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pjrv : Messages : 1030-1147 of 4038
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#1030

From: Richard Krankoski Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 11:10 pm Subject: Re: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? Rich_crv Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Well, As Laural told Hardy, "You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead." Rich > You can't lead a horse to water if there is no horse. An idiom I'm > sure will baffle the non-americans on the list, lol. -------------------- Moderator's note: LOL. Speaking of lead, if RV is sink-or-swim, I'm starting to feel like lead lately. I'm thinking maybe crochet would be more productive the rate I am going. I hope you all are having more fun at it. PJ Reply | Forward

#1094

From: greenmn900... Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 9:50 am Subject: Re: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? greenmn900... Send Email Send Email E, What are the controls for Lyn's demos? Are they blind, doubleblind? Who selects the target and how? Just curious. I wouldn't be surprised if the trainers get asked to demonstrate with every new class they start. I think allowing multiple sessions against one target is a step in the right direction. But I think it would be even more fair to set up maybe a half-dozen targets. As far as the restasking and analysis, etc., I guess it depends on whether you're after proof-in-principle that each RVer or each group can indeed RV, or whether you're wanting measure how well each does in an operational scenario. Because then we're faced with completely different questions. Do we measure accuracy (how often they can hit the target), reliability (average amount of right vs. wrong data per session), or RV operationally where most of the session can be wrong as long as it provides the specific (and useful) data that the tasker is looking for? Also, retasking must be done very carefully so that it remains doubleblind. Otherwise the test has no meaning. But here we run into areas that have a much greater chance of tasker error, especially if the tasker bases the retasking upon previous sessions. I think a scientific model would be much more appropriate. It would be easier to pull off, too. So many labs have come up with ever-tighter protocols as time has gone on, it would be easier to copy their method than to try to invent a new one. Best Regards, Don Reply | Forward

#1132

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 7:28 pm Subject: Re: Re: Psi-Survivors for 1 million! docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Don and All, I just want to reaffirm that there is no way anything like this will happen unless big $,$$$,$$$ is guranteed to the winners somehow. Nothing else would motivate the establishment teams... otherwise too much potential loss of face might happen and too much hard work would be needed for people that are usually overloaded with targets. ONLY large $$$$$$$$ will solve this. Most of the RVers are short of cash. But I really think that is possible. I think the American public would watch a TV "survivor " series where psi teams are pitted against each other with a cool million to the winner.. And that much money would draw some of the conservatives out of their vast hidden retreats...at least if it was set up in some logically fair way. I think such a contest would out ratings the other mundane contests easily. There could be pseudo military targets where teams would try to determine each others location by RV or dowsing and the hoast would bomb the coordinates suggested with water balloons or smoke...G . Teams could try to predict a wheel of fortune ( for the ARVers, with points for winning and penalties for wrong guesses . And provacative targets could also be used to bring the ratings up.. which Pru gets to choose...G Best Regards, Bill Reply | Forward

#1134

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 9:52 pm Subject: Re: Flying thing...uploaded to photos..Adam_Beeman docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hello Ken, Don, Or anyone that has not seen the Insect flying thing that materialized during my sons first scrying effort. It's cool.. I never get tired of it. He never drew anything like this before or since. BTW I called it a Beeman..because it was golden and black and brown..but now I think it to be a colorful Moth/Man! Best Regards, Bill It's in the photos section of PJRV. -- PJ Reply | Forward

#1147

From: Ken Burns Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 11:52 am Subject: Re: Flying thing...uploaded to photos..Adam_Beeman mesundo Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, > It's cool.. I never get tired of it. > .but now I think it to be a colorful Moth/Man! Thanks for posting the drawing of the baby Moth/Man. I was trying to picture in my mind what it looked like. What a great first time experience that was! Ken Reply | Forward

#1107

From: Richard Krankoski Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 9:50 pm Subject: Re: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? Rich_crv Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > What are the controls for Lyn's demos? Are they blind, doubleblind? Who > selects the target and how? Just curious. I wouldn't be surprised if the > trainers get asked to demonstrate with every new class they start. Over the years I have often heard about teachers doing a demo for new students. And why not? Is there any other student/teacher relationship that does not include "watch this" time? At least an assistant or individual on hand to provide some show and tell....? And that leads me to another mystery. Why cannot an instructor use those student demos as their portfolio? Do they end up in the trash? I don't think I have ever heard a student mention that their instructor did a demo and missed the target. Seems they always do a "great" job. I know that is not the case. Rich Reply | Forward

#1108

From: "Eva" Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 11:34 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? k9caninek9 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > --- In pjrv...ichard Krankoski And that leads me to another mystery. Why > cannot an instructor use those student demos > as their portfolio? Do they end up in the trash? > I don't think I have ever heard a student mention > that their instructor > did a demo and missed the target. Seems they > always do a "great" job. I know > that is not the case. I guess if the teacher misses the target, then the students are less likely to talk about it. LOL! -E pjrv : Messages : 1005-1163 of 4038
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#1005

From: Richard Krankoski Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 11:08 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? Rich_crv Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > > Realistically, there has to be a motive. > > Hi Bill, a possible motive could be advertisment and proof of one's > skills and what rv is capable. I used to think that could happen but the instructors in the field have made it clear over the years that they are not about to do any sort of public demonstrations..... let alone on a regular basis..... let alone as a competitive thing. This is generally considered parlor tricks. Exceptions: First generation: Joe McMoneagle.... Joe does not teach but has given instructions in his books AND has done public work via his books and the media. Ed Dames........ we all know how his work and those that viewed for him came out. Student generation: Courtney Brown....... Same as E.D. Prudence Calabrese..... a variety of public and semi-public demonstrations over several years. Other: greg kolodziejzyk: Doing a live on the internet ARV project. There are also the $1,000,000 Randii challenge and the $25,000,000 Osama reward sitting idly on the table. hrvg was working with someone on the Randi challenge but that seems to have stalled out. That leaves the hundreds of students who either abandon RV, play and practice here and there or enter the closet, never to be heard from except for an occasional after the fact claim or two. Such is the nature of the RV game. It is not for the general public, kinda like red light districts. :) Rich Reply | Forward

#1018

From: "Eva" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 2:00 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? k9caninek9 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Well, even if some of those list of exceptions were to participate, it would still be worthwhile. Also, good point about Greg K. He might do it too. I bet if the thing were set up, I could get a few people to do it. A lot of people did run the Angela experiment. This would be less scary because the viewers would have plenty of time to gather data in multiple sessions and they could have someone task them in the way they are accustomed. There would be much less danger of them getting a target they did not approve of. -E Reply | Forward

#1034

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 11:36 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Rich, I really take exception to you calling it parlor games. What it is is TAKING RISKS. That's what the established teachers don't want. And again the exceptions are those you mentioned. Best Regards, Bill > --- Richard Krankoski wrote: > I used to think that could happen but the > instructors in the field have made > it clear over the years that they are not about to > do any sort of public > demonstrations..... let alone on a regular > basis..... let alone as a > competitive thing. This is generally considered > parlor tricks. Reply | Forward

#1048

From: Richard Krankoski Date: Sun Nov 3, 2002 5:50 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? Rich_crv Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, > I really take exception to you calling it parlor > games. What it is is TAKING RISKS. That's what the > established teachers don't want. And again the > exceptions are those you mentioned. That was not my terminology. I believe I first heard it used by Lyn Buchanan several years ago. I got the impression that any request for a remote viewer to demonstrate for someone was equivalent to asking for a parlor trick. Maybe he had a different definition for it. Rich Reply | Forward

#1124

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 1:06 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Rich, >--- Richard Krankoski wrote: > That was not my terminology. I believe I first > heard it used by > Lyn Buchanan several years ago. I really like Lyn and think he is great. But that is clearly a strategy for avoiding having to prove one's ability. It's like when I was in third grade.. and someone told me that could run a 9.0 flat 100 yard dash..so I said do it I have a stop watch.. ...and he said.. I don't want to... but I could if I wanted to. Not at all that Lyn can't do it..but I just hate that attitude. ..:-) Best Regards, bill --------------------------------- Moderator's note: E. says he demo'd for her course on some envelopes he had there with him. I never had anybody report to me an instructor demo even when the subject came up, until now. Sounds cool. PJ Reply | Forward

#1065

From: greenmn900... Date: Sun Nov 3, 2002 3:31 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? greenmn900... Send Email Send Email Hi. The problem is fear. We all fear failing in front of others. I know I suffer from it. But those who claim that they teach people to RV and demand money for doing so, stand a hell of a lot more to lose than an independent RVer like me. They would be putting their credibility on the line. The problem with demonstrating RV is in knowing that each and every session stands a very good chance of being a complete miss. We all have at least some grasp of our personal success rates, so we all know the likelehood of failure in any given session. I miss about 30-40% of the time. Knowing that, I've always asked people who want me to demonstrate to let me do at least six different sessions. Then the odds of having a good session somewhere in there start to swing in my favor and I can be fairly sure I'll demonstrate RV at some point. So far, maybe because it's very important to me at the time, I've been lucky and I've had a very good first session every time I tried to prove the reality of RV to anyone. (I've done it 6-7 times). But people like me are only claiming that we can remote view. The teachers are the self-proclaimed experts in the field, and are claiming much more than just the ability to do it. If they fail, not only is their individual ability called into question (which really would be unfair if only one session is done, but it would happen), but also their whole legitimacy as a teacher. The only person I've seen who has ever taught RV and isn't afraid to demonstrate publicly under tight controls is Joe. And unfortunately, he hasn't taught people personally for years - though I think he's done a tremendous job of teaching through his writing. It sounds like Lyn was copping out if he called demonstrations a "parlor trick". If someone claims they can not only demonstrate the high-level clairvoyance of RV, but that they can also teach others to do the same; they should be more than happy to demonstrate it. It only adds evidence to what most people consider a pretty extravagant claim. I wonder if part of the fear is based on how they usually train, with the monitor totally front loaded. It's a very huge step from that to true double blind controls. If they don't have a lot of experience operating under lab-quality controls, that could add a lot more to the performance anxiety any RVer would feel. This kind of demonstration might also serve to buttress what McMoneagle says, that individual talent and hard work are the governing factors in how well a person will do at RV and that the actual method has little do with success. For some teachers who spread the idea that Ingo's CRV is light-years ahead of any other method, this wouldn't serve them very well. I can see why they might not want to participate. Best Regards, Don Reply | Forward

#1067

From: "Eva" Date: Sun Nov 3, 2002 9:18 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? k9caninek9 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Lyn does demos for his class. Actually, he refers to them as dog and poney shows. I don't think he loves doing them, but he does do them from time to time. I'm not sure where the 'parlor trick' quote came from. I have not heard him say that. As for the session thing, the setup in question would allow a group to do as many sessions as they pleased on the question tasked however they please. That would be less scary than a one session sink or swim scenario. If you want to see what rv can do, it seem to me that includes seeing the full gammut of multiple sessions, retasking, analysis, etc. That's the kind of answer a client would be getting. -E Reply | Forward

#1083

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 1:04 am Subject: Re: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Dear Eva, Just to be clear. I was talking about an RV Olympics where plenty of chance would be given to entrants ( better yet teams of viewers) to demonstrate thru the qualifying rounds. . Not just one trial. Best Regards, Bill Reply | Forward

#1074

From: Richard Krankoski Date: Sun Nov 3, 2002 10:47 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? Rich_crv Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > Don wrote: > The problem is fear. We all fear failing in front of others. I know I > suffer from it. But those who claim that they teach people to RV and demand > money for doing so, stand a hell of a lot more to lose than an independent > RVer like me. They would be putting their credibility on the line. So, where does the credibility come from in the first place? > The problem with demonstrating RV is in knowing that each and every session > stands a very good chance of being a complete miss. We all have at least > some grasp of our personal success rates, so we all know the likelehood of > failure in any given session. That, of course must be factored in. I believe even the Randi challenge allows for "misses". There are only one or two people who claim 100% accuracy and they have demonstrated profusely.... and are still trying to demonstrate an accuracy rate closer to 100 than zero. > I miss about 30-40% of the time. Wow, that is world class level. Better than Star Gate. > But people like me are only claiming that we can remote view. The teachers > are the self-proclaimed experts in the field, and are claiming much more than > just the ability to do it. If they fail, not only is their individual > ability called into question (which really would be unfair if only one > session is done, but it would happen), but also their whole legitimacy as a > teacher. Isn't the key word here "self-proclaimed"? > This kind of demonstration might also serve to buttress what McMoneagle says, > that individual talent and hard work are the governing factors in how well a > person will do at RV and that the actual method has little do with success. > For some teachers who spread the idea that Ingo's CRV is light-years ahead of > any other method, this wouldn't serve them very well. > > I can see why they might not want to participate. yup. Rich Reply | Forward

#1080

From: Timelord2029... Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 3:23 am Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? psitrooper24 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 don says: >I've always asked people who want >me to demonstrate to let me do at >least six different sessions. >Then the odds of having a good session >somewhere in there start to swing in my favor and I can be >fairly sure I'll >demonstrate RV at some point. Hi Don, That sounds like a brilliant idea and would help dismiss the fear of failure considerably or over a period of time as long as you dont do 6 duff sessions in a row :)) Peace, Tunde Reply | Forward

#1081

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Sun Nov 3, 2002 11:53 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha Rich and Don. I don't think they are afraid of bring wrong...so much as real sick and tired of nobodies trying to get them to jump through hoops...just because they want them to...I give people urls...I don't give freebes either...hahah...unless I feel like it... The future of Rv is in the hands of the Viewers and how much they are willing to go for it...Whether alone or with a class...sorta depends on cash I guess... I fully intend to take classes from several teachers one day...untill then... I gotta give Eve some kudos for setting up Farviews bi monthly open session ... for all of us...to practice/learn together...for free.....and get over our egos......heck...use a nom de plume!...win some...lose some Rich and I had our martini lunch together at Farview......I will post my session later... and believe me...It takes some courage to stick your neck out over there as well...even for a self taught independant ...with far less an average than yours... Maybe if we all do this enough ...it will inspire the experts to do something together...we got Pru already......and Shelia showed some interesting work at stargate...and Pj just lets us see all her stuff...so maybe the guys will get some courage/enthusiasm from the gals......and us kids... I know that PJ gave me lots of courage by posting her off stuff...If she had the nerve...what did I have to lose?...I have mucho respect for her for doing this...It is at least as light...as it is dark... Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna --------------------------- Moderator's note: (1) It's not like they did it for years in public like Joe and got weary of it you know. ;-) (2) All my stuff. Riiiiight. I got a file drawer the size of -- well, nearly the size of everyone else's. LOL. PJ Reply | Forward

#1125

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 1:09 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Dawna, Well I can certinaly understand that..nevertheless it will have to be done by someone..perhaps the next generation of viewers... if RV is EVER to have some universal credibility.. bill* Reply | Forward

#1085

From: greenmn900... Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 8:57 am Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? greenmn900... Send Email Send Email Tunde, Yeah, it helps even out the odds but it sure isn't foolproof. I've had far more than 6 complete misses in a row many, many times. Best regards, Don ------------------------------- Moderator's note: That explains it. I'm just having all my eventual misses up front. LOL. PJ Reply | Forward

#1090

From: greenmn900... Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 9:10 am Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? greenmn900... Send Email Send Email Dawna, I can understand why people would get tired of demonstrating after awhile. Hell, it's always a nerve-racking experience. But it's important to note that they're not asked to demonstrate for "nobodies" - there's no such thing. When it comes to showing proof of such a consensus reality-altering phenomenon as RV, upon which they depend for income and promote, it seems to me they should be happy to do it. Another point to remember is that EVERY time Joe has been asked to RV in front of TV cameras, the producers have also asked others. So far, no one will take them up on it but Joe. The only reasonable assumption I can make is that they must be afraid of failure, and understandably so. Best Regards, Don Reply | Forward

#1091

From: greenmn900... Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 9:34 am Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? greenmn900... Send Email Send Email Rich, >Rich wrote: >So, where does the credibility come from in the first place? It comes from being in the Stargate program and being trained in CRV by either Ingo or one of his next-generation trainers - at least in the minds of many people. Where else could it come from? Have you ever seen any scientific studies with anyone currently teaching CRV being the subject, where their individual RV success rates are published? Have you ever seen any RV trainers demonstrate RV under TV cameras in a doubleblind experiment? Their credibility relies on being in the Stargate program or on being trained extensively by someone who was. That's it. >Wow, That is world class level. Better than Star gate. Well, I've sure put in a lot of practice over the last 3-4 years. But remember, when I say I miss 30-40% of the time, that's based on my own subjective judging. Even though I think I tend to be overly critical of my results, it's not like the judging was done in any lab-approved manner, no blind matching or anything like that. If I was judged under a lab-approved protocol, my failure rate might be much higher, so the stats I mentioned don't really mean anything to anyone but me, at least they shouldn't. They definitely shouldn't be compared to results in the lab, but they might be compared to the subjective operational quality of Star Gate. I don't know. I try not to hung up on my current stats because (1) they change all the time - a string of failures really brings it down fast, and, (2) they don't really mean anything when you always know that each and every session could just as likely be a complete failure as a direct hit. >Isn't the key word here "self-proclaimed"? Yeah, I guess it is. That's why it seems to me they should jump at each and every chance to validate themselves and RV in general, like McMoneagle does. Best Regards, Don Reply | Forward

#1096

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 4:48 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha Don, Well whatever the problem is ...it doesn't sit well... to learn (1)...that all scientific claims are open to scrutiny of the highest order...and that includes any valid remote viewing/psi activites...that wish to be considered as scientifaclly valid... Whereas..(2).making claims is common ...Isn't that where we are taught to draw the line?...Experiences require/need no proof...but scientific claims...do! Yet so very many of our best RVers are either conpletely unknown or refuse to give demos...or are 'top secret"...Which I do understand...whether I approve or not...a contract is a contract I guess...and the government has guns... but on the currant time demos stuff...I saw a very fairly recent great session of Lynns... put up on HRVG's newsletter last year... The Original guys... are picky I guess...I know I am...and give when I feel like it...not when others think I should...good thing or I would probably give far less of myself...cause I usually think we should all give more out...than most agree with... Whatever it is...It is up to the studentxs in the end after all...teachers teach those that CHANGE THE WORLD...I know of many people that have received gratis training and would not have been able to afford it otherwise... but the trainers deserve to make a living as well...and they owe us no more than we all owe one another... Old piece pipe circle behavior...what comes around goes around...You show me your session and I'll show you mine...and maybe we can all gain ...some insight...including the teachers ...for we are all students and teachers...and my best teachers were always aware they were learning from students... as well... Maybe it is our turn to teach/share......and they will catch on... from there... I just wish more of them could open up and realize...we are their community......their product...and partially responsible for the future...not to mention best source of publicity...or at least some sites used to be...a few still recognize their value...to all of us... Bottom line Psi/Rv is on one hand so extremely personal/intimate...and on the other ...a secret we all sublimate...untill awakened...and then we just got to share...Keep that little old flame alive ...cause it is a catalyst...for whatever we decide it will become...and eventually realize...that all truly is one...We are not only our 'brothers keepers'...but in so many ways...we are our brothers...(I would have said sisters but didn't want to throw off the males... hahah) (PS...I didn't meant to trash anyone by my comment that people trying to put other on the line and make them give demos are nobdody...by this I meant... not into learning ...so much as seeing one of them fall on their face...and that kinda vibes are definately a psi disability for me...the real somebodies in RV ...are the ones in the trenches...us......I have heard Pru gives demos... Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna --------------------------- Moderator's note: Somehow, putting the last line that way, makes demos sound like something guys like and girls pretend they don't do. ROFL. PJ Reply | Forward

#1112

From: Timelord2029... Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 2:38 am Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? psitrooper24 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Don 6 misses in a row? That is very unusual. Iam sure you had "some" kind of target contact and no matter how small it may have been try not to think of it as either hit or miss but more like "you were there" regardless of what data you picked up. Iam just as critical of my work as anybody else but the "you were there" attitude is something ive had to learn slowly since using TDS methods and training and i must admit it has helped me tremendously. I cannot stress enough how important this is. Do you use CRV or your own system? Peace, Tunde ----------------------- Moderator's note: I really crack up when there is some response to failure that sounds like, gee if you only used XYZ method, you wouldn't have failure anymore, lol. McMoneagle's the best and he says he has sometimes had 25-30 misses in a row -- and later on, he usually figures out why, but during the time it was demoralizing but you just gotta move on. Maybe the price of greatness is higher or something. By which I mean, like baseball players for example, the ones with the most amazing batting averages often strike out, sometimes for long stretches too. Those less skilled may strike out less, but they often hit 'home runs' less. Maybe there is some RV equivalent. PJ Reply | Forward

#1130

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 6:44 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha Tunde, I am finding more and more...that my analysis (judging) of my session is more the culprit than the psi...except when the psi part of my mind tries to interfere with the judging...and I let it... As long as I can keep these two processes...in their place...it seems to truly aid in my final ARV sessions... I am getting a grip on keeping the analytical busy ...while the other part of me lets the psi data through...I am still having to battle with myself about confusing the two ...when required to be in the analytical now(judging)...It use to be the other way around... Rarely have I had a session where none of the applicable data is present...but I have missed 6 out of 10 fairly consistantly for over 50 sessions at PIA...and the goal /standard in this... is far more than 50-50......but the hits ...are so rewarding... that I feel like it is more than worth it...the biggest reward is the expansion of myself...to/by/for myself...and hope others learn a little through me as well...I know the great majority of everything I know (about anything)was shared with me by others ...on a similar path... This is all fun Damnit...even when it hurts like hell...hahaha...It is all by choice...after all......I have not enjoyed 'myself' this much for a long time...before RV......at least I am on a path that definately leads somewhere...probably back to me! PS...I just got over a run of misses...5 in a row...and have only recently got back on the upswing...Trick is...don't let the disallusionment get in the way of the currant viewing session...and that is not always easy...preserverance... looking forward rather than secretly dreading...helps a lot as well...Let the child do it for you...hahah...they get up from a fall a lot easier than the older ones...and rarely let a fall stop them for long... Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna Reply | Forward

#1133

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 8:56 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha Bill, So true...One thought that just occurred to me ...is that...perhaps they are just tired of doing demo's...the military stuff probably gave them their fill... of giving demo's...except for the truly interested...in an intimate environment... Perhaps it is because they have proved it to their biggest judge/critic... themselves...Isn't that what is really important here?...Once we 'know'...then...it is just a matter of work/practice...How much we truely desire it and how much effort/time we are willing to give it? I intuit it will be an evolutionary leap...between the generations of viewers...and if we are lucky... we will learn from each new RV generation... and continue to progress...(Sort of the 100th Monkey thing)0 Isn't that how most things work?...and get passed on...and why Moses could lead...but himself... couldn't enter the promised land...because he could no longer adapt...to change...or a shift in his reality? Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna Reply | Forward

#1143

From: Richard Krankoski Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 11:49 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? Rich_crv Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > Isn't that how most things work?...and get passed on...and why Moses > could lead...but himself... couldn't enter the promised land...because he > could no longer adapt...to change...or a shift in his reality? Wouldn't it be something that the two dozen or so original Star Gate members left nothing behind as evidence of their work. If everything remains classified and eventually destroyed and nothing new is documented and published. Jeez, we have how many people firmly believing that man did not really go to the moon, that it was all faked, with all of the documentation available. Do you think it won't be too many years before Star Gate becomes a fable? When the RV history is headlined by the Hale-Bopp companion and the 57 varieties of forecasted doom? Rich Reply | Forward

#1163

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 7:53 pm Subject: Re: Future of RV docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Richard, I'm afraid you may be correct. However, RV's skids are greased much more than the moon astronauts. All of the major scientific and government agencies worldwide back our trips to the moon. The denial has come originally from a small group of conspiracy addicts. How much MORE DIFFICULT for RV..which has never had generalized scientific nor government report..only secret support! Unless somehow someway RVers can break into the mainstream of science and industry with publications and/or making a ton of $$$$$$$ .. it may well pass away. But it also depends on other psi developements over the next couple of decades. There has been a significant shift in acceptance of the possibility of psi amongst the general population over the last two decades..very significant.Although it has not penetrated the to scientific institution yet. This is a slow but promising trend. But if RV remains a semi-secret art passed down from Master to Student like a Masonic lore or Kung Fu secrets.. ..it will disappear into the mysts of time. Also, I sometimes I wonder if there is not a program to deliberately discredited it by some government group? Bill* Reply | Forward

#1155

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 3:09 pm Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha Rich, Could well be...but underground RV would be very hard to stop...Especially if the rooms... it is done in... are properly lined! Isn't that how most religions start?...and then they are slowly guided to pick leaders/representatives... and then the power of the people is slowly deminished...in favor of the theoretically more gifted?...Knowledgeable...power-ful?...and then the whole focus can be mutated into providing better drones? PS...I gotta admit that one photo on the moon with the weird shadows is very interesting!...I do know we have gone there...but I ain't sure about that picture with the shadows and wavying flag... Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna Reply | Forward

#1157

From: greenmn900... Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 10:21 am Subject: Re: Would groups be willing to demo their skills? greenmn900... Send Email Send Email Dawna, I like your thoughts about letting the child within do the RVing. I think you're exactly right. It's important to keep it fun. BTW, I think the reason Moses himself could not enter the promised land was because of the sins of his generation. God would not let the people who had turned away from him and turned toward pagan gods after He had led them from captivity and fed them in the wilderness enter the promised land. Plus, the nephilium, or giants, remained in that land and so they were afraid to enter it, contrary to God's will. They remained in the wilderness until all of that generation had died off. I believe that's how the story goes, anyway. Best Regards, Don

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