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Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/
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pjrv : Messages : 2898-2912 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/2898?)
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#2898

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:36 pm Subject: Verbal Sessions pjgaenir Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Author/speaker Win Wenger has a whole lot of "practices" related to "human potential", brain-power, perception, etc. He also has a list on yahoo called imagestreaming. I recently asked him a question and thought you guys might want to see his response. My question to you is, do you think the 'saying aloud' -- either recording or to another person, it's important there be an awareness of the words being 'heard' by someone -- might make a difference in remote viewing? Swann's CRV has, as basic learning theory integration I was told, the writing down of all data partly because it is "feedback" -- it goes out of the body, and then the body perceives it outside, which sort of feeds it back inside, and if the data is accurate, it increases contact with the signal line. (Er, something like that. It's been awhile. But I think this is accurate as the gist of it.) But that's just any form of expressing it, not 'verbal' and 'must be heard'. PJ -------------- I have a question for Win. Other than the semantics, is Borrowed Genius basically the same principal as ceremonial magic's "Assuming a Godform?" In that, one chooses a godform which represents wisdom or strength or whatever, in the area one chooses, and ... visualizes (to simplify things a bit) absorbing that energy. Jose Silva's Silva Mind Control also has a technique where, to tune into someone you wish to either gain rapport with or share a quality with, you visualize (with body movements as well) "putting on their head". I have a variant on my remote viewing practice I call "Aspect RV," based loosely on Jane Roberts' "Aspect Psychology". (RV is a form of psi functioning.) I ask many different 'aspects of self' something about the target. Some tune into it better than others, or provide more useful info than others. (Sometimes it's useful to get an architect, or CEO, or police officer, or nurse, depending on the target. Stuff like, "It's constructed, but it's not a building," from an architect, is valuable info when the target's a crop circle, for example. Most my targets are much more boring than that though. ;-)) Do you think all of these practices are kind of tying into the same general human ability to reach-through-the-middle any other person, information or quality, a 'consciousness' kind of thing? Or do you just think the practice is simply helping a psychology to allow whatever the person innately has, without anything else involved? PJ ---------------- PJ - as it happens, the Silva was where I first encountered the "putting on of heads," adapting it as a learning and discovery technique (though the Vladimir Raikov "artificial reincarnation" method was uppermost in my mind when we first tried our experiments in March 77 with our versions of Borrowed Genius). It is also the Silva where "casework" first pointed me toward realization that describing your (subtle) perceptions aloud WHILE you are observing them, TO a listener, develops those perceptions, and that all elements of training aside, THAT was the main strength of their casework procedure. I tried to share this perception with the Silva organization, but it was too commercial and packaged to respond. Our Remote Viewing process is very different. We experience - especially FEEL - life force energy, imagine it getting more intense as we breathe with and through our whole body like pulling air in on embers. Get that life force almost too brilliant to look upon, invest your awareness with that body of energy and less involved with the physical body there. Imagine standing up out of that physical body in the form of your energy body, look around, keep enough connection with your physical body to continue describing your perceptions aloud to your listener/partner. With the speed of thought, send your energy body this place or that, send your point of view over to catch up with and become one with your energy body each time and look around from there, reporting your perceptions....... That works pretty well, some reading this may be able to perform this just from this capsule of description, others might need the full version published in 1979 as part of the book Your Limitless Inventing Machine (alas this is temporarily out of print).... As to whether this is a literal tuning-in to transpersonal phenomena, use of senses not yet understood, work simply with analogues within oneself based upon and projected from a priori information however obtained..... I'm happy to supply the tools and let others decide what the resultant phenomena are. Because a teacher's position is too powerful. If I say what the phenomena are, for real or in my opinion, too many people will believe that and accept that without making their own observations. That runs counter to the Project Renaissance purpose of getting people to pay more attention to their own actual perceptions, relative to what (they think) they know. So I'm not going to say what this stuff really is. Except that it's probably different from what you think it is. Have fun looking. ...win Reply | Forward

#2900

From: "intuitwolf" Date: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:42 pm Subject: Re: Verbal Sessions intuitwolf Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > Swann's CRV has, as basic learning theory integration I was told, the > writing down of all data partly because it is "feedback" -- it goes > out of the body, and then the body perceives it outside, which sort > of feeds it back inside, and if the data is accurate, it increases > contact with the signal line. (Er, something like that. It's been > awhile. But I think this is accurate as the gist of it.) But that's > just any form of expressing it, not 'verbal' and 'must be heard'. That's all kind of jumbled and I'm not sure if you are saying Swann does or doesn't have the viewer verbalize the data also. He does. Paul taught us to say everything out loud while it is being written. Multifaceted feedback loop. Shelia --------------------------- Moderator's note: I think the jumbled part is about the verbal. You're right, that was part of it. I was thinking of sketches and of the diff b/t a written session and a fully verbal session, part of that being you can 'say it out loud' but unless we have a monitor or tape recorder for the voice it doesn't match Wenger's wish about saying something that would be heard. In any case, it IS demonstrated in learning theory, though my understanding was the application of that to CRV at least didn't really bear out (or at least render it of measurable substance) in lab studies, but I guess until or unless they publish those, there's not much fair discussion could be had on that really. PJ Reply | Forward

#2904

From: "intuitwolf" Date: Sun Mar 30, 2003 1:37 am Subject: Re: Verbal Sessions intuitwolf Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > Moderator's note: > . . . In any case, it IS demonstrated in learning theory, though my > understanding was the application of that to CRV at least didn't > really bear out (or at least render it of measurable substance) in lab > studies, but I guess until or unless they publish those, there's not > much fair discussion could be had on that really. PJ > ----------------------------- It would be fine with me (from the position of viewer) if it turned out that saying the data aloud in CRV was of no value. I hate that part and often forget to do it at all (confessions of an errant, unmonitored viewer - LOL!). But, from the position of the monitor, it really is of great value in gauging the viewer's depth and degree of contact with the target. Is this something Ed is exploring in the lab? Well you've given me the idea that it might be fun to set up my recorder during the next session and then monitor myself post session or just before the final summary. :-) Shelia Reply | Forward

#2906

From: James Phillip Turpin Date: Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:46 pm Subject: Re: Re: Verbal Sessions james_p_turpin Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 In learning more mundane matters, such as math or what-not, its been found that talking to yourself helps with long-term learning, but has very little short-term affect. If the affect is similar with CRV, then you would need to track the improvement of viewers over about a year to really see the affect. This is not likely to be done by any experimenters I know of. James ------------------------ Moderator's note: (1) Wenger (the reason I brought up the idea to start the thread) isn't actually referring just to saying something out loud. To him, the 'awareness of a listener' is *critical* and without that, who cares. But (2) it is difficult to say what all has been studied. I've come up with things I thought were damn novel ideas I was sure nobody had ever thought of during the program, and asked Dr. May about them, and it turns out they not only studied it but at far more length than I might have thought of, and some things (such as methods and time to practice them) they put substantial people into for a substantial amount of time in many cases, so my assumptions were wrong. Generally if there's a specific question of interest (e.g. was this or anything like this studied) come up with, I can ask someone who was in the science part of the program about it and see what they say. Regards, PJ Reply | Forward

#2912

From: "intuitwolf" Date: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:52 pm Subject: Re: Verbal Sessions intuitwolf Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > --- James Phillip Turpin In learning more mundane matters, such as math or > what-not, its been found > that talking to yourself helps with long-term > learning, but has > very little short-term affect. In regard to CRV the concept has nothing to do with 'learning'. It's a form of objectivifying the data and your 'listener' is the conscious/editor part of your own mind that you want to engage in a manner that will not interfere with your session. Shelia pjrv : Messages : 2905-2914 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/2905?)
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#2905

From: Richard Krankoski Date: Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:30 pm Subject: Re: Re: Verbal Sessions Rich_crv Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Well, that could prove interesting at the library where I do a lot of my sessions. I wonder if I would draw a crowd, stares or a repremand after a few minutes of: RED, Black, Hard, bright, curved, slanted, flat, yellow...... "Sir, are you ok?" :( "......are you..........one of .....them ?????" :[ "OK buddy, let's see your library card." :{ I recall that several people have talked about doing their sessions in other public places. whisperrrrrr???? Rich Reply | Forward

#2907

From: Benton Bogle Date: Mon Mar 31, 2003 8:03 am Subject: RE: Re: Verbal Sessions waterway_21 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 I'm glad to see you writing about "verbalizing" events during RV sessions. Coincidentally, this is something I was working with last week. There just seems to be a lot of support for the idea that saying something out loud for your ears to hear, or writing stuff down for your eyes to see, is important. A lot of different schools of PSI have the users doing verbal affirmations before the PSI event, as well as verbally requesting from the prime-consciousness (subconsciousness) the information they are after. That led me to wonder about praying, whether one should pray out loud or "in your head"? I think my question is whether the prime-consciousness actually can hear conscious mind at all, or whether the conscious mind can only communicate TO the prime-consciousness through the 5 senses. What do you think of that? Is that just goofy? Have you long-time RVers noticed some correlation between verbalizing and RV success? Reply | Forward

#2913

From: Benton Bogle Date: Tue Apr 1, 2003 7:49 am Subject: RE: Re: Verbal Sessions waterway_21 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Whoa, back up here. Who is Wenger? This is interesting stuff. I don't guess verbalizing is important during the RV session, but during the affirmation and during feedback it would be valuable. So doing your session in the library is still do-able. -Benton ---------------------------- Moderator's note: I don't know whether it's important or not -- Win Wenger would say it is I imagine, but it'd take some real testing, and of course, such would have to be done under his conditions/reasoning or there'd be no point. He's an author. http://www.winwenger.com/ -- PJ Reply | Forward

#2914

From: Timelord2029... Date: Tue Apr 1, 2003 12:35 am Subject: Re: Re: Verbal Sessions psitrooper24 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > Rich wrote: > "Sir, are you ok?" :( > "......are you..........one of .....them ?????" :[ > "OK buddy, let's see your library card." :{ your too much rich LOL Peace, Tunde

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