing...YOU WERE WARNED...!!!! > > Gene Kincaide... Gene, Thanks for the warning, but....as probably tens of our friends on this list, I would love now to hear about what *you* 've discovered "higher than the feet at the cross" to give us such a recommandation. Would you be so kind as to share what you've *personnaly* found up there ? If this is out of this list purpose I'd more than happy to get your datas by direct E-mail. Thanks in advance, Jean-Luc stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/478)
14:26:05
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>> Why can't you? Please don't take offense at my question..and I'm sorry in advance if it's one of those stupid ones, but I'm genuinely curious. Why can't you look any higher? Also, if you would be so kind...I'm a non- RVer, so use little words ;-) Siochain, Vikki >> Vikki: It is part of the magic...religious sites do not lend themselves to RV. I am a Roman Catholic and I have found that anytime I want to humble and smartass viewer who begins to think they know it all, I simply provide them Calvary on the day of the Crucifixion. I have seen Viewers so suddenly thrown from their altered state that they get tossed from the bed or sofa on which they are reclining. In my opinion, RV is most certainly one of the gifts provided by a benevolent God and abusing it carries a heavy fine...(like playing the lotteries incidentally...but again that is my humble opinion...don't want to get those heathens in Hawaii after me again...hahah)...at any rate since you asked, I will simply say that viewing the face of what I perceived to be God is not possible for a living human therefore you will not be permitted to view higher than the feet of the Crucifixion. Which of course, will cause lots of people who read this to "try me onb"..sheeezzzz....Oh well... Gene Kincaid... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/479)
14:26:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
>> Thanks for the warning, but....as probably tens of our friends on this list, I would love now to hear about what *you* 've discovered "higher than the feet at the cross" to give us such a recommandation. >> As noted in a previous answer to someone else on the net on this same question...I have found nothing for the same reason as I told the other person...I am not priviledged enough to be able to look higher than the feet...hell I am not even a very good Viewer...second best Monitor in the world..but not a very good viewer...viewing the face of God (any God) is not a priviledge of RV...it is an abuse of the gift of RV given to mankind by God...I view playing lotteries and Las Vegas with RV to be equally an abuse of the gift knowing full well that the crew in Hawaii will now attempt to take my head again...oh well....I also know there will be a dozen hot shots out there who will take this as a challenge and come back with all sorts of stories about how THEY had no problems and BTW here is a description of Jesus or Mohamed..oh well again...whatever makes their little hearts beat regular...hahaha Gene... stargate : Message: [stargate]
Please Invite
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/480)
14:26:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
I know this is probably not the right place to ask but I am not always that "proper" in my conduct..Anyhow..attached Email address is a young Dutch lady who has become an accomplished viewer under the tutalage of Liam and Sandy...She uses CRV and works in Reiki 5 concepts as well as some other pretty neat things...She would be an excellent resource for the net...speaks perfect English so there will not be a language problem...Steve...don't let her go...the net will benefit from her input... Regards...Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/481)
14:26:34
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f all concerned will look back at my Post on figure 8s, originally, I specified to Edith that the symbol glossary was peculiar to the viewer. There was no mention that all viewers 'got' that symbol, I certainly never have in my 35 years of viewing. As far as I know, the tornado symbols is also peculiar only to my own DEW system. Bevy J Ps: You need not have developed the wheel to draw a circle, a figure 8 or a recurved spiral, all of which have similar bases in the psyche. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights/Lyn's input
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/482)
14:26:43
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lol thanks Lyn. I would assume that 99 point type would be big enough for even my poor vision to see well. :) Hope all will take the advice we both gave. It wards off a ton of trouble. :) Lyn Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Please Invite
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/483)
14:26:55
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>perfect English so there will not be a language problem...Steve...don't let >her go...the net will benefit from her input... Hi Gene, The best way to invite a person to the Star Gate list is for people to write to their friends/contacts themselves, and give them this address: stargate-subscribe@..., and ask them to send a blank email to that address (or just fill it with gibberish; either way, the contents don't matter as they're ignored and not even read.) I will send an invite if you prefer, or you may do so (let me know by private email which you'd prefer.) However, technically, my inviting a person or them receiving an invite from a friend does not make much difference, it takes just as long to process. But anyway, thanks for the address! New members are always welcome, providing they're reasonably polite and respectful to other list members. I just provide this info here in case others were thinking of posting other addresses on the list. You're the best person to invite your friends to join, really. Everyone's welcome here, though! Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/484)
14:27:17
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>STOP!!! Before this gets going down the wrong roads...You will not be able to >use the computer to monitor CRV sessions...Ain't gonna happen!...PERIOD............... For about two years now I have been developing some protocols >(hit and miss) whereby I train and conduct sessions with Viewers using only >computer Email connections. I recently put a set of coordinates on the Site >and got back two sets of excellent results. Well Gene I guess you are only partly correct. OBVIOUSLY YOU MUST be the only one who can monitor over the internet. Best Regards, Bill Pendergrass stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/485)
14:27:28
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>Vikki: It is part of the magic...religious sites do not lend >themselves to RV. Thank you, Gene for explaining this. It has, however, brought another question to mind. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand. Please feel free to say, "Oh! hush up, Vikki" ;-) Here's the question..please don't throw anything heavy..Wouldn't the site coordinates, that you gave not too long ago, be considered a religious site? Terri seemed to have been able to view that and provide quite a bit of information. >I am a Roman Catholic and I have found that anytime I want to humble >and smartass viewer who begins to think they know it all, I simply >provide them Calvary on the day of the Crucifixion. I have seen >Viewers so suddenly thrown from their altered state that they get >tossed from the bed or sofa on which they are reclining. Has anyone ever suggested that you might have a teensy bit of an onery streak? ;-) All kidding aside..This too raises another question..I was raised in a Roman Catholic environment as well. My teachers and priests were from the Franciscan Order, a very gentle and loving group of people. I was wondering if the way you were taught the specific doctrine might come into play regarding being able to view beyond the feet? Of course this is all speculative on my part and I have no experience to base any of this on..just a pondering. >I will simply say that viewing >the face of what I perceived to be God is not possible for a living >human therefore you will not be permitted to view higher than the feet >of the Crucifixion. Do you believe that to be true for everyone..okay stupid question, you just stated as much..let me rephrase it..if someone didn't believe that Jesus was the son of God (I mean truly deep in their heart didn't believe it) do you think they would have the same outcome? Or would it then become similar to the site you gave before and they would be able to view it as there wasn't a theological reason that prevented it? >Which of course, will cause lots of people who read this to "try >me onb"..sheeezzzz....Oh well... Perhaps they'll heed your warning and sit on the floor to try ;-) Thanks again for taking the time to explain this to me. It is appreciated. Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/486)
14:27:39
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>> >> Thanks for the warning, but....as probably tens of our friends on this list, I would love now to hear about what *you* 've discovered "higher than the feet at the cross" to give us such a recommandation. >> GENE WRITES..... As noted in a previous answer to someone else on the net on this same question...I have found nothing for the same reason as I told the other person...I am not priviledged enough to be able to look higher than the feet...hell I am not even a very good Viewer...second best Monitor in the world..but not a very good viewer...viewing the face of God (any God) is not a priviledge of RV... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gene, as you know we have vastly different viewpoints, in certain areas, sheesh... since when did you become #2 monitor... Heck, I want a refund, I thought I had the worlds greatest... (by the way, you'll have a hard time convincing me your not) You wrote " ...I am not priviledged enough to be able to look higher than the feet... " This is MY viewpoint, its not so much the "privilege" of being able to see the body, (the face) whatever, above the feet, its the tumultuous rolling swirling extreme mass of intense energy that surrounds it (the body) , we just flat cant comprehend/understand it. Thats all there is to it we just cant understand it, (our main viewpoint right now being physical) and I think you will gain more insights out getting the Dead Sea scrolls realeased/translated from Claremont College, Calif. (last I heard this is where they were at, or held prisoner) ... than to (try) view God or Jesus. The energies surrounding the body, a large crew of them, seem mostly to have not have a physical life incarnation, so non physical energies, which are for me near impossible to communicate with, or receive communication from. For me to simply sense on the outside of these energies barely barely 'feel' , is like being put in a clothes dyer, shut the door, light goes off, physical boundaries disappear, and you are rollin and tumbling, physical anchor points gone, no ups nor downs, ins nor outs... takes your breath away, heck you dont have any there :-) but never ever was I under the impression that I was trespassing on too holly or sacred ground... but then again maybe I missed that part.... I just couldn't understand, the energy... so why sit in it? My week-distorted-uncomprehending perspective of God, the creator, or the initiator as I call the energy source, is, If you saw 'it' him in a physical form, dressed in a long robe.. well I feel I am on the bottom hem ... or kindergarten. I am of this 'energy"... yes... ummm, or perhaps nothing but a viewpoint it has put out :-) a baby..... the physical universe creation (school?) is wonderful?, because we do have so many points to view, so many viewpoints to exchange, so we do, and compound and combine and create, and create.. Thats my 2 cents... (as someone told me once I had no common sense :-) ~T~ stargate : Message: [stargate]
Jesus crucifixion day
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/487)
14:29:09
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Curran2106@... wrote: > ....I also know there will be a dozen hot shots out there > who will take this as a challenge and come back with all sorts of stories > about how THEY had no problems and BTW here is a description of Jesus or > Mohamed..oh well again...whatever makes their little hearts beat > regular...hahaha > Gene... Dear friends, Hope those of you not interested in the following will forgive me to pass it on this list. But I'm sure we have RV pearls on this forum and I, personaly, would appreciate very much what you, dear friends, could share by RVing "Jesus at the crucifixion day". I'd love to share our views if any, from the rver point of view, just for the pleasure to approach elements of interesting past realities. I know, I know we'll probably exchange lot of Stray Cats and other imagination's fables. Doesn't matter.Let's just see if we get common items or not, clichés or new things, in the calm and respect of the target. I can understand that the exchange of such RVing results may eventualy be off topic of this list, or boring to some extent. So, if somebody's interested, please feel free to send me eventualy your inputs privately if you feel it's better. My starting questions are : Do you know a good remote viewer whos has done this kind of session before ? Are his/her resultats available on the net ? Now *from your experience* is Jesus rather tall, rather medium, or small ? From * your experience* what colour were His hair ? How long were they ? From *your experience*, what colour were His eyes ? How was his nose ? His skin ? How was he built [slender, average, heavy] ? Can you give more details to get a profile ? My E-mail is : hm15@... and I'll be grateful to any contributor. Warm regards Jean-Luc Thanks Steve (and Gene, who opened the box) to give us such an opportunity, Hope you enjoy, and, no...I know I wasn't on the target location at the target's time. No challenge here, just one more experience to share for those interested in ;-) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/488)
14:29:21
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>> Well Gene I guess you are only partly correct. OBVIOUSLY YOU MUST be the only one who can monitor over the internet. >> Folks need to read my posting a little closer...everyone once in a while I do have something of value to say...in this case, I distinctly noted that I teach and monitor ERV...repeat ERV not CRV repeat CRV...got it...now read my post again and you will see that I noted you cannot monitor CRV by computer..but I am working on protocols for monitoring ERV by computer...I figured a PHD would be able to discern the single letter difference and the impact it makes on the posting since the same PHD was quick enough to let me know just how important 8% was in "scientific terms..."...STOP IT GENE!!! You will only get Steve bad at you again...Sorry. Bill...but do read my posting a bit closer in the future... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/489)
14:30:06
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
>> Here's the question..please don't throw anything heavy..Wouldn't the site coordinates, that you gave not too long ago, be considered a religious site? Terri seemed to have been able to view that and provide quite a bit of information. >> Yes...it was a religious site...and neither individual actually moved to the center of the "energy" related to this site....Terri is very adept at finding these energies and relishes the opportunity to allow these energies to move through her but that is not the same as positively "looking" at them... Gene...(duck!!!!!!) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/490)
14:30:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Terri (my former student - now moving on to greater goals)..has stated it much better than my Catholic guilt upbringing can...Yes, you can attempt to move your eyes up the Crucifix but the energies of this site will blur and diminish any positive analysis or descriptions...especially liked her analogy of getting inside a washing machine ... great stuff ... Terri also noted the various problems associated with religious sites in that these energies can be overwhelming...this is also true...and often when a viewer is at a religious site, that is about all you can expect to get from the viewer is a whirl of data which does not make much sense....BTW...Terri did have the 2nd best monitor in the world...Skip Atwater being the best..he taught me...but not to worry, if you want your money back Terri, I will give you every cent you paid...hahahahha For those of you who may be interested, Terri has "graduated" magna cum laude from my training and is not working practice targets with me so that we can both perfect the concept of monitoring by computer....She is also going to attempt some other endeavors related to RV which I am not at liberty to mention but are indicative of her skills...I did a great job in teaching her...but even old arrogant me cannot take credit for where she is moving in this thing we call RV...Watch out folks...new star on the horizon... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/491)
14:30:38
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>Yes...it was a religious site...and neither individual actually >moved to the center of the "energy" related to this site.... move >through her but that is not the same as positively "looking" at them... You are referring to the energy Terri said she felt was in the ground or had been at one time, yes? I see the difference in what you are saying. View is not equal to look.....got it! >Gene...(duck!!!!!!) Oh, Man! Who's gonna clean THAT up?!?! ;-) Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
automatic writing vs ideogram
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/492)
14:30:48
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Hi Sandy! Thanks for the really excellent response to my question and more ( smile). Being very analytical my left brain invades right brain activities like psi and after figuring out what the right brain is doing, "simulates" a right brain response. I doubt that I'm the only one that has this problem, and you Sandy sound like someone who might have some answer. This results in getting a positive string of hits in psi work when I first start say with a pendulum, or cards, or dowsing but then the left brain analyzes the signal from my right brain and simulates it producing bogus answers. So I have to keep changing techniques. (The only thing that is proofed against this is reading auras and disease states in the aura as taught by Rob Abbott, but that may relate to the much higher psychic energy involved in disease states.) I've even considered ( in the name of science only) trying some drugs. But if you have a magic ceremony that does the same thing please write me. I'm a little unclear if I got all of that smoke ceremony down correctly. Best Regards ( and you have a neat w stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jesus crucifixion day
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/493)
14:30:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
In a message dated 98-07-24 16:11:22 EDT, you write: >> My starting questions are : Do you know a good remote viewer whos has done this kind of session before ? Are his/her resultats available on the net ? Now *from your experience* is Jesus rather tall, rather medium, or small ? From * your experience* what colour were His hair ? How long were they ? From *your experience*, what colour were His eyes ? How was his nose ? His skin ? How was he built [slender, average, heavy] ? Can you give more details to get a profile ? My E-mail is : hm15@... and I'll be grateful to any contributor. >> See I TOLD YOU!!!...nobody believes the old elephants...oh well..Ya'll have a good time...sheeezzzz... Gene...... ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/494)
14:31:12
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Gene...(duck!!!!!!) >> . . . . . . ok this is Terri talking now. It helps me I think in my RVing, my viewpoint, well I dont want to offend anyone here, you may have figured this out already, I dont think I have a religious, Christian religion (choose whatever type) bone in my body.... but then again maybe in my pinkie or baby toe :-) I have beliefs or I would not be here in the physical. I have agreed to believe. I believe :-) something (we, all of us, creator) created the physical, and just sort of said well here ya go, have fun... On the OTHER hand are we all dreaming...?? ~Terri~ R O T F L stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jesus crucifixion day
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/495)
14:31:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Hi all; Liam here. > >But I'm sure we have RV pearls on this forum and I, personally, would appreciate >very much what you, dear friends, could share by RVing "Jesus at the crucifixion >day". I'd love to share our views if any, from the RVer point of view, Sorry Jean Luc, the basic rule of RVing (at least in the world according to Liam) is if you know what you are RVing, then you cannot RV it. The only thing you are viewing then is your imagination. > > >My starting questions are : >Do you know a good remote viewer whos has done this kind of session before ? In approximately 1986, Skip Atwater worked me on this site as a practice site. We worked it single blind. Skip, the monitor, knew what the site was. I worked blind. Gene acknowledges Skip as the greatest monitor in the world. At the time I had been involved in remote viewing eight hours a day, five days a week for approximately three years, Paul and I were doing the majority of the viewing for the project. Not trying to brag, just trying to validate we had a competent team working the site. We worked it CRV. Early in S4 a Tangible of Cross came in. Intangibles of sacred, somber, and a whole lot of very heavy, somber feeling. I focussed first on the soldiers guarding the site (I am a soldier at heart and find I have a lot in common with other soldiers, regardless of time or nationality) I also identified a woman at the foot of the cross, his mother. I knew there was a body on the cross, but I was not able to view it. . I could not pick up any of His last words. I did pick up his concern for his mother. I was able to pick up a lot of what the other people around were feeling, but as for that body on the cross.....it was beyond me (I did have a distinct impression however; that He was Irish). Now, I may be just another superstitious Irishman, but like Gene, I believe that God (anybody's God) is unviewable. Jean Luc, I cannot imagine what difference it makes if Christ was short, tall, fat, or thin (I already told you he was Irish, so you know he was good looking). I have no problem with anyone trying to view the crucifixion. I just do not believe you will have a whole lot of success in viewing Christ. It has been my experience in life, that God is not in the business of satisfying my curiosity. slainte May the force be with you Liam> stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jesus crucifixion day
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/496)
14:31:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
In response to all these questions (which arose despite Gene's assertion that dieties cannot be seen with RV): > My starting questions are : > Do you know a good remote viewer whos has done this kind of session before ? > Are his/her resultats available on the net ? > Now *from your experience* is Jesus rather tall, rather medium, or small ? > From * your experience* what colour were His hair ? How long were they ? > From *your experience*, what colour were His eyes ? > How was his nose ? His skin ? > How was he built [slender, average, heavy] ? > Can you give more details to get a profile ? ... an exasperated Gene then wrote: > See I TOLD YOU!!!...nobody believes the old elephants...oh well..Ya'll have a > good time...sheeezzzz... > Gene...... I thought that Joe McMoneagle was once tasked on Jesus ... (OK, so maybe he didn't see him, I dunno ...) All I read about was his remark: "Whatever you think this guy did -- he didn't do it!" Anyone know any more about this? -- John Burke stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/497)
14:32:10
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
>Yes but if you were taught by an instructor that wavy represents water >or land right angles represent man made structures and loops represent >LFs wouldn't some peoples subconcious start producing standard ideos. >It's like learning any new language if your told that a loop equals a >LF your sub will pick up on LF and draw a loop because that is what >you've been taught represents that gestalt. I realize that every >individual is not the same that is obvious but it would be interesting >if a standard language was or could be developing something akin to >the 100th monkey effect. I won't comment on what that says about that instructor's knowledge of the subject. Let me go on instead and say that there is some "trainability" to the subconscious mind, but not a lot. Can you train it to standardize on 5 ideograms? Maybe so. A few more? Maybe so. But a whole language of ideograms? If you can train your subconscious mind to do that, you can make a better living running an obedience school for cats than you can doing CRV. That isn't to say that the 100th monkey effect isn't playing a part. I know that most people, for example, draw a straight line for "land". That's no surprise. Nor is a wavy line for "water". But as for why the majority of people draw a circle for "space" and an angle for "manmade"... I think the 100th monkey effect may be kicking in at least a little. Beyond those basics, though, each student generally comes up with something different. Add to that the fact that, about a year into doing ideograms, your subconscious mind will have a tendency to say, "OH! I see what we're doing now!" and decide to get things organized. It changes a significant number of your ideograms to suit its own likes and dislikes and then you have to go through a time of relearning the revised set. Add to that the fact that it will probably happen again, to a lesser extent, after about another year, before settling down into a truely dependable set of ideograms, and you can see the problem. This tends to happen even to those people who have been told what their ideograms will look like. That instructor may not have been doing ideograms long enough to be aware of this little tendency. Maybe some day there will be such a union of human minds that ideograms will automatically standardize. That would really be a nice thing to happen. But at this stage in our history, for an instructor to tell you what your subconscious mind will and won't do - well, I don't want to be offensive to anyone, but like I say, that tells me more about that instructor's knowledge of the subject than I care to know. My apologies if that offends. I really don't mean for it to. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/498)
14:32:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
At 06:51 PM 7/23/98 -0700, David Hathcock wrote about timelines: I would like to add to David's great advice that if you treat a "timeline" as though it were just a very highly structured ideogram... gaining feelings from it as you go, it works very well. David continued: >At least you may give it a try if you continue the 'operational' target >activity. I'll bet Gene can add regarding time moves on event/activity >targets as well. You will find that Gene is very experienced in this and can be very helpful. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: [stargate]
Indivuellagrams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/499)
14:32:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
At 06:19 PM 7/23/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hello...Lyn...bout time you popped into the discussions here...thanx for >affirming the idea of ideograms being individuellagrams...hmmm...I like >that...I claim it...nobody else can use it...I will market that word and make >my forturn in RV...hahahah.... Anyhow..glad to see you and your comments... >Gene... Well, I guess the rest of us are stuck with personalograms or something like that. Tell you what... If we steal it from you, we'll use quote marks. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/500)
14:32:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000401-000500---------
Re: [stargate] working the targets? The discussion of working the targets using form pages somehow turned into a discussion on monitoring. Well, if I'm gonna be on the list, let me throw in my 2cents worth on these, too. As Angela Thompson said, the form pages are both good reminders of what other categories of information you could go after, but they are also confining. As for the limited use of vocabulary, I thought that Ed Dames was the only one doing something like that. I guess that got around to Courtney (Ed's student) and then was passed on even further. What a mistake. The impressions should come from within, not from a laundry list. Anyway, I won't comment too much on the Monitor bit, except for Gene's excellent blast... I agree that there is NO substitute for having a monitor - if, that is, it is a well trained monitor. IMO, though, if the monitor is poorly trained, or not trained at all, you're generally better off without one. Then you will only have your own AOLs to contend with, not the monitor's, too. If you train your own monitor and don't know the professional principles of monitoring, PLEASE train them to do the following things: 1) give the coordinates and then shut up. 2) tell you the page number when you go to the next page (so you don't have to break your concentration),.... then shut up. 3) if they ever get the thought in their head, "Ooooh! I know what it is!!!", to not just shut up, but to leave the room to do it. 4) in all other cases, just shut up. The monitoring job is enormously more difficult and intricate than the viewing job. As a viewer, all you have to do is get a perception and write it down - not doing more is the hard part. A monitor is responsible for reading the viewer's moods, micromovements, taking in-session notes without disturbing the viewer, keeping strict control over any on-lookers in the room, setting up the room in the first place, watching the viewer's adherance to structure, keeping the viewer in structure without leading or feeding the viewer any information, etc. etc. etc. The list of responsibilities goes on and on. There are so many parts of the monitor's job which must be done by direct interaction with the viewer, that any viewing over the net or phone may as well be done by pony express. I cannot repeat Gene's statement enough that you need a monitor IN THE ROOM with the viewer. How can you tell over the phone or internet that a viewer's pupils just suddenly contracted and then enlarged? That is a prime indicator that he/she has just experienced a visual STRAY CAT (AOL for all you old timers). How can you tell over the phone or net that a viewer has just shifted to one side or turned his/her writing paper to an unusual (to him/her) angle? You can't. Over the phone, you would just miss too many things to be as effective as you need to be. Like Gene says, you need a monitor IN THE ROOM. As for the fact that Gene then continues to say that he has been developing a protocol for monitoring over an email connection, I stand totally confused. There is a monitor's manual already in print. It was developed from several years of sitting in dark CRV rooms making observations of Skip Atwater's natural monitoring procedures. He has a natural talent for the monitoring process which I don't think will ever be equaled by anyone. The manual goes with my monitor's course, and no, it isn't free without the course. When I train viewers in the Viewers' course, I give them instruction in monitoring as well, and train them to monitor each other. They get a copy of the monitor's manual, and you probably won't have too hard a time getting a pirated copy of it. Just don't let me know. Thanks. BTW: this all started from Darryl's question: >I am an artist by trade, but my sketches are nowhere near as good as my >verbal dscriptions of the target are there any reasons/other instances of >this within rv? While I'm making a nuisance of myself, let me comment on that, as well. Darryl, if you realize that the sketches are reprentations of the target >>>as your subconscious mind sees it>><, not as your conscious mind sees it, you will begin to find things in the CRV sketches that you never realized were there. If you consider sketch as a 2-dimensional ideogram (the Ideogram being 1-dimensional and the Stage 6 model being a 3-dimensional ideogram), you will quickly realize that by feeling around on that sketch, you can use it to get all sorts of very highly detailed information. It actually is an ideogram of sorts, since it is your subconscious mind's representation of what >>>it>>> is perceiving. As you get the added perceptions from the sketch, you can either verbalize them or add to the sketch. Either way, you are gaining more and more contact with the target. And that ain't bad. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com

// END ARCHIVE BLOCK #5.

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Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #5. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 401. Last Message Number: 500
First Message Date: July 17, 1998. Last Message Date: July 25, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000401-000500.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)

Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #6. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 501. Last Message Number: 600
First Message Date: July 25, 1998. Last Message Date: July 31, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000501-000600.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



BEGIN ARCHIVE BLOCK #6.

stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/501
14:44:47
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
Dear Vikki, At first, I was going to stay away from this one, but because of a single session which became a turning point in my life, I just have to jump in. Hope it doesn't start a ruckus. If so, I won't respond further, so the ruckus will stop. That's not our purpose here. At 08:33 AM 7/24/98 EDT, Gene wrote: (snip) >....religious sites do not lend themselves to RV. (snip) >.....I will simply say that viewing >the face of what I perceived to be God is not possible for a living human >therefore you will not be permitted to view higher than the feet of the >Crucifixion. --------------------------- I had once had several weeks of viewing bad guys and went to the unit director to ask for a little relief from the heavy stuff. "You're a soldier," he said, "suck it up and do your job." For the next two days, I got dope lords and militant crazies as targets, but then, on the third day, I went into the viewing room with my monitor and started the session. The frontloading was, "The target is a person. Describe the person." I started the session, and immediately told the monitor, "I don't know what this guy is supposed to have done, but he didn't do it. - He's not one of the bad guys." The session continued, and I got very strong access to this target person. As site contact grew, I became more and more convinced that this was not an evil person. In fact, I became awe-stricken by the innate goodness I felt from this guy. By the time the session was half way through, I felt like I was glowing all over. I remember that I could feel my cheeks and hands radiating a warm, expansive feeling. It was wonderful. I gained direct access to this person mentally and found myself directly involved with the most perfect human I had ever met. We continued the session together. He was actually very lovingly helping me do my own session. I completed the personality profile procedure and ended the session, but the glow didn't end. In fact, it hasn't yet. That was the most wonderful session I have ever done, and it was a changing point in my life. There was so much love and honesty and friendliness in this person that I began to actually feel love and a total sense of admiration for him. By the end of the session, I felt I could love the table, the chair, the walls, the monitor, life itself, my own existance, etc. Everything which came to my mind was seen in a totally new light. Then the monitor opened the envelope. Printed on the middle of the page was one word: "Jesus". To say that RVing God is an abuse of a God-given ability is the equivalent of saying that praying directly to God is an abuse of prayer. There are some sects, religions and denominations which believe that, and I guess that they would not be able to look God or Jesus in the face. I think that those same people probably believe that the most proper use for a ruler is to crack the knuckles of misbehaving kids. My religious background is that God is a loving god and a warm and welcoming father. I guess Gene will now call me one of the smartass people, but I think that the answer you got from Gene is more Gene than RV, just as the answer you are now getting from me is more me than RV. When Gene approached Jesus, he couldn't go further than to look at His feet. When I approached Jesus, I was welcomed with total openness and love. I'm certainly no better a person than Gene is. I have to think that the difference is one of entrenched belief systems. The answer, then, seems to be that when we view, we bring ourselves into the session with us. If you come into the session believing that God is unattainable, you won't be able to view Him. If you come into the session believing that God will welcome you, you can. I know that one of Liam's most valued sessions was such a religious target. In training and practice sessions in the unit, we used a lot of religious targets. They have good, historically recorded feedback, and therefore make good practice for viewing past events. No one that I know of ever "fell off their chair" viewing the crucifixion or found it impossible to view Jesus or God. >I am a Roman Catholic and I have found that anytime I want to humble and >smartass viewer who begins to think they know it all, I simply provide them >Calvary on the day of the Crucifixion. I have seen Viewers so suddenly thrown >from their altered state..... This comment is not about viewing religious targets, but about a much more basic-to-CRV problem we had in the unit. There is a rule in CRV that the viewer's subconscious has to be ultimately in charge of the session. After all, it is supposed to be the only one in the room which has contact with the target. The issue of "monitor control" has been around for years, and was a constant problem throughout the unit's history. There are many who worked as monitor only who were adamant that the monitor has to be in absolute control of the session. The fact that those sessions always end up in disaster or AOL-ville never phased their resolve. There were others who were also viewers, who are just as adamant that the monitor is there to serve the viewer's subconscious as it does its work. It is an old argument, and you can easily tell which side I am on - and you can also tell which side other people are on, as well. I was never really a fervent supporter of either side of this conflict until the first session I had with Gene as monitor. It was an ERV session. I think that Gene had been in the unit for less than a week, and we hadn't broken him in yet. He was still an interrogator at heart. Anyway, the target was a foreign military leader. I had cooled down and gained the hypnogogic state. Gene, who in spite of this story, is an excellent monitor, eased me into the session by very quitely giving the coordinates. Once I had accessed the man, Gene instructed me to describe him. I always start my personality profile by gaining phyiscal descriptors. Once I have gained full physical contact and can see the person's face clearly, I then move on to the personality profiling procedure. It is just my way of gaining greater site contact. (Yes, I saw the face of Jesus clearly. It wasn't like any picture I've ever seen hanging in a church, so I didn't recognize the face as His.) Anyway, Gene asked for a description of this target person, and when I started describing the man's clothing, Gene shouted at the top of his voice (or so it seemed to me in that hypnogogic state) "DON'T GIVE ME THAT S__T!" Needless to say, after I peeled myself off the ceiling (not physically, so don't go making stories out of it), the session was over. No information of value came from that session. Today, when I train viewers, I begin by telling them that the first, absolute, and totally non-breachable rule of CRV is that "The VIEWER is and must be in absolute and total charge of the session, and that that authority must never be relinquished to the monitor, the trainer, the customer, or anyone else for any reason. I teach that it is the one rule in CRV to which there can be no exceptions. >.....that they get tossed from the bed or sofa on which they are reclining. C'mon, Gene. Wouldn't be some of that good ol' Irish Blarney we keep hearing about, now would it? BTW: Courtney once asked me what Jesus told me in that life-changing session - what instructions He gave me. The only reply I had was that when you're in the presence of Jesus, He doesn't have to tell you what you are or what you must do. You know. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets?-
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/502

~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
At 05:04 PM 7/24/98 EDT, Gene wrote: >Folks need to read my posting a little closer...everyone once in a while I do >have something of value to say...in this case, I distinctly noted that I teach >and monitor ERV...repeat ERV not CRV repeat CRV...got it...now read my post >again and you will see that I noted you cannot monitor CRV by computer..but I >am working on protocols for monitoring ERV by computer. Thanks, Gene. That cleared up some confusion for me, too. I had read it too quickly, I guess, and did confuse the two. >.....I figured a PHD would >be able to discern the single letter difference and the impact it makes on the >posting since the same PHD was quick enough to let me know just how important >8% was in "scientific terms..." I've been working on the computer too long at a time. For me, "PHD" is getting to mean "Push Here, Dummy!" more and more these days. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jesus crucifixion day -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/503
14:45:09
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
>I thought that Joe McMoneagle was once tasked on Jesus ... (OK, so maybe he >didn't see him, I dunno ...) All I read about was his remark: "Whatever you >think this guy did -- he didn't do it!" > >Anyone know any more about this? > -- John Burke As mentioned in a previous message, that was my session. The monitor was a guy who now calls himself Liam. The comment was because I had done one bad guy after another for weeks on end, and had the STRAY CAT (AOL) that this session was just another bad guy. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: [stargate]
Thank you darlin . . . -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/504
14:45:30
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
<< For those of you who may be interested, Terri has "graduated" magna cum laude from my training and is not working practice targets with me so that we can both perfect the concept of monitoring by computer... etc. etc............. Gene ... the biggest hug and kiss to you and a Thank You, for your kindness, PATIENCE, and generosity, and for all of the times, where your words were my freedoms. . . . . . . . . . . I never could have come this far without you... Remember always..... I am your angel standing by. ~T~ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Please Invite -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/505
14:45:41
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
>I will send an invite if you prefer, or you may do so (let me know by >private >email which you'd prefer.) However, technically, my inviting a person or >them receiving an invite from a friend does not make much difference, >it takes just as long to process. > > Hi Gene , Steve. While you guys were trying to decide who was going to ask her, I asked her. She should be on the net later today. slainte Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Please Invite -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/506
14:45:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
>While you guys were trying to decide who was going to ask her, I asked her. >She should be on the net later today. Hi Liam, I got her request to join earlier today, and she's been added to the subscriber list. I'm not sure who I've got to thank, but she should be receiving a copy of this message along with the rest of us. So, whoever you are, welcome to the list! :) Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/507
14:46:05
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
Hi Lyn, Welcome to the list! >>.....I figured a PHD would >>be able to discern the single letter difference and the impact it makes on >>the posting since the same PHD was quick enough to let me know just >>how important 8% was in "scientific terms..." >I've been working on the computer too long at a time. For me, "PHD" is >getting to mean "Push Here, Dummy!" more and more these days. Yeah, and is part of the reason I don't ever take a claim at face-value, whoever is saying it.. he can be a PhD with a long string of degrees, but until I see the data, a claim is all it'll be in my books. I've been talking about the possibility of setting up an online experiment to test psi against various things (targets, red/black cards, etc.) The talks become kind of political though, so the planning is are now mostly underground.. when they surface, everyone will know about it though ;) My interest in the red/black binary experiment was sparked by something you'd said on the Art Bell show, actually, so I have you to thank for getting me started down this whole route - thanks, Lyn! :) BTW, the 8% thing. This started as a debate about the idea of setting up an online experiment involving red and black cards. I remembered you saying on the Art Bell Show that you'd been running an extended experiment on it and had got so far 58.3% accuracy.. (hence the 8% thing). Later turns out you said 68.3% and I'd misremembered the first digit (well, two digits out of three isn't bad :), but it did kind of change focus of the debate.. it wasn't a "mere 8.3%" but 18.3%.. Can you tell us a little more abou this experiment? Some have suggested that in the heat of the moment, you may have misremembered from an event long in the past.. and that in the long run you'd only get 50% accuracy.. but I seem to recall you mentioning the red/black experiment was recent and an extended experiment at that. Can you shed any more light on this..? Thanks! :-) Best always, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jesus crucifixion day -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/508
14:46:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
>As mentioned in a previous message, that was my session. The monitor was a >guy who now calls himself Liam. The comment was because I had done one bad >guy after another for weeks on end, and had the STRAY CAT (AOL) that this >session was just another bad guy. Hi Lyn, I remember you mentioning this on the Art Bell show. I always always confused by the part where you said "whatever you think this guy did, he didn't do it" - I'm glad you cleared that up, because I read that to mean he wasn't what Christians believed him to be, that he was the son of God (he didn't do it?). But put in context of all the bad guys you'd had to view the weeks beforehand, I can understand why that comment was funny now =) (He didn't commit the crime..) Cheers, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Who's in Charge -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/509
14:46:29
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
Hi Lyn and all, Liam here. Good to see you posting again Lyn. I was concerned you might be having a computer problem. I considered calling and offering my assistance Chalk one more up for Sheldrake. I was getting ready to post on this matter when I read your post below. snip There is a rule in CRV that the >viewer's subconscious has to be ultimately in charge of the session. After >all, it is supposed to be the only one in the room which has contact with >the target. The issue of "monitor control" has been around for years, and >was a constant problem throughout the unit's history. There are many who >worked as monitor only who were adamant that the monitor has to be in >absolute control of the session. The fact that those sessions always end >up in disaster or AOL-ville never phased their resolve. There were others >who were also viewers, who are just as adamant that the monitor is there to >serve the viewer's subconscious as it does its work. It is an old >argument, and you can easily tell which side I am on - and you can also >tell which side other people are on, as well. > snip This topic came up on P J 's web. The military folks , you, Gene, Paul, Joe, and Greg, and everyone else in the world, believed the Viewer was in charge of the session. Like all Irishmen, I am peace loving and abhor a fight. I therefor did not chip in. An RV team is like a marriage, nobody is really in charge (I can comfortably say that I am in charge in my marriage. I can say that because I am comfortable in my masculinity, I am a natural born leader and should logically be in charge, and because Sandy has gone on a trip to Paris and I can delete this before she gets back). The rule that the viewer is in charge is like the rule that the husband is in charge. I think this is a very good rule, but it is unenforceable. Just ask any husband who has stumbled home at 3 AM singing Irish ballads, with Guinness on his breath and been meant at the door by a crazy Indian woman, who refuses to buy my, I mean his, very plausible explanation that he was just doing cultural research into his ethnic roots. This, of course, has never happened to me, but I have heard stories. Ask yourself this; You have two people in a room. One is intelligent clear eyed and firm of jaw. The other one's eyes are glazed over. The person looks like he just went 15 rounds with Ali and Mike Tyson and they let Ali and Tyson bring baseball bats into the ring. This person cannot spell RV and if the person walks out in the middle of the session, you will have to put a leash on him to keep him from wandering into traffic and being hit by a truck. Well Liam, I chose the idiot. You know the guy who just misspelled his own name at the top of the paper. If that is the case I would like to enlist you into the 7th Cav and you can follow Custer down into that valley. Have you ever heard a viewer say "Hey. I must be door knobing. Why don't you move me 30 meters straight up or 50 meters to the South. Or how about "I must be in AOL drive. I bet those last four pages are just a bunch of crap. Viewers will at times, when left on their own, avoid the mutilated body of the child under the bushes by the river and tell you in great detail about the river and the various types of fish swimming in it. Viewers can at times spend the whole session describing a park, with flowers, trees, and birds, instead of walking out of the park, crossing the street, going into the building, down the stairs into the room where the poor bastard (who is the target of the session) is having electrodes attached to various parts of his body. When the monitor gives the viewer the chance to pick out some words to S5 I get a comfortable feeling when the viewer says "I FEEL this is important but I have no idea why" The opposite of that is when the viewer says " I THINK the AOL of ice cream cone is important because I KNEW I was in a jungle and ice cream cones would be hard to come by. IMO, no one is really in charge of the session (or a marriage). It is disciplined anarchy (try explaining that to General Odom). This worked well at Ft Meade, with the exception of a few individuals. For the most part; if it has to do with the signal line, instinct, or gut feeling, the viewer will call the shots. If it has to do with logic, structure, or support to the session (setting up, getting coffee, etc) the monitor is responsible. RV works best when the Viewer does not think, and the monitor does not feel. There are two people in the room, but there is only one brain, and it does not belong to the one person who is in contact with the site. slainte May the force be with you. Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jesus crucifixion day -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/510
14:46:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
Re: [stargate] Jesus crucifixion day courtny brouwn in his book cosmic voyage he has some session with jesus he meet him and talk to him but what he writes in the book is over my head... Eyal stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Please Invite/Hi, I am here :-) -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/511
14:46:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
Hi there :-) I almost feel treaded like a VIP, getting invitations etc. LOL. Thank you, Steve, for processing my request to be subscribed so quickly. I am very excited to be on that list and look forward to get to know the list members and to learn and listen. Hopefully I will be able to contribute to your discussions (I am not a frequent writer though, I always think I have nothing important to say). Wishing you all a very nice day, Love and respect Monika stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets? -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/512
14:47:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
<< As for the fact that Gene then continues to say that he has been developing a protocol for monitoring over an email connection, I stand totally confused. >> Using the ERV method ONLY..old pardnah..ERV only....CRV will not computer on computers.... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/513
14:47:13
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
Re: [stargate] Figure eights All of Lyn's comments are very interesting "from his perspective"..I would note that no one in our unit EVER looked into the face of God. I do not base that on my personal experience but a detailed review of sessions - each session had a complete report written on the events of the session. I am sure Lyn believes he looked into the face of God but that would of course make him the only living human being who ever has. In fact, like most of our viewers, viewing of religious personages or artifacts was wrought with personal emotional descriptions but as noted by Lyn, "it was a face like no other" and even today he cannot describe it...No one ever could. As to falling out of a chair or bed...there were actually several cases of viewers falling from chairs on different high emotion topics. Viewers often attempted to get up after a session and walked into walls or doors....but as a Viewer, Lyn would not know that...it was an item that was discussed with other Monitors and Skip Atwater only..Lyn as a Viewer actually believed he had totally access to everything that was going on in the sessions but in fact Viewers were routinely excluded from most of the information to a number of reasons, not the least of which..it was good protocol. Viewer's are in fact the central point of the session and in the CRV technology they are most certainly in charge. But in the ERV form of remote viewing, something, like a number of our viewers, Lyn was not able to work every efficiently, the Monitor is most definitely in charge...The viewer in the hynogogic state is just barely able to control their bowels let alone a session. Their state of mind is totally right brain and with the right brain in control, there is not control Without an effective monitor, you have a child with an unlimited credit card in the Mall.."ooohhh..lookee here...oooohh what is that....ooooohhh I wanna do that..." etc...Lyn is absolutely most positively correct in his comments as they relate to CRV (with the exception of viewers actually falling over their chairs on certain targets)....but as to his comments on ERV protocols, early on he was judged by Skip and myself as not really ready for that technique and why should we waste our time since he was doing quite well in ERV..For those of you who may not have known...I was the Monitor for all ERV sessions and Ed Dames was the Monitor for CRV Sessions although I was also called upon at least a half a dozen times a week to do Monitoring of CRV sessions...just to hone my skills in both... As to me ever ever ever using profanity in a session or "yelling" at a Viewer...Lyn may actually believe that happened since viewers did often come away with session comments on what happened only to find the tape recordings and sometimes the video proved them wrong. Lyn was never yelled at by me.. and in fact, according the the files, I had less than a dozen sessions with Lyn during my two year career with the unit....like I said, I was chief of the ERV Team and Lyn was not on my Team. I would only enter the CRV room with him on a very infrequent basis...But I can assure Lyn, if he has been harboring this trauma all these years, I never ever never yelled at a viewer, or used profanity of any sort in a session or I would have been soundly reprimanded by Skip or other bosses. No one should interpret this as a schism or disagreement between Lyn and myself since we have shared a world only a few people in the world have ever known and for this reason have bonded in a way no one can understand. Lyn has given me missions to work from his "other job" and we stay in contact (although I have missed him for about two months now)...We planted flowers and vegetables in a makeshift garden at the old unit and shared many a story when things were slow. Nope, no disagreement here...just pulling away some of the cobwebs that form over the years on both of our memories.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Who's in Charge -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/514
14:47:29
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Re: [stargate] Who's in Charge Thanx Liam...I do not know how you did it but you actually explained it better than I did in my answer to Lyn....are you on the wagon again...it is usually on those rare infrequent periods of time that you actually come up with clear concise thoughts...You are, as noted correct, it is a marriage of a individual who is quite capable of walking off a cliff for as much as a couple hours after a session and a well dressed and soft spoken debonair and sophisticated Monitor who has absolutely not idea what you folks are talking about during your sessions...in the end the marriage works and somehow a target gets exploited and reportod upon in a way that satisfied the brass...Nothing has changed...I am still handsome, well dressed, debonair and sophisticated and you still walk into walls and fall off the bed during sessions...but then you do that out of session also...oh well.... Slainte ... and pray for peace in Ireland... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jesus crucifixion day -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/515
14:47:37
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<< courtny brouwn in his book cosmic voyage he has some session with jesus he meet him and talk to him but what he writes in the book is over my head... >> There was lots over Courtney's head also...comets, little grey men and other astral wonders...sheeezzzz...please folks, review Courtney's work like you would compare Communism to to Capitalism..one works and the other does not.... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Please Invite/Hi, I am here :-) -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/516
14:47:48
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Re: [stargate] Please Invite/Hi, I am here :-) Yeaaaaa..Whistle..whoop...hurrah....Monika is here.... Hi Moni...glad to have you aboard... Gruesse aus Washington... Eugen... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/517
14:47:58
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> All of Lyn's comments are very interesting "from his perspective"..I would > note that no one in our unit EVER looked into the face of God. Funny thing about being a renegade meditator - especially where you don't know enough not to do something. I once decided to try looking into the face of God. I saw thousands of different faces looking back at me. had to figure that was as good as it gets -Deb stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jesus crucifixion day -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/518
14:48:24
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Dear friends, Thank you very much to everybody for your very personal contributions to that special topic. Curran2106@... wrote: > See I TOLD YOU!!!...nobody believes the old elephants...oh well..Ya'll have a > good time...sheeezzzz... > Gene...... > ---- Gene, I like the idea of "old elephants" : very peaceful vegetarian species, in a wise period of their life, with an excellent long term memory ;-) Liam you wrote: > In approximately 1986, Skip Atwater worked me on this site as a practice > site. We worked it single blind. Skip, the monitor, knew what the site > was. I worked blind. Gene acknowledges Skip as the greatest monitor in the > world. At the time I had been involved in remote viewing eight hours a day, > five days a week for approximately three years, Paul and I were doing the > majority of the viewing for the project. Not trying to brag, just trying to > validate we had a competent team working the site. We worked it CRV. Early > in S4 a Tangible of Cross came in. Intangibles of sacred, somber, and a > whole lot of very heavy, somber feeling. I focussed first on the soldiers > guarding the site (I am a soldier at heart and find I have a lot in common > with other soldiers, regardless of time or nationality) I also identified a > woman at the foot of the cross, his mother. I knew there was a body on the > cross, but I was not able to view it. . I could not pick up any of His > last words. I did pick up his concern for his mother. I was able to pick > up a lot of what the other people around were feeling, but as for that body > on the cross.....it was beyond me (I did have a distinct impression however; > that He was Irish). > > Now, I may be just another superstitious Irishman, but like Gene, I believe > that God (anybody's God) is unviewable. Jean Luc, I cannot imagine what > difference it makes if Christ was short, tall, fat, or thin (I already told > you he was Irish, so you know he was good looking). I have no problem with > anyone trying to view the crucifixion. I just do not believe you will have > a whole lot of success in viewing Christ. It has been my experience in > life, > that God is not in the business of satisfying my curiosity. Thank you very much, Liam, for your very interesting flash-back to the mili unit. It's the first time I got these infos. BTW I've met Skip in his lab and agree with you for what concerns him. Then à propos the cross, I like you to give us a kind of "reverse shot" overview (as they say in the cinema business). If you've got some more elements since that session, and have some time to kill some day I'd love to know more about the mother's and soldiers thoughts and feelings. Concerning the Irish origin, I have some close friends too on this very nice Island, so I have really no difficulty to understand the link :) Lyn Buchanan wrote : > As mentioned in a previous message, that was my session. The monitor was a > guy who now calls himself Liam. The comment was because I had done one bad > guy after another for weeks on end, and had the STRAY CAT (AOL) that this > session was just another bad guy. Hello Lyn, nice to hear from you on this list. You've told me this very personal story once. And it is with a real pleasure that I've re-read it, because as others I guess on this list, I've no difficulty to imagine by empathy a part of what you felt during this special experience. As explorer, I like your point of view concerning the belief system consequences (with respect to Liam's and Gene's too). I also know you do good paintings. But don't remember if you've ever tried to fix Jesus' face on a print. If yes, I 'd love to get a scanned photo of it. BTW (sometimes a good picture is really better than a long talk) did the military RVers realistic sketches after their sessions as a complement of some rved aspects of the target apart all the ideograms ? Joe often talks about his after session sketches... THX to Steve and John and Eyal too Thanks once again to all contributors Take care, Jean-Luc. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Amen! -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/519
14:48:36
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> All of Lyn's comments are very interesting "from his perspective"..I would > note that no one in our unit EVER looked into the face of God. Fascinating stuff... Gene, I do believe the man said "Jesus." Not God's face. Not unless they are both one and the same to you. I think the Arabs were intuitive enough to realize that such a problem would eventually condemn mankind, so they opted for letter symbol to represent God, and named all the prophets without the need for description. Yes, Lyn is right about the pics all over the world depicting Jesus... that is just an ethnocentric potrayal. I am sure you are right, though, Gene. Anyone who "sees" Jesus is bound to be knocked out of their chair, once they found how he *really* looked like.... Peace electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/520
14:48:46
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<< don't know enough not to do something. I once decided to try looking into the face of God. I saw thousands of different faces looking back at me. had to figure that was as good as it gets >> . . . . . . hehehehe... Figures. Just took a Monroer to nail the target :-) ~T~ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Who's in Charge -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/521
14:49:31
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>at times spend the whole session describing a park, with flowers, trees, and >birds, instead of walking out of the park, crossing the street, going into >the building, down the stairs into the room where the poor bastard (who is >the target of the session) is having electrodes attached to various parts of >his body. Hi all, I'm still getting up to speed on the specifics of ERV, but i'm curious to know, what the cuing method used was, when the viewer is wandering a park instead of the (local) vicinity of the target? stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Who's in Charge -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/522
14:49:42
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Hi Wildfire and all; Liam here. Viewers can >>at times spend the whole session describing a park, with flowers, trees, and >>birds, instead of walking out of the park, crossing the street, going into >>the building, down the stairs into the room where the poor bastard (who is >>the target of the session) is having electrodes attached to various parts of >>his body. > >Hi all, > >I'm still getting up to speed on the specifics of ERV, but i'm curious to know, what the cuing method used was, when the viewer is wandering a park instead of the (local) vicinity of the target? > The monitor has to think on his feet well actually while he is sitting on his but, but then, that is why we pay them the big bucks . It would depend on what the viewer has already identified at the site and also perhaps if the viewer is working ERV or CRV. Also it depends on the viewer. A good monitor knows his viewers characteristics. But something like this is usually effective. Excellent job of describing the park (viewers have very fragile egos and must be pampered) now describe the structure. or Wonderful job describing the park. What else is at site? The monitor MUST never say You C***** S**t SOB get out of the bloody park and into the D*** interrogation room. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Amen! -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/523
14:49:56
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<< Gene, I do believe the man said "Jesus." Not God's face. Not unless they are both one and the same to you. >> According to Christian doctrine, and the concept of the Holy Trinity...God, the father and the son and the Holy Ghost are one...my belief and I am stuck with it... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Who's in Charge -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/524
14:50:13
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<< I'm still getting up to speed on the specifics of ERV, but i'm curious to know, what the cuing method used was, when the viewer is wandering a park instead of the (local) vicinity of the target? >> Easy...tell the viewer they hvae given enough environmentals..now "go to the place I want you to go and tell me about it"...then the magic takes over... Gene.. stargate : Message: [stargate]
the BBS -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/525
14:50:21
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Hi everybody, Steve has provided us with two BBS for our use. One is to discuss remote viewing and psi. The other is a general, open discussion forum. Lately people have not been posting much to either board. Then what was posted gets rolled off the board, leaving it looking deserted and dead. I want to encourage each of us to think of the boards and possibly use them or I am afraid Steve will shut them down from humble neglect. Come one people -- what do you say? If they are of value, let's use them. If not, we will have to let them die. Surely there are listmembers out there who would like to discuss dreams and dream interpretation with me. Let's get something going. Let's pick a topic and get into it. Okay, enough of my cheerleading. I hope to see you on the board. Jane stargate : Message: [stargate]
a bbs topic -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/526
14:50:32
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Hi, It's me again. I thought of a topic for the BBS. I would like to hear about The Monroe Institute programs and the cool experiences of the participants. From what I hear, it is awesome. So what do you say Terri, Deb, Floyd, and Electrix? Care to get a discussion started? Jane ---- stargate : Message: [stargate]
a Monroe topic -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/527
14:50:40
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Hi, It's me again. I thought of a topic for the BBS. I would like to hear about The Monroe Institute programs and the cool experiences of the participants. From what I hear, it is awesome. So what do you say Terri, Deb, Floyd, and Electrix? Care to get a discussion started? Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
a bbs topic -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/528
14:50:53
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> about The Monroe Institute programs and the cool experiences of the > participants. From what I hear, it is awesome.******************************* Sorry folks, computer foul up caused me to send out the same message twice. Sorry to clutter up your mailbox. Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
a bbs topic -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/529
14:51:03
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I took the Gateway Program in March and would be happy to discuss the program. Angela bake27 wrote: > > Hi, > It's me again. I thought of a topic for the BBS. I would like to hear > about The Monroe Institute programs and the cool experiences of the stargate : Message: [stargate]
Monroe experience -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/530
14:51:16
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Hi everybody! I started a thread on the RV/Psi BBS about the Monroe Experience. The question for the board, not the list, is has the Monroe program(s) helped you in your RVing? Would you recommend it for those who want to RV? Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
a bbs topic -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/531
14:51:24
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Ok..the gauntlet is tossed...how tell the rest of us about the "Monroe Experience"...hahahaha Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
a bbs topic -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/532
14:51:43
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Hi: I have the Gateway series on cd...like to use it when I travel. Still working back and forth through Wave I to III. Just haven't spent much time in IV to VI for some reason, although I did go through the whole set in order when I first got it. I can't compare it to actually attending the Institute program, since I haven't been there. I may do that some day, but I think I'd rather do a complete rv course first. take care, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Transfer psychic healing discussion to [stargate] a bbs topic -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/533
14:51:58
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Hello Bevy and Gene, I am transfering the interesting discussion we had about psychic healing on the psi-list to the stargate psi/rv bbs. I think it might stimulate further interesting discussion on the topic. But first I would like your permission to repost your parts of the discussion. Regards, Bill Pendergrass ( not so pushy Ph.D.) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Transfer psychic healing discussion to [stargate] a bbs topic -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/534
14:52:10
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I am transfering the interesting discussion we had about psychic healing on the psi-list to the stargate psi/rv bbs. I think it might stimulate further interesting discussion on the topic. But first I would like your permission to repost your parts of the discussion. Regards, >> whatever... stargate : Message: [stargate]
Sightings On The radio RV on Wednesday -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/535
14:52:21
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Sightings On The Radio will have a guest named Don Bradley to talk about Remote Viewing during WW2. Does anyone know who Don Bradley is? Rv & WW2 ?? Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/536
14:52:30
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Edith: I've been away for a bit and just tuned into this discussion of figure eights. I've had them occur for me, but only in my sketches. When I find myself drawing them, I have almost a compulsion to trace the figure eight line over and over again so it ends up being quite black. I'm one who was trained in SRV and we were given the standardized ideograms. (I know, I know! Anathema to CRV'ers.) The "loop " still remains a "life form" for me. The figure eight -- much rarer in my sessions -- seems to be a *completion* of the loop. During some sessions when I've gotten a figure eight, I've perceived an unmistakable message: "This one is dead." Thinking my experience with the figure eight during a session was very particular to me, I was a bit startled to read your message. Rick Stordeur Vancouver Island stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
The Monroe Institute topic -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/537
14:52:48
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> I took the Gateway Program in March and would be happy to discuss the > program. > > Angela > Nice to hear from you again. So you did it finally :) Did you enjoy ? Have you met Joe McMoneagle ? Did he give a lecture on remote viewing ? What about the CHEC Units ? Did you appreciate them ? Did you meet Skip ? Do you like the Hemi-sync tapes cool down system ? BTW thank you very much for your post concerning RV on preprinted forms ;-). Warm regards, And.......see you in 12 Jean-Luc stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Transfer psychic healing discussion to [stargate] a bbs topic -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/538
14:53:00
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which discussion? Bevy stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/539
14:53:14
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Hello all, Has it occurred to anyone besides me that this whole topic of ideograms and symbolism .. and the Rhine ESP cards .. and the [possible?] existence of a basic vocabulary for reporting RV experiences .. might somehow relate to Jung's archetypes ? Or, to some other semantic/symbolic realm that might be surveyed in (say) Joseph Campbell's books ? Just wondering, possibly talking thru my hat, value $0.02. Fred Baube -- F.Baube(tm) * "It is the geek's modern task [..] to G'town U. MSFS '88 * make enterprises function in spite of fred@... * the blockheads who own and control them." +358 (40) 737 6934 * -- an article at www.wired.com #include stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sightings On The radio RV on Wednesday -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/540
14:53:28
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> Sightings On The Radio will have a guest named Don Bradley > to talk about Remote Viewing during WW2. Does anyone know who > Don Bradley is? Rv & WW2 ?? > > Rich > www.don-bradley.com he seems to be a Science Fiction New Age writer of sorts. I remember from his posts at the PSI TECH bb, months ago, he came in demanding an interview with Ed Dames to "set the record straight", and said he would go on Sightings and attack Ed Dames if he did not comply or answer his questions I personally thought it strange he felt compelled to be Ed's mouthpiece. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Sightings On The radio RV on Wednesday -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/541
14:53:51
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>>www.don-bradley.com he seems to be a Science Fiction New Age writer of sorts. I remember from his posts at the PSI TECH bb, months ago, he came in demanding an interview with Ed Dames to "set the record straight", and said he would go on Sightings and attack Ed Dames if he did not comply or answer his questions I personally thought it strange he felt compelled to be Ed's mouthpiece.<< I don't know who Don Bradley is but I just finished watching a History Channel program on prophesy and it seems there were mutual disinformation projects on the part of Germany and Britain involving Nostradamus's quatrains. It seems Goebels and the Brits were rewriting Nostradamus's predictions to further the war effort and some leafleting was done. I suppose in light of that revelation there may have been attempts at psychic espionage or prediction of outcomes in operations. The behind the scenes work on the part of the allies and Germany probably involved any attempt to gain an advantage in the intelligence or propaganda arenas. So, it doesn't seem all together unlikely that such efforts took place. Hitler's personal astrologer, a gentleman by the name of Kraft, ended up dying in Buchenwald after he pissed Hitler off. Regards, Ken Schlueter stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/542
14:54:01
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F.Baube(tm) wrote: > Has it occurred to anyone besides me that this whole topic > of ideograms and symbolism .. and > the [possible?] existence of a basic vocabulary for reporting > RV experiences .. might somehow relate to Jung's archetypes ? Yes it has. I have studied Jung's work extensively. Although, just as in dream interpretation, one must be aware that any symbol, though it may indeed have archetypal and cultural significance in its broader range of meaning, it primarily needs to be interpreted in terms of the personal language of meaning in order to find it's application within the individual's life. Only when one cannot fathom a personal meaning do you then head for the larger canvas of meaning. In dream work the personal meaning is easily evident on most occasions. In RV, just as in dreamwork, I would imagine we will profit most by sticking close to our home base of personal meaning. The figure eight symbol discussion was one I was interested in as I had a dream once in which my ex-husband's aunt was showing me a painting she had done with the figure in it. In the dream there were two paintings: one large and one small: but the same painting. As was my habit I took the image I was shown in the dream and painted it myself. You can see it here: http://www.active-stream.com/ASCmed/med9.html Also in the dream it was Christmas Eve and the family was gathered at my ex's mother's home. I was very close to this aunt... I had helped to care for her as she was elderly and lived alone. There were two people in the family that I missed as a result of the divorce and she was one of them. Two years later she died on Christmas Eve. Shelia stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/543
14:54:11
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Aloha Fred, The possibility of a basic vocabulary for reporting RV experiences is a concept of some merit. Although not a fan of Jung, I do understand the basic interpretive nature common to humans. There are like experiences among us and being intelligent we read the signs and attempt to reproduce our knowing by aligning our idea of the cause and effect. In the case of Ideograms, one viewer's water sign is another's Ideo for energy flow. The viewer wanting to determine exactly what the sub is telling them via the ideogram production should submit viable session work for third party evaluation of what constitutes their ideo library. Learning and attempting to execute some other persons idea of what an Ideogram is will not be very productive in the long run. Bad habits generated from practice of ideograms leads to familiar motions and preferred motions. The idea that the shape of the Ideogram in someway is related to the target may or may not resolve out for all viewers. In the viewers that shape does value out to be representative of target gestalt there is a good chance a library can be established for that viewer. This library may in-fact change with time and amount of targets worked. So many clues in this world, its good to see so many minds trying to sort it all out. Aloha ... Glenn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/544
14:54:26
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>Just wondering, possibly talking thru my hat, value $0.02. Actually, Ingo indicates that it was from his study of Warcollier. Good observation. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Monroe experience -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/545
14:54:40
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> I started a thread on the RV/Psi BBS about the Monroe Experience. The >question for the board, not the list, is has the Monroe program(s) helped >you in your RVing? Would you recommend it for those who want to RV? I went to Monroe's military version of the Gateway course (slightly different orientation, but basically the same course). It was a personal highlight for me. However, aside from using it to "chill down" before a session (which I rarely do because the database shows that I tend to get a lower score when I do), I don't think there is a way to use the hemisync tapes during a session. Some people have tried having them play in the background, but have reported that they didn't notice any difference in the work, and the database didn't show a significant difference. Does the Monroe course help you do remote viewing? Most people I have talked to who have been to it report that it doesn't. Would I recommend the Monroe course in spite of that? In a heartbeat. It is one of the truely "worth-it" courses you can get these days. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/546
14:55:02
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At 10:03 AM 7/25/98 EDT, Gene wrote: >All of Lyn's comments are very interesting "from his perspective"..I would >note that no one in our unit EVER looked into the face of God. The target wasn't God. It was the human being, Jesus. I saw a human face - not too Irish looking, I might add. :-} >.......I do not base >that on my personal experience but a detailed review of sessions - each >session had a complete report written on the events of the session. I think that you are right about God never being given as a target. There is no historical record which would serve as acceptable feedback. Therefore, it wouldn't have been given. However, I might add that the unit didn't begin and end with your time there. There were other times to which you didn't have any access to the records. I was there up until about a year from the end of the project. If you had access to those records, the CIA wants to talk to you about a long stay in prison. I can tell you that the target of "God" was NOT given in that time frame, either. Whether it was given after I left, I don't have a way to know. BTW: I had all sessions in my database which had been done previous to both your and my arrival at the unit. Many of those sessions had been shredded, and you never got to see the records for them. However, I never saw "God" as a target in any of the sessions done previous to our separate arrivals in the unit. >.....I am sure >Lyn believes he looked into the face of God but that would of course make him >the only living human being who ever has. Again, please read carefully. It was a Jewish man - a historical figure named "Jesus". While I do believe that he was God incarnate and part of the Holy Trinity, you should know how specific the subconscious mind can be when it comes to tasking. I was there to do a personality profile on a person. The frontloading was, "The target is a PERSON". I was tasked with Jesus, not God. I viewed Jesus, not God. >..... In fact, like most of our viewers, >viewing of religious personages or artifacts was wrought with personal >emotional descriptions but as noted by Lyn, "it was a face like no other" and >even today he cannot describe it...No one ever could. Who said I can't describe it? I can still get the image I saw very clearly. I know, I know... then I must have been off target, right? I must have been actually viewing Joey Schmedlap. He's a very nice guy, too. >.... As to falling out of a >chair or bed...there were actually several cases of viewers falling from >chairs on different high emotion topics. Viewers often attempted to get up >after a session and walked into walls or doors. Actually, there was one session where I did almost fall out of the chair because of the vibrations I felt (from the site, not in the room). I had to hang on for dear life. Falling out of a chair and being "thrown from a bed" are somewhat different to me, though. >......but as a Viewer, Lyn would not know that... Excuse me? >......it was an item that was discussed with other Monitors and Skip >Atwater only..Lyn as a Viewer actually believed he had totally access to >everything that was going on in the sessions but in fact Viewers were >routinely excluded from most of the information to a number of reasons, not >the least of which..it was good protocol. That is true. What you are forgetting (never really knew about) was that I was the Database Manager, and after all those meetings to which I, as Viewer, was not involved (rightfully so - it IS good protocol), I then had to type in all notes and comments into the database and other computer records. Many of the things I had access to, I shouldn't have had. That's a factor of working in a very small office where everyone wears many hats. As viewer, I wasn't privy to those things which I, as Database Manager, was required to see. Many times, I would put data entry off because in their infinite wisdom, one of the monitors would hand me a summary to type into the computer for a session on a target I was about to do. I was handed all the critiques on everyone's work (even my own), and was required to see even a lot of the things about the projects that I REALLY didn't want to know. I know that you like to think that the monitors were infinitely superior to the viewers, and that nobody knew as much as you, but that just wasn't so. >.....Viewer's are in fact the central >point of the session and in the CRV technology they are most certainly in >charge. > >But in the ERV form of remote viewing, something, like a number of >our viewers, Lyn was not able to work every efficiently, Beg pardon? You evidently didn't look at the records as well as you thought you did. >.......the Monitor is most >definitely in charge...The viewer in the hynogogic state is just barely able >to control their bowels let alone a session. Their state of mind is totally >right brain and with the right brain in control, there is not control Without >an effective monitor, you have a child with an unlimited credit card in the >Mall.."ooohhh..lookee here...oooohh what is that....ooooohhh I wanna do >that..." etc...Lyn is absolutely most positively correct in his comments as >they relate to CRV (with the exception of viewers actually falling over their >chairs on certain targets)....but as to his comments on ERV protocols, early >on he was judged by Skip and myself as not really ready for that technique and >why should we waste our time since he was doing quite well in ERV.. "...since he was doing quite well in ERV.." Neat freudian slip, there, Gene. Sorry, but I was doing ERV with Skip long before you got to the unit, and, as you say, doing quite well in it. It is true that I did better in CRV, and that I prefer it to ERV any day. However, there are some strengths which ERV has to complement CRV's weaknesses, and I have worked both quite extensively. I do remember talking to Skip and telling him that I didn't want to do ERV as long as you were the monitor. You are right about that incident being very traumatic to me. I think Skip just was just making a nicety for why you and I wouldn't work together. >.....For those of you who may not have known... >I was the Monitor for all ERV sessions and Ed >Dames was the Monitor for CRV Sessions It was truely a great time for the unit.... >....although I was also called upon at >least a half a dozen times a week to do Monitoring of CRV sessions...just to >hone my skills in both... >As to me ever ever ever using profanity in a session or "yelling" at a >Viewer...Lyn may actually believe that happened since viewers did often come >away with session comments on what happened only to find the tape recordings >and sometimes the video proved them wrong. Lyn was never yelled at by me.. >and in fact, according the the files, I had less than a dozen sessions with >Lyn during my two year career with the unit....like I said, I was chief of the >ERV Team and Lyn was not on my Team. I would only enter the CRV room with him >on a very infrequent basis...But I can assure Lyn, if he has been harboring >this trauma all these years, I never ever never yelled at a viewer, or used >profanity of any sort in a session or I would have been soundly reprimanded by >Skip or other bosses. It did happen at least once.. I was there. >No one should interpret this as a schism or disagreement between Lyn and >myself since we have shared a world only a few people in the world have ever >known and for this reason have bonded in a way no one can understand. Lyn has >given me missions to work from his "other job" and we stay in contact >(although I have missed him for about two months now)...We planted flowers and >vegetables in a makeshift garden at the old unit and shared many a story when >things were slow. Nope, no disagreement here...just pulling away some of the >cobwebs that form over the years on both of our memories.. This is true. I re-read the above comments and realize that it really does seem like it's turning into an all-out barroom bruhaha, but hey, Gene's Irish and I'm Scottish. I mean, it's not like I'm from Texas and he's from Oklahoma, or something. If Gene and I didn't have something to bicker about, the sun wouldn't rise in the morning. We would probably do our best bickering over a Guinness, but HE's too cheap to treat, so we haven't found out, yet. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Who's in Charge -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/547
14:56:13
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>IMO, no one is really in charge of the session (or a marriage). It is >disciplined anarchy (try explaining that to General Odom). This worked well >at Ft Meade, with the exception of a few individuals. For the most part; if >it has to do with the signal line, instinct, or gut feeling, the viewer will >call the shots. If it has to do with logic, structure, or support to the >session (setting up, getting coffee, etc) the monitor is responsible. RV >works best when the Viewer does not think, and the monitor does not feel. >There are two people in the room, but there is only one brain, and it does >not belong to the one person who is in contact with the site. Liam, Good comment. I agree completely, and couldn't have said it better. The session is a marriage. However, it is a marriage with a purpose, and that purpose is goal-oriented. When I say that the viewer's subconscious mind has to be in charge, I don't mean in Command. Oh, you officers are always confusing the two!!! :-) What I mean is that the viewer's subconscious mind is the most important "person" in the room >>>as far as the job of reaching the goal is concerned. The viewer's conscious mind, the monitor, and everyone else in the whole project have to all be there to see to its needs. It is like the queen bee - it is the center of the activity, because without it, the rest of the whole project would die off. It doesn't actually DO much except produce, but that product is the entire purpose of everyone being there. All the rest of the people are there as workerbees. When the session starts and the subconscious mind gets "on target", that's what it is all about, and everyone's job is to see that nothing gets in the way. Most of the time, the one who gets in the way is the Viewer, him/herself. The conscious mind wants to either/both help and/or hinder, and must be kept out of the way. Since the viewer is usually drooling by then, that responsibility falls to the monitor, who is in responsible for the control of the viewer's conscious mind activities, for telling the viewer to go to the next page instead of writing on the table, for adjusting lighting, for control of any onlookers, for just about everything else - even his/her own self control. Even the monitor has to stay out of the way of the viewer's subconscious. If the monitor ever gets the thought, "Ooooh!!! I know what the target is!!!", the monitor should leave the session. When the monitor comes into a session thinking that the outcome of the session, or the quality of information is up to his/her ability to control things, then the monitor is again doing the process a disservice. When the monitor comes into the session thinking that it's all up to his/her ability to serve, it makes all the difference in the world. To hear someone say that they do this or that to punish some smartass viewer sends shivers down my spine. I have more than once thrown a monitor out of my session for doing something like that. Perhaps saying that the viewer is "in charge" is the incorrect way to put it, but there is a fine point involved when I add "of the session." It is just as you said above: >"If it has to do with the signal line, instinct, or gut feeling, > >>>>>the viewer will call the shots.<<<<<<" but >"If it has to do with logic, structure, or support to the >session (setting up, getting coffee, etc), > >>>>the monitor is responsible.<<<<<" There is a difference between being in charge and being in command. There is also a difference between being in charge and being responsible for. I guess that what I am saying about the CRV session is the same as Patton said about rank: "The person who is subordinate should never forget it, and the person who is a superior should never have to remember it." Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/548
15:04:03
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>Can you tell us a little more abou this experiment? Some have suggested >that in the heat of the moment, you may have misremembered from >an event long in the past.. and that in the long run you'd only get 50% >accuracy.. but I seem to recall you mentioning the red/black experiment >was recent and an extended experiment at that. Can you shed any >more light on this..? I started off trying to do "dowsing" (CRV's form of dowsing, of course) to get the numbers for the lottery. I don't know who hasn't tried that, and who hasn't failed to one extent or another. There is only so far you can take that. Then, I tried developing an ideogram for each digit, 0-9 and working CRV sessions on it. Well, as you know, CRV's biggest embarrassment is numbers, and that sort of carries through when trying to sneak past the system by using ideograms, as well. It didn't work, either. Then, I thought, "You're doing what you tell others not to do - going for the big stuff first... start small and work your way up to it." So, I developed an ideogram for "red" and one for "black". I take coordinates for each card and then go through Stage I to the ideogram. It takes a lot of time and lot of work, but >>>>after much practice<<<< I got the score up to 68.3% dependability. That's a 6, not a 5. I have gotten very out of practice since moving to New Mexico, but hope to take it up again soon. BTW: the last 4 times I worked a deck (last November), the scores were: 79.4%, 77.2%, 71.7% and 69.9%. So, sorry if someone wanted some kind of magic... it's just old fashioned ideograms and LOTS AND LOTS of practice. It's slow, and growth and improvement take months and months of practice, but in the end, it works. As for "misremembered from an event long in the past", I don't remember anything. I know that the memory is prone to errors. I log sessions into the database when I do them and can call them up when needed. I don't have to remember. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
multiple ideograms -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/549
15:04:15
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>Thanks for letting me share. >Sandy Dear Sandy, Thanks for that. (Attempting to start a new thread here, before the old one starts a new world war.) I find it very interesting to see what people do to prepare for sessions. I used to try meditating, and found that it drove me into all kinds of AOLs throughout the session. When they came up with the idea of "spending time in sanctuary" before a session, I tried it, and it seemed to have the same effect. I think that I was allowing myself to think of the session before the session, and thereby ruining it for myself. Anyway, I finally realized that my old soapbox topic was probably what I needed, so I started keeping records of my sessions and what I did to prepare for them. I wanted to correlate the type of preparation with the scores. I knew that there were also a hundred other influences which would affect the scores, but thought that something should show up, if any correlation existed. Sure enough, I found that I get the best results when I line up a series of jobs and put the CRV session as one of them. In the office, I got to where I would start all kinds of activities before a session. Usually, you could tell when it was getting time for me to go over and work, because I would be up and running around the office doing things. Now, when I prepare for a session, I start out with all deliberation and mow the lawn - work on the car - do the session - clean up the office - fix things around the house - etc. - etc. - etc. I don't know why I get higher results that way, but I do. Maybe it is just that I get on a roll of accomplishing things, and that carries over into the session. At any rate, my wife loves it. Paul Smith likes to lie down and nap for about 30 minutes before a session. Another viewer from the unit likes to sip some coffee and write letters just prior to working the session. Another likes to do beadwork right before going over to do a session (guess who that would be). All these "rituals" actually do seem to help the accuracy of the session's results. Not all that exciting a topic, I admit, but I find it very interesting to hear how people prepare themselves to work. That is one part of the process that I don't think will ever be standardized. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets? -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/550
15:04:47
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> As for the fact that Gene then continues to say that he has been developing > a protocol for monitoring over an email connection, I stand totally confused. At 09:40 AM 7/25/98 EDT, Gene replied: >Using the ERV method ONLY..old pardnah..ERV only....CRV will not computer on >computers.... My mistake. I agree completely. CRV monitoring can't be done via computers. I was wondering, though, how you can do ERV monitoring through email. The monitoring process in ERV is much harder and more involved than CRV - which is a considerable task in itself. I have always said that the monitor has to do ten times the work the viewer has to do, and probably needs ten times more training before becoming a "professional". I might never admit this too loud, but I've always had more respect for the monitor's job than for the viewer's job. I just don't see how ERV can be done over email. I'm not asking for secrets you aren't ready to give, but if you've found a way to do this, I would be completely amazed. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Red and Black Cards -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/551
15:04:56
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Don't forget the Powerball lottery is over $250M this week...odds are only 1:80M...should not be a statistical problem for someone in the +80% range... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets? -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/552
15:05:04
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Have trained three students to about an 85% success rate...when it is all done..figure I need about five more students to draw good data..I will publish it on the net and everyone , including yourself, can call me a liar again... gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/553
15:05:15
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Conversation is headed into a hole...Lyn is the one who is the viewer here, I am only a monitor...stay with his comments folks...I am obviously wrong on all counts...those of you I have trained to do ERV...sorry, obviously I did not know what I was doing..forget everything I taught you and so sorry about the success rates you had...probably pure luck...check with Paul or Lyn for some real instructions in the real way to do RV... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
working the targets? -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/554
15:05:25
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Actually Liam / Sandy / Aquaserene / Skyemberr / Monika and more recently Dave have all been witness to my technique...some of it in support of body searches and commercial targets (we got paid for it)...and it seemed to work pretty good...like I said...we got paid... Gene... ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Monroe experience -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/555
15:05:35
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<< Does the Monroe course help you do remote viewing? Most people I have talked to who have been to it report that it doesn't. >>> Hello Lyn, My 2 cents.... Well, having completed several Monroe programs, then having Gene 'find' me and open my eyes to the awesomeness (freedom) of remote viewing, well I can say I will always be a Monroer first and an RVer second. I think you will find that a Monroe grad, especially, an Explore 27 grad. will make one hell of a knock your socks off viewer (if one ever comes to you) You see after spending thousands of dollars on hemi-sync tech and hundreds of hours via hemi-sync in exploration and meditation, we are 'opened'. Permanently. We have explored, confronted, searched, confronted, asked questions, questioned answers, (in my case argued, I always argue till I win) we reach out, we reach within, we reach past ... curiosity. We are great, we are movers and shakers, we are special, we have taken the time effort and money to become better as incarnated immortals, and to hopefully in some way be able to help mankind or add good-ness to the physical universe .... Most of all we have a better than average confront (knowns) on the physical and non physical universe. We are ready for a bigger game. Soon, I plan 'teach' or 'pass on' what I have learned about remote viewing, over the net, just the way Gene has taught me, with nothing altered nothing changed. It works, its magic. (by the way my teacher is perfect) Gene has his criteria for students, mine will be an X27 grad, and there are really just a very, very few of us, but giving the RV skills to them will answer so many questions so quickly, I can feel them out there grasping.. what now? RVing is the glittering, sparkling icing on the cake. We can have it all. By learning RVing, on top of my Monroe experiences I have found I can open the can of worms and NOW I can get the answers. Without Monroe... would I have the questions? A past target Gene had given me, well it had dead decaying-decayed bodies at the site, but because of my Monroe experience, Lifeline program, I found there were still entities at this site waiting to 'go on'. Their bodies had died, they didn't know what to do next. There is a certain eye contact entities make with me when they are stuck or ready to move on, when I sensed these entities, gads they had been stuck soooo long in grief and fear, I toss the Rving aside and put on my Monroe hat and helped these beings on their way. Many others have viewed this target in the past and apparently not sensed these beings in distress.? ? ? Without Monroe, I would have done nothing more than just sensed the chaotic panicked energies. Gene recently posted a dimensional target on this list, Cashel Ireland, I and one other sent him a session, I am sure others viewed it but did not send in... anyway I sensed and entity or being at one part of this site on an ancient ritual ground, the being made eye contact with me, very strong and definite, I went back to see/help him/it, this hooded clocked entity... heheheh this being turned out to be different, not just an energy ready to move on... this entity turned out to be me.... ROTFL. Well, I am still there, that magic will stay at that spot come hell or high water, (or religions) or I move on, with all my bits various pieces. Without Robert Monroe would I even have a clue? Did/do the Monroe programs help me as a viewer........................? BTW... Floyd, my precious angelic dear friend (perfect creation of a male body :-) (just had to add that) (Lifeline grad)(slept thru it) When you are ready and have the time in your busy life, I want to share with you also, this great magic I have learned, RVing. You will be one heck of a viewer.... now hush, you will see hahahah. End of my 2 cents........ ~Terri~ "Life's a bowl of cherries and most poor SOBs are starving" Auntie Mame. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/556
15:05:57
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Re: [stargate] ideograms etc. >Learning and attempting to execute some other persons idea of what an >Ideogram is will not be very productive in the long run. Bad habits >generated from practice of ideograms leads to familiar motions and >preferred motions. Indeed this is so. What I find a lot of beginning RV students attempting is to 'construct' an ideogram either based on their pre-session 'ESPicles' or on a set list of whichever ideograms they have been shown and/or have handy. This (needless to say) leads quickly to failure on the part of extracting any ideogram data (with the exception of the "visual" ideogram, of course) and subsequent degradation of session data from viewer morale loss. >The idea that the shape of the Ideogram in someway is related to the target >may or may not resolve out for all viewers. In the viewers that shape does >value out to be representative of target gestalt there is a good chance a >library can be established for that viewer. This library may in-fact change >with time and amount of targets worked. Which brings me to my point. This is very true, and a common misunderstanding on the part of new viewers attempting to employ protocol-based remote viewing as a structured and unyielding task-list, instead of the real science it is. So, I shall attempt to present the data I have gathered so-far on this ideogram issue in the hopes it will resolve some of the questions people have. Infact, I think I shall go sofar as to create the following: The 3 Commandments of Ideogramology 1) There is indeed such a beast as the standard ideogram. Utilizing the same mechanics as the '100th Monkey' paradigm, the collective unconscious will present (to those utilizing it) a standard ideogram and/or diagrammatic archetype. Such standard ideograms are subject to change and may or may not be the best overall representation for it's geophysical/paraphysical source. 2) There is indeed such a beast as the non-standard ideogram. Some viewers will never see a standard ideogram if their lives depended on it. Some will mix and match. Regardless, there can be constructed a library for that viewer of their own standard ideograms, which may range from one (Ingo Swann is notorious for this), to a complete and diverse library of specialized ideograms. 3) Regardless of the above, the ideogram is not the end of the session, it is merely another step in the process. It really should not (and as you would see, infact does not) impact the session whatsoever if the ideogram is not even attributable in any sense to the target being viewed. That was not the point in creating it (see the original CRV (coordinate) materials). I shall abbreviate the commandments here, for sake of brevity. :) To paraphrase, the ideogram is more than a set creature, less than a totally random beast, and just a step in the majority of structured RV processes available. It shouldn't be made out to be as complex as some people would have it be, nor as simple as others would in turn. It is, a completely open arena (and apparently malleable) in the RV sciences. (Now lets get those arguments churning) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/557
15:06:14
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> Conversation is headed into a hole...check with Paul or Lyn for some > real instructions in the real way to do RV... > Gene... hahaha! My God, you're an ornery bastard! Have you considered a lateral to the Corps? They tell me Perris Island is beautiful this time of year. Greg stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Powerball -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/558
15:06:24
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<< Don't forget the Powerball lottery is over $250M this week...odds are only 1:80M...should not be a statistical problem for someone in the +80% range... >> heh heh heh ... you are sooo cute, bit of a pisser but still ctue. We dont have the powerball here, but play my numbers for me 3-7-11-13-23-32....... ~T~ stargate : Message: [stargate]
Monroe Institute -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/559
15:06:33
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Hello All, I attended Monroe's Gateway Program in November of 1996. I have had OBEs since I was seventeen years old. (Now I'm 45.) And spontaneously began remote viewing about a year later. Given that background, I didn't know whether Monroe would be a worthwhile experience for me. I felt "drawn" there, however, and signed-up. It was great. I didn't learn anything new in terms of techniques, but I was able to talk with folks who had similar experiences, "legitimize" and get names for states with which I was already familiar, meet some super people with similar interests, and have a good retreat. When I was younger, I was in a Catholic seminary for eight years. During that time, we always made two retreats a year. I have missed those periods of reflection, sometimes desperately. Monroe was better than most retreats I attended. And that is a tremendous compliment to the Monroe program. I got to have one-on-one time with Joe McMoneagle. I also had plenty of time to discuss things with the facilitators. I unreservedly recommend Monroe Institute courses to everyone. Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/560
15:06:42
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Hello Greg...thanx for the understanding and insightful words..hahaha Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Monroe Institute -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/561
15:06:51
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<< I attended Monroe's Gateway Program in November of 1996. I have had OBEs since I was seventeen years old. (Now I'm 45.) And spontaneously began remote viewing about a year later. >> .... woooowwww Jerry, Hi! Quite a talented guy.... :-) Will you share some more experiences/stories with us? Did something trigger the OBEs or did you just realize you were having them? I had them up till about 7 years of age, then they became less and less, or.. :-) ... I recalled them less and less. As a child, I figured they were just a natural part of the sleeptime, which, come to think of it I guess thats just what they are :-) ~Terri~ stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/562
15:07:02
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> Hello Greg...thanx for the understanding and insightful words..hahaha > Gene.. Anytime, man! I just hope that the others on the list can grasp (as do I), that beneath that pugnacious, belligerent, callous exterior, beats a heart of pure gold. A fellow overlord of compassion, Greg stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/563
15:07:15
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Amidst the Lyn Gene hoohah of the mighty stags ;-) there were these gems. > It is true that I did >better in CRV, and that I prefer it to ERV any day. Why Lyn, can you explain please? >However, there are >some strengths which ERV has to complement CRV's weaknesses, and I have >worked both quite extensively. Would you like to expand on these strengths and weaknesses, please Lyn. OK, guys, time out's over, back to it. In Friendship and Light. MaryD stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/564
15:07:23
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<< OK, guys, time out's over, back to it. >> Sorry to disappoint you...my comments to Lyn from this point on will either not occur or will be directed to him in person...no sightseeing this time folks... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/565
15:07:33
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Interestingly enough, in one makeshift RV experimentation I did a long while ago...the viewer was given a target of Mars surface...Although, he didn't "hit" the target...the gestalt pointed at Army, War..and so forth... at first glance, I dumped the session. After a few days I thought about it...it turns out that Mars is the mythological planet of War. Although, surface area was the target... the viewer seemed to have tapped into Mars mythological gestalt. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
recent debate -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/566
15:07:40
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Too bad you are closing out the discussion with Lynn, G.K. It has been a very interesting and illuminating exchange. The kind of thing one likes to see on a list like this. No harm done. Sincerely, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
recent debate -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/567
15:07:51
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<< Too bad you are closing out the discussion with Lynn, G.K. It has been a very interesting and illuminating exchange. The kind of thing one likes to see on a list like this. No harm done. >> Call it the arrogance of the old unit but when we disagree we disagree to each other...we have gone through things most folks can only imagine...and frankly...its between Lyn and myself... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/568
15:08:01
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<< After a few days I thought about it...it turns out that Mars is the mythological planet of War. Although, surface area was the target... the viewer seemed to have tapped into Mars mythological gestalt. >> I would come up with another impression / analysis of the comments concerning Mars and the analogy of war...I will not comment on this again so do not come back to me...I will simply state what I witnessed once and that is it... Some of the viewers from the old unit and some of my students when given Mars as a target have come up with essentially the same results...the presence of a ruined fortress site on the face of Mars...destruction to all equipment and inhabitants...remains are still there and in some cases they seem to be still giving off energy or even working. The site destruction would most certainly give off a strong impression of war...much more so than the very abstract concept of Mars as the Greek (or was it Roman) God of war...which would be so obscure as to be absolutely dripping in AOL... thats it...no further comments...no further questions answered on this issue... gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/569
15:08:16
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> first glance, I dumped the session. After a few days I thought about > it...it turns out that Mars is the mythological planet of War. Although, > surface area was the target... the viewer seemed to have tapped into Mars > mythological gestalt. > > electrix Reminds me of a target given to me right after I got back from Paul's class. It was a penny. My session data centered around a small stage / audience / lights etc. My accomplice wondered if it was an attachment to Lincoln and his assasination. These stretches of the imagination are part of the problem with evaluation of sessions. I have been reviewing my practice sessions and swear that there are all kinds of sessions where the data could be swapped between targets and the same evaluation would be made. Maybe this is more common going only through S-3 practice. It seems that a session with very little data could apply to many targets and also, one with a lot of data could apply to several targets because of the variety of data. One odd circumstance: In my target pool are several photos that my mother-in-law took several years ago during a vacation in Europe. I have "pulled" all of these targets at least once over the last year and never have come close to describing them. On the other hand.....I have one target that I have pulled 3 times and each time considered it a hit. It does wonders for my batting average. :) Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/570
15:08:28
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> thats it...no further comments...no further questions answered on this > issue... > gene... My kind of story......I head for the pretzels but enjoy them immensely. I just finished re-reading Schnabel's book and was surprised at all the references in it to ET/UFO experiences attachen to RV and RVers. It didnt register the first time I read it. Anyway, Ed Dames is still updating the world on the "awakining" Martians and he and Courtney Brown long ago evidently went on to the next taskings.....Martians/present location......etc. :) Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Please Invite -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/571
15:08:42
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Hi all, I just thought I'd make a public spectacle of myself with my latest RV session and 3rd attempt to get into S-4. I was certain that I was at a beach. Must have been wishfull thinking from the weather. The target is more appropo to the recent weather. Take a peek for grins at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/3843/ Rich PS: Site is obviously under construction. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/572
15:08:58
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Thanks for the hypothetical feedback. Your comment is noted...I suppose the future will eventually disclose its event. electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Don Bradley on "Sightings" -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/573
15:09:12
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On the July 29th "Sightings" radio program, Don Bradley made assertions that German psychics who practiced Satanic rituals etc. ( Operation Paper clip ) were transferred to Menlo Park and SRI with the intent of initiating the remote viewing program. He also proffers allegations ( 2 hours and 27 minutes into the program ) that Remote Viewing tapes ( he states that he has purchased all of them ), have been adulterated with intentional, subliminal messages and changes in the Theta band to ostensibly subjugate and control those listeners. I am interested in comments and observations on both these allegations not only as a neophyte remote viewer, but also as a purchaser of several remote viewing and theta entrainment audio and video tapes. The charges that he makes are quite serious and his diatribe on the genesis of remote viewing reflect negatively on the the RV community. stargate : Message: [stargate]
mars.. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/574
15:09:23
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Yeah..know what you mean on stretching the information. I must add, though, I am very impartial to esoteric data since I like to be grounded more in reality. I would like to supplement my comment that the viewers, one a lucid dreamer and the other an authentic clairvoyant (she had to pass my stringent test), both got impression of war, equipment and soldiers on the surface. She was more descriptive than the other. Then again some people long ago thought the Moon was made of cheese... electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/575
15:09:33
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Gene Not a question. But your 'mars' rv 'tracks' with one done by our group in 77. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Don Bradley on "Sightings" -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/576
15:09:45
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I can't claim that I know if the story is true or not...Mr. Bradley would have to come up with some substantiating detail supporting information to discredit the entities involved. This posses the question though .... whether he is discrediting the PEOPLE in the community or the PRACTICE of Remote Viewing. If it is the latter, for sure it his dire to find out this man's background. Of course, there is the conspiracy theory of individuals connected to Intelligence going out and forming their own "satanic practices." That wouldn't be unlike MK-Ultra and the LSD program...so it pays to keep one's eye open at all times. I will tell you this though...I KNOW the Theta band is subject to both positive and negative influence. I recently wrote on Steve's BB and earlier stargate mailing list regarding this same topic. People who are messing around at that brainwave level need be cautious. It also applies to the benign Meditation practice. I am not the only one with this theory...dig up April 9 interview with Mr. Targ and Ms. Katra in Sightings...he mentions in that interview about Distant Stearing as pseudo-hypnosis through video and test that have been performed on its validity. The equation: Belief +Attention + Intention = Activates Physiology. Later in the program Jane Katra mentioned the Theta principle which supplements my findings on this same issue. You may check out a transcript interview (Not Sightings) at: http://www.talkcity.com/religions/transcripts/targkatra0312.html Read Ana Wise book on "The High Performance Mind" to learn more about biofeedback, and specifically what she has observed at the Theta range with her Mind Mirror biofeedback device. I hope this helps you to sort out the bullshit from the facts more rationality. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Don Bradley on "Sightings" -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/577
15:09:59
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<< The charges that he makes are quite serious and his diatribe on the genesis of remote viewing reflect negatively on the the RV community. >> His comments are not worth commenting upon....as for reflecting negatively on the RV community...Oh well....you have believers and non-believers...and rarely will one change to the other side...so why bother... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/578
15:10:18
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<< Gene Not a question. But your 'mars' rv 'tracks' with one done by our group in 77. Bevy J >> I can't tell you how elated and fulfilled that makes me feel... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
mars.. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/579
15:10:27
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Regarding the Mars thread, back in the spring I was tasked with a coordinate from a colleague on the internet. I did the session using CRV stages 1-3 and discovered the target to be a scene that resembled the Valley of Fire (AOL) in Nevada, high cliffs, dry, red, where water once cascaded down to a valley floor, consisting of mud pools and hot springs. The colleague informed me that the coordinate referred to "Mars in the past". Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith The Inner Vision Research Institute stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/580
15:10:41
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One problem with RVing the future that is the possibility of mutiple futures. Things like lotteries are going to be difficult or impossible if multiple future lines exist because truly ramdom events would become largely unpredictable even if you knew all the present information possible in some cosmic matrix. Truly random events would eventually be effected by such small changes in variables that it would involve quantum changes, and thus become even theoretically unpredictable. However, RVers should be able to predict events that would be likely in most or all time lines, which could be just as lucrative as lotteries. For instance I work with telomeres and aging, and collaborate with a company ( GERN) that has patents on an enzyme called telomerase, and has shown that cells transfected ( by viral transfer) with their recombinant telomerase enzyme will grow forever without aging (unlike normal cells, which stop growing and become "senescent" after 50 or so doublings). Therefore, a possibility exists that the company will develope drugs that prolong life based on Telomerase. If so, this small company would skyrocket in price and investors make a fortune. Now it may be that no drugs can ever be found that safely prolong lifespan using telomerase...or it may turn out that there are...but it is not random it IS either a possibility or it is not in all time lines. This type of target should be possible for an RVer to determine. Similarly, many other hi-tech startups are based on an idea that may or may not work, and the uncertainty forces down the stock price, as soon as the idea is proven the price will skyrocket, or if disproven go to 0. My question is whether anyone has done this kind of future targeting and if so what are the success ratios. Please lets start a separate string for the ethics of this, and keep this string for whether it's possible. Regards, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/581
15:10:51
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>... If so, this small company would >skyrocket in price and investors make a fortune. Now it may be that no >drugs can ever be found that safely prolong lifespan using >telomerase...or it may turn out that there are...but it is not random it >IS either a possibility or it is not in all time lines. This type of >target should be possible for an RVer to determine. There are other issues, though, such as: Corporate espionage, start-up funding, direction of research, content of research, even the credibility and knowledge of the workers in the company. IMHO, you just couldn't say with any degree of accuracy whether this company would make money or not. Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Online for AOL -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/582
15:11:05
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If anyone is on AOL, click here New Age Message Boards then go to MIND and Remote Viewing. >>Braden stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/583
15:11:15
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TRUE Jerry, But for the sake of argument let's assume that those eventualities are all reasonably well disposed of. In fact at Geron I know they have very good scientists and a competant administration. If the potential for such drugs exist they will probably find them. Also, even if the president steals the funds, or the plant gets hit by a meteorite, an investor would have a big advantage knowing the product was possible, and a large number of potential futures (if not all) would reflect this. And so would scientists doing research in that area, whose funding depends eventually on just that feasibility. Best Regards, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
ideograms etc. -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/584
15:11:29
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(snip) To paraphrase, the ideogram is more than a set creature, less than a totally random beast, and just a step in the majority of structured RV processes available. It shouldn't be made out to be as complex as some people would have it be, nor as simple as others would in turn. It is, a completely open arena (and apparently malleable) in the RV sciences. <<<< Excellent summary!!! Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Figure eights -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/585
15:11:43
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>>better in CRV, and that I prefer it to ERV any day. >Why Lyn, can you explain please? I think it is probably because I am too anal retentive. I really like the highly structured environment of CRV. Don't get me wrong... I enjoy ERV very much. The few times the I monitored ERV sessions, I realized how much more work it is on the monitor than CRV is. However, there is much less work for the viewer doing ERV than CRV. As far as the viewer is concerned, there is no apparent structure. In reality, there is a lot of structure, but the monitor is responsible for keeping the viewer in it. In fact, the monitor has an almost impossible job, while the viewer is just lying there having a good old time, visualizing away, getting perceptions and mumbling them out. For the viewer, ERV is sexier, more entertaining, more fun, and much easier than CRV ever could be. For the monitor... well, it takes a special person. (BTW: Gene is one of those special persons who are excellent at monitoring ERV. In many ways, I feel about him the same as I feel about Skip Atwater... that here is one of our natural national treasures. Like I said before, we bicker a lot, but when it comes to getting down and getting the work done, he's one of the best. He's one of only three people I would now trust to monitor me in an ERV session.) Lyn said: >>However, there are some strengths which ERV has to complement CRV's >>weaknesses, and I have worked both quite extensively. To which MaryD replied: >Would you like to expand on these strengths and weaknesses, please Lyn. Well, you already know that CRV's biggest embarrassment is numbers. Second to this is probably the acquisition of names, words, etc. >>>With a good ERV monitor<<<, these aren't nearly as much of a problem in ERV as in CRV. I don't remember whether it was Skip, Liam, or Gene (the three whom I ultimately came to trust as THE top-rate ERV monitors) who ran me on an ERV session once in which I was able to get the name and rank off a military commander's desktop nameplate / pen set. The name and rank were later confirmed as being correct. That would be a miserably hard thing to do in CRV, and would probably take several sessions. That is just one way CRV and ERV compliment each other. There are a lot of others. That's one of the reasons we used both methods. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Monroe experience -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/586
15:12:38
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At 11:54 AM 7/29/98 EDT, -Terri- wrote: >My 2 cents.... >Well, having completed several Monroe programs, then having Gene 'find' me >and open my eyes to the awesomeness (freedom) of remote viewing, well I can >say I will always be a Monroer first and an RVer second. I think you will find >that a Monroe grad, especially, an Explore 27 grad. will make one hell of a >knock your socks off viewer (if one ever comes to you) Actually, several have come to me, and I am a Monroe grad, myself. (Headed for the Heartline course, next month). Good catch!!! I was guilty of being way too provencial in my answer. The original question was whether or not the Monroe course helps in "remote viewing" (broad term). I wound up addressing the much narrower term of "Controlled Remote Viewing", in which it hasn't been useful much at all >>during the session<< or even in session preparation for "cool down". Your comment shows that there is a much broader answer. That broader answer would seem to be that the Monroe course can help very much, but I would add that you probably must stick to the same general style, such as ERV or OBE. Whether or not >>>having taken<<< the Monroe course sets a person up mentally, emotionally and spiritually for becoming a "better" "remote viewer" addresses a totally different question than the narrow one I was answering. It is also probably a moot question. How can you take someone who has not been through the course and say with any reliability that they would have been better had they taken it? Also, how can you take someone who HAS been through the course and say that they would not have been as good a remote viewer if they hadn't taken it? You can't really say either with great reliability, after the fact. For example, who can say with absolute certainty that you would not have been one hell of a knock your socks off viewer, even without taking the Monroe course? Maybe it is just your natural talent and would have come out either way. There is no way to ever know, now. The Monroe Institute has a "remote viewing" tape they put out, which is supposed to help you do their style of remote viewing. It is a style which has been gained from a lot of studying Joe McMoneagle in his work. That has got to be of pretty good value. So, let me change my answer to be much more specific about it, with the very specific caveat that it is only an answer to one part of the overall "remote viewing" picture: The Monroe >>>tapes<<< and >>>exercises<<< learned at the Monroe course >>>at the level this person would start at<<< have not proven to be an >>>in session<<< aid specifically to working a >>>CRV<<< session. Other people, like yourself, have more input to other forms of remote viewing, and how effective other-than-basic levels of study at the Monroe institute would be toward those forms of remote viewing. I jumped to the assumption that the person who asked the question had not gone to Monroe yet, and if told that the Monroe course were a boon to remote viewing, might attend the first course hoping to come out a confirmed remote viewer. Like I say, parochial thinking on my part. I'm very glad you came back with this comment, since it shows that there are other considerations, and other levels of Monroe training, and that there is more to this question than each person, from their own singular point of view can answer. Good input. Thanks. For me, the bottom line is still that I would recommend the Monroe courses to anyone. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations 37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285 Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/587
15:12:50
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>There are other issues, though, such as: >Corporate espionage, start-up funding, direction of research, content of >research, even the credibility and knowledge of the workers in the company. >IMHO, you just couldn't say with any degree of accuracy whether this >company would make money or not. > >Jerry I may be missing something, but I don't understand the problem. Surely if an RVer sets out to view the future, as it turns out, in his or her own timeline....then that's what they'll get. -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/588
15:12:58
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Hi Bill, I hear you. But I still think that RVing the future is beset with unforseen circumstances. Heck, even if Lee Iacocca was the President, an RV on the future would be inherently inaccurate because there are no controls. Without controls and confirmation you are just whistling in the wind. However, on a personal level, if I felt confident in such session results, I'd probably trust my instincts. But I would never indicate in a public forum that RVing the future is accurate. Just taint so. Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/589
15:13:06
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Hello Glyn, AS you can see from Jerry's response below, and previous posts by most of the other remote viewers (that I have seen) indicate that targeting the future is very difficult if not impossible. So the question is, can that difficulty be reduced by asking questions that are more or less predetermined. I.E. drugs for aging based on telomerase can be made or they can't be made. That possibility exists or doesn't exist in any future. Can RV determine such possibilities. Or is even this too much. Regards, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Don Bradley on "Sightings" -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/590
15:13:19
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I have no information on subversion' of Theta. Do know, however, that KOMAR, who holds many Guinness World Records for supporting tremendous weights on his body while on a bed of nails (really) has been tested in laboratories from every imaginable USA University to Red China's PSI labs; and has been found to utilize a Theta brainwave state while doing some of these things. KOMAR is Vernon Craig, has co-authored a book with Brad Steiger called Life Without Pain. (libraries can get it) Has the ability to instantly stop bleeding and in a few hours completely heal deep cuts and gashes (personally observed many times') in this Theta state. This is the reason he is of such interest to the scientific communities worldwide. I have known him since late 1960's. No matter what CSICOP says, he is the real thing. I will be doing the Sightings Show again on Aug 13 and perhaps will get into the brainwave theories, at least to some degree. Theta level has been exhibited in stages of deep meditation as well as in some states of emotion such as total rage. Bevy J stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/591
15:13:33
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Jerome Pople wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > I hear you. But I still think that RVing the future is beset with unforseen > circumstances. Heck, even if Lee Iacocca was the President, an RV on the > future would be inherently inaccurate because there are no controls. I don't get it. If a person can predict exact details of an event that won't happen for several years... then it happens exactly as foretold... then the person rv's the future... It's the concept that everything must have "controls" that is "inherently inaccurate".... like trying to put the ocean in a bottle. Trypper ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Don Bradley on "Sightings" -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/592
15:13:47
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> I have no information on subversion' of Theta. > > Do know, however, that KOMAR, who holds many Guinness World Records for >supporting tremendous weights on his body while on a bed of nails (really) has >been tested in laboratories from every imaginable USA University to Red >China's PSI labs; and has been found to utilize a Theta brainwave state while >doing some of these things. [snip] > Theta level has been exhibited in stages of deep meditation as well as in >some states of emotion such as total rage. Theta frequencies occur naturally in the brain under many different conditions. Anyone who does EEG work sees them *regularly* in *every* person studied. They are an indication that the associated area of the brain is idling rather than actively processing. Theta is very prevalent in brain damaged and stroke patients because areas of the cortex have been compromised. Theta occurs often in attention deficit disorder because the neurons that control attention are underdeveloped. There is no justification for giving Theta as such any excess meaning beyond that. The switch is simple turned off in a given cortical center. R. Michael O'Bannon, Ph.D. Corporate and Clinical Psychologist 42 Lenox Pointe Atlanta, GA 30324 stargate : Message: [stargate]
Fwd: FYI - Y2K situation -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/593
15:14:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
comments? Fri Jul 31, 1998 7:38 pm Show Message Option View Source Use Fixed Width Font Unwrap Lines USPsiSquad@... Send Email Send Email *
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600-----------* From: Doc Subject: Re: Joan - a calm voice in the wilderness > Doc, your approach is sensible and do-able for everyone. Thank you. I'm > still not sure folks like Gary North are making things sound worse than they > will be, or if he is painting a possible terrifying scenario. The *potential* scope and nature of Y2K impacts is virtually incomprehensible. The effects could range from delivery delays for food to groceries and restaurants, to blips in traffic systems and police communications systems. The essential point, though, is to reduce the guesswork and worry factors through dialogue, by calling your PC manufacturers, software vendors, banks, credit card companies and vendors, then communicating about the results of those dialogues openly and calmly. I can email a best-case/worst case scenario to any interested parties on request, with specific examples of industries and services/goods affected, though this is *strictly* a semi-educated wild guess. > it occurred to me that it might be a sensible idea if I were to get all my > stock certificates sent to me in case of crashes at my stockbroker. What > your reaction to this idea? The securities industry can be a peculiar domain for this subject. Prime players with automated systems (in the US) include depositories, custodians, transfer agents, paying agents, dividend reinvestment agents, etc. The minimalist approach suggests keeping hard copy records of all ownership, registration, custodianship and transactions in a very safe place in your home. While it might be tempting to hold the certificate(s) physically, it doesn't guarantee access to transactions if the underlying system is down. > Also, I'm thinking of purchasing an inhome safe - vaults too run on > computers. What do the rest of you think? At the risk of oversimplifying the matter, I simply wouldn't keep anything in a vault that I might need access to between 6/99 and 2/00. And I would pay very close attention to Y2K related news from now until 6/99 to develop an *incremental* approach to Y2K preparation. This approach reduces abrupt panic-shifts in market activity which directly affect all of us. > **** Re: Subject Y2K Gimme info, Data, Fact -- Ed Wood > ...some potentially serious issues developing not only in the former USSR, > but possibly in other third world countries. The international dynamics of Y2K are especially complicated guesswork. But if you think through the supply and information chains (for goods, services and data that affect you) one step at a time, you'll see how shipping, transportation and communication (private, corp, gov and even military) could be affected in isolated, periodic and intermittent ways for quite a while. Doc Hammel OPSEC http://opsec.net doc@... *
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600-----------* HUGS FROM OUR HOME TO YOURS! / \ () We are so lucky to have you for / \ () FRIENDS and FAMILY. / * * \|| Joan and Bill in St. Louis | ||| xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Don Bradley on "Sightings" -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/594
15:14:31
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R. Michael O'Bannon wrote: > At 07:57 PM 7/31/98 -0400, you wrote: > [snip] > > There is no justification for giving Theta as such any excess meaning > beyond that. The switch is simple turned off in a given cortical center. > > R. Michael O'Bannon, Ph.D. "Theta" has become the RV holy grail or buzz word. Thetas relevance in Rv is only at the handshake point between low alpha and high theta where the primary and sub consciousness aspects of mind exchange control. To the disciplined mind with a clear intent and query this window of opportunity affords access to clear target data without the pesky interference of either deductive reasoning or imagination. Depending on the stamina of the viewer or skill of his/her monitor how long they can maintain stability in that very small window and collect congruant target data. If the viewer falls asleep.. session is over. Anything one does not understand appears as magic. Just because this has been tested and labeled, does not mean it takes any less hard work to effectively employ the phenomena. Throwing the name around does not mean the person using the term understands or can utilize it's potential anymore than a tourist looking at the weights Mr. "I'll be back" Swartzinegger (sp) lifts regularly to maintain his physique. To some they are just very big paper weights, to most theta is just a natural untapped state of being that occurs as you fall asleep. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/595
15:14:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
<< I don't get it. If a person can predict exact details of an event that won't happen for several years... then it happens exactly as foretold... then the person rv's the future... >> OK...let me be a bit "parochial" as Lyn says....stick with me here, this gets a bit esoteric...The future has not happened (duh!!! hahaha) therefore it has not happened yet...(double duh!!!!!....). Since it has not happened but is still "viewable" by the Remote Viewer, then it has to be presumed that even after it is viewed IT IS NOT SET..it is not engraved in the book of time and cannot be changed...that only occurs in the past..you cannot change the past since it IS ENGRAVED...So, if a viewer takes the gamble to view the future all they are looking at is a future which is still forming...still existing in a broad series of fractals (Paul Smith taught me that term)...If you simply view it...and do not do anything which would impact upon the future which you viewed, then it is likely to occur that way (unless of course any number of a billion billion other things do not occur which may drive us to another fractal in the fabric of time. If, however, you become one of the billion billion little beating butterflies that choose to attempt to change the future, it most definitely will change...i.e.. trying to view the lottery numbers from the future then trying to play them....on the other hand, if you viewed yourself actually winning in the future, then if none of the other billion billion variables attempt to change the future, chances are that you will actually win...of course that presumes you know exactly when it is in the future that you are viewing and where...you may only think you are viewing the Power Ball from last week...but in reality you may be viewing the lottery in Rome, Italy in the year 2001 after Y2K and the collapse of economies world wide...Yep, you guessed it...you won 268M..but it was in Lira...and Lira from the year 2001 which are worth about 268K per dollar...(just like the current Turkish Lira...check today's newspaper..I am not lying...)...so instead of winning the makings of a Kings Ransom...you just won enough for a day at Disneyworld...The future is tricky business...don't take it seriously... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/596
15:14:59
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
At 11:17 PM 7/31/98 +0100, you wrote: Hi Glynn, No, actually without any way to assess the info, there is no certainty. Things may happen which affect the outcome which a viewer is not aware. Don't forget, time is not a continuum, but rather a parallel dimension. Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/597
15:15:12
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Hi Trypper, Let me explain again. In an RV situation, a target is assigned by a third party. The Viewer and the Monitor (usually) don't know the target. Accuracy is assessed by the third party. If the monitor knows the target, he/she may tip-off the viewer with subconscious cues. That's a no-no. Your own AOL of the future is a roadblock as well. Now, Clairvoyance is a different thing entirely. Seeing the future has been done and is currently being done by gifted individuals. But, it is not RV. "Psychic seeing" is not RV and RV is not "psychic seeing". RV is a protocol driven procedure used by individuals for viewing targets - it is not a way to view the future. Sometimes people do, and that's OK. But, it is inaccurate and uncontrolled. In other words, you could, and most likely will, get burned. Jerry stargate : Message: [stargate]
Theta -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/598
15:15:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
R. Michael O'Bannon wrote: > Theta frequencies occur naturally in the brain under many different > conditions. Anyone who does EEG work sees them *regularly* in *every* > > person studied. They are an indication that the associated area of > the > brain is idling rather than actively processing. Theta is very > prevalent > in brain damaged and stroke patients because areas of the cortex have > been > compromised. Theta occurs often in attention deficit disorder because > the > neurons that control attention are underdeveloped. Precisely, and let's not forget that's where subliminal advertisement messages are embedded while we are not paying ATTENTION. The state, as oppose to the frequency, is what I am directing this issue towards. It is an open state of receptivity and activity against the body, since that is hypothetically where the subliminal messages lies to affect the conscious decisions of its victim. It is also the "area" where repressed memories are likely to be activated if abruptly accessed, which could trigger physiological reaction. In a recent documentary called The Dream Files, it was noted that there are several stages a night a person goes though in accessing theta state (since it must seek Delta to be in REM state). The first stage is usually of the theta encounter the person goes through disturbing experiences during sleep, only to mellow out during the night (in fact, every 90 minutes or so we are cycling through the state levels through out the day). Furthermore, if the 1st stage "loops,"...meaning, if we do not consummate the 1st stage requirement, it triggers nightmares or we wake up at the "wrong side of the bed." Certainly, theta is a natural state. It is natural state because the conscious mind seeks to avoid the area at all cost as a protective mechanism. However, if we willfully seek to enter or actively disturb this area, we are increasing the chance of contacting unwanted experience or being influenced. Note...I am saying that if we WILLFULLY seek to engage that area we MAY trigger unwanted reactions. Furthermore, at any time of the day our theta receptivity IS open for subliminal messages...any study in this area will tell you that having no attention on the advertisement will get through into that open receptivity to affect our taste of that product or the condition. > There is no justification for giving Theta as such any excess meaning > beyond that. The switch is simple turned off in a given cortical > center. > Yes, as long as we are ATTENTIVE. Although, on the later statement I have seen no studies that correlates the physiological anatomy of the brain correlating or being the CAUSE of brain wave frequency. So, whether there is "justification." is a question of how attentive one wishes to be. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/599
15:15:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
> view it...and do not do anything which would impact upon the future which you > viewed, then it is likely to occur that way (unless of course any number of a > billion billion other things do not occur which may drive us to another > fractal in the fabric of time. If, however, you become one of the billion > billion little beating butterflies that choose to attempt to change the > future, it most definitely will change... Not necessarily... you could interact with the future potential and it could still turn out the way you "saw" it. You could alter the course of events yourself... change the fractal just a little bit. >of course that presumes you know exactly when it is in the > future that you are viewing and where...you may only think you are >viewing the> Power Ball from last week...but in reality you may be >viewing the lottery in Rome, Italy in the year 2001 after Y2K and the >collapse of economies world That doesn't make sense... if you are there... if you are viewing it.. you should be able to figure out when and where you are. There should be some clues in the environment... don't you think? ... oh.. I get it.. the coordinates thing.. you guys only see the specific thing you coordinate on.. is that it? You don't 'see' the whole thing? >..The future is tricky business...don't take it seriously... > Gene... > ---- Hey!! you're right.. don't take anything seriously.. :-) Trypper ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/600
15:16:06
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
Jerome Pople wrote: > > At 11:17 PM 7/31/98 +0100, you wrote: > Hi Glynn, > > No, actually without any way to assess the info, there is no certainty. > Things may happen which affect the outcome which a viewer is not aware. That doesn't make sense to me either... either the info validates itself or it doesn't... if you rv the future and it happens.. then you actually saw it and it is validated.. it happened.. If it doesn't happen, then you didn't really see anything... you just imagined it.... or better yet.. you changed it.

// END ARCHIVE BLOCK #6.

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Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block # 6. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 501. Last Message Number: 600
First Message Date: July 25, 1998. Last Message Date: July 31, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000501-000600.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)

Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #7. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 601. Last Message Number: 700
First Message Date: July 31, 1998. Last Message Date: August 2, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000601-000700.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



BEGIN ARCHIVE BLOCK #7.



stargate : Message: Re: [stargate] 
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/601)
22:23:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> Your own AOL of the future is a roadblock as well. > > Now, Clairvoyance is a different thing entirely. Seeing the future has been > done and is currently being done by gifted individuals. But, it is not RV. > > "Psychic seeing" is not RV and RV is not "psychic seeing". RV is a protocol > driven procedure used by individuals for viewing targets - it is not a way > to view the future. Sometimes people do, and that's OK. But, it is > inaccurate and uncontrolled. In other words, you could, and most likely > will, get burned. > > Jerry :-) It's only inaccurate and uncontrolled if you can't do it... don't you think? What good is rv if it only tells you what someone else in your organization already knows? It doesn't seen as if that gives one much of an advantage... ..... not that I would know of course... Trypper stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/602)
22:24:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Hi Glynn, Future info doesn't validate itself until the event actually occurs - that's the point. So making decisions based on unvalidated info is unrealistic and irresponsible. Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/603)
22:24:12
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
What strikes me odd in all of this future business is that, if we are accessing the matrix, the Akashic, Collective Unconscious or whatever...it is suppose to be a timeless "environment." Meaning, it shouldn't be distorted by our human persception of past, present or future.... so why are we not able to see the "static" implication and content involving the target as it IS in the future?. Seems to me that when we miss, we missed the target... that's all. The future continues being what it is. Remote Viewing doesn't validate the future...seems to me that we just AOL when we do not get the exact results. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/604)
22:24:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>:-) It's only inaccurate and uncontrolled if you can't do it... don't >you think? No, I don't think. You will find out in the world of PSI that you may not accurately assess info in a controlled manner, even though you think you are. Sound convoluted and confusing? That's because it is. It's not a rational (in our sense of the word) experience "out there". >What good is rv if it only tells you what someone else in your >organization already knows? It doesn't seen as if that gives one much >of an advantage... > ..... not that I would know of course... The other person doesn't know details, you supply that. And the info gets compared with other viewers' data. That's how results get compiled in a global sense. Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/605)
22:24:29
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>What strikes me odd in all of this future business is that, if we are accessing the matrix, the Akashic, Collective Unconscious or whatever...it is suppose to be a timeless "environment." Meaning, it shouldn't be distorted by our human persception of past, present or future.... >> Once again, time is not a continuum, it is a parallel phenomena. Nothing is cast in stone. It's a dynamic, changing environment that's constantly evolving. You can't put your finger on it - although sometimes you can get lucky. There reallly is no past, present or future - the only IS. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/606)
22:24:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Jerome, I don't want to come off like a dumb blonde, but.... How can the future IS (static) but yet be dynamic? I think we have a relativity issue here. Dynamic to whom? electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/607)
22:24:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:52:59 -0700, electrix wrote: >the matrix, the Akashic, Collective Unconscious or whatever...it is >suppose to be a timeless "environment." Meaning, it shouldn't be >distorted by our human persception of past, present or future.... It may be timeless, but wouldn't it still be affected by the perceptions that make up its whole? Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/608)
22:25:00
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> "Psychic seeing" is not RV and RV is not "psychic seeing". RV is a protocol > driven procedure used by individuals for viewing targets - it is not a way > to view the future. Sometimes people do, and that's OK. But, it is > inaccurate and uncontrolled. In other words, you could, and most likely > will, get burned. > Are you saying that the clairvoyant gets his info from some other source than the RVer? What source did Joe MacMoneagle get his future events from? As far as Akashic records....wasn't that where Edgar Cayce was supposed to be getting his info? His prediction record is ...what.....zero? Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/609)
22:25:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Before you guys send me to a mental institution...let us establish a few things... 1. There is no one that knows for certain the construct of the future. We are all hypothesizing. 2. If we are going to use the Collective Unconscious principle...then we will have to assign this place where the ALL is imprinted. 3. If we, with our human senses which is occasionally unreliable, *perceive* past, present and future. The fact however is that we are observing motion against a state that is static (in a state of Relativity) i.e. a Collective Unconscious and its content that simply EXIST whether we experience it or not, and its not *moving* ...converting itself from past, present to future. 4. The ridiculous idea that we are using convoluted protocols with RV to *change* the future sounds to me like we are playing God. The cause/effect is totally backwards. 5. The Collective Unconscious does not change or affect our perception. We do! stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/610)
22:25:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Rich Krankoski wrote: > As far as Akashic records....wasn't that where Edgar Cayce was supposed > to be getting > his info? His prediction record is ...what.....zero? I am afraid you are not well read on Edgar Cayce achievements..otherwise you wouldn't be saying this. Let's just say he had hits and misses. But had enough hits to be consulted by the Presidents at the time and be of great value to those who sought to resolve all kinds of personal problems which SOLVE their dilemma...regardless of whether he "went" into the past or future. Of course, there are some that "interpreted" his hits and misses...but heck, don't we do that when we analyze an RV session? The goods are only as good as the Analysis. electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/611)
22:25:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Before I am attacked on item # 4 on my recent post to Vikki on "RVing the future" and since I sense someone about to question me... 4. ...The cause/effect is totally backwards. What I mean is...if we observe the future accurately, it changes our present consideration or/and activity. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/612)
22:25:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> I am afraid you are not well read on Edgar Cayce achievements..otherwise you > wouldn't be saying this. Let's just say he had hits and misses. But had enough > hits to be consulted by the Presidents at the time and be of great value to those > who sought to resolve all kinds of personal problems which SOLVE their > dilemma...regardless of whether he "went" into the past or future. Of course, > there are some that "interpreted" his hits and misses...but heck, don't we do > that when we analyze an RV session? The goods are only as good as the Analysis. > > electrix Yes, I made a rather extreme statement. He did have some hits as I recall, I believe mostly in dream interpretations and some personal readings. It was the headline type predictions that I recall missing or not yet happening.....atlantis rising in 68 or 69 ....the various catastrophes.....gee kinda reminds me of someone else right now. I read many of the books put out by ARE and found his stories about Atlantis as fascinating as the current RV stories about Mars....same for his re-incarnation stuff. Have you ever read his interpretations on the Book Of Revelations? Maybe we should do this offline. Rich stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/613)
22:25:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>What I mean is...if we observe the future accurately, it changes our >present consideration or/and activity. I think I understood what you had intended, Electrix...what confuses me..well alot of things confuse me, but that's neither here nor there ;-) How do you know that the Collective Unconscious is correct? If it is the collective memories of all, then how is it not affected by each individual perception that makes up it's whole? That you aren't getting an individuals perception of what occurred/or will occur. I feel that perhaps I'm missing something vital here, but am having trouble grasping it. Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/614)
22:26:07
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
I don't KNOW that the Collective Unconscious is correct...I can only go by observation of the effect. If we accurately tap into this future gestalt (I don't want to use "memory" since this entail a time track) we can observe it manifest. That's *proof* that we experienced the future by viewing. So.... I know that much. I also know that if we observe the future it changes the present consideration or activity of the person that is viewing. Of course, that doesn't help none since the future will happen regardless (If you haven't seen the movie 12 Monkeys...I suggest you rent the video). The only way that it affects the next person is if you convince him/her of your considerations. But you see, that was already embedded in the future otherwise, the future you viewed wouldn't have been accurate. What happens if we view an inaccurate future...we can't tell since there is no empirical observation to consider as proof. We can only guess. All we know and can prove is that it DIDN'T happen. So that's that, a miss. I believe your premise is that whatever is in the Collective Unconscious automatically affects every person's subconscious. Maybe what you are trying to resolve is that if affects everyone's *experience* if the target viewed is of global consequence like the "spiritual enlightenment of the world." (I purposely used this example since I am tired of hearing about negative feedbacks and predictions). That would mean that this unknown ether affects your and my mind. But that's stretching it since we have to construct a very sophisticated system to explain how that happens. It is much simpler to accept the empirical effect (Occam's Razor) and go from there. I hope this was clear...all in all, just don't delude yourself that you have the power to change the future..that province only rest in God's hands. I am sorry, but none of these military studs can tell me otherwise. electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
To Rick - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/615)
22:26:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Rich Krankoski wrote: > I read many of the books put out by ARE and found his stories about > Atlantis as fascinating > as the current RV stories about Mars....same for his re-incarnation > stuff. I have read quite a few myself...but mostly to look for applications. So, some books I read through skimming certain subjects. Some i got into pretty heavily...like the Antlantean society structure and the origin of mankind. > Have you ever read his interpretations on the Book Of Revelations? No. Actually, I don't resonate too well with that story...that's stuff turns me off. I just stick with the uplifting Books passages...like the Prodigal Son, The Gospel according to St. Mathews... So no, that wouldn't be something I would read. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
mars.. - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/616)
22:26:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Re: [stargate] mars.. May I ask...what period (era) of Mars was it? i.e how many years back? electrix Angela Thompson Smith wrote: > Regarding the Mars thread, back in the spring I was tasked with a > coordinate from a colleague on the internet. I did the session using CRV > stages 1-3 and discovered the target to be a scene that resembled the > Valley of Fire (AOL) in Nevada, high cliffs, dry, red, where water once > cascaded down to a valley floor, consisting of mud pools and hot springs. > The colleague informed me that the coordinate referred to "Mars in the > past". > > Kind regards > Angela Thompson Smith stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/617)
22:26:49
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> Once again, time is not a continuum, it is a parallel phenomena. Nothing is > cast in stone. It's a dynamic, changing environment that's constantly > evolving. You can't put your finger on it - although sometimes you can get > lucky. There reallly is no past, present or future - the only IS. > ---- Lets try a different perspective. The un-formed aspect of the future has to do with our free will. RVing the future, has a distinct lag in the presentation of data, this lag or delay is produced by the Sub calculating the most likely probability if the patterns of current behavior continue unchanged. If for what ever reason, including someone viewing an event and not liking want they see, they make new choices and change significant behavior (an option of free will), and/or inspire others to make new choices, new probabilities form. Viewing targets out more than 30 to 90 days require reassessment, for shifts in variables which affect the outcome. Also if you want to know if say, Y2K or the plant pathogen are going to wreck havoc on the earth, you do not view the canister, or a computer, you view non related but effected targets with a long history of consistency, to see if there is any change or disruption. For example, the boston Market has sold produce for 200 years, it has a very strong and consistent signature of repetitive activity. If you targeted it on a date.. say January 15, 2000, then you data would tell you what was happening at the market. Doing a series of that kind of target will give you a much clearer picture of the impact if any of the event you are seeking to understand. Viewing the future is not a one shot deal, it is a project which requires carefully thought out development and analysis. I amazes me how people like to turn everything into a magic pill. Worth while results are achieved through discipline, consistency and careful analysis. So those of you who want to take a week end class, or 10 day class, or one year class and think you will break the lotto, and retire, and if you can't it proves that RV does not work....LOL good luck. If it was that easy the career pros would have done it already. My experience is that people that think that way do not go the distance to where the valuable data is found, once they find out that this is work.....LOL they are off chasing something else shiney they think might be fun. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/618)
22:27:13
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>future. Can RV determine such possibilities. Or is even this too much. > >Regards, > > >Bill Hi Bill, J W Dunne thought that so-called precognitive dreams contain information from your own future memory of an event that had actually happened. (Getting the mind round *that* is bad enough:-) ) This however can contain it's own problems, shown as follows.... In one example, he dreamed that there was to be a volcanic explosion on an island, and *4,000* people would be killed (he was positive about this number). He dreamed he was actually on the island, it was quite dramatic, with him chasing around trying to warn people that 4,000 would die if they didn't evacuate. Some time later he read a newspaper article which told of a volcano disaster in Martinique, which reported the probable loss of *40,000* lives, however what is significant is that when reading the newspaper article at the time, he had misread the figure as 4,000, and it was 15 yrs later, when he was copying out the paragraph, when he actually realised that the figure reported by the paper was 40,000. To cut a long story short, he came to the conclusion that his dream was of the information in the newspaper....which he had misread to boot! Basically he hadn't seen the actual event, only his memory of reading the newspaper article. If rv/precognitive dreams work the same way, then yes we are liable to pick up all sorts of distortions, depending on when/how we sourced the information. Presumably if Dunne had dreamed not of the first newspaper article, but of the revised information 15 yrs later, then he would have got the correct figure. I personally think that RVing a target *is* RVing the future......possibly you access your memory of actually seeing the target when it is disclosed, (if it is a picture) with all the distortions that run through your conscious mind at that time. Viewing a future of which you personally cannot ever have experience of however (ie. so far in the future you would be dead before it happened, or, say, of a distant planet where you will never travel and see for yourself, or of some secret establishment that you'll never visit but are only given feedback by others at a later date), is even more vulnerable to distortion; not only your own, but via others re their feedback/opinions; which you may well have viewed. If, however, you are lucky enough, or can direct yourself somehow to viewing the *actual* outcome, from a reliable source, even if way into the future, then, yes I think the future could be viewed.....but therein lies the rub! Sorry about this long post, but I think it's worth a thought. -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/619)
22:27:29
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> What I mean is...if we observe the future accurately, it changes our > present consideration or/and activity. > > electrix Life is a learning experience, unless we decide we already know it all. When we view the future, it is a bit like a conversation I had with my son, he was patterning some behaviors I found disturbing, because I knew where they would take him, but he did not. finally I realized how to get him to see. I asked him... "When you get to be that persons age, is that what you want your life to be like?" His instant answer was..." oh god NO!!" then , I told him, do not do the things he does, because you already have the proof of where that leads. When we RV the future what ever we see becomes real to us, no more wishful thinking or denial, we can consciously choose to make changes. Changes effect the future (free will). RV can be a catalyst to get us to take responsibility.. or action.. rather than continue on in our patterns, but it is not magic, just a source of data. Real or imagined if we do not like what we see, it can inspire us to take action, or we can just sit around and feel helpless complaining. It is just a tool, we still have to do the work :) Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/620)
22:27:43
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Jerome Pople wrote: > Future info doesn't validate itself until the event actually occurs - > that's the point. So making decisions based on unvalidated info is > unrealistic and irresponsible. Not if there is a track record... banks make decisions based on historical financial patterns all the time. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/621)
22:27:52
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> No, I don't think. You will find out in the world of PSI that you may not > accurately assess info in a controlled manner, even though you think you are. > Sound convoluted and confusing? That's because it is. It's not a rational > (in our sense of the word) experience "out there". Why not? Why can't you accurately assess info in a controlled manner? > The other person doesn't know details, you supply that. And the info gets > compared with other viewers' data. That's how results get compiled in a > global sense. Seems limiting... Trypper ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/622)
22:28:03
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electrix wrote: > > I also know that if we observe the future it changes the present > consideration or activity of the person that is viewing. Of course, >that doesn't > help none since the future will happen regardless ( That's not necessarily true... true for you personally perhaps... but not for everyone. >The only way that it affects the > next person is if you convince him/her of your considerations. That's definitely not true. Trypper stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/623)
22:28:14
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> Before I am attacked on item # 4 on my recent post to Vikki on "RVing > the future" and since I sense someone about to question me... > > 4. ...The cause/effect is totally backwards. > > What I mean is...if we observe the future accurately, it changes our > present consideration or/and activity. > Not always... if you act on it perhaps it does.. if you merely sit back and observe.. it doesn't. If you view an event that has nothing to do with you personally.. your present consideration and/or activity has nothing to do with the event. Trypper stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/624)
22:28:24
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>I hope this was clear...all in all, just don't delude yourself that you >have the power to change the future..that province only rest in God's >hands. I am sorry, but none of these military studs can tell me >otherwise. Perhaps you are mistaken about this. Trypper stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/625)
22:28:33
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>> There should be some clues in the environment... don't you think? ... oh.. I get it.. the coordinates thing.. you guys only see the specific thing you coordinate on.. is that it? You don't 'see' the whole thing? >> Nope, you missed the point...regardless of what some of my learned colleques will say...numbers and alphabet type things just do not translate well in the altered state...this is why a viewer "communicating" with someone in Russia has not problem with language..they are communicating on a different plane...this is why (IMHO), you cannot do lotteries - because numbers get all boggled around in the ether...THEREFORE...even if you had a roadmap, there is no way for you to really know exactly where you are if you are simply viewing a lottery...you could target Virginia Lottery...OK .. that might bring you a little closer...but the Virginiia lotttery is twice a week...if you said OK..Wednesdays lottery...hmmmm...Wednesday is a spelled name...alphabet...that sort of thing...it is also a specific time....and since time and space no not really exist in the altered state...welll...you get the picture...confused...so am I and so are all of us who do RV...just trust in the magic...forget trying to make a million at it..and just have fun... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/626)
22:28:42
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>> the Akashic, Collective Unconscious or whatever...it is suppose to be a timeless "environment." Meaning, it shouldn't be distorted by our human persception of past, present or future. >> Nope...no cupie doll on this one....the future is not set...and can be changed...the old military unit once viewed an event in which the President was involved...we each (separately and apart from each other - in totally different rooms etc...) each saw the President being made a target of an assassination attempt....a small passenger plane was flown into his podium and exploded on contact...we eachsawa the same people, same events leading up to the attempt,...etc...we gave it to the Secret Service...they extended the no fly zone by an additional five miles...nothing happened...did we miss it?...We saw it...they, the Secret Service, changed the fabric of the future based on our data and moved the no fly zone...They believed in us actually...used us on occasion...So you see the future is part of the continuum but it can be changed...r stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/627)
22:28:52
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> Nope, you missed the point...regardless of what some of my learned colleques > will say...numbers and alphabet type things just do not translate well in the > altered state...this is why a viewer "communicating" with someone in Russia > has not problem with language..they are communicating on a different > plane... Yes... I agree.. but regarding the issue of knowing where and when you are ... can't you just observe the ages of your children... the presence of grandchildren.. etc? I mean.. pick up a newspaper, right? >this is why (IMHO), you cannot do lotteries - because numbers get all > boggled around in the ether...THEREFORE...even if you had a roadmap, there is > no way for you to really know exactly where you are if you are simply viewing > a lottery... I'm not into lotteries.. I'm in the no/limited personal gain camp. ... but I still manage to have fun... :-) Trypper ---- stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/628)
22:29:01
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>Jerome, >How can the future IS (static) but yet be dynamic? > >I think we have a relativity issue here. Dynamic to whom? > >electrix The future IS does not appear as a static phenomena. Time is not a line. Okay, imagine a line stretching in front of and behind you. This is most people's concept of time. It goes back into the past and forward into the future. Einstein postulated that time is not a single line, but many lines parallel to each other. So, instead of going forward to see the future, you may in fact be making a lateral motion. So your notion of relativity here is correct. Future events are not fixed. They are dynamic and may change due to unforseen circumstances. The future is not a static thing. It is constantly changing due to actions we and others perform today. Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/629)
22:29:09
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>Not if there is a track record... banks make decisions based on >historical financial patterns all the time. Yes, they do - and they lose a lot of money, too. If this were the pinnacle of market analysis, Kondratief and Elliott waves would explain all market behavior. Unhappily, they don't. Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/630)
22:29:18
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>Why not? Why can't you accurately assess info in a controlled manner? >Trypper Sometimes you can...sometimes you can't. No one has the ability to correctly assess everything all the time. That's whay we need monitors and RV processes to keep us on the right track. Lots of things happen when you are RVing. These things will effect your interpretation unless you remain in the discipline of your method. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/631)
22:29:27
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>Yes, they do - and they lose a lot of money, too. If this were the >pinnacle of market analysis, Kondratief and Elliott waves would explain >all market behavior. Unhappily, they don't. > I don't know about the pinnacle of market analysis... but I do know that all of society is constructed by taking into consideration the past performance of individuals in their chosen fields... certain individuals consistently score points and win ball games... certain individuals excel in all manner of activities that are consistent and are used to evaluate their worth to society. Trypper stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/632)
22:29:38
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Hello again, Re-reading my mail started me thinking about all sorts of other questions related to time and RVing, that on the surface couldn't be explained by getting access to a future 'memory', eg. locating missing persons. If, say, a remote viewer had been asked to find a missing woman, and this woman was subsequently found, dead, in precisely the spot where the RVer had seen her body (in this imaginary case she'd accidentally fallen into a river; noone knowing where she'd gone that day), and the RVer was *totally* responsible for guiding the police to the body. What is at work here? 1. Surely the RVer could not have been accessing any future memory of his own, (although he would eventually have some obviously), as this would be a paradox, ie. what he did in the past (the viewing) had *determined* the future event (the finding). 2. Another explanation is of course that the RVer was viewing the woman and/or her thoughts/emotions etc before she died, and these may well have contained enough information to 'take' him there. Dunne could well discuss this aspect later in the book; although that cannot be explained in 'assessing your future memories' terms. However, the woman would never have seen her dead body. No, I'm not getting into theories of life after death or OBE, but only that some believe that some events, if impressions are strong enough, can be'recorded' and stored somehow, and can be accessed under the right conditions; possibly leading to experiences of phantoms etc. 3. Was the RVer instead accessing his memories of reports from those that actually saw the body retrieved, albeit after following his instructions? Again this falls into the paradox trap as they wouldn't have been there unless he'd carried out the viewing in the first place. Perhaps the viewing took place not forward in time, or backward, but *across* parallel time-lines (?) Now I'm really clutching at straws. 4. The above may fit somewhere into Dunne's Serial Time theory, but I'm still only part-way into the book, and I know it gets hard-going because I read it once years ago, and could never understand it *then*......perhaps this time :-) I'll post if I find something. Sorry if the above thoughts are a bit jumbled, and my thoughts confused, but it's hard to explain. Just contributing thoughts really. Has anyone else here read Dunne's theory? Any comments? The book I'm re- reading is called 'An Experiment With Time'. Alas, I believe it is out of print. (I'll let someone else have bandwidth now :-) ) -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/633)
22:29:50
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That's true, Trypper - but how does it relate to RVing the future? Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/634)
22:29:57
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>> I mean.. pick up a newspaper, right? >> and do what with it...like I said...numbers and alphabets do not work very well in the altered state...so if alphabets and numbers do not work well, what is it you would expect to obtain from a newspaper...and never forget, that RV'ing a site is not a like a liesurely walk through the park..on the contrary, it is much like screaming down Madison Avenue is a fighter jet...Mach 2+ and trying to recall everything you saw... regards...Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/635)
22:30:06
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> That's true, Trypper - but how does it relate to RVing the future? > There are a few people who can rv the future in a consistent and accurate manner, I guess... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/636)
22:30:14
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Hi all; Liam here Welcome to the wonderful world of intelligence and RV Let me give you a hypothetical (See Gene, I know some big words also). Three professional viewers view President Regan being killed while lighting the National Christmas Tree. That information is passed to the Secret Service. The president lights the Christmas tree from inside the White House that year. He is not killed. Has RN just lost or gained credibility. Were you wrong or right? Those are rhetorical questions. The bottom line is you know. You only know if you wait until after the president is shot and then tell everyone "hey I knew that was going to happen. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/637)
22:30:34
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> and do what with it...like I said...numbers and alphabets do not work very > well in the altered state...so if alphabets and numbers do not work well, Why do you have to do it in an altered state? Why can't you just do it in a normal waking state? Did you ever try it? >what > is it you would expect to obtain from a newspaper...and never forget, that > RV'ing a site is not a like a liesurely walk through the park..on the > contrary, it is much like screaming down Madison Avenue is a fighter > jet...Mach 2+ and trying to recall everything you saw... Don't the important things just jump out at you? Don't you "remember" them? Just "know" ... ? Sorry for all the questions... Trypper stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/638)
22:30:45
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> 1. Surely the RVer could not have been accessing any future memory of > his own, ...snip Hi Glyn, It may seem nit pickey, but first you have to look at the words you are using to describe the phenomena. "Memory" by definition relates to an event which has already occured, and is recorded in the matrix as an event. When you RV the Future, you are not viewing recorded events, or memory. Your Sub, has to calculate probability give factors already in motion. Which in your hypothetical case may include, your womans love of walking along the river bank at sunset, stopping to watch the sun go down, coupled with the stresses and weakness of the river bank its self , her preferred stopping places, and body weight.... bingo.. you have a calculated probability. Now if she does not go, or by some intuition stops three feet to the left, or or or.. any of the factors used in the equasion change, the actual future will be different. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/639)
22:30:59
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> 1. Surely the RVer could not have been accessing any future memory of > his own, (although he would eventually have some obviously), as this > would be a paradox, ie. what he did in the past (the viewing) had > *determined* the future event (the finding). Why couldn't he be accessing a future memory of his own... or of reality itself? Oh... you're still in cause and effect, right? What happens to cause and effect in the event horizon of a black hole? Trypper stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/640)
22:31:07
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Liam wrote: Has RN just lost or gained credibility. Were > you wrong or right? Those are rhetorical questions. The bottom line is you > know. You only know if you wait until after the president is shot and then > tell everyone "hey I knew that was going to happen. Ok Liam... now you're at the meat of the issue.. What really matters here? Is it the credibility of rv? Well if you are sell it .. writing books and giving classes and collecting grants and building a career and reputation on it then yes.. that what matters. But if you are just a player in the game.. an observer and occasionally a bit more.. then what matters? ...You try to do the right things by yourself, I guess... what else can you do? ... and nobody knows.. Trypper stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/641)
22:31:15
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>> > well in the altered state...so if alphabets and numbers do not work well, Why do you have to do it in an altered state? Why can't you just do it in a normal waking state? Did you ever try it? >> Do what in a "waking state"?...What is you are talking about here....I am talking about RV (Remote Viewing...)..this is not something you do while having lunch with friends....it is not something you do while watching TV..it takes discipline, training (either by yourself or from a qualified trainer) and it takes certain protocols...You are trying to trivilize a phenomena which many of us have spent years trying to learn and use...For my part...I think I will move to the dark corner lurk on this issue for a while...head is getting a little sore from beating it against wall.... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/642)
22:31:25
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>> But if you are just a player in the game.. an observer and occasionally a bit more.. then what matters? ...You try to do the right things by yourself, I guess... what else can you do? ... and nobody knows.. Trypper >> What exactly are you trying to push on us here Trypper?...Neither Liam nor myself charge for teaching RV...but we have a thing which may not be in vogue lately called personal honor and pride...Simply because you do not get paid for doing something does not mean that you cannot do it the very best you know how...ask any Medal of Honor winner if they were trained to do the extraordinary things they did (if they lived through it)...NOPE...but that is why it is called a Medal of Honor...RV is not on line here...If every scientist and fraud currently looking into RV suddenly came up with proof that it does not work, I assure you both Liam and myself would not skip a beat...we would continue to work with our students and continue to train them to use the magic...I do not do what I do for personal accolades...in case you did not know it..I don't even use my true name on the net...try calling Gene Kincaid in DC and see who you get...it will not be me....Liam - perhaps the closest friend I have in the world is not even in the US...he continues to serve the government honorably and does not use his true name either...It is not glory which drives us Trypper...it is a little thing called truth and all the naysayers in the world cannot take that goal away from us.... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
mars.. - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/643)
22:31:35
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I was not given that feedback. All I was told as feedback was that I RVed "Mars in the past." Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith The Inner Vision Research Institute stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/644)
22:31:51
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> saw it...they, the Secret Service, changed the fabric of the future based on > our data and moved the no fly zone...They believed in us actually...used us on > occasion...So you see the future is part of the continuum but it can be > changed...r Okay...I concede that it was not a miss (that was an evaluation). BUT, all you can prove is that it DIDN'T happen. NOT that you changed the fabric of the future. You cannot prove that. As far as I am concern, the future ENTAILED the RV team viewing the situation and advicing the Secret Service and so forth... THAT was the future outcome. In other words, don't start from point 0 and end at point 1 when there is the number line -1,-2, 0, 1, 2 to contend with, the past,present,future event being the number line. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/645)
22:32:02
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> What exactly are you trying to push on us here Trypper?. I'm not a pusher... I'm a player. :-) >If every scientist and fraud currently looking into RV suddenly came up with >proof that it does not work, I assure you both Liam and myself would not skip a >beat... You trust your own experiences over someone else's, huh? :-) That must mean you trust your own judgement too. At least you have enough common sense not to use your real name... that makes you smarter than me. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/646)
22:32:31
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>-1,-2, 0, 1, 2 to contend with, the past,present,future event being the number >line. > Hi Electrix. We did not change the future. You cannot change something that has not happened yet. We may have altered the future. Unless you are a follower of John Calvin, we all change the future a hundred times a day by little choices we make. Should I go to work, or stay home. What eve choice I make, my future will be different. When Custer decided to spilt his command into three parts and ride down into the valley with 221 men to attack 3000 native Americans, he altered his future. He was not locked into that future. He had free will.Unless you believe in predestination. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/647)
22:32:42
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Yaana Allen wrote: > When we RV the future what ever we see becomes real to us, no more wishful > thinking or denial, we can consciously choose to make changes. Changes > effect the future (free will). RV can be a catalyst to get us to take > responsibility.. or action.. rather than continue on in our patterns, but > it is not magic, just a source of data. Real or imagined if we do not > like what we see, it can inspire us to take action, or we can just sit > around and feel helpless complaining. It is just a tool, we still have to > do the work :) Perhaps what we need to emphasize in the discussion is the future that affects one individual and the future that affect an entire (the whole) wordly system. First, I must say that we have all the free will to do anything at any time. That's provable. But because I have free will doesn't mean that the future is DEPENDENT on my free will. Otherwise, anything free will activity I set out to do to change the future would mean that the outcome will always be as I set out to do with my free will. Since we can prove that free will activity changes the future. Thus, it remains an unknown. Second, if everyone has a free will and imposes activity on the world, that would mean we have a future that's chaotic if the free will of everyone was to take effect. This would mean we can't possibly observe the future accurately since everything keeps shifting. To conclude, yes...we live in as individual in free will world...but the future has been set. Why? because It has already played out itself...it is just that we as human beings are experiencing it in the now! The future already happen in the ether!. We are just tourist getting the best of a ring side seat. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/648)
22:33:01
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>> 1. Surely the RVer could not have been accessing any future memory of >> his own, ...snip > >Hi Glyn, Hello Yaana, > >It may seem nit pickey, but first you have to look at the words you are >using to describe the phenomena. > >"Memory" by definition relates to an event which has already occured, and is >recorded in the matrix as an event. Absolutely. I was mulling over something I'd said in my previous post about Dunne's precognitive dream. The memory Dunne spoke about would have been a 'true' memory (at time c) of a past event (at time b) which he think he accessed (in a somewhat distorted form) before either of these (time a). Sorry if I didn't/don't come over clearly, I'm doing my best to even understand the concept, let alone being able to put my thoughts on it into words, in a way that makes any sense at all to others :-) -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/649)
22:33:18
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>Why couldn't he be accessing a future memory of his own... or of reality >itself? > >Oh... you're still in cause and effect, right? What happens to cause >and effect in the event horizon of a black hole? Hello Trypper, I didn't say that the future cannot affect the past. Some think it can. I hadn't got that far, and I was only 'ticking' one particular thought off as not sitting properly with Dunne's idea; mentioned in my previous post. I don't know a lot about black holes I'm afraid, or even if they've been found to exist. My limited understanding (which may be incorrect) is that there may be collapsed star of great mass, although perhaps tiny in size, at the centre, and that this exerts such an enormous gravitational pull that it stops its own emissions, including light, from escaping its grip. I would be interested in learning more, especially any implications re distortions of time. -- Regards, Glyn stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/650)
22:33:31
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> I make, my future will be different. When Custer decided to spilt his > command into three parts and ride down into the valley with 221 men to > attack 3000 native Americans, he altered his future. He was not locked into > that future. He had free will.Unless you believe in predestination. > I knew the C word was coming...Calvinism. I am not saying that we are locked in the future. Although, I do believe there is some synergistic shifts going on in creating a future that has already played itself out. All I am saying is that the future already played out itself and we humans are just observing and experiencing the phenomena. Whenever we wish to access the Meta Reality it is there to "see". Think of a roll of movie film projecting our lives. The film is there. We could look at it in the past, frame 1. In the present, frame 2, and in the future, frame3. In the meantime, we are just going through the motions of getting our popcorn (free will) out in the lobby, only to comeback and watch the film anytime our heart desires by RVing frame 1 , 2 or 3. I already mentioned my empirical proof to the future. i.e. stuff that cannot be denied... 1. If we are RV the future accurately and indeed it manifest, *that* is an empirical truth that the future exist. 2. That once we view the future we can affect the present. We can change our thinking or activity to accommodate any condition which we want to avoid or permit. That's easily provable since we can see our behavior change because of the future data we are reacting to. 3. We can prove that observation of a future event DIDN'T or DID happen by its manifestation. Regardless of whether we RV'ed it accurately or inaccurately. 4.To change the fabric of the future by RVing is not provable. Otherwise, RV would be the Cause and the future the effect. Totally illogical. 5. My big logical leap...we are synergistically creating a future that has already played out itself, otherwise, we couldn't possibly RV it accurately. Not proof...but an hypothesis. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/651)
22:33:42
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>I believe your premise is that whatever is in the Collective Unconscious >automatically affects every person's subconscious. No...I think I was just asking if the collective unconscious would contain everyone's perceptions..ummm..or AOL's as well as valid information and how would one tell the difference if that were true. I could see if several people of different personality types/beliefs viewed the same thing that would pretty much validate it, but what of the person on their own or those that share a common belief? I suppose to state it very basically, is there some sort of cosmic cruft sifter that comes into play so you (not you personally, but a general you) would know what you have viewed is a true future and not a future as perceived by someone else. Is that confusing? I'm sorry if I'm being incredibly dense. >I hope this was clear...all in all, just don't delude yourself that you >have the power to change the future.. But, I do think we have the ability to change the future, not just by those who can remote view, but by the things we do on a day to day basis. The people we meet, how we interact with those people..I think that all comes into play and not only affects their future but our own. Otherwise...if it's all predestined, why even get out of bed in the morning? Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/652)
22:33:51
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>But, I do think we have the ability to change the future, not just by those > who can remote view, but by the things we do on a day to day basis. The > people we meet, how we interact with those people..I think that all comes > into play and not only affects their future but our own. Otherwise...if > it's all predestined, why even get out of bed in the morning? Predestined? No. But then how can you explain that we can RV the future accurately, if there was no future there already? And if indeed the future is unfolding as we go about our business, how come we don't RV the future dynamically and fuzzy? This would mean these RV studs are tapping in to imagination...and as you can tell.. they are adamant in protecting their belief system as to state that they CAN see the future. If the future wasn't there my friend, they couldn't possibly see it! electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
The Question of Trust - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/653)
22:34:06
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[stargate] The Question of Trust Lyn et al, Thank you Lyn, for such a comprehensive reply to my CRV v.ERV q. May I take another component of it, and expand the discussion a little. Lyn said about Gene....>He's one of only three people I would >now trust to monitor me in an ERV session.) The question of trust seems to come up a lot. I envy you having someone you can trust. I cannot remember the last time I trusted anyone. Why are Gene, Liam, Skip to be trusted (in an rv sense of course. ) Why is the issue of trust so important. With what do you entrust them. Why would you not trust others. Is it an issue in CRV too. Who would care to expand on the issue of monitor trust. . In Friendship and Light. MaryD stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/654)
22:34:19
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electrix, I would like to look at point 4 of your hypothesis. > 4.To change the fabric of the future by RVing is not provable. Otherwise, RV > would be the Cause and the future the effect. Totally illogical. IF: time as we perceive it here only exists under certain conditions [the conditions of this 3rd dimension reality, for example] THAN: "logic' as we know and define it in this 3-D time/space framework only applies to [only works in] this 3-D linear sequence time/space/place. IE: 3-D time/space Cause and Effect Logic can only exist in a linear sequence time/space/place. ...and that would probably make all the other points in the hypothesis irrelavent'. So the logic and the hypothese may be totally correct, but only in this dimension! ...and this is only a small part of the energy pattern grid or matrix [or what ever we would call it] that I am aware of. I am not a trained RVer; and yet I follow this list with great interest because I sometimes 'go' outside of this time/space and I want to understand this 'traveling' better. I can't prove I go anywhere, but that is irrelavent to me because 'traveling' is a part of MY reality -- and what really is the world we live in but our perceptions of it? ...and at least it feels great to be able to talk about it... Joyce stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/655)
22:34:37
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> No...I think I was just asking if the collective unconscious would contain > everyone's perceptions..ummm..or AOL's as well as valid information and how > would one tell the difference if that were true. I could see if several > people of different personality types/beliefs viewed the same thing that > would pretty much validate it, but what of the person on their own or those > that share a common belief? I suppose to state it very basically, is there > some sort of cosmic cruft sifter that comes into play so you (not you > personally, but a general you) would know what you have viewed is a true > future and not a future as perceived by someone else. Is that confusing? > I'm sorry if I'm being incredibly dense. I had to read this several times to get the jist... There are two modes we can approach this with...as an individual or as a whole. Ever seen a school of fish how they behave...they are individual fish but is like...they are operating like if there is a big brain or mind in the school itself. Some fishes in the group will turn slightly slower than the others. But for the most part, they all turn around and move uniformly. Each one viewed the future movement differently, especially the one's that turned slowly. Yet, the school KNEW the future movement as well as the individual fish. What I am saying is that there is only ONE movement. But each fish interprets it (reacts) differently, but yet KNOW the movement is going to take place. So there is a synergy going on. Each individual fish is aware. If it ain't it wouldn't be in the school of fish for too long. So there is a Grand future and individual's future weaved into it. And like the school of fish...we perceive the flow. I hope that answers your question. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/656)
22:34:48
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First off, the 4th point is a FACT...not an hypothesis. RVing can exist not, but yet the fabric future would exist. Therefore, RV is NOT the cause of creating a fabric of the future. If we take out RV all together out of the picture, a future will still be there. Unless someone can prove this....it is presently unprovable. Second, you are introducing a different category into the picture i.e. 4th, 5th..6th...dimension..., I do not speak of these because they are not defined. They are conceptual. There is nothing to grasp...has no concreteness, not emperically provable. As far as we know...logic can be used in these dimensions...how do we know? So the introduction of an arbitrary dimension, cannot deny my fact in the 3D dimension. Cannot mix apples and oranges here hon. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -Y2K - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/657)
22:35:08
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Dear Gene, I'm not hasseling you here, just want to know. It appears you are predicting world economic collapse after Y2K hits. Was that just a hypothetical case or do you mean that. Seriously curious, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/658)
22:35:27
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electrix It is so hard to put inside seeing stuff into words... [sigh] .. > Second, you are introducing a different category into the picture i.e. 4th, > 5th..6th...dimension..., I do not speak of these because they are not defined. > They are conceptual. There is nothing to grasp...has no concreteness, not > emperically provable. As far as we know...logic can be used in these > dimensions...how do we know? > > So the introduction of an arbitrary dimension, cannot deny my fact in the 3D > dimension. Cannot mix apples and oranges here hon. OK. I don't have an argument with that... So -- Yes, BUT... it appears to be the 'arbitraty dimensions' that I 'travel' in! So it's this arbitrary dimension stuff that I have to deal with to get any results -- I no longer care about proving if any of this exists: I just want to understand how to do it better, with more consistancy -- From a certain perspective it becomes kind of like past, present, and future are ocurring simultaneously, and I can tune into whichever, but its all fluid. Try again here: There are two types of internal movements that 'get me there' one is like 'sideways paralell' and the other like 'straight up' a tunnel. Straight up locks into * simultaneous * fluid 'time'; sideways accesses memory, can be past or future memory, but it is not 'alive' it is more like observing static pictures; like reading records [seeing, hearing, sensing records]. And I am not 'trained' so can only do this sometimes... It is kinda like a dance: You know how you can be moving with the music, and it is like your feet are just following the music and the rest of you is just following your feet, and the dance feels like grace and joy, and then you try to let your mind figure out what your feet are doing and you stumble and lose the beat? Well it's kinda like that sometimes -- suddenly I am suddenly back 'here' again, dazed.. Can any of this make any sense to anyone here? I have so much trouble with language that I am gonna just observe and be quite now.. Joyce stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/659)
22:35:45
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Dear Michael, I was surprised to hear that theta is associated with ADD. Certainly people with ADD are prone to self destructive behaviour, this is supposed to result from loss of suppressive neurons that control negative behaviour. Therefore, it seems a tenable hypothesis that artifically inducing theta wave states, may reduce the effectiveness of the same suppressive nerons, rendering a person vulnerable to negative behaviour..To keep the argument focused I will not propose the correlary that this same state ( depressed neural suppression) may render a person vulnerable to some form of negative telepathic suggestion. Regards, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/660)
22:35:53
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Thanks for putting out this question electrix and Vicki. One other alternative to changing the future is moving your individual conciousness to the parallel universe ( one of an infintie number) that contains the desired result. The parallel universe model of quantum mechanics fulfills all of the mathmatical rigor of quantum predictions in the lab. ..Although not the most popular "model" of quantum mechanics it remains a strong candidate and it mandates and infinte number of parallel universes and suggests that ones conciousness may track from one universe to another. In this case "seeing" the future successfully would involve dragging your conciousness to the appropriate time line where it can be fulfilled.. Any thoughts? Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/661)
22:36:07
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>> At least you have enough common sense not to use your real name... that makes you smarter than me. >> Not smarter..just wiser... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/662)
22:36:34
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>> I hope that answers your question. electrix >> Hi...just one of the "studs" here...I am always glad when I meet someone who has all the answers... gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -Y2K - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/663)
22:36:47
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>> Dear Gene, I'm not hasseling you here, just want to know. It appears you are predicting world economic collapse after Y2K hits. Was that just a hypothetical case or do you mean that. Seriously curious, Bill >> It was nothing more than another of my sardonic and sarcastic replies...I for one, do not believe the wunderkind of Bill Gates et. al. is going to bring down the world on 1 Jan 2000. It concede I may not want to make deposits into an ATM on New Years Eve...but then again, I do not buy cars assembled on Monday either...a week, maybe a month or two or minor irritations and screwups will occur...people will get zeros added into the Social Security checks...people will be charged $4M for local telephone calls...but I doubt empires will crumble because of it...lots of people still own things called pens and paper and we all manage to survive the irritation... Gene.. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/664)
22:37:05
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>In a recent documentary called The Dream Files, it was noted that there >are several stages a night a person goes though in accessing theta state >(since it must seek Delta to be in REM state). The first stage is >usually of the theta encounter the person goes through disturbing >experiences during sleep, only to mellow out during the night (in fact, >every 90 minutes or so we are cycling through the state levels through >out the day). Theta is present is some areas of the brain during light sleep. This is not a disturbing experience 99.9% of the time. The brain does not seek delta to be in REM, as you have described above. In fact there is no delta present during REM. Again, theta is simply an indicator that an area of the brain is relatively inactive. As the brain processes events of the day, different areas are turned on and off frequently. Theta doesn't make you any more vulnerable psychologically than resting your physical muscles makes your more vulnerable to physical attack. We often train or induce theta activity in certain areas of the brain for therapeutic purposes. Anxiety control can be taught by teaching theta increases in certain regions. Traumatic memories can be surfaced (sometimes) by increasing theta at O1-O2. To say this makes the person more vulnerable is an odd way to look at it. The person is vulnerable because of the trauma, not because of the method which reveals it. The Monroe Institute programs are effective mostly because they teach theta production, thereby allowing direct access to mental mechanisms that are normally inhibited by other brain functions. TMI considers this a method for growth rather than for increasing vulnerability. If there were serious side-effects of theta training, it would be evident in their thousands of students. I have seen many, many individuals taught to increase theta and I have seen *no* evidence of long term harm. The only problem I have ever seen is temporary (less that 2 minute) disorientation to immediate surroundings because the analytical mechanisms that usually deal with the outside world have been shut down. This is no different than the re-orientation period required when waking up from sleep. Best regards, Michael R. Michael O'Bannon, Ph.D. Corporate and Clinical Psychologist 42 Lenox Pointe Atlanta, GA 30324 stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/665)
22:37:21
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>negative behaviour. Therefore, it seems a tenable hypothesis that >artifically inducing theta wave states, may reduce the effectiveness of >the same suppressive nerons, rendering a person vulnerable to negative >behaviour. Bill, There is no evidence that training conscious control of theta harms the neurons. In fact, learning to turn theta on an off actually strengthens self-control, just as exercising a muscle by repeated tensing and relaxing strengths the muscle. There is a very effective neurofeedback technique used to train elite athletes which involves leaning to turn theta on and off at will. The protocol has been used to increase performance of a number of Olympic athletes. Best regards, Michael stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/666)
22:37:45
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Yes, Bill, I agree with that. That is why it's so diffcult to RV the future. Jerry stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/667)
22:37:58
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electrix wrote: > Perhaps what we need to emphasize in the discussion is the future that affects > one individual and the future that affect an entire (the whole) wordly system. How many times in history has "one" person made a difference. From the public heroes, to the local heroes, or people who just quietly plod along doing what they believe to be right.. or wrong for that matter. The collective future is made up of the actions of individuals. At any time the child steps forward and says..."hey, look at the naked man".. I mean the Emperor has not clothes.. the heard thinking of the masses can shift dramatically. > First, I must say that we have all the free will to do anything at any time. > That's provable. But because I have free will doesn't mean that the future is > DEPENDENT on my free will. Otherwise, anything free will activity I set out > to do to change the future would mean that the outcome will always be as I set > out to do with my free will. Since we can prove that free will activity > changes the future. Thus, it remains an unknown. Excuse me, there is a hole in this one big enough to drive a truck through. the issue here seems to be, I want to have control over my life, but I don't want to be responsible. With my free will I choose my actions, reactions and non actions. Those effect others. We are social animals, we need community and acceptance. If I am powerful enough to enroll hundreds, thousands, millions of people to agree with me I can change the course of history, remember a guy named Hitler. Saying I have free will, and I can prove it, but that the future is not dependent on me, is an abdication of responsibility, not proof that we are predestined. This group likes to refer to works of fiction to validate positions, try Richard Bach, he says that all the possible futures have been created and by your exercise of free will, we get to choose which one you play in. > Second, if everyone has a free will and imposes activity on the world, that > would mean we have a future that's chaotic if the free will of everyone was to > take effect. This would mean we can't possibly observe the future accurately > since everything keeps shifting. Free will is not the exercise of fantasy or wishful thinking, it is action. If you put into action the activities required to inspire others and lead them, you would make a difference. If however you are an arm chair quarterback your affect will go unnoticed. Most people are more comfortable criticizing the works of others than putting their butt on the line to make a difference, those folks are not the ones who change the world, they are the ones who allow the current state to exist. > To conclude, yes...we live in as individual in free will world...but the > future has been set. Why? because It has already played out itself...it is > just that we as human beings are experiencing it in the now! The future > already happen in the ether!. We are just tourist getting the best of a ring > side seat. > I have done regression therapy for nearly 20 years. There is a place where I take clients some times, in between lives where they see their purpose for incarnating. In this place, repeatedly what was created was possibilities, like a series of " if then..goto " statements. We pick all the players, and their potential, and the purpose for playing the game, along with the choice to have amnesia about it. The future is not set, it is created by way we invest our life, every second, every thought we are cementing probabilities, through our thoughts, beliefs, and actions. They are not set, we create them. Until each of us understand that we are ultimately responsible for our own lives and that victim is only a concept we create to avoid responsibility for what we can do, we will continue as limited beings. It is not whether you can make a difference, you DO make a difference with every breath you take, the only question is.. what difference are you making? Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/668)
22:38:09
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> Theta is present is some areas of the brain during light sleep. This is > not a disturbing experience 99.9% of the time. The brain does not seek > delta to be in REM, as you have described above. In fact there is no delta > present during REM. Then perhaps I need to quote you the source of the information:Rosalind Catwright, psychoanalyst, Dream Researcher... I will tell you what exact episode of The Dream File documentary next time. I may even write a short transcript for you. But then again it would be one psychologist word against another. But I would opt for the specialist. > Again, theta is simply an indicator that an area of the brain is relatively > inactive. As the brain processes events of the day, different areas are > turned on and off frequently. Theta doesn't make you any more vulnerable > psychologically than resting your physical muscles makes your more > vulnerable to physical attack. Theta by itself does nothing. The STATE of being in Theta is an open receptivity. > We often train or induce theta activity in certain areas of the brain for > therapeutic purposes. Anxiety control can be taught by teaching theta > increases in certain regions. Traumatic memories can be surfaced > (sometimes) by increasing theta at O1-O2. To say this makes the person > more vulnerable is an odd way to look at it. The person is vulnerable > because of the trauma, not because of the method which reveals it. My point is that this state POTENTIALLY has, as you said "traumatic memory [experience]." The abrupt surface, thru artificial or active stimulation, can affect health. Do you agree or disagree? Yes or No, please. > The Monroe Institute programs are effective mostly because they teach theta > production, thereby allowing direct access to mental mechanisms that are > normally inhibited by other brain functions. TMI considers this a method > for growth rather than for increasing vulnerability. If there were serious > side-effects of theta training, it would be evident in their thousands of > students. First off, I have mentioned before that our consciousness seeks to avoid the "traumatic area" at all cost. Sometimes, however, it fails if one is experimenting or abusing biofeedback. Then, one has to seek a competent psychologist to handle the damage. Second, Monroe's brainwave signals are made up of several mix of brainwave level activities. The signals are not made up SOLELY of Theta signal. Three, The signal themselves have a WIDE spectrum to cover between the signals. Fourth, one sample of who knows how many, but I recently had a friend listening to a Metamusic tape when affected is immune system. It stirred up a cold and sinusitis. So yes not "thousands". However, I am not targeting TMI in this regard since I believe they are one of the better research institutions. I shall endeavor to provide some passages from Anna Wise regarding this same topic next time. > I have seen many, many individuals taught to increase theta and I have seen > *no* evidence of long term harm. The only problem I have ever seen is > temporary (less that 2 minute) disorientation to immediate surroundings > because the analytical mechanisms that usually deal with the outside world > have been shut down. This is no different than the re-orientation period > required when waking up from sleep. Can I ask, what studies did you get the above information? electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/669)
22:38:25
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> Hi...just one of the "studs" here...I am always glad when I meet someone who > has all the answers... Sorry if I offended you dude...I just happen to be a well read individual. It just also happens that I am also researching the areas I am so vocal about. But if you have more concrete answers...Proof... If your epistemology is better..please share it. I am willing to change my mind. So far you have not syllogistically refuted my claims or have provided your proof of why you believe in your "future" hypothesis. I am all ears (actually sight)...I am also here to learn, believe it or not! electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
No More Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/670)
22:38:38
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I will no longer elaborate on this Future topic... apparently, there is a miscommunication occurring that we do not wish to clarify, even though I believe I have made every effort to explain my side by analogies, example, empirical observation, and plain english. I will go back to my lurk state. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future Yaana - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/671)
22:38:51
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Excuse me...my fault. I fell into the an argumentative trap I always look to avoid....but I ovelooked it. Free will is a CONCEPT. If I intend to make a premise on this subject....it will have to be defined and agreed by both of us. Otherwise, we would be discussing the concept totally out of sync and the discussion will go nowhere. I would rather keep a CONCRETE argument if we do not define conceptual parameters. I would explain my position to you...but as I can see, you have taken my Free Will concept totally out of the context than what I intended. By the way trying doing pro-gression for a change. 20 years of regression can certainly be a drag. And maybe you would learn something about the Future of your patients. electrix stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future/ Is's or Isn't's - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/672)
22:39:01
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electrix: Hello. imho yes, the future is 'there'. Einstein described it as a field, not a railroad track leading from here to there. It is certainy possible to RV the 'future' at least from the point at which you do your viewing. Naturally there may be some changes in some things, especially if humans are involved. lol My own experience in this has been that this can best be shown by viewing future events in the Market, as this is the best of all proof. You only have to open the Wall St. Journal to see the results. If someone is interested in this usage, will be glad to provide information and data on past experimentation.. One of the experiments is on P. 201 in Dr. Radin's 'The Conscious Universe'. It was a simple concept, the experiment lasted over a year's time. Another experiment which you may have heard about on the 5/26 and 6/8 Sightings on the Radio Show involved consistent results over a nine-year period. (1989-1998) Records on this were NOT kept by us but by a non-involved individual in New York, Henri Boll, of the Newsletter 'Financial Foresight'. Simply stated, yes, you can learn to do this. It is a learnable skill. No one will ever be 100% perfect. Who is? ( imho lotteries are in a different category. There are too many complexities in WHICH lottery on WHICH date in WHICH State, and in many States there are several (as many as 5 lotteries) on any one date) As to the hypothetical 'missing woman' this is the type of thing that the Psi Squad has done since 1971, and can certainly be done. I am not talking about generalities like 'near water' or 'near trees' but specifics. Specifics would include even small details that occur in a crimescene. small as a coffee cup that should not have been there on a kitchen table; a red thread on a window screen that led to solving a double homicide; a murderer'sleft eye that was injured in a childhood accident; or a toilet seat that was in the 'up' position although in a single woman's apartment. In one Montana case, the missing woman was viewed as having had a sudden heart attack high up on a mountain; and when found, 7 years later, was exactly as stated. In another, a missing private airplane (white) in Alaska had skidded into the icy edge of a frozen lake, one wing sticking up. Because the lake was viewed here as shaped like an 'arrowhead' pointing N/NE, it was identified by the C.A.P. and searched at a very low altitude. The wing was then visible, just as seen. Not all is yet known about 'time' certainly, and I have included a section of thinking and quotes from various persons in and out of the remote viewing world (including Lyn Buchanan) in an Appendix to my upcoming book, which will be out Aug. 16. (The Psychic Paradigm,Berkley Putnam) No two people will agree entirely upon any explanation of what 'time' is or how it works; but the great majority of experimentation with Rving into the past or the future, at least that which we ourselves have been associated with in the past thirty- five years, , shows that you need not be an expert on time or timelines in order to do probative work with it. Let the experts finalize the matter; no need to get all bound up with wondering whether or if remote viewing will or will not change an outcome of a situation. Perhaps it does in some cases, not in others. Probably, we will never be completely certain one way or another. BTW Has anyone heard how Joe is doing? Bevy Jaegers U.S.Psi Squad stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
No More Future/New Topic? - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/673)
22:39:11
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Hi there :-), How about a new topic? I learn RV and have problems with Stage 3 - Sketching. Anytime I attempt to sketch the visual impact gets overwhelming and I know I get into an AOL drive. I always have to declare my sketch "AOL sketch". I wonder how other RV students and experts handle the Stage 3. I would appreciate your comments. Throughout the other stages of RV I can usually just go by feelings and plainly know about what's going on. Sometimes I cheat , I go in a kind of ERV stage and see the information, but then I know it's not AOL and put the information received into the A/s column. Hope you all have a great day, Monika stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future / /'Psychic Seeing?' - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/674)
22:39:26
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The literal meaning of 'clairvoyance' is french for 'clear seeing'. This is an old and outdated term that still hangs around like the smell of cabbage boiling. I have no idea what 'psychic seeing' would be, nor how it would (or could) be separated from 'clairvoyance' or remote viewing or precognition, retrocognition, et al. The learnable ability to take advantage of whatever protocols are devised, to help one learn to see specific things in time or space and to gain specific information about them, is what we are discussing here. Right? Hypnosis and hypnotherapy finally freed their origin from 'mesmerism' which was another boiled-cabbage word. It is time to stride forward boldly into the real world where even the word 'psychic' (meaning - of the mind) no longer describes the abilities we are all working to gain and perfect. Psycho-metry (mind-measure) a made-up word which was used to describe the gaining of impressions from an object as target, makes much more sense as 'Psi-touch'. (Sorry, it was the only word available in the 70's) We used to be known as The Psychic Rescue Squad...back in those salad days of the 1960's, lol But we're about to enter a new Millenium, folks. In my humble opinion, we do not want to stumble backward. No offense, JP. Bevy J U. S. Psi Squad stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/675)
22:40:01
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Damn Bill...if you didn't have a Ph.D. I would say you were on drugs. But I know better. At least you offer a theoretical explanation and a model for your belief. I am not familiar with the parallel universe model of quantum mechanics...so it might be cool if you could break it down to a user-friendly level...like an example, analogy or an Event Theory (an actual situation that is concrete to determine its validity) as opposed to your presented Conceptual Theory. I suppose you are suggesting that at any one Time Line there are layers. Would that mean we are still moving forward on the Time Line or only moving upward/downward (laterally)...or both? If it is layered, the only problem I see in this is that we would also have to have a "layered" past and present. Otherwise for every minute that unfolds it would mean that these multi-layers are dynamically branching off creating multi-universes. Also, if we RV the past it would mean that, hypothetically, we meet it with as less success as we are able to predict the future. Because the same rule would have to apply uniformly across the Time Line, this would be contrary to "world class" Remote Viewers who state that the past is much easier to RV compared to the future. Another problem that I can see is the movement of consciousness. First, we would have to define what do you mean by consciousness and in what way does it seem to possess the characteristic of motion. Then we would have to establish how do you model the parallel universe. As discrete or continuous horizontal function. I have a hunch that the reason "they" say that we are unable to view the future as easily is because of an improper definition or concept of how Remote Viewers model the future. Meaning for example, as in the days of Columbus, the people had the wrong model of the Earth as flat. So every calculation to "see" future land came down to mythological stories. Eventually, they got the model right. A round Earth. Thus a better perspective and calculations (not to mention new and accurate land discoveries) took place. This would mean your model deviates from the norm, and thus can provide some new insights of thinking of new "future" models. Actually, I would be very interested in finding out where present Remote Viewers assimilated their present model interpretation of the future. That is, what makes them think that the future keeps changing even though they can still predict it accurately as it is constantly changing . I can't think of any philosopher (although it has a tinge of Heraclitus) or Scientist that has elaborated on that particular model...have any ideas? electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/676)
22:40:12
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was: Re: [stargate] Changing the future, posted by Electrix: >Because the same rule >would have to apply uniformly across the Time Line, this would be contrary >to "world class" Remote Viewers who state that the past is much easier to RV >compared to the future. Hi Electrix, all, It was either Ed May or James Spottiswoode if my memory serves me right that said the lab data they have collected says that accuracy does not seem to be affected whether you are viewing the past, present or future, nor whether the target cue is written before or after the remote-viewing session has been completed(!). But since my sound card failed late Friday/early Saturday, and I haven't yet been able to get it working since, I haven't been able to pinpoint the exact show appearance or personality who made the statement. I seem to recall it was James Spottiswoode, discoverer of the famous dramatic increase in performance in anomalous cognition trials at 13:30 LST, and it was his appearance on Sightings on the Radio (at http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/, RealAudio Archives, search for 'James Spottiswoode' and click..), where he makes this statement. I remember being distinctly confused and a little suspicious (since I'd been led to believe otherwise) when Spottiswoode (if it was him) said that. He also said that while remote-viewers may *think* they're getting better over time with practice, the lab data they've collected and analysed does not tend to support that, and accuracy remains fairly consistent over time. He said he's done RV himself and you *do* get the impression you're gettign better at distinguishing noise from signal, but at the end of the day, the lab data does not support that belief at all. This would seem to fly in the face of what we've been led to believe, so I have to wonder, who's right? I'm a famous supporter of lab data, so if these statement is correct, we might need to re-think what's being discussed here. I wish I could offer something more positive. I've listened to Spottiswoode several times and that's what I recall. If anyone reading has RealAudio and wouldn't mind listening to the show, I'd appreciated it if they could confirm the exact words Spottiswoode (or May, or Radin, or whoever it was, but I'm pretty sure it was Spottiswoode). Now.. time for me to jump up and down on this sound card and see if that helps.. I've tried everything else! When it's plugged in, my computer is happy, but my speakers don't work and the headphones won't either, and neither will my CDROM drive's speakers. When it's unplugged, the computer complains there's no soundcard. I've checked all my software settings and everything checks out. If anyone can help, please email me! Thanks! Best regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/677)
22:40:28
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>> But if you have more concrete answers...Proof... If your epistemology is better..please share it. I am willing to change my mind. So far you have not syllogistically refuted my claims or have provided your proof of why you believe in your "future" hypothesis. >> Gee. I thought we were talking about abstracts...here...things pretty tough to prove...but what do I know....as for responding...I am just a stupid dumb Mick born on the wrong side of the streets in Belfast...it will take me months to look up all those big words you used before I can even begin to respond...guess I will just have to be satisfied with living with my own proofs...things I know that work...let all of you smart people discuss this among yourselves.... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/678)
22:40:35
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>> I've checked all my software settings and everything checks out. If anyone can help, please email me! Thanks! Best regards, Steve. >> First view the past to see how and why it worked then...then view the present to see what is causing the malfunction, then view the future to see how you fixed it...What could be easier.... Gene... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/679)
22:41:17
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Upon my discharge from The United States Air Force in 1970, I was made aware that an EEG objectified abnormal Delta wave patterns. I am unsure of the etiology for this occurrence ( I had incurred several head traumas and exposure to xenobiotics and chemicals subsequent to a prior, normal EEG ). I have a bifurcated question on this point; would a physiological change due to trauma be the most likely cause for this, or can exposures play a role? Secondly, what effect(s), if any, can abnormal Delta waves play in relation to remote viewing? Sincerely, Ron (Sky) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/680)
22:41:27
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On Sat, 01 Aug 1998 17:19:03 PDT, Bill Pendergrass wrote: >Thanks for putting out this question electrix and Vicki. I think it was actually, just Electrix, I was merely trying to gather an opinion regarding the content of collective consciousness/unconsciousness or the validity of that content regarding future. If everyone's perceptions/thoughts make up a sort of consciousness queue. Why shouldn't the same theory apply for unconsciousness? It's my understanding that remote viewing takes place in the unconscious, so...wouldn't what is perceived at that level become part of that collective (un)consciousness and wouldn't it include AOL's as well? My knowledge of collective consciousness/unconsciousness is minimal at best and ranks right up there with what I know about remote viewing...keeping that in mind..be gentle. >..[snip]...The parallel universe model of quantum mechanics...[snip] I think it only fair to tell you, Bill, that the only mechanics I can speak about with any sort of knowledge are the ones at Frank's, who informed me that the red light on the dashboard was not a nightlight ;-) >..[snip]...and it mandates and infinte number of >parallel universes and suggests that ones conciousness may track from >one universe to another. In this case "seeing" the future successfully >would involve dragging your conciousness to the appropriate time line >where it can be fulfilled.. Any thoughts? So...would this mean that in the case of Gene's post regarding the President...the remote viewers sort of followed many different futures looking for the one that indicated danger and addressed that one? Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future Yaana - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/681)
22:41:37
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electrix wrote: > Excuse me...my fault. I fell into the an argumentative trap I always look to > avoid....but I ovelooked it. > > Free will is a CONCEPT. If I intend to make a premise on this subject....it will have > to be defined and agreed by both of us. Otherwise, we would be discussing the concept > totally out of sync and the discussion will go nowhere. I would rather keep a > CONCRETE argument if we do not define conceptual parameters. > > I would explain my position to you...but as I can see, you have taken my Free Will > concept totally out of the context than what I intended. You make interesting transitions between "free will" statement and "victim" statements, there is nothing consistent about your presentations. This kind of argument is common for those who just dodge and weave quoting excerpts from external experts with no apparent experience of their own to reference. > By the way trying doing pro-gression for a change. 20 years of regression can > certainly be a drag. And maybe you would learn something about the Future of your > patients. What in your experience gives you the right to assume that I don't do progressions. For someone who wants to avoid the argumentative trap, you revert to invalidation very quickly when faced with questions that arise from direct experience rather than theory. Actually Regression therapy is very exciting, not a drag at all. It gives one the tools to realize when one has been laboring under false beliefs and make conscious changes, which profoundly improve the quality of their life. Progressions are part of the session, movement backwards and forward through time allows the client to gain perspective and experience outside of the immediate stresses which have locked them into a particular set of behaviors. Humans are very vulnerable to the effects of distorted, inaccurate or incomplete data as the basis for their life decisions, "garbage in garbage out". The easiest way to "refresh the data set", is through an experience, from the new perspective, new and more productive decisions can be made arising from intelligent application of free will. People get locked into unproductive behaviors, because the pressure to solve the problem is magnified by polluted data and the harder they work the worse it gets, increasing the belief that this is a survival issue. If you really want to have productive discussions, jump in with both feet, from your own experience, not from quotes from others. If you have no personal experience to speak from, it is time to go get a life. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
No More Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/682)
22:41:49
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>I will go back to my lurk state. > >electrix Please don't. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/683)
22:42:04
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>> I've checked all my software settings and everything checks out. If anyone can help, please email me! Thanks! Best regards, Steve. >> First view the past to see how and why it worked then...then view the present to see what is causing the malfunction, then view the future to see how you fixed it...What could be easier.... Gene... >>>>>>>>>>>>. . . . . . ahhhh hahahahh ROTFL.... geezeeeeee Gene, (yep, just basic common sense) once again solves the problem LOL (you are just sooooo smart :-) stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/684)
22:42:15
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> . . . . . ahhhh hahahahh ROTFL.... geezeeeeee Gene, (yep, just basic >common sense) once again solves the problem LOL (you are just sooooo >smart :-) Hi, You know, I read this thing that Gene typed twice. The first time I thought it was a funny joke, then the next time it seemed like a sarcastic dig. I'm not sure how to take it.. perhaps Gene could let me know.. I'll take it in the best possible way though and react how I did the first time.. which was LOL! Thanks =o) Hope I wasn't wrong the first time.. Regards, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/685)
22:42:24
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At 16:34 01/08/98 -0700, you wrote: >There are two types of internal movements that 'get me >there' one is like 'sideways paralell' and the other like 'straight up' >a tunnel. Straight up locks into * simultaneous * fluid 'time'; sideways >accesses memory, can be past or future memory, You mentioned internal movements, this is what works for me, and is consistantly proved successful from eventual feedback. I tape all sessions for my client. When I am working clairvoyantly, I take note of where I "see" the images. The further ahead, the further ahead... ;-) To the right, the outside world, and the people in it. To the left, the inner person, their own world, wants, needs, emotions. Behind, is ... the past. So, right and just behind my shoulder, is an event in the last few days/weeks, where other folks are involved. Also, I know these timelines relate to the houses in astrology. So... an image seen at the 2.o'clock position, but a long long way off, would be say 3 years ahead, and relate to travel, further education, spiritual development, or a sagittarian etc, depending on the image and my "knowing". Sounds flakey, but who cares, hey it works for me. MaryD stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/686)
22:42:37
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>Then perhaps I need to quote you the source of the information:Rosalind >Catwright, psychoanalyst, Dream Researcher... >I will tell you what exact episode of The Dream File documentary next time. I >may even write a short transcript for you. But then again it would be one >psychologist word against another. But I would opt for the specialist. Electrix, you are free to opt for any information you choose. Just be aware that I am not just giving you my opinion or theory. I am giving you research data that has accumulated for over 30 years, is in every textbook on the physiology of sleep, and is used daily in every sleep lab in the world. If you want to ignore that and base your beliefs on a television show instead, then go ahead. >Theta by itself does nothing. The STATE of being in Theta is an open >receptivity. There is NO "state of theta." This is what I have explained in my last few posts. There is only localized theta activity reflecting cessation of function in specific neural centers. >My point is that this state POTENTIALLY has, as you said "traumatic memory >[experience]." The abrupt surface, thru artificial or active stimulation, can >affect health. Do you agree or disagree? Yes or No, please. I do not understand your question. However, the traumatic memories do not originate in the theta activity, if this is what you are asking. >First off, I have mentioned before that our consciousness seeks to avoid the >"traumatic area" at all cost. Avoiding traumatic areas is what causes psychological disorders. You seem to believe that this avoidance is healthy. It isn't. >Second, Monroe's brainwave signals are made >up of several mix of brainwave level activities. The signals are not made up >SOLELY of Theta signal. The primary effect of most TMI tapes is theta enhancement. You will never find the brain solely in theta. There is no such state. > Three, The signal themselves have a WIDE spectrum to >cover between the signals. I have no idea what you are trying to describe here. >Fourth, one sample of who knows how many, but I >recently had a friend listening to a Metamusic tape when affected is immune >system. It stirred up a cold and sinusitis. How do you know your friend would have not gotten sick if he/she hadn't listened to the tape? >> I have seen many, many individuals taught to increase theta and I have seen >> *no* evidence of long term harm. > >Can I ask, what studies did you get the above information? This is my own personal observation of individuals undergoing theta training. Best regards, Michael R. Michael O'Bannon, Ph.D. Corporate and Clinical Psychologist 42 Lenox Pointe stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/687)
22:42:58
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>> Hi, You know, I read this thing that Gene typed twice. The first time I thought it was a funny joke, then the next time it seemed like a sarcastic dig. I'm not sure how to take it.. perhaps Gene could let me know.. I'll take it in the best possible way though and react how I did the first time.. which was LOL! Thanks =o) Hope I wasn't wrong the first time.. Regards, Steve. ---- >> Lighten up Steve...quit being so Saxon and let your Celtic side show itself a little...it is meant as nothing more than another of my little bits of sarcastic humor..to those who see it as a dig...well they probably have it coming...to you Steve...it was simple charming Irish wit.... Gene.. (now your're really confused ...right?) stargate : Message: [stargate]
J.McMoneagle - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/688)
22:43:11
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>Bevy..asked if anyone had any information on how Joe was doing. >>Well, heard from him this afternoon, and all is progressing well. He had a little complication after returning home and had to go back to the hospital for a couple of days. But, that was taken care of and he is getting stronger. I told him we were all keeping him in our prayers. Arlene stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
squeezeing stage4! - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/689)
22:43:19
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Hi again, nice to see all the chat on "Future" starting to fade a little... I personally love the stage 4 matrix, I really like that by this stage you have a good repartoir with the target and that stage 4 allows you freedom of the target but..One of the questions I'd like to hear from the ex-military guy's is if they have any tips for sqeezing a little more data from the stage 4 matrix. All the best... Darryl We came... We saw... We wrote a session summery... stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/690)
22:43:29
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>There are a few people who can rv the future in a consistent and >accurate manner, I guess... WHO JERRY? Can you name names? Regards, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/691)
22:43:39
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Hi Michael, So it appears that you would agree at least that theta training is a productive altered state. Do you see it associated with OOBE's and EVR like states? Finally, ADD people many times suffer spontaneous little trance like states. These are not petit mal,, not seizures, but their attention is totally captured by something in the environment or a thought. Is this the presence of the Theta state? And Are ADD's more psychic when in this state? stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/692)
22:43:48
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