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Stargate RV/Psi Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/
Filetype: Archive. Block #10. Topic: Remote Viewing.
First Message Number: 901. Last Message Number: 1000
First Message Date: August 11, 1998. Last Message Date: August 17, 1998
Block Filename: remote-viewing_stargate_000901-001000.shtml
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/stargate/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/stargate/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



BEGIN ARCHIVE BLOCK #10.

stargate : Message: Re: [stargate] 
RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/901)
10:49:56
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi Bill, In the recent book _Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness_, ISBN 1-86204- 203-9, Element Books 1998, author Dale Graff devotes an entire chapter to dreaming/ remote viewing and precognition. Although brief in length, he explores his hits and misses as he dreams. He begins with doubts and ends up well convinced that dreaming can work in this area. The book is easy to read and enjoyable, especially for beginners in remote viewing. ($19.95, USA). Perhaps this can give you a start in research also. Best wishes, Laura stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/902)
10:50:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
>> In the recent book _Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness_, ISBN 1-86204- >> 203-9, Element Books 1998, author Dale Graff devotes an entire >> chapter to dreaming/ remote viewing and precognition. I was gonna get this book from Amazon, but I noticed that there were two customer reviews which just TRASHED it. The criticism seemed to be focused on the notion that the book was hastily thrown together simply to "cash in" on remote viewing. -- John stargate : Message: [stargate]
Important List News
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/903)
10:51:03
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hello All, I just want to thank all of those of you who have written such kind and thoughtful e-mails of support to me in the past few days. Your support and encouragement has been wonderful, and it all means a great deal to me during what has been a very difficult time for me in every conceivable way. The past two months as moderator have been something of a powerful rollercoaster. It had some amazing emotional high points and some amazingly low points to it. I started the modern form of the Star Gate list in direct response to PJ Gaenir's decision to close her own Psi and Viewer Lists, because people needed a place to go after her lists closed down. I was hoping to keep this list unmoderated, but recent events have forced a realisation that, IMO, a moderated list is very necessary, to protect the list and it's members. I feel very highly honoured to have been among so many intelligent, thoughtful, sensitive, warm and generous people, and touched by many of your kind, supportive e-mails about how I have managed the list. I have tried my very best to do the best job that I can, and to always do what I felt was the right thing to do, for all of us. I have been pleasantly surprised, for the most part, with how the Star Gate list has progressed over the months, and by the quality of the posts and it's contributors. I want to take this time to thank YOU all for your time, for your energy, and for your generous contributions to this list! It is YOU who have made this list what it is! I merely did the care-taking and tidied up when things got a little messy here. Without you, they'd of been none of the intelligent, thought-provoking and educational discussions we've all been able to share here. However, I have some huge projects on the horizon, and some pretty wild adventures on my plate now, some I am not yet prepared to discuss. For example, there is the Target List. I intend to carry on moderating this list and to develop it. I also plan to use my new free time to develop the Star Gate website, to create new sections such as target practice sections, plus a few other things I will discuss closer to the time. I promise you I will inform you about these in due course. I have decided, however, I no longer wish the responsibility of moderating this list, and would prefer someone with tougher skin to take over the job. I have offered the job to someone else, and that person has now accepted, and will soon be making a post of her own to this list, which will now become her responsibility and her own project. This will be her own list to guide and nurture in whatever why she feels is best for the list. I have been informed that she intends to retain a very similar style to what we have all been able to enjoy here, with similar rules as currently exist to protect us all here included, but I will leave her to spell out the specifics for you. I wish her all the very best of luck! I would like to take this time to thank her for her kind support, and look forward to contributing to what will now become her own list, to guide, protect and nurture through the weeks and months ahead. I am sure she will do a wonderful job, and I wish her all the very best of luck! I trust her to take good care of this list and to protect and help develop it. So, I am hearby resigning as moderator of the Star Gate list, effective immediately. I want to state that I have received some very highly encouraging and highly supportive emails in the past few days, some much valued advice and much strengthed friendships have also resulted. The huge majority of these emails have been highly supportive, sympathetic, understanding, and very kindly sent. I am deeply endebted to you all for your support. I am deeply endebted to many list members for their very thoughtful and kind e-mails, not to mention their informative, educational, enlightening, inspiring and intelligent posts to this list. You are all such wonderful people in your own unique ways, and I hope one day to be able to meet you all in person and to thank you in person for all that you have been able to do here. Collectively, between all 75 or so of us, we have managed to pump over an incredible *900* posts to this list! That's an *incredible* achievement, and it's one that you should all be proud of. It has truely been YOU who has made this list what it is. I've just been the caretaker. It is with a variety of mixed emotions that I step down from what has been a most interesting and educational two months as moderator. I feel a not unnoticeable sense of sadness in ending this role, as it has given me a great sense of purpose and belonging that I shall miss tremendously. I will continue to contribute to this list as an ordinary subscribing member, and look forward to yet more intelligent, thoughtful and inspiring posts in the future, under the directorship of our new moderator. I will now graciously step off the virtual podium and allow our new moderator to introduce herself. I am sure you will all be the same intelligent, thoughtful and inspiring people on the list for her, as you have been for me. Thank you all, for everything! Warmly, Steve. stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/904)
10:51:25
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
ERV and lucid dream are same state... Eyal stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/905)
10:51:39
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
<< Another interesting theory that has been put forward by Gertude Schmeidler is that psi is processed in the same way as regular perception and uses the same neural processing. It is possible that the signal line is received differently but the processing appears to be the same. >> Are you saying there is an external signal line? I suspect we have the potential to perceive any event along our own individual relative temporal spatial plane by association, but I'm not a big fan of telepathy or bilocation etc... My leaning is toward precognition which appears to be a universal ability and occurs commonly in the form of dreams, premonitions, hunches, visions etc... Most psi experience may be explained by precognition. For almost every story of telepathy or OOBEs which impart information about a subject some distance from us there is a precog explaination. Since spacetime does not confine our non-material physical consciousness linearly in the same way it does our material physical form, and we experience feedback from the future continuosly on an unconscious level due to the appearance of events in spacetime occuring in parallel, and those unconscious impressions play a role in our day to day functioning, we are all experiencing precognition. It is a normal function, but understanding why some of my patients experience intrusive thoughts, hallucinations and tell me they are experiencing a parallel dimension makes me wonder whether or not psychiatry is on the right track. Granted, there are abnormalities which we see in neurological functioning in schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder etc... But - I have seen individuals adapt to their dysfunction and perform remarkable feats of psi. One such example is a medium here on Long Island named George Anderson. George was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic some years ago and claims to be able to communicate with the dead. He is one of the most successful mediums in the country, booked a year in advance, and collecting over $1500.00 per session. I'm not sure that George is really communicating with the dead, but he appears to me to be one hell of a precognitive psychic, always knowing what questions to ask and answers to give his clients. He seems to be intune with his clients in every reading. I have been meaning to read his book, but havn't gotten around to it yet. Hal Puthoff had e-mailed me sometime ago and related a story regarding a severly psychotic patient at Stanford University Hospital who claimed to have psi abilities. Hal instructed the psychiatrist to perform a few tests which the patient passed with flying colors. Unfortunately, the patient was still very psychotic and required neuroleptic medication. On high doses of major tranquilizers his ability was no longer detectable with the same tests. I wonder how many of my patients experience the same phenomenon and can't communicate the source of their distress because the intrusions into their waking state consciousness are unconscious in origin, and they are not able to cognitively process the source of their delusions or intrusive thoughts. It is entirely possible that some forms of mental illness manifest with uncontrolled random images which are misinterpreted based upon the patients limited cognitive functioning ability and fixed belief systems thereby leading to paranoid and grandious delusions and an eventual meltdown of the individuals personality and functioning. Medications play a role in controlling the psychosis to some extent, but understanding how "normal" folks cope with and control non-conventional or random unconscious functions would be a great boon to the study of mental illness. Sorry if I seem a bit pedantic but I see numerous implications in psychiatry and psychology, neurosciences, consciousness research etc... which could come from a better understanding of psi. Regards, Ken stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : Thanks
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/906)
10:51:54
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
> Jean-Luc, you may remember from the Inner Vision Course that I am > working on a Who's Who is Remote Viewing organizational chart and > eventually I will make this into a poster format. Currently, it just has > U.S. names and organizations but would be happy to add international > information. Can you help me here, as you seem so knowledgeable? > > Kind regards > Angela > ---- Dear Angela, I am anxiously awaiting your poster! I think it is a great idea. Do you know approximately when it will be available? Thanks. Jane stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
About ERV
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/907)
10:52:09
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Dear Lyn, You opened a very interesting discussion on ERV by your last post on Lucid Dreaming. Could you please elaborate on some items ? You wrote for example > 1. You have to have a monitor to follow the protocols. The monitor must > be trained in specifically ERV protocols, and not vary from them. If you > don't know what those protocols are, then what you'r doing isn't ERV. Since nobody seems, by now, to teach "ERV" as used in the former RV U.S military unit, could you tell us some words [if this may be public of course] on the specific protocols and methods used at Ft Mead ? > 2. The monitor must first allow the viewer to get into a hypnogogic state > and then provide cueing (usually coordinates, like in CRV) which will bring > the viewer onto target. Was the viewer connected to ECG, EEG, DER sets so that the monitor could visualize on screens the progress of the viewer to a hypnagogic state or was that done through a one-to-one talk ? Was it a very personalized procedure or was it more like a Monroe Institue procedure - when a pre-recorded tape leads you from the awake state to "Focus 10" for example (mind awake, body asleep) - ? Thank you in advance Lyn, Jean-Luc stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/908)
10:52:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hello Greg and Steve et al. No your response was not off topic at all. I am interested in your research into inducing OOBE's or your protocols for lucid dreams that you use. I have not seen a discussion of LD's since I've been on this site, so if you or anyone would like to put your 2c worth in please indulge yourselves. I don't have LD's too often, but I find I can carry out some directed actions when becoming lucid. The problem is that being a healthy male, and given that total freedom ,..why of course I choose to....fly (grin). But I'm sure if I could sustain the state longer, and achieve it more often I could execute some primitive searches. My sister has them almost every night, but is dreadfully afraid of changing anything for fear she will mess up her head, so she just watches them like a movie, while almost totally concious. Perhaps with some more encouragement, I can get her to volunteer as an experimental platform. Regards Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/909)
10:52:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hello Lyn, Thankyou for your reply. OK strike the word ERV. I understand that you hate to see specific terms get generalized into practically everything...but I think you need a nomenclature meeting or something. Many, perhaps most of the people "viewing" on this site are not using a monitor, yet persist in calling their viewing some kind of RV. In this case I mean Perseiving a Target with Psi during an LD. How about calling it a "PTPLD". Best Regards, Bill stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/910)
10:52:49
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi Angela, There had to have been something public prior to that, because I was aware of the U.S. Gov and Military interest in eastern European and Soviet psi research by late in 1973. Peace Dirk On 10 Aug 98, at 10:57, Angela Thompson Smith wrote: > Hi Glen, I was going through my files and came across a copy of an > unclassified document that someone sent me, way, way back. It is entitled > Soviet and Czechoslovakian Parapsychology Research dated September, 1975 stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/911)
10:53:03
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Speaking of cashing in, does anyone know of someone cashing out after the program ended? Perhaps someone who decided their job was finished, never to RV again? Could that be possible? Thanks, No No stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : Thanks
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/912)
10:53:24
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
The Who's Who in RV poster is still under construction and I am looking for funding to get it printed, so maybe later in the Fall. Kind regards Angela > Dear Angela, > I am anxiously awaiting your poster! stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Important List News
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/913)
10:53:54
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Thanks for the great introduction, Steve. And thank you Steve for being such an able and efficient moderator of the Stargate List. I was saddened when PJ decided to close the RV list and then gladdened when you decided to continue the forum with the Stargate list. I also want to thank you, Steve, for having the confidence in me to ask me to take over the moderation of the Stargate list. I realize this project has been very close to your heart, Steve, and I will treat the list with tender, loving, care. I hope that I will be able to give the list as much thoughtful attention as you have. Basically, the list will stay much the same although I am open to suggestions. The reasonable list rules that Steve posted a few days ago will remain in place. If you need to review them you can find them in the Stargate archives at Findmail. Please remember that we have teachers, students, researchers, and interested persons from many RV modalities such as CRV, TRV, SRV, ERV etc., each with their own opinions and views about RV. Let's share out ideas and opinions in a free and open spirit. I am here to learn as much as all of you. Please email me, privately, if you have any suggestions or concerns about the list at Catalyst@.... Looking forward to a long and mutually beneficial relationship. Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith The Inner Vision Research Institute stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
About ERV
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/914)
10:54:27
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Lyn, If it's not too much of an imposition, do you think you could repost that e- mail in which you described ERV. I inadvertently hit the delete key instead of the read key when I tried to open it. Thanks, Ken stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/915)
10:54:55
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
> << Of course, Science has its limitations on the phenomena > of psi in that it is a crude tool for a phenomena that is outside of > scientific realm. > >> > > Right, but psi is not outside of the scientific realm. Science just hasn't > defined a unified theory of quantum mechanics and relativity adequately which > takes into consideration the non-material physical reality of consciousness. > The following discussion lists address the subject of scientific approaches to > consciousness: Yes..I stand corrected. It is not "outside of the realm" in that that science studies the psi effect via statistical interpretations which provides a guidepost to psi understanding. But I think you got the jist of my earlier paragraph...in that what I meant to say was... the nature of consciousness alludes scientific investigation because of its related qualia, i.e. personal and subjective experience that comes to our awareness yet can't be objectified, so far, by any scientific terms. Quantum theory and mechanics, however, is providing a foundation and analogy to comprehend consciousness, thus as you said.."not outside of the scientific realm." > Physics@... (For info you can go to the Intuition Network website) > > Quantum-Mind@... > (To subscribe you can e-mail Listserv@...) > > prf@... > ( I'll have to dig around in my old e-mail for the subscription address) Thanks for the List... > Jack Sarfatti has been kind of directing the conversation on the Physics list, > while Stuart Hameroff has been moderating the Quantum-Mind list out of the > University of Arizona's Consciousness Studies area. The PRF is a moderated > forum which is contributed to by professional parapsychological researchers > from a variety of institutions including PEAR, Rhine, Koestler, the University > of Nevada etc... > Yes...there is very much an active community (multidisciplinary) studying the area of consciousness, an area once taboo in the academic circle. Although, most of the school are based in finding the source in terms of biological, neurological and brain activity as opposed to Mind as in metaphysical, like nobel recipient Francis Crick. Then there is the reductionism versus the "emergent" consciousness school. You may also wish to check out this following site:http://www.zynet.co.uk/imprint/jcs.html It is the repository for the Journal of Consciousness Studies. electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/916)
10:55:30
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
site:http://www.zynet.co.uk/imprint/jcs.html It is the repository for the Journal of Consciousness Studies. >> Thanks for the URL I will look into it later today. By the way, what field did you say you were in? Sounds to me like you are a very knowledgeable asset to the list. Regards, Ken stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/917)
10:56:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
KWSLI@... wrote: > Since spacetime does not confine our non-material physical consciousness > linearly in the same way it does our material physical form, and we experience > feedback from the future continuosly on an unconscious level due to the > appearance of events in spacetime occuring in parallel, and those unconscious > impressions play a role in our day to day functioning, we are all experiencing > precognition. It is a normal function, but understanding why some of my > patients experience intrusive thoughts, hallucinations and tell me they are > experiencing a parallel dimension makes me wonder whether or not psychiatry is > on the right track. If I interpreted the above paragraph correctly --- that's an interesting way of looking at it, i.e. precognition being exercised in the present without our full conscious awareness. I suppose, I come from the evolutionist theory...in that somehow there is connection between special cellular functions that are either dormant or mutating into a better pro-survival unit which enhances or provides a medium for extra sensory perception. But with your suggestion, I can see how I can easily swing over to your hypothesis. Tell me, do you subscribe to the idea that we are actually operating from the sub-conscious, thus the supra-conscious, instead of the consciousness level. Meaning...that the consciousness, as the ego, filters information that is being fed by the "lower" levels? I recently gleaned that there has been studies made whereby it takes consciousness a few seconds to process the data for the body to react...since, by conjecture, it is "processing" information at that time that the sub-conscious is delivering...this theory would fall neatly with your statement that we access precognition "normally." Because paranormal experience is an activity relegated in the supra and sub-conscious state which in turn is accessing non-locality. It would also validate RV process in that we must get the "ego" out of the way or keep it busy to allow the flow of data. What's your thought on this? Also, it doesn't surprise me that people that are considered to be schizophrenic or the like, would have paranormal activities. It is not unlike the minds of geniuses...where there is a tread line between their "insanity" and "creativity" and their source of inspiration generates --- the subsconscious made active. electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/918)
10:56:22
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi John :) I admit not checking the reviews on Amazon.com before purchase. I... er.....saw the book 'naked' and bought it without knowing a thing. But....for further digging....Dale Graff's website is: http://www. chesapeake.net/~baygraff/ Maybe someone here can clear our cobwebs....!? I'm curious too! Best wishes, Laura stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Gestalt vs "finished" - New Thread
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/919)
10:57:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi folks, Have trained, watched, listened, compared. Joe and others state plainly that RV session QUALITY seldom progresses beyond General Gestalt content, excepting most rare individuals. I use CRV. I almost always can convince myself of target/site contact, but am quite disappointed with the clarity/quality of session summaries. 'Liam' has stated he experiences apx 3 TIMES the quality of content (as best I understood) using ERV methods (altered state, hypnogogic, left brain dormant, etc, whatever). I have been at this apx 2 years now and am in the camp Joe talks about - general gestalt achievement level. I think- Is it just me and my lack of native talent? or- Is it technique? Does it take MORE practice? MUST I have a monitor and convert to ERV? I ask - What can an AVERAGE person EXPECT from RV session content after reasonable effort, time, and average talent has been put forth? If the better viewers could do a session I have done on the new Stargate target list, I would be most grateful. I will be posting one Paul ran me on. Any courageous responses, comments, suggestions? Thank you in advance, David ................. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/920)
10:59:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
>> Speaking of cashing in, does anyone know of >> someone cashing out after the program ended? >> Perhaps someone who decided their job was >> finished, never to RV again? Could that be possible? Lyn Buchanan wrote on the VWR list that there were some such individuals who never RV'd after their stint at Ft. Meade. -- John stargate : Message: [stargate]
No real target
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/921)
11:00:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
What happens to the RV'er when s/he is trying to view a target that doesn't exist? e.g. when the target is 'current terrorist activity in Belgium' and there is no terrorist activity at that moment. I once tried to RV a simple drawing which a friend of mine assured me he had taped on his door. But in reality he had just forgotten to do this. While 'viewing' the only thing I got was an angry feeling. All the best Frank V stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/922)
11:01:43
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Dear Electrix and all, As you've seen from my earlier posts, I'm a big fan of a quantum explanation of psi. However, after seeing the posts indicating that one could psi-view the insides of a black hole and come back...well I'm not sure anything would explain that in our current knowledge of physics. Of course it is impossible to validate those observations since there is no other know way to get back from a black hole....but if psi-viewers consistently can do that..I give up on explaining it with any kind of science. But, I will gladly stand corrected if anyone can hypothesize a mechanism. Bill stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/923)
11:01:55
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
> ERV and lucid dream are same state... > Eyal Eyal, This is not correct. I'm pretty sure some of the ERV'ers on the list will back me up on this. Greg stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/924)
11:02:21
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi, Bill: I think Steve outlined a basic, effective method for inducing LD's... reinforcement of the desire in your conscious mind that penetrates the subconscious. Keep a journal and make entries THE MOMENT YOU WAKE UP! If you would like an easier, less disciplined, high-tech aid, become a member of The Monroe Institute ($50-$65/yr) and you will receive, free of charge, their LD tape. It is extremely effective! The girl I am working with went from 4-5 OBE's/month, to 11-14/month, just by adding some TMI material to her regimen. Also, if you would to master altered states, for ERVpurposes, TMI is the short road home. My sister > has them almost every night, but is dreadfully afraid of changing > anything for fear she will mess up her head, so she just watches them > like a movie, while almost totally concious. Perhaps with some more > encouragement, I can get her to volunteer as an experimental platform. Isn't life ironic? Unless your sister's belief system changes dramatically, it is doubtful she will be able to help you. Fear is the great mind-killer. I'm just lucky the girl I work with is fearless. Greg stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/925)
11:02:44
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi Ken, Thanks for your post, You recently wrote: > [big snip] But - I have seen individuals adapt > to their dysfunction and perform remarkable feats of psi. One such example is > a medium here on Long Island named George Anderson. George was diagnosed as > paranoid schizophrenic some years ago and claims to be able to communicate > with the dead. He is one of the most successful mediums in the country, > booked a year in advance, and collecting over $1500.00 per session. > > I'm not sure that George is really communicating with the dead, but he appears > to me to be one hell of a precognitive psychic, always knowing what questions > to ask and answers to give his clients. He seems to be intune with his > clients in every reading. > I have been meaning to read his book, but havn't > gotten around to it yet. > Would you be so kind as to give us George Anderson book's title and ISBN ? Sounds interesting. THX in advance, Jean-Luc stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: squeezeing stage4!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/926)
11:02:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Liam wrote: > So I am not getting a lot of practice. I find that I am > getting less specific information then I would if I was working on a regular > basis. As a student, I can verify this... if I have a gap of more than a week the momentum is lost. I am lucky enough to have a few friends with whom I practiced when we were untrained and just doing targets (the Nike: just do it method) and we have recently regrouped and are once again setting up target practice. So between practicing ERV, working with Paul in CRV, and working with the guys, I should be regaining some momentum and clarity. The discussion on the list with you and Gene and Lyn add a great deal of depth to the learning process I have experienced and I greatly appreciate the fact that you all take the time to do this. Shelia stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/927)
11:03:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi Bill and all; Liam here. Bill, Does this mean I have another convert for the Magic school of RV. Just to be fair, let me point out the Matrix theory of RV which says you are really not going to the site but to a matrix (accessible by the subconscious) where all information is stored. This would give you the experience of going to the black hole without being sucked in by the bloody thing. The matrix also explains how we can RV the past. Or you can join we Irish, say its magic and not worry about all the impossibilities. In case you choose the latter, I will enclose an application form to the Irish School of RV and a list of pubs in your area where we meet on a regular basis to discuss magic, the wee folk, and green eyed, virginal, Celtic maidens. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/928)
11:03:27
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi Liam, Thankyou very much Liam. I would love to join your club! I understand the Matrix principal, and thats why the quantum mechanical model appealed to me, because all particles must be in intimate contact at the quantum level ( althought we mundanes can't access that knowledge) for QM to work. HOWEVER, I question whether even a QM matrix could abstract knowledge out of a black hole. Maybe I can ask this on some physics site and report back with 10 different incompatible models, or more likely they will write me off as a nut pretending to have a Ph.D.. Also, can you get me onto some of those great Irish golf courses? The golf course is a great place to practice remote influencing things: the ball, your emotions, your oponents emotions. Friendly Leprechauns would help also. Best Regards, Bill stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Congrats for job on the List!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/929)
11:03:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hello Steve, I just wanted to say that I thought you did a great job as moderator. I knew this bunch would be very unruly. PJ only kept Gene in line by subdued flirting with him. I am especially sorry that Gene pulled that outrageous manuver to get back on. I hope you are now clear of his bull shit. On another tack, I never knew much about you Steve. Would you mind sharing with me a few facts about yourself: what you do for a living, are you married, how old you are, what brought you into psi research and what's your favorite area of psi. Anyway best wishes with your new projects. Best Regards! Bill stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Congrats for job on the List!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/930)
11:04:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Ahhh...gee...I made a boo boo...I thought you could get in trouble for flaming folks..especially if you used profanity and especially if you thought the offended party was not going to be able to see what was being said...gee..foolish me...thinking that there would not be dual standards on the....list one for the plebians and one for the PHDs...BTW..Bill...as I told you in a previous posting that you sent to me as personal note concerning you success in scoring with women on the net...I quote again what I told you then..."I do not use the net for dating purposes and resent any implication that I do..".no matter how lucky you claimed to be...gee Bill does you wife know about this... Gene... stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/931)
11:04:47
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
> Thanks for the URL I will look into it later today. By the way, what field > did you say you were in? Sounds to me like you are a very knowledgeable asset > to the list. > Thanks for the compliment Ken...I am glad to be here gleaning information also. I am a Computer Specialist and Technician by study and trade and aspiring to PhD candidacy. I work in a University environment, so being around doctors all day rubs off. I am interested in the field of Artificial Intelligence in Computer Science. One thing led to another ... now I am caught up in the psi phenomenon after becoming aquainted with Cognitive materials. I suppose I should have or should become a Cognitive Scientist after all this time since I have spent quite a bit of time and money researching the area to establish a knowledge base and apply for a doctorate program. I have ran into multi-discipline requirements to understand the mind. From Philosophy to Brain anatomy to Parapsychology on top of my professional requirement of keeping abreast with the ever changing computer technology. Remote Viewing has captured my interest and I figured well --- why not apply what I learn about consciousness to RV and make it a serious hobby. I am hoping to take the Lyn Buchanan school of RV someday once the cash rolls in and if he is available...., I have already surveyed (and presently looking into the Bevy's RV method) a couple of RV methods. I haven't subscribe to any particular one as yet, I am still very open. electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/932)
11:05:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
> Tell me, do you subscribe to the idea that we are actually operating from the > sub-conscious, thus the supra-conscious, instead of the consciousness level. > Meaning...that the consciousness, as the ego, filters information that is being > fed by the "lower" levels? Ken: I believe we operate primarily on the conscious level in terms of our physical awareness and interface with the conventional senses, but that thought is a parallel distributive process. All areas of the brain play a role in how we process the environment and our superficial awareness. I suspect that some areas of the brain are not in communication directly with our conscious awareness but are stimulated by association. We respond to our environment from a much deeper level all of the time. An example could be hunches or premonitions we experience while traveling. Some folks anticipate problems or danger and make adjustments while driving, or refuse to fly suddenly when they have never felt a sense of anxiety about doing so before. Some folks suddenly become aware that something has happened to a friend or family member some distance away, or will think of someone and the phone will ring and the person they were thinking of is on the line... It happens every day... In terms of evolution, I suspect we were much more precognitive in ancient times, relying more on our intuition and precognitive skills to find game, water, shelter etc... Those who demonstrated the ability to do so consistently became the tribal shaman or spiritual leader. Certainly skills, experience and conventional memory play a role. However, I can't help but think that our ancient ancestors were more intune with this process than we are, though they possessed much less in the way of critical thinking skills. We have, through rational processes, reduced our dependence on this function. We rely more on conventional memory, logic and science to survive rather than gut instinct, hunches and premonitions because the payoff is better. Electrix: I recently gleaned that there has been studies made whereby it takes >consciousness > a few seconds to process the data for the body to react...since, by conjecture, it >is "processing" information at that time that the sub-conscious is > delivering...this theory would fall neatly with your statement that we access > precognition "normally." Because paranormal experience is an activity relegated > in the supra and sub-conscious state which in turn is accessing non- locality. It > would also validate RV process in that we must get the "ego" out of the way or > keep it busy to allow the flow of data. What's your thought on this? Ken:Actually, I think we process the environment fairly quickly through our conventional senses and react to it in terms of reflexes but I suspect the future influences most decisions we make on a day to day basis to varying degrees. Much of the time we don't consciously project our decisions into the future on routine tasks, but we process the consequences of our decisions on a subconscious level all of the time and that is incorporated into our actions. We may be accessing nonlocal information by association all of the time, but our conscious and rational processes appear on the surface to direct most of the action. Electrix:Also, it doesn't surprise me that people that are considered to be >schizophrenic > or the like, would have paranormal activities. It is not unlike the minds of > geniuses...where there is a tread line between their "insanity" and "creativity" > and their source of inspiration generates --- the subsconscious made active. >> Ken:I don't know how much of that activity is potentially accurate psi and how much is random unconscious noise. Most appears to be unconscious noise rooted in the individuals self perception and self esteem. The ego conflict and self perceptions set the stage for the content of the hallucinations or delusions. In some cases I suspect it is a psi function or related to the same process which enables us to communicate non locally with points in the future. I know it seems like a stretch but I will keep thinking about it. Regards, Ken stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Rules
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/933)
11:05:56
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Dear Angela and list members, I obviously broke the new rules albeit by accident so in deference to getting the new list manager off to a quiet start, I will unsubscribe myself for a few weeks and see how it goes after that. To PJ: I apologize for saying that you had "subdued flirting" with Gene. Banish the thought. It was only a bad joke!. Best Wishes to all, Bill stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/934)
11:06:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
> Ken:I don't know how much of that activity is potentially accurate psi and how > much is random unconscious noise. Most appears to be unconscious noise rooted > in the individuals self perception and self esteem. The ego conflict and self > perceptions set the stage for the content of the hallucinations or delusions. > In some cases I suspect it is a psi function or related to the same process > which enables us to communicate non locally with points in the future. I know > it seems like a stretch but I will keep thinking about it. > Well..here is something to think about... I subject depriving himself of REM sleep would actually hallucinate and be deluded. Seems like there is a tendency for the subconscious level to take *prominence* over consciousness, in so doing we excluding consciousness as a filter and decision maker. We are also allowing the subconscious to resolve daily problems un-hindered by "logic." And as you might well know, occasionally we do come up with solutions the next mornings or exercise precognition during the night in dreams to solve future problems Some psychoanalyst theorize (sp) that during sleep we shut down the memory; thus awareness faculty, for "maintenance," while it leaves the subconscious to roam freely. But I would like to make a minor distinction that it doesn't "shut down." The process, it seems to me, is allowing the subconscious overlap forward and exercise its own inherent function by *disallowing* the consciousness logic *control* feature. Also, these researchers may not be factoring the aspect of memory cell. Certain sleep researchers comment that we "erase" whatever comes up in the memory while we sleep to allow for "maintenance" schedule, when in reality we ARE able to keep the dream information in our memory...especially during lucid dreaming recall. So there seems to be a conflict regarding this consciousness "shut down" theory. electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/935)
11:06:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
> Hi Bill and all; > Liam here. Bill, Does this mean I have another convert for the Magic school > of RV. Just to be fair, let me point out the Matrix theory of RV which says > you are really not going to the site but to a matrix (accessible by the > subconscious) where all information is stored. This would give you the > experience of going to the black hole without being sucked in by the bloody > thing. The matrix also explains how we can RV the past. Or you can join we > Irish, say its magic and not worry about all the impossibilities. > Yes...I can understand that we are parsing data to the consciousness stream... but it would seem that because of the possibility to bi-locate, there would be a stream of abnormal emotions and perceptions related to being sucked in to the Hole, no? If it is the case...Bill's concern for the mechanic of how that would work in a Quantum framework would be curious. Although, frankly, I don't think it has much to do with Quantum theory at this point since the Black Hole operates at a macro activity where the Laws of Physics are considerably different than the sub particle quantum world. To put it more secularly, I would think that there would be a magnitude of mental distortion effect if one was to bi-locate in the Black Hole. Of course, this would open-up a can of worms that RVing something dangerous can ultimately affects one's health. Is this possible? electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re-submission:What it feels like
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/936)
11:07:34
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
> Ken:I don't know how much of that activity is potentially accurate psi and how > much is random unconscious noise. Most appears to be unconscious noise rooted > in the individuals self perception and self esteem. The ego conflict and self > perceptions set the stage for the content of the hallucinations or delusions. > In some cases I suspect it is a psi function or related to the same process > which enables us to communicate non locally with points in the future. I know > it seems like a stretch but I will keep thinking about it. > [PLEASE NOTE: I had to resubmit this reply since the former one was incoherent, sorry about that, I sent it prematurely] Well..here is something to think about... A subject, depriving himself of a considerable amount of REM sleep, would actually hallucinate and be deluded during his day activity. Thus, it seems like there is a tendency for the subconscious state to take *prominence* over consciousness, and in so doing , excludes consciousness as a filter and decision maker during that sleepless period. This would mean that there is a tremendous need for the subconscious to be active. In doing so, the subconscious can occasionally resolves daily problems un-hindered by "logic" of consciousness. And as you might well know, this is validated by the fact that we occasionally *do* come-up with solutions the next mornings or exercise precognition during the night in dreams to solve future problems Some psychoanalyst theorize (sp) that during sleep we shut down the memory; thus awareness faculty, for "maintenance," while it leaves the subconscious to roam freely. But I would like to make a minor distinction that it doesn't "shut down." The process, it seems to me, it's allowing the subconscious to overlap forward and exercise its own inherent function by *disallowing* the consciousness logic *control* feature. Also, these researchers may be incorrectly factoring aspect of memory cell retention. Certain sleep researchers comment that we easily "erase" whatever detail memory we have of dreams as soon as we wake up in the morning and are thus not kept in long-term memory. They suggest that the memory cells have a tendency to "forget" to keep up with the "maintenance" schedule on brain activity or to proctect the psyche, when apparently ---if properly trained to be conscious of our dream (lucid dreaming),--- we ARE able to keep the dream information in our long term memory. So there seems to be a conflict regarding this consciousness "shut down" and memory erasure theory...,or perhaps, something I don't quite grasp. In any case, to get to my point...the subconscious seems to want to play a role as an active element...either as a psi impulse or at night time when we rest the analytical mind. electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: Congrats for job on the List!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/937)
11:08:22
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Gene, take a valium if you need to and chill out. This is exactly the kind of response that caused the original problems, and if you can not see the difference between your response and Bill's you have really lost your perspective. If you feel the need to attack me now because I have just said the Emperor has no clothes, go for it. For an email post to generate such a survival attack response you must be in horrendous pain, and I hope it subsides soon. I will be sending you lots of love and hope you feel better. You have so much value to share and this kind of reply is getting in the way. I really value your knowledge and experience and contribution to our country, you have given so much, but your posts the last few week are much more vehement than your normally charming but in your face replies which most times I found amusing.. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. Aloha Yaana Curran2106@... wrote: > Ahhh...gee...I made a boo boo...I thought you could get in trouble for flaming > folks..especially if you used profanity and especially if you thought the > offended party was not going to be able to see what was being > said...gee..foolish me...thinking that there would not be dual standards on > the....list one for the plebians and one for the PHDs...BTW..Bill...as I told > you in a previous posting that you sent to me as personal note concerning you > success in scoring with women on the net...I quote again what I told you > then..."I do not use the net for dating purposes and resent any implication > that I do..".no matter how lucky you claimed to be...gee Bill does you wife > know about this... > Gene... stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Crap.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/938)
11:09:10
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Angela why did you let all the crap from bill p go thru?? and yanna.?? Genes south sea belle??? hehehehe ding-a-ling ding dong. You damn, damn well know gene was still subscribed... well hell sleep well. I give friggin up. Ya know, the few of you that feed, really make me sick. ERVing has turned into some sick hormonal ahhhh excuse me, ....Gene, ... sensual (sexy?) side show. Great. And I am starting to teach this, I have 2 students s now?? what the hell am I passing on?? a freakin curse? Perhaps it's best I stick to my roots. Robert Monroe... he never, never, ever made a pass at me.... neeeeeeeever even thought it. I think I will go home to Skip and Joe. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: target/Bevy J
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/939)
11:09:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
If anyone is going to go against the target I submitted, please use your learned methods as in any other case. As you know, my personal training methods and learned protocols or techniques may or may not differ from those formerly taught via SRI and in military programs. I have absolutely no disagreement with any of these. Whatever works for you, use it. Please do utilize the methods you have learned, just as I do. :) Bevy J stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re-submission:What it feels like
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/940)
11:20:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
<< A subject, depriving himself of a considerable amount of REM sleep, would actually hallucinate and be deluded during his day activity. Thus, it seems like there is a tendency for the subconscious state to take *prominence* over consciousness, and in so doing , excludes consciousness as a filter and decision maker during that sleepless period. This would mean that there is a tremendous need for the subconscious to be active. In doing so, the subconscious can occasionally resolves daily problems un-hindered by "logic" of consciousness. And as you might well know, this is validated by the fact that we occasionally *do* come-up with solutions the next mornings or exercise precognition during the night in dreams to solve future problems I suspect that deja-vu is what happens when we find ourselves in a situation we have dreamt in detail before. You are probably on the right track but it appears that the conscious mind does not commit to conscious memory the vast majority of dreams we have each night. We dream for hours with each dream lasting for no more than a few minutes. We don't remember the overwhelming majority of these. We only remember the last dream(s) we had before we awake. The rest are unconscious and only present themselves in the form of deja-vu or thoughts by association. Some psychoanalyst theorize (sp) that during sleep we shut down the memory; thus awareness faculty, for "maintenance," while it leaves the subconscious to roam freely. But I would like to make a minor distinction that it doesn't "shut down." The process, it seems to me, it's allowing the subconscious to overlap forward and exercise its own inherent function by *disallowing* the consciousness logic *control* feature. Also, these researchers may be incorrectly factoring aspect of memory cell retention. Certain sleep researchers comment that we easily "erase" whatever detail memory we have of dreams as soon as we wake up in the morning and are thus not kept in long-term memory. They suggest that the memory cells have a tendency to "forget" to keep up with the "maintenance" schedule on brain activity or to proctect the psyche, when apparently ---if properly trained to be conscious of our dream (lucid dreaming),--- we ARE able to keep the dream information in our long term memory. So there seems to be a conflict regarding this consciousness "shut down" and memory erasure theory...,or perhaps, something I don't quite grasp. Lucid dreams seem to occur in a hypnogogic or hypnopompic state when we are on the verge of awakening, and as such they are retained in our accessible memory. I have had numerous dreams in such states and was aware that I was dreaming. As soon as I become aware of the dream I wake up and can't control them. Wish I could. It would be interesting to see where they lead. In any case, to get to my point...the subconscious seems to want to play a role as an active element...either as a psi impulse or at night time when we rest the analytical mind. >> Agreed, we are functioning on numerous levels at all times. Unconscious and conscious. The collaboration of the conscious and the unconscious creates the stage for all of our decisions. Regards, Ken stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: target 'form'
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/941)
11:20:39
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Jean Luc: I will gladly send you an example of the official RV Form the Psi Squad uses now and since our inception in 71 . Unlike Dr. Radin's or other 'forms' it has no 'fill-in' blanks other than the name of viewer, coordinates, date, etc. sorry. If you will get out your Manual and look at the extra sheet COMMAND QUESTION RESPONSE you will find specifics of that type. If you have misplaced it, please let me know and I will send one to France along with the RV Form. Bevy J PS: Am doing Sightings tomorrow 8/13 stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: RV and altered states Q..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/942)
11:20:54
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Tao sk8tr imho and experience, precognition does not necessarily 'happen' only during dreams and/or altered states. In my own work in learning to use these things I found that the most major piece of work was to recognize that we just have never understood what 'time' is as an artifact. (I know I know, we did a lot of work on what 'time' is ;)) It is true that we must live within a framework of some kind, but to all appearances, there is little or no separation between present/past/future to the human mind. It may be that during dream states some persons are more able to perceive this lack of separation. Bevy J stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re:One more thing!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/943)
11:21:21
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Gene, You really did yourself a misservice with what youve been posting now. I NEVER boasted of any conquests on the net! The one comment I made to you was man/man in privacy when I TRIED to make friends with you and bury the hatchet when I found out you were so ill. It was only made as a means of making contact on mutual grounds and went something like "there are really a lot of attractive women on this list". Strickly pub talk between guys and supposed to be private. Pathetic! Furthermore, my lovely wife would not mind the minor amount of flirting I did do, rather she would congratulate my taste. I do not want this to continue to disturb the discussion of various psi topics so I will unsubscribe now for a couple of weeks and then resubscribe if Angela approves. Again, best to all Bill stargate : Message: [stargate]
Dream Memory Events
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/944)
11:21:35
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
> You are probably on the right track but it > appears that the conscious mind does not commit to conscious memory the vast > majority of dreams we have each night. We dream for hours with each dream > lasting for no more than a few minutes. We don't remember the overwhelming > majority of these. We only remember the last dream(s) we had before we awake. > The rest are unconscious and only present themselves in the form of deja-vu or > thoughts by association. Hmmmm...this is of course, we don't resort to to artificial access of buried memories. I am under the assumption that in the abyss of our mind we keep an accurate record of the event but our conscious mind deems it necessary to "forget." This seems to be more in your sphere of discipline. Do we retain that potential to remember all dreams whether through hypnosis or psychoanalytical association? Or do you believe we permanently erase dreams we "forget"? It also makes me wonder if --- with a tool like RV --- we can stream data from a person's dream events. A bit abstract, I suppose...but I do believe if we can RV the mythology of a culture...why not dreams. Not sure how a target like that could be setup. Can any of you Pro RVing jocks help me out here? electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Physical Inclemencies
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/945)
11:21:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
I'm with Monika: I have never found backaches, headaches (not migraine) or other physical problems to be a hindrance to remote viewing. The only 'hindrance' encountered within my experience and that of my group and trainees over the years seems to be liquor (sorry if stepping on Irish toes:) ) and some kinds of drugs ranging from antihistamines to other prescription drugs. Bevy J U.S.PsiSquad stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: International RV-spy List
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/946)
11:22:04
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Jean Luc: lol If there WAS such a List you'd have to be a graduate Rv'er to gain access to it...which could only be done by Rv'ing, which can only be done by...... So you see? No List. ;) Bevy J stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/947)
11:22:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Right Dirk: There was a good deal of talk and coverage about it in the Scientific Press much prior to the seventies,actually in the very early sixties, which is what originally caused me to become interested in doing articles about it, which is what stimulated me to try some of the techniques myself, and finally to begin the learning curve. The references can be found in the Library. Ostrander and Schroeder began their first book Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain in, I believe 67. Also, Drs Tart, Puthoff, Targ and Radin should be able to confirm that. Bevy J stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: RV and altered states Q..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/948)
11:22:41
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
> It is true that we must live within a framework of some kind, but to all > appearances, there is little or no separation between present/past/future to > the human mind. It may be that during dream states some persons are more able > to perceive this lack of separation. > Bevy J BINGO!!!....dream state ignores 'time' altogether. In fact we experience time dilation. What seems like a few minute to the outside world is hours of dreaming for me. A most native state of consciousness. I have also notice this "lack of separation" in kids up to 2 years old...where the label "tomorrow" is not understood since they are closer to the native state. Or as I understand it, dogs for example, view everything from the instance of the moment. Is like everything is happening in each and new unit of time ... judging from their enthusiastic behavior when they don't see their master for a length of time. And as we know...kids are more predisposed to psi ability. Somewhat unrelated to the above paragraph...I recently tested a 10 year old by fronloading her with a photo. I asked her to quickly describe to me things about the person in the photo. She proceeded to rattle on ..real quick with no hesitancy as I encouraged her. Majority of the things she said match with the scenario of what the person was going through in the person's life or the character of the person as I know the person to be or situation that was occurring in that person's life. Utterly AMAZING! P.S. I am presently being boggled by the thought that the NOW (present) is illusive in that we are changing (movement) continually in the into the future. Hardly a discrete phenomena. In our mind, of course, we choose to "freeze" the moment. electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Sightings...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/949)
11:22:55
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
USPsiSquad@... wrote: > J > PS: Am doing Sightings tomorrow 8/13 > At what time PST time? electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/950)
11:23:13
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
electrix. We (the Squad) have not found a problem with Rv'ing 'dangerous' people, places or things. They are ugly, unpleasant,really frightening, sickening, disgusting sometimes but do not affect our reality, for whatever reason. We are observers sort of like the 'probe' droid in SW. :) but can also apply the main physical senses which is another prop to the thought that these 'senses' are NOT AT ALL physical. And we can 'go in' and 'come out' at will. I, like you, have always grappled with the science/magic framework, only because there are some things that go bump in the night and we still don't know what they are. It is the constant pursuit of them that fascinates us, right? (And, only one of us, apparently, likes to luxuriate in black hole territory... :)) ) Bevy J PS: I think you are already in Cognitive Science, my good friend.... :) stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re-submission:What it feels like
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/951)
11:23:36
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
btw that Listserv.az.edu url did not work. Did I do it wrong? B.J. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Sightings...
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/952)
11:23:45
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
7 pm pacific coast time, 9 pm central 10 pm east coast I think :) Bevy J stargate : Message: [stargate]
up late?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/953)
11:23:58
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electrix: lol what on earth is 'Bevy RV' ? lol Should it be BRV? Either you are up late answering me or I am up late answering you. Whatever.. . I tried to include all I have experienced about 'time' in my Course, and in more detail in my new book (with comments from others) I ran up against this problem early on, and for six years of viewing present and past still thought you could not rv the future until I tried it once. Then I knew it was all the same. What a revelation! Mind-blower! Oh gosh! As I was quoted on ArtBell a week or so ago "time, space and thought are all the same thing" It's nice to hear yourself quoted, even if the quotee didn't remember where he heard that!....:) lol It (time) is elastic. What do you mean 'dilation'? same thing? We can return again and again to the few moments before a homicide victim dies. THAT is 'frozen' We do not go forward beyond that moment, but it took a good many years to discover that a homicide victim, dying, is ANGRY. (no matter what other emotions are going on) That's another conundrum... Bevy J Then, too, you must remember that when I began this study in the early 60's I also said 'you can't turn psi on and off like a light switch' ANOTHER 'wrongism'... But at that time, that's what I thought to be true. We can only come to conclusions about things we have experienced over time, thought about, questioned about and concluded about..... lol ;) stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Crap.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/954)
11:24:27
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These guys will never grow up. If they have nothing real to bitch about they make up stuff.... what the hell is this supposed to be about??? With the HRVG online group starting up.. I do not have time for this kind of "crap". I had hoped that the group would become self policing, but everyone is so afraid of becoming a target, they encourage bad behavior by not calling it want it is. Their silence is seen as agreement, oh the Emperor's new clothes are so wondrous. To speak up when someone is obviously out of line does not mean you have to flame them, but it does mean you have to have the courage to speak up. Please unsubscribe me. Aloha Yaana stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: up late?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/955)
11:24:40
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Yeah...up late and about to go home....I am at the office... Well Bevy...you should go for it --- BRV it is! By "dilation" I mean the common description we use in the the language to describe the phenomena of time a la Einstein. Of course, I am of the same belief as yours per your Course. And just to add Tabasco Sauce to your 'time' revelation...Aristotle, Plato and Immanuel Kant would agree with your concept of time. These guys proposed that 'time' is just a reference. It took Einstein to drive the idea home by introducing the General Theory of Relativity to make it obvious that 'time' is a matter a of viewpoint when we introduce distance. I mean... it boggles the mind to think that looking beyond several light years into space we are "experiencing" the past and likewise, the light-year *being* is looking into our future! electrix stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Einstein and fountain pens
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/956)
11:25:24
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Electrix As a confirmed (confused) Einsteinian, I have to agree that he seems to have been right in almost everything he said, although the QT guys lately are questioning some of it. lol Oh well, no target is ever put up except to be 'shot' at... Right? Bevy J BTW: Since we are 'baring' ourselves as to what we 'do' I am a journalist by trade, columnist, features writer, photo-journalist, antiques writer for ATW, short storyist, and- 'gulp'- poet. I have a large family, a bird feeder, a fountain, a weird sense of humor (welsh) and have been very happily married for lo these many long years. ;) I am also a fountain pen historian, (real wet ink pens, guys) and am completing my two dozenth book which is on antique inkwells, fountain pens and truly quaint office equipment of the no-deodorant, no-air conditioning days, for Landmark. In my spare time (hah) I do terrible art in acrylics, read millions of books (mostly on psychology,biography, history and criminal behaviors)while squinting, lovingly repair cranky old fountain pens and do what is laughingly called 'gardening'. (brown thumb type) The really spare time is spent in the Psi Squad. I am a Licensed P.I. Lecturing and teaching PSI and Motivation. (definitely not the same thing) ;) Okay let's the rest of ya tell yer story... stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: ERV
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/957)
11:26:00
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Please excuse me for jumping in..but you appear to have so much to offer your students, it would be a tragic loss for them as well as for ERV. >> ......I am using your post anonymously. I hope you dont mind. Listen to me,ERV is NOTHING more than an altered state. Repeat, NOTHING more than an altered state. (an altered state for viewing the physicall- nonphysical universe)There is nothing more to an altered state than what you put into it, or how you view this state. When we shift out view, when we become more true essence, naturally we become more AWARE of our energy or what we really (reality) are. Energy vortexes open up. You will feel this during your cloud breathing. Our base chakra opens, our root chakra, our connection our oneness to Tara. (earth). Why heck this feels grand, this feels free, this feels loving. Some would refer to it as sensual, going as far as to say (by the way this is bringing it back to physical) sex-y. That is their point of view, it is one point of view. ERV does not need to become erotic. It is simply an altered state. I consider my self to be a decent viewer. Very much a rookie, but I know where open base chakras, open chakras in general, can lead too. I can go into an altered state, view a target, nail it, be one with the universe, and never even think of an orga**. Also your choice of garmets, or lack of during an ERV session or training, does not matter a hill o beans. my two cents... ~T~ stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: Re-submission:What it feels like
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/958)
11:26:24
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<< btw that Listserv.az.edu url did not work. Did I do it wrong? >> B J, I think it's listserv@... Ken stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/959)
11:26:43
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<< I'm not sure that George is really communicating with the dead, but he appears > to me to be one hell of a precognitive psychic, always knowing what questions > to ask and answers to give his clients. Would you be so kind as to give us George Anderson book's title and ISBN ? Sounds interesting. >> I would like to add a disclaimer here... I have not read his books and have been intending to secondary to the rave reviews he has gotten from an acquaintance of mine locally here on Long Island. Personally I'm a major skeptic when it comes to mediums but I have seen video demonstrations of George's readings and he does know how to work his clients pretty well. There are apparently three books out which are attributed to George Anderson. They are entitled: WE DO NOT DIE WE ARE NOT FORGOTTEN OUR CHILDREN FOREVER From what I understand George lives in Lindenhurst on Long Island and came to my attention through an acquaintance who attempted to contact his mother through him. I'm not a believer in mediums or spiritualism, but I find his popularity interesting after all of the debunking of mediums and spiritualism well over half a century ago. His accuracy in working his clients may be due to a precognitive knowledge of what his clients will tell him as opposed to conversing with their deceased relatives??? Ken stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/960)
11:27:04
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>> To put it more secularly, I would think that there would be a magnitude of >> mental distortion effect if one was to bi-locate in the Black Hole. Of course, >> this would open-up a can of worms that RVing something dangerous can >> >> >> ultimately affects one's health. Is this possible? Wait a minute! As a Humble Know-Nothing, I was under the impression that bilocation was not involved in RV. Or is it involved in ERV but not CRV? Can someone straighten this out? -- John Burke stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/961)
11:27:25
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>.........I will enclose an application form to the >Irish School of RV and a list of pubs in your area where we meet on a >regular basis to discuss magic, the wee folk, and green eyed, virginal, >Celtic maidens. I don't know about reincarnation (not trying to start another topic), but I have always thought that a soul once born Irish must be Irish forever, no matter where it winds up again. This Irish soul has, in this lifetime, wound up a graduate of the O'Newton school (Logic based on the principle of, "See what works, then if it works, let's not just do it, let's make a rule about it and try to look smart". Therefore, I would feel like a traitor to the alma mater if I applied for membership in the strictly Irish school. Maybe next incarnation. But if you'd care to send that list of pubs and maidens..... Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: No real target
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/962)
11:29:24
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At 07:28 PM 8/12/98 +0200, you wrote: >What happens to the RV'er when s/he is trying to view >a target that doesn't exist? (snip) >I once tried to RV a simple drawing which a friend >of mine assured me he had taped on his door. But >in reality he had just forgotten to do this. >While 'viewing' the only thing I got was an angry feeling. Often, that's what happens. It also happens to me when someone is "tasking a lie". That is, tasking something which doesn't exisst, just to "see how good you are". In the military unit, one Director once had all the viewers do a target which he said was urgent and of top importance. 4 of the 6 viewers got "the attack on Pearl Harbor" (and a lot of confusion as to why they got that). He called the viewers together and ranted and raved, threatened us with punishment if we gave him "...any more of the s&^t", and then proceeded to work us every day for the next 26 days on the urgent target. At the end of it, he gave us the feedback. The target was an article about the attack on Pearl Harbor. When we challenged him on it, he smiled and replied, "If you were REALLY psychic, you would have known I was lying." Needless to say, the damage he did to the unit that day was just about irrepairable. We suffered a lot under that director. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Back to Star Gate : Thanks
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/963)
11:29:39
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> I am anxiously awaiting your poster! I think it is a great idea. Do you >know approximately when it will be available? Thanks. I have seen Angela's poster, and can tell you that it is an awesome work. A LOT of work and effort have gone into it, and I, too, am waiting to get a copy. Any news when it will come out? Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/964)
11:30:02
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>Thankyou for your reply. OK strike the word ERV. I understand that you >hate to see specific terms get generalized into practically >everything...but I think you need a nomenclature meeting or something. >Many, perhaps most of the people "viewing" on this site are not using a >monitor, yet persist in calling their viewing some kind of RV. In this >case I mean Perseiving a Target with Psi during an LD. How about calling >it a "PTPLD". Then there could be MNWYWUITMRV (Making Notes When You Wake Up In The Morning Remote Viewing, and ....... :-} I think that a nomenclature meeting is definitely in order, but don't think it would do any good. The original jumping on the bandwagon for using the term "remote viewing" came about mainly from the scientific acceptance of the term, and then a lot of people wanting to use it to get a little of that scientific acceptance to rub off on what they were doing. Now, before that gets people angry, let me say that most people nowadays aren't trying to do that, but have just accepted the term as the modern term for "being psychic". The term "remote viewing" has already been generalized to the point where it means so many things that it no longer has a meaning. I don't mind that. (Well, actually, I do mind, but....) What I really feel is sad is the fact that the other terms have been abandoned in the process. It makes us lose a lot of the richness of diversity we once had in this field. I have had people send me their business cards and letter, stating that they are "crystal ball remote viewers", "aura remote viewers", "palm remote viewers", etc. I had one woman send me a message saying that she had uncovered an ancient form of remote viewing which her grandmother used to do. To do it, you start by having someone drink a cup of tea which was made by leaving the tea leaves in the cup. Then, when there are only the leaves left..... etc. Believe it or not, she called it TLRV (Tea Leaf Remote Viewing). Aside from losing a richness of diversity language-wise, there is also the fact that a lot of research and development has been done concerning such things as "scrying", "aura reading", "palmestry", etc. These things were mostly developed through the "Irish school" of seeing what works and what doesn't. They existed because people found out that, in some way or another, they worked. A lot of human history has gone into them. Now, all that history and back knowledge tends to get ignored because we aren't willing to say the words, any more. We don't have to dump the term "guided imagery" and call it "ERV" just because you get images in ERV. "Guided imagery" should not be a socially unacceptable term. It is a great information gathering tool in itself. What sensible mechanic would throw one wrench out of his toolkit just because he got another one? He won't. He'll keep the old one, no matter how rusty and bent, simply because he knows that one day, there'll be that job that the new one won't do, but the old one will. We don't have to be ashamed to say the old words. Those words stood for some really great and really reliable things. Not everything has to be one kind of "remote viewing" or another. ERV and Lucid Dreaming ARE NOT the same. The two can be tasked against different things, they have their different strengths and weaknesses, and they are done differently. If you know that, you can study the two differently, and come up with TWO tools, where you previously had only one. What a loss if we try to toss one or the other aside because of semantics. I tried casting runes once, and was astounded by the effectiveness of it. Why does it work? Who knows. There is probably a scientific reason concerning the subconscious mind's control of the stones in such a way as to...... etc. I don't care! It worked! I got some valuable information that I wouldn't have gotten through CRV, ERV, or any of the other 18 accepted and formalized forms of "_RV". (Don't ask, Jean Luc - I can't find the list anywhere. When I find it, I'll post it.) So is rune-casting magic? Again, who cares! I got the information! Should we then make up "Runes RV"? No need to. "Casting runes" worked! I'm all for keeping it as is. I'm afraid that, in the drive to make everything acceptable to the Newtonian school, the Irish school is losing students. That's a shame, because the Irish school was here long before Newton ever got beaned on the head with that apple. I just don't want to see us lose our rich heritage of albeit-Irish-school research so we can jump onto some modern bandwagon and make everything some kind of scientific sounding "RV". I have often felt that one of the drawbacks to the scientific acceptance of "RV" is that we have turned our eyes away from - and are losing - some of the "magic". Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: What It Feels Like/Einstein and Fountain Pens
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/965)
11:30:17
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Electrix and Bevy J, I had asked Electrix to tell me a little about what he does and neglected to explain myself so... I'm an RN living on Long Island. I work on a 24 bed acute psychiatric unit at a local medical center. I've been in nursing for about 18 years with experience in medical-surgical, emergency work in the field with paramedics, and geriatrics. My last job prior to returning to inpatient nursing recently was as a regional director of consumer affairs for the New York State Office of Mental Health. I got into nursing upon the recommendation of our flight surgeon while in Naval R&D in the 70's. I was involved in operations, administration, communications, and aviation safety which involved aircraft accident/incident investigations. I've been experiencing precognition since 1969 and developed my own little hypothesis in non-local communication between the present and future which gives the appearance that we are seeing the future by association in a kind of parallel spacetime. I had no idea that others were working on the same thing as I was only 14 and had no education in physics. After I had been there and done that I lost interest until all of the events and policy changes I had predicted in the military began to come to pass. It was during the late seventies that I had read a DIA brief regarding the Ft. Meade unit and selection of personnel for the research studies, but I did not grasp the full intent of the message at that time. Later, in 1983, I had attempted to contact SRI regarding the Marine Expeditionary Force in Beirut on the recommendation of a friend who worked for SRI but was stonewalled due to the sensitive nature of the research and their source of funding. It wasn't until 1992 that Robert Jahn and Brenda Dunne at PEAR told me about the projects at SRI and sent me their data on RV studies which they had conducted in the 80's at Princeton. Since then I have been following psi and consciousness research as a hobby. I avoid reading the newspaper and watching the news because I inevitably make projections regarding outcomes of situations which I have no control over and no input into. After years of being frustrated making accurate predictions re: events and not being able to do anything with the information, I stopped beating my head against the wall. It certainly does feel better now.... I'm more interested in figuring out how it works as opposed to doing it. Best Regards, Ken stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Who's who
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/966)
11:30:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Dear Angela, You recently wrote: > Jean-Luc, you may remember from the Inner Vision Course that I am > working on a Who's Who is Remote Viewing organizational chart and > eventually I will make this into a poster format. Oh yes, I remember it well (and I've even the draft your [August 2nd, 1997] "Remote Viewing family tree. Who's who in RV" under my eyes).You did a great job ! I really hope you put it in a poster format some day and sincerely recommend it to our friends on this list. > Currently, it just has > U.S. names and organizations but would be happy to add international > information. Can you help me here [snip]? > > Kind regards > Angela You're a friend Angela and, as you know, I'll give you a hand with pleasure if I can help. So, sorry if my first suggestion concerns yet the US names and organizations ;-) Have you already had a contact with Beverly Jaegers and the US Psi Squad, from St-Louis (Missouri) ? She leads, in a very creative way [close from you do], a very well-designed course in remote viewing and has a still expanding experience with her squad in the assistance to crime solving by RVing. Bevy and the US Psi Squad, have definitely, **from my point of view**, a place somewhere in your who's who. Warm regards Jean-Luc stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/967)
11:31:05
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
>Wait a minute! As a Humble Know-Nothing, I was under the impression that >bilocation was not involved in RV. Or is it involved in ERV but not CRV? >Can someone straighten this out? > Hi all; Liam here. IMO opinion you do not bilocate, at least not in this physical world. In CRV, it feels to me as if the signal line comes to me. You pick up a lot of feeling from the site, some wonderful, some really nasty. But I do not believe you bi-locate. In ERV, the signal line feels the same, only it seems to me it is stronger, the signal line not the accuracy of the information or the clarity of the perceptions. I think because of the altered state that the line just feels stronger. I do not believe you bilocate in ERV at least not in the same physical world. Being a card carrying member of the Irish School, I have no proof for what I am going to say, nor do I need any (its magic). Sometimes, it seems to me, in ERV, that your physic or essence or what the hell ever, goes to the site location, but not the site location in this world but to the site in some psychic world, which is a shadow or reflection of this reality (boy Liam you are getting a little far out. Aw wot the hey tis just me theory, sez myself to I, there being no one else present during this brilliant conversation). This is why I love outbound targets, where you can go to the site physically a few minutes after viewing it in ERV. You will recognize the site, but you also recognize the subtle shade of difference. Thinks "look" different Something's do not show up in one of the worlds. Also left and right and north and south quite frequently flip thought. I am not saying this is what happens, but I offer it as one possibility. I really do not think about it to much (leave that to my Newtonian friends). Bottom line is it is magic and I just need to work on getting my incantations right and learning new ones. slainte May the force be with you It was a woman, who first drove me to drink. And I never had the decency to write and thank her. ( W. C. Fields) Liam stargate : Message: [stargate]
Newbie Glitch
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/968)
11:31:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Within the past few days another, unrelated, list got spammed and the list members received 275 identical messages. Consequently some of the Stargate message got through to the list unmoderated. Unfortunately, it was during this time that Bill's letter to Steve got on the list (Bill did try to reroute the post) and it was reacted to quite unfavorably. I just got back from reading the archives and was saddened at what I read. Please go to the archives and reread Steve's post about list ettiquette. Further posts that are abusive or offensive will be returned to the sender. Bill, if you can remember to post your personal comments to the appropriate person rather than to the list, you are welcome back on. Kind regards Angela Thompson Smith stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/969)
11:32:04
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
At 22:58 13/08/98 +0200, Liam wrote: >This is why I love outbound targets, where you can >go to the site physically a few minutes after viewing it in ERV. Does this mean on active service, hypothetically speaking of course, you could actually rv a mission, to go and see what you are going to do. Could you see yourself doing it.....umm....ooer. BTW, if my question sounds dippy hippy. I don't care. I'm celebrating my 7 year (sobriety) re-birthday today. And telling the world, cos, I'm so bloody proud of my Self. So, sliding slowly off the chair, Here's to next year.... Ch e e r s........ hic.........hhhhic, goofy grin, MaryD stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/970)
11:32:33
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi Mary and all; Liam here Sorry Mary, I should have explained what I met by outbound target. I will belatedly do that now. The target takes thre people. A Viewer, a monitor, and the outbound person. None of the three know what the target is. They do know the time. For example 1500 hours. The viewer and the monitor prepare to work the site at 1400 hours. The monitor tells the viewer the site is the location of Ralph (or what eve the outbound person's name is) at 1500. The viewer then attempts to view where Ralph will be at 1500 (one hour in the future). Ralph meanwhile is driving around. Or in Jolly old london, walking or riding the tram o whatever. At about 1445 Ralph picks a site at andom (you can use random number generators or whatever. I just pick a bloody site and go there). Ralph goes to the site at 1500 hours and interacts with the site for a period of time. He then returns to the viewer and monitor and takes the voewer to the site. The viewer gets immediate feedback on the site and if he/she/you were working ERV you can see how the site looks in the "real" wrld after seeing in the ERV world. Congratulations Mary on 7 Years. That is absolutelu fantastic. I know you did it one day at a time. This is another reason I believe in magic. One day without John Barlycorn is a mircle. To string 365 days times 7 years is not only a miricle....It is magic. I am very proud of you. Keep coming back.You know I am about three weeks older than you. I will be off the ne for about 72 hours. I am going to a Convention up in Tiel Holland. stargate : Message: [stargate]
RE: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/971)
11:32:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi Mary, Congratulations to your 7th Sobriety-Birthday! That's really great and I am happy with you. Love Monika stargate : Message: [stargate]
[Stargate] Joe McMoneagle
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/972)
11:33:04
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I talked to Joe day before yesterday to get an update on his health. After initially getting out of the hospital, he had to go back in for a few days because of bleeding into his lungs, but he is once again out and feeling fine. I will be visiting with him next Tuesday, and can give you another update then. He sounds really good on the phone. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/973)
11:33:24
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At 01:21 PM 8/13/98 EDT, John Burke wrote: >Wait a minute! As a Humble Know-Nothing, I was under the impression that >bilocation was not involved in RV. Or is it involved in ERV but not CRV? >Can someone straighten this out? I can answer as far as CRV's definiton of "bilocation" is concerned. Almost everyone that I've talked to has a different one, to suit their own discipline. This is for CRV, though: Ingo Swann defined "bilocation" as that time when you buy so thoroughly into the mental "mini virtual reality" that you start paying attention to only those impulses coming from your subconscious, and totally ignore those sensory impulses coming from your body. You feel like you are suddenly "THERE!!!" Ed Dames, having never had such an experience, began teaching that "bilocation" means any time you are sitting in session getting impressions from "out there". Therefore, according to Ed, any time you have site contact, you are "bilocating". This is quite a bit different from what Ingo teaches. However, that started an erroneous definition in people's minds about CRV's bilocation, and it is hard to get rid of. The "bilocation" experience (a la Ingo) is tremendous! It has happened to me 9 times over the last 16 years of viewing, and it is phenomenal! It is also something which, the harder you try to make it happen, the less likely it is to happen. Therefore, it sneaks up on you when you least expect it. To hopefully put an argument to rest before it starts --- CRV's BILOCATION IS NOT THE SAME AS OOBE!!! There are not only big experiential differences, but there are also some capability differences. For example, in an OOBE, you can go through walls, etc. In (specifically CRV's) "bilocation" experience, you can't. It is just like being there. You can get hit and hurt, you can touch (but not move) things, etc. OOBE is very prone to analogous perception, where CRV's "bilocation" isn't. There are other differences, and they have been logged and documented, so PLEASE, let's not get into an argument about CRV's bilocation and OOBE being the same thing. If someone argues that, they have probably had an OOBE, but I can bet you for certain that they haven't had a >>>specifically CRV<<< "bilocation" experience. The two are different things, can be used as different tools, can be tasked for different types of information, etc. 'nuff said. Surprisingly enough, Ingo teaches that the "bilocation" experience in CRV is a bad thing and should be avoided, if possible. Monitors are supposed to catch the viewer who is going into a bilocation experience and tell them a joke, ask them about their family, their car, or do something to pull them out of it. The reason is that when you are in one of those states, you don't report what you are getting. Then, you come back and have to summarize things. CRV isn't about summarizing - it is about controlled access of information and details. While I love the experience, I have to agree with him. The summarizing of what you've just experienced always loses a LOT. It is much more effective and productive to plod along with the structure, getting one detailed impression after another.... (yawn) In the end, you have to decide what you're in all this for. If it's the information, then a CRVer would stay out of the bilocation experience. If it's a practice target, no lives are at stake, and you're there for the sheer joy of doing it, go for it. Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: ALERT!- Trouble with Stargate TURNOVER!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/974)
11:33:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Angela Thompson has not been able to do ANY moderation! She was SPAMMED from one of her other list sites and has been crashed at both the Las Vegas site and also somehow from STARGATE itself! A TROUT IN THE MILK! Some timing. Please understand the situation she's in. She's trying to dig out of the problem and can only reach ARCHIVES from STARGATE at present. Let's all give our support. Angela will moderate as an INDEPENDANT RV moderator as soon as the problem is resolved, even tho she still has her own INNERVISION site. CRV, ERV, TRV, SRV, BRV, etc as long as it works and as long the rules are adhered to. Yaana, THERE WAS NO MODERATION going on recently. STRANGE TIMING. Thank you folks for your patience until things are squared up. DH stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/975)
11:34:30
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Thanks Bevy, I was actually referring even more narrowly than this. I remember when the book you mentioned came out. But by late 73, I was aware of that the U.S. Government was also working in this area and that the Government took what the Soviets were doing seriously enough to investigate their work. I can't give you a citation. I wish I could. Unfortunately, I do not have a time line memory. And, whatever I need to trigger that memory hasn't come along yet. Peace Dirk stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/976)
11:34:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
<< proof for what I am going to say, nor do I need any (its magic). Sometimes, it seems to me, in ERV, that your physic or essence or what the hell ever, goes to the site location, but not the site location in this world but to the site in some psychic world, which is a shadow or reflection of this reality >> .....Ahhhh Liam, what a dear heart, great descriptive word 'essence' :-) This question you have answered has been rolling round my mind (?) seems forever, sheesh and I had even forgotten it, till you answered. (gee, must be magic) Actually I refer to it as the "frustration" now. What I 'see'? in ERV comes to me as, well what reminds me of a very grainy photograph, and YES! another part of the frustration is DETAIL! and as you mentioned, described yes! a shadow reflection.... ah your so smart. :-) When in session and I become stubborn with my self (imagine that...) and am bound and determined to pick up detail, I can sit in this shadow world, taste, feel, 'be', smell.. ahhh I have tried all kinds of tricks :-) sometimes, a lot of times I just cant get detail-s. BUT what is occuring more and more frequently to me now, is I will get a flash picture or flash of clarity in session and simply 'know'. Dont tell you know who, (the ogre), but this 'knowing' is much easier and quicker than the proper Rving, descriptive, descriptive, descriptive. What the heck I just tell ya what it is... :-) (very improper) LOL. (why if I had a student I would not let her get way with that.. :-) Thank you.... ~T~ stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: maaaaagic Mary D.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/977)
11:35:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
......... Congratulations Mary, you are a treasure. I honor the place in you in which the entire universe dwells. I honor the place in you which is of love, of truth, of light, and of peace. When you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, We are One. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Moderator Update
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/980)
11:35:54
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Stargate List Members. Please be patient. Steve and I are working with the Findmail staff to rememdy the problems with the Stargate List which seem to be located at the Stargate end. The major problems seem to be: 1. List messages are now being received by the Moderator for approval but Findmail is sending them to the list and to the archives with a blank message and sender info. You probably received two of these today. Please ignor them. Any messages sent to the list today (14th) should be resent. I have them here and I will also try and post them later today or tomorrow. 2. The Moderator is not receiving copies of the approved messages. I have made the list unmoderated for today while Findmail tries to remedy these problems. Please be kind to each other. Hopefully, in this unmoderated form you will receive this message and I will find it in the archived list. If Findmail cannot remedy the problems then we will probably rename the list and relocate to a fresh list. Hang in there! Kind regards Angela stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: [Stargate] Joe McMoneagle
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/981)
11:36:10
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
>> I talked to Joe day before yesterday to get an update on his health. After >> initially getting out of the hospital, he had to go back in for a few days >> because of bleeding into his lungs, but he is once again out and feeling >> fine. Did he have another heart attack? -- John Burke stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/982)
11:36:34
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
>> Ingo Swann defined "bilocation" as that time when you buy so thoroughly >> into the mental "mini virtual reality" that you start paying attention to >> only those impulses coming from your subconscious, and totally ignore those >> sensory impulses coming from your body. You feel like you are suddenly >> "THERE!!!" Would I be correct in assuming that the "mini virtual reality" is part of "the Matrix"? >> Surprisingly enough, Ingo teaches that the "bilocation" experience in CRV >> is a bad thing and should be avoided, if possible. Monitors are supposed >> to catch the viewer who is going into a bilocation experience and tell them >> a joke, ask them about their family, their car, or do something to pull >> them out of it. The reason is that when you are in one of those states, >> you don't report what you are getting. Then, you come back and have to >> summarize things. CRV isn't about summarizing - it is about controlled >> access of information and details. What about when the monitor tells the viewer to "look over your right shoulder"? Doesn't this imply that this type of "bilocation" is going on? Is it wrong for the monitor to lead the viewer in this way (since it would be indulging the viewer in such "bilocation")? -- John Burke stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/983)
11:37:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
>What about when the monitor tells the viewer to "look over your right >shoulder"? Hi John....I'm very new to all of this, but....you do have a sense of yourself (or so it seems to me) and actually I think being told to look over your right shoulder may be very helpful as sometimes the view seems very vast unless something catches your attention..then everything else goes away. Just my very inexperienced opinion... Siochain, Vikki stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/984)
11:37:41
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
>>This is why I love outbound targets, where you can >>go to the site physically a few minutes after viewing it in ERV. > I then wrote: >Does this mean on active service, hypothetically speaking of course, you >could actually rv a mission, to go and see what you are going to do. >Could you see yourself doing it. Liam, thanks for explaining about outbounders, and your (and others) kind words, but my original question still stands. Awkward aren't I. Could you be tasked with various outcomes to a situation by exporing various scenarios, Plan A, Plan B, etc. Could you RV to a time ahead of the various plans to see their liklihood of success. Could you RV it, and see it like a rehearsal. Then go on the away mission and do it for real. Could the RVr see themself in action, ahead of time. Regards, MaryD. stargate : Message: [Fwd: MODERATE -- moore@... wants to post a message to stargate]
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/985)
11:38:22
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000--------- From: DAVID MOORE Date: Thu, 13 Aug 98 23:50:12 -0500 To: stargate@... Subject: Re: [stargate] [Stargate] Joe McMoneagle References: <3.0.32.19980813182524.006abd00@...> I had missed seeing posts from Joe on PJ's list. My prayers are with him for a speedy recovery. I would be great to see him posting on this list wwhen he does recover. David stargate : Message: [Fwd: MODERATE -- Liam@... wants to post a message to stargate]
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/986)
11:38:43
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000--------- Hi Lyn, Glad to see you posting again. As always, your posts add needed degrees of clarity to the topic. Please give Joe my love. My prayers are with him. Besides being a rock in this field, he is special human being and a really special guy. His absence from the lists is a real loss. we need him to get well and hurry back. slainte Liam stargate : Message: [stargate]
Moderator Update
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/987)
11:38:56
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Thank you all for your patience as we got the Stargate list up and running again. Anybody interested in the details can contact me privately. This is a test message to ensure that the moderator function is working. No need to save or respond. Kind regards Angela stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/988)
11:39:22
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Last night I walked into our front room, and to my horror a lot of stuff was missing; video, telly, computer.. so I immediately thought we'd been burgled! I did a 'reality check', and realised I was dreaming, so all was OK (much relief). I then remembered that I was going to try to rv next time I had a lucid dream, so I thought of the (luckily short) co- ordinates I had recently been given by a friend, started to concentrate, closed my 'dreaming' eyes (mistake!)...........and woke up dammit! Still, I *did* remember that I wanted to try rv. Next time.... Hope it wasn't a precognitive dream . -- All the best, Glyn stargate : Message: [stargate]
teaching remote viewing?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/989)
11:39:33
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
can anyone give me list of people who teach RV thanks Eyal stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: teaching remote viewing?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/990)
11:39:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
[stargate] Re: teaching remote viewing? Eyal, there is no official published list of RV courses that are available. If you put in the key word Remote Viewing into your search engine you will link to many of the people and groups training individuals in various RV methods/techniques/protocols. It is then up to you to decide who you want to train with and where and which protocol etc. But let the buyer beware - there are many people out there who call their courses RV but are not. Always ask the instructor where they were trained, by whom, for how long, how much, etc. etc. An honest instructor will give you all this information. If they say they were trained by some shadowy figure whom they cannot name let that be a red flag. Kind regards Angela stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/991)
11:40:04
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
>This is not correct. I'm pretty sure some of the ERV'ers on the list >will back me up on this. > >Greg > You bet I'll back you up!! You are not alseep during ERV. ~Sarah stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/992)
11:40:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
John Burke The instruction to 'look over your shoulder' is similar to remotely moving the view field of a surveillance camera. It does not involve bilocation in the strictest sense of the word. Only a part of your mind is involved...not 'really' a shoulder, just a 'point of viewing'. If the eyes are open when doing such a task, you can see what is actually in front of you, plus sort of 'in between' you and the surroundings, you can see the target clearly. Hope this helps. Bevy J stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/993)
11:40:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
hmm guess i didnt explained myself well... well will you agree with me that your phisical body is in sleep state thats what i ment eyal stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/994)
11:41:00
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Hi Mary and all; Liam here. One of the oubound targets I did for PJ's net was me sitting at the computer, typing up all the outbound targets I had done during a trip to a strange and exotic place. Behind me as I typed, and unaware of what I was doing, was my wife Sandy and Monika. They were drinking coffee. A few months later, Monika began RVing again. She picked that outbound site to RV. She was able to view and identify herself as part of the session. So it is possible to view one self in the past. Your concept should work in theory, factoring in all the drawbacks associated with viewing the future that have been discussed ad Nassau. The problem is that "signal Line" time (SLT) is limited and this will require extra SLT without producing any information. I know that is confusing, so to clarify that, let me put you in the shoes of the Operations Officer of an operational RV Unit. If you are lucky you may have four viewers available and two monitors. If you get eight sessions a week out of a viewer you are lucky. Some viewers may not be able to accurately do more than five sessions a week unless there is an emergency. You have five outstanding taskings, which you need to prioritize. How many viewers are you going to target against each of those taskings. How many sessions by how many viewers will it take to resolve each tasking. Are you going to work a tasking with CRV or ERV or both? How many sessions can the monitors work, write up, and evaluate? If you pull a viewer over to monitor, then he cannot work as a viewer on that target. How urgent are the taskings and how many more taskings can you expect to receive in the next week? You have a new viewer in the unit who needs someone to train him/her. Do you do it or do you pull a monitor or viewer? There is feedback from previous taskings to pick up. There are VIPs to be briefed and sold how great the project is. Points of contact at other agencies need to be contacted to discuss past, present and future taskings. There are fights with General Odom's folks to be waged, or else the project stops. People need to be kept up on what others in the field are doing. Then there are the housekeeping tasks any military unit must accomplish. Things like personnel ratings, inventories, budgets, vehicle mileage reports, supply reports, etc, etc, etc. Add to this the fact no viewer is going to be on target 100 percent of the time. You almost always need to task at least two viewers on any target. What I am trying to illustrate is SLT is valuable. Any SLT you use to determine how and with who to work a session is SLT you will not have to work the session. Hope this helps. slainte May the force be with you Liam stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: Re: RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/995)
11:41:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
eyal, are you thinking of the Monroe Technique of Mind Awake/Body Asleep. This is relevant for many of the Monroe exercises but does not always apply in ERV. How do you define Body Asleep? Do you mean deeply relaxed? If so, then in the ERV that I know, yes, the body is deeply relaxed. Kind regards Angela eyal wrote: > > hmm guess i didnt explained myself well... > > well will you agree with me that your phisical body is in sleep state > thats what i ment > > eyal > stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/996)
11:41:26
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
>How do you define Body Asleep? Do you mean deeply relaxed? >If so, then in the ERV that I know, yes, the body is deeply relaxed. >Angela Hi Angela, Yes, I agree with both of you (I think!). When I RV, it is necessary for me to be in a deeply relaxed state. I assume it is that way for everyone. In your experience and research, has anyone ever tried to RV any other way? Jerry stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Rving the future
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/997)
11:41:59
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Exactly right! The only reason we think we can't remote view the future as well as we can the past is simply because we don't think we can. Fact is, you can, and if you fail - well, you just missed - that's all. It happens when we RV the past as well. Many studies have proven that RV effect size is NOT effected by displacing time in either direction. One can predict a random quantum event with as much reliability as a highly probable deterministic event. For those interested in learning more, I highly recommend the book "Future Memory & Time" by Sean O'Donnell. I would also recommend that you experiment with RVing the future - with an OPEN MIND. You just might be really surprised! "There is no God but reality. To seek him elsewhere is the action of the fall". I am basing my opinions on hard factual results from a lot of first hand research I have conducted on the subject. For those interested in more info on future prediction using ARV see http://www.remote-viewing.com/ electrix wrote: > What strikes me odd in all of this future business is that, if we are accessing > the matrix, the Akashic, Collective Unconscious or whatever...it is suppose to be > a timeless "environment." Meaning, it shouldn't be distorted by our human > persception of past, present or future.... so why are we not able to see the > "static" implication and content involving the target as it IS in the future?. stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: science or magic
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/998)
11:42:59
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
>BUT what is occuring more and more frequently to me now, is I will get a flash >picture or flash of clarity in session and simply 'know'. Dont tell you know >who, (the ogre), but this 'knowing' is much easier and quicker than the proper >Rving, descriptive, descriptive, descriptive. What the heck I just tell ya >what it is... :-) (very improper) LOL. (why if I had a student I would not let >her get way with that.. :-) >Thank you.... ~T~ Hi Terri and all; Liam here. I think you have it Terri. It is my belief that we obtain information in three ways. I will not go into detail on those having already posted several messages on this subject. In short we "perceive" information, we "cue" information (which is really just selected perceiving such as in stage 4) and we "know" information. This is how we get information in Stage 5. But stage 5 in CRV is not the only way we know information. I cannot tell you how it works, but I know it works. Very frequently the viewer is not aware of what he/she knows. It becomes evident in ERV in the following example of perceiving and knowing Perceiving MONITOR: Describe Structure Viewer: Ah Ah.....Large ah ..multi-story brown...... ah.. (pause) natural material old...ah older than other structures in area religious feeling.........tourist feeling not used any more facade ah (pause) historical feeling, military feeling. Knowing Monitor: Describe the structure Viewer. Oh, the structure is natural material, walled, brown. It is religious, military, historical. A major battle was fought here in the past. This is a symbol for something larger. Structure is still a symbol. It is a museum. Tourists here. It is by the river. AOL It is like Masada (Target is the the Alamo) The key to this is how well the monitor knows the viewer. If the viewer has a history of accuracy in "known" information, then by all means, this is valid information. Use it. If the viewer runs amok in regards to known information. Then, by all means be skeptical. Only, my opinion slainte May the force be with you. Liam stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Re: body relaxed
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/999)
11:43:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
Jerry: According to techniques learned via USSR protocols, it has never been necessary for me nor any of those I have trained to utilize any near-sleep nor altered state of mind to use remote viewing. Nothing like that was included in those training protocols. At the most there may be a light Alpha State, if there IS such a thing. Rather you might say it is a state of deep concentration and awareness. This may be in contrast with more recent methods of learning and using the techniques, but it was not a part of the protocols from which I learned. Bevy J U.S.Psi Squad stargate : Message: [stargate]
Re: Figure eights
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/1000)
11:44:13
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000901-001000---------
<< If you can train your subconscious mind to do that, you can make a better living running an obedience school for cats than you can doing CRV. >> Off the subject an ounce..... But isn't that what kitties are known for doing so well? (Figure Eights about your legs when it is feeding time .... this must be the true ideogram for a figure eight "Feed ME!!!") Couldn't help but note the analogy between kitties and figure eights here.... sorry for the interruption.... carry on.... Roo

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First Message Date: August 11, 1998. Last Message Date: August 17, 1998
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