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pjrv : Messages : 274-278 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/274?)
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#274

From: jsentient... Date: Mon Jul 29, 2002 3:09 pm Subject: symbolism & autonomy jsentient Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hi RV'rs, Some of my most interesting and successful remote viewing sessions included symbolic images and notions. Some of the symbols I have learned over many different targets and are consistent, some occur but once. Usually, the first time a symbol comes, it also seems to come with a sense for what it might represent. That sense is very subtle. An example is -- I often see in my mental imagery a jumble of lines, like a pile of pixy stixs, it's a chaotic nest of lines in every which direction, but mostly straight lines. This has been a fairly reliable indicator for me that the target contains life. I like to think of it as representing hair or feathers. Other symbols are much more abstract, but you get the idea. I also get very direct target characteristics, especially shape, texture, geometry etc. But I am not writing about those right now. Another thing, and many of you may not experience this (probably less than the symbol thing), I sometimes feel that while the information IS the target, there is an intermediary. Many might consider this to be the subconscious. And it may be,,,,hell if I know. But I suspect it is autonomous. I feel an effort in communication going on,,,,two awareness' involved, (just) one being my conscious mind. And this is why I have mentioned the symbols. Symbols are a fundamental hallmark of communication. In fact, it can't happen without symbolism. And, it doesn't happen without more than one awareness. Communication implies two. So, I wonder about this autonomy other than my consciousness. It's difficult for me to think about it as subconsciousness. I kind of think the sub is supposed to be just a more fundamental aspect of myself. I have trouble thinking of myself as more than one (the notion of self as more than one is an oxymoron, a paradox). No doubt my mind, like everyone's, is a complex thing, with different levels of awareness and info processing, but different levels does not translate to independent autonomous dialog. At least doesn't seem like it would to me. Palyne's archetype work also seems full of VERY autonomous dialog. It's interesting. And I know a lot of psychic's talk about guides and spirits. Mostly, I don't like such notions, not sure why, but they don't appeal to me. I also remember the imaginary friend I had When I was a three or four year old child. As for my imaginary friend, he seemed as if part of a lucid dream,,,,,I could in part control him, who he was, and how he reacted/acted,,,,he wasn't totally autonomous, but even so, he often seemed so. Anyway, I don't think guides or imaginary friends are involved in remote viewing. I don't really know what's going on to be honest. But I will share a remote viewing experience that involved symbolic "communication" of target information. Some of you may have already read this account from me, and my monitor/tasker was Mary Ashley at the time (hi Mary). She had assigned (of course unbeknownst to me) the target "man's first steps on the moon." I got a lot of information on this target, but right now I will only share the info that came as symbolism. As I remote viewed this target, early in my session, in my mind I saw three men standing with their backs to me. Suddenly these three men dropped their pants and bent over. They mooned me. How funny! And I had to laugh at the time. But here in this example/experience we see symbolism and more, we see humor. The sense of (other) autonomy, of communication seems so strong to me. Well, I don't get much time to be involved with the list, but I saw that Palyne wanted shared experience and participation, so I figured I better get a post off. BTW, many months later it hit me,,,,,it wasn't just the butt view which indicated the moon that was meaningful. The number three was relevent. Well, hope I am not way out there,,,,,that perhaps some of you might relate. If not, oh well. Symbolism, it makes me smile. Jay Reply | Forward

#278

From: "Mary Ashley" Date: Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:44 am Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy maryladyoflight Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hi Jay :)))) > They mooned me. How can I ever forget that one.. :)) And blowing you off an exploding Mt St Helens.. LOL. BTW, I was really saddened that the inside of a tin of baked beans seemed to put you off doing sessions with me. As I said at the time, not everything is spectacular.. ah well. Regarding symbolism... I had been attempting a new form of emotional healing on myself, which I saw on the web.. It involves asking the sub for an image to represent an issue.. and then tapping certain meridian points. The image doesn't need to make sense.. In fact, there isn't any need to actually know what the core issue is.. just that there is a fear or general unease about 'something'. I have discovered that there isn't any need to tap the points, intention to resolve the issue is sufficient.. and that it works!!!!! The emotional issue was resolved. Quite profoundly too. Now, in hindsight, the image made 100% sense. I also discovered that more images presented themselves.. until they disolved into nothingness. These images too began to fit.. almost like 'proofs', even coming up in the course of conversations from other peoples mouths, days later. EG.. one image I got was of a chick and a fried egg. They seemed to alternate before my eyes.. then over a week later, I found myself listening to someone discussing which came first, the chicken or the egg. The image which followed that was of a bowling ball... Last night we had a huge electrical storm, which raged over head for hours. When I was a child, I was told that God was playing skittles. (A form of bowling in the UK.) I am only just beginning to explore this discovery.. and how it may be utilised. Perhaps it may be possible to heal others emotional pain.. to heal physical issues.. to resolve conflicts with others before they occur.. (I've got one coming up, so I can have a go.) The follow up images can only be beneficial to the client, regarding the healing side.. as if the 'proofs' are right, then the healing must be working. Right? And there is nothing like that personal experience to prove it. :)) Of course, as there is nothing new under the sun, I expect this form of healing has been around for eons.. still, it's new to me and maybe new to others here.. I am keen to learn more of how this sub providing the imagery for healing can be utilised, s, if others would like to have a go.. how they used it.. and let me know their results.. either here or on innerlight, or privately. :)) Mary Ashley pjrv : Messages : 284-438 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/284?)
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#284

From: joan003...nk.net Date: Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:59 pm Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy joanie003 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° <> Hi Jay, especially when it's mooning you? I recall the target you posted that included two religious symbols...one being Christ on the crucifix looking down..I kept getting the image of this warn torn ravaged city and a bunch of hobos, trying to get warm around an inner city fire and it was "Christmas time." One of the men present was this man that loomed large before me, looking down at me as if to say..."what are YOU doing here?" Despite it literally being a huge "aol" that would never work for strict CRV applications, the symbolism and the mood of what I experienced captured the feeling/aura for me. I really enjoyed that target immensely.... In the Spirit, Joanie Reply | Forward

#288

From: "Sharon Webb" Date: Tue Jul 30, 2002 4:27 pm Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy sharwebb_30512 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hi, I've noticed over and over how literal some symbols are. They are more often than not visual puns. The pun symbols seem to be "born on the spot" to convey a specific message, while the recurring symbols seem to be what Silva people call "points of reference" and seem meant to trigger a "knowing" that a certain condition exists --- in the same way that a yellow traffic light triggers the meaning of "caution." These recurring symbols are usually of meaning only to the individual practitioner while the visual puns can often be translated by anyone...as in the "moon" symbol you mention. It gets interesting when mental symbols translate into real life events. :-) Sharon sharwebb...net www.fractalus.com/sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: jsentient... Some of my most interesting and successful remote viewing sessions included symbolic images and notions. Some of the symbols I have learned over many different targets and are consistent, some occur but once. Usually, the first time a symbol comes, it also seems to come with a sense for what it might represent. That sense is very subtle. SNIP Reply | Forward

#291

From: jsentient... Date: Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:45 pm Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy jsentient Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hi Sharon, << These recurring symbols are usually of meaning only to the individual practitioner while the visual puns can often be translated by anyone.. >> I guess my wonder is that we get symbols at all. Why symbols? I do find symbolism fascinating in general. And, I believe it is intrinsically linked to PSI, but beyond that thought, I don't have any answers. Have you ever encountered a story which is rich in metaphor and hidden meaning? Hemingway wrote like that. One can discover symbols within symbols,,,,many levels of embedded and encoded representation. Quite a delight. I must say though, that my best remote viewing successes generally did not make use of symbols. In those I received extremely fast visual flashes. They are so fast I can barely capture them. And, they usually are quite surprising. I mention these flashes here because I wonder if anyone else gets these. I read nothing in the RV literature that indicates it can be part of RV perception. In fact, on the contrary, I find references that guard against any image that is "too" articulate and life like. Yet for me, these flashes can be almost photo quality. They are rare, but when I get them, they have always been a part of the target.....so far anyway. Anyway, back to symbols. Why are they so pervasive in PSI? (I don't really expect anyone to know) Must be a reason though. :) Jay Reply | Forward

#438

From: "dennanm" Date: Fri Aug 9, 2002 3:43 pm Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy dennanm Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Howdy Jay, > I guess my wonder is that we get symbols at all. Why symbols? I've been thinking about this. I have to theorize -- not very innovative of course -- that what we call reality is really our own symbolic interpretation of what physicists would consider a big energy soup, with a variety of vibrating energy. Perhaps when we tune into things via psi, we are technically going 'to the source' -- to the energy itself. And much of the time, it translates in our typical way. But perhaps, because it is a 'translation', the state of mind during our session affects how things come through. In other words, perhaps it's not just that 'some' RV data is symbolic. Perhaps everything in existence and ALL RV data is 'symbolic' -- it's simply that symbols which match our "consensus agreement about reality" we consider 'literal' simply because it matches what we think of as real. Maybe a viewer would get one data component one day; a symbolic component another day; something yet different on a third day; just depending on the flux of the consciousness (from body to emotions to mind to perhaps something else) of the viewer at any given time? Regards, PJ Reply | Forward

#293

From: "Sharon Webb" Date: Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:13 pm Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy sharwebb_30512 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Jay, I can only guess why symbols are so pervasive in psi, but my guess is that receiving is basically a function of the right brain which has no language. But the right brain can receive visual images, and the like. Then I think these concepts are sent through the corpus callosum of the brain into the left brain where it is translated into words. I think this accounts for not only psi, but also chanelling and other similar occurrences. I know what you mean by visual flashes. I get them so fast that they usually don't completely register. It's a sense of crystal clarity moving at the speed of lightning. If anyone knows how to slow them down I'd love to know the secret. The flashes give me the impression that if I could freeze frame them I'd really be amazed at the amount of detail they contain. Perhaps they do "stick" though in some fashion. Maybe they are related to what Robert Monroe called "rotes" and which I always thought of as thought balls. They come in very fast and leave whole (but fleeting) concepts in my mind. They never come in the form of words though and I'm usually very aware of the translation process when I try to relay the information they carry. Sharon sharwebb...net www.fractalus.com/sharon Reply | Forward

#302

From: aeonblue8008... Date: Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:24 pm Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy aeonblueau Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° In a message dated 7/30/2002 6:26:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sharwebb...net writes: > www.fractalus.com/sharon G'day! Sharon Absolutely lovely site! I'm an underground fractal junkie (aka the underground doesn't have a site link on the infinite fractal loop). When I saw Rose and Lace.... that's what I have been looking for, couldn't quite put my finger(mind) on it, that's it. (the effect 3-d) Beautiful work there gal. I now have XenoDream, hesitated coz this machine sucks enough of my time(mind) already :-) Keeping on with the subject of E-RV, I recently ERVed a fractal, was quite a ride, I worked several sessions. (when can you say enough is enough?) I always came out of session with the feeling I wasn't done and there was more to get. (such is the infinite fractal) , with taskers such as mine who needs enemies.. jus kidding... (fractal ='s mathematical formulas. Unending) Passed a bit on to Pendragon(BillPhD) re fractals, told him the universe comes down to a bar code.. (surprisingly he didn't think I was too far off for a blonde) Just poppin in real quick PJ..... i'm on holiday and I know I never say anything anyway . . . . . BTW.. great read Neuromancer, an old cyber punk classic. (folks usually respond duhhuh? to this question) A very must for RVer's, 5 stars IMO.. then add the movie The Thirteenth Floor.. all the best.... ~T~ hacking the matrix, what are hollidays for life's a beach bang on Reply | Forward

#306

From: "Sharon Webb" Date: Wed Jul 31, 2002 12:26 pm Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy sharwebb_30512 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hi, Thanks for the nice words about my site. And to bring this email back on subject, please tell more about what happened when you ERV'd the fractal. You referred to a wild ride. I wonder if you experienced anything like I did when I plunged into fractals on several occasions. It was certainly a subjective wild ride for me. It was as if I were sliding down deeper and deeper inside, and going faster and faster. Beat any carnival ride I've ever had...and prettier, too. Sharon sharwebb...net www.fractalus.com/sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: aeonblue8008... Keeping on with the subject of E-RV, I recently ERVed a fractal, was quite a ride, I worked several sessions. (when can you say enough is enough?) pjrv : Messages : 453-494 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/453?)
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#453

From: jsentient... Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 12:30 pm Subject: Re: Re: symbolism & autonomy jsentient Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° In a message dated 08/09/2002 8:36:58 PM Central Daylight Time, palyne...horizon.com writes: << Howdy Jay, > I guess my wonder is that we get symbols at all. Why symbols? I've been thinking about this. I have to theorize -- not very innovative of course -- that what we call reality is really our own symbolic interpretation >> Hi Palyne! You are too humble, your very innovative. Perhaps you might remember a recent beer commercial -- Budweiser, I believe -- which presented a question (generally a rather irrelevant and unanswerable question), and then a smart ass answer which went like this: Why ask why? And then went on to say, just enjoy the Bud. Why ask why? I'll tell you I just can't help it. Remote viewing is so damned amazing, and I am a scientist or at least a technician at heart. I want to know how everything works. Of course there is also the illusive thought that if one were to figure it out, one could become very good at it indeed. I think you are right,,,,,,,the symbolism is about representation and interpretation, and a significant part of reality must be, to an extent, an illusion. I also agree that both, individual and mutual perceptions are important. But beyond those considerations the questions go on and on. I have for some time had this subtle inclination, an uneasy gut feeling that I had to make a choice. There is no logic rationale for the feeling but it persists. The thought was, I could be a fairly good remote viewer, continuing to experience the awesome, or, I could be a researcher questioning and analyzing PSI,,,, but I could not do both. I had a dream about a week ago. It concerned this issue, understanding PSI. In the dream there was a place I could look and I would see all the answers, I would know how it works. The thing was, if I looked there, I would become blind, perhaps even insane. And, to make the dream really uncomfortable, looking there was almost impossible to avoid, it was like simple unavoidable awareness, like a part of consciousness itself. As I have mentioned in another thread on this list, I have no fear of PSI. After the dream I had to ask myself if maybe I had a fear of loss of PSI. However I think it is bigger than that. Obviously it's also about reality, and about being human. I wonder if there is a reason we do not know, a reason that PSI is illusive. As a researcher, one of my basic questions would be not why does PSI occur, but rather why doesn't PSI occur more. Why symbols? Hmmmm. Why ask why? I think I will just remote view for a while. ,,,,, this Bud's for you. Jay Reply | Forward

#454

From: "scottrver" Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 7:07 pm Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy scottrver Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hi All, I've thought a lot about why sometimes an RV session will be filled with symbols and almost always have severely distorted data that is nonetheless easily recognizable in the correct target from a pool. I'm sure I'm not the first to say this but I don't remember who to attribute what parts to. I think that what happens is that the raw perception comes into my brain usually very quickly - although sometimes it seems to last for a very long time (bilocation?). My brain is then searching for various schema in which to match these perceptions and sometimes it matches it metaphorically - hence the symbols. Scott Reply | Forward

#461

From: "dennanm" Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 11:36 pm Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy dennanm Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Hi Jay, > I have for some time had this subtle > inclination, an uneasy gut feeling that > I had to make a choice. There is no logic > rationale for the feeling but it > persists. The thought was, I could be a > fairly good remote viewer, > continuing to experience the awesome, or, > I could be a researcher questioning > and analyzing PSI,,,, but I could not do both. While some researchers have done psi work, and some viewers or psychics have done research work, top-caliber work in both areas is not done by the same person, perhaps because the mindset and experience of both at the extremes are nearly polarized. Or because it's not really workable to be totally objective about something one has to be totally immersed in (letting go of objectivity) sometimes to make happen. > I had a dream about a week ago. It concerned > this issue, understanding PSI. > In the dream there was a place I could look > and I would see all the answers, > I would know how it works. The thing was, if > I looked there, I would become > blind, perhaps even insane. And, to make the > dream really uncomfortable, > looking there was almost impossible to avoid, > it was like simple unavoidable > awareness, like a part of consciousness itself. Wow. That's interesting. I think our dreams often speak to us about our work in psi if we bother to remember them or consider them. Not long ago I had a really intense dream obviously about psi (about a third eye in my forehead, lol!) that sort of played on what in retrospect I'd consider a fear of a death of one part of me if another were allowed to 'become'. > As I have mentioned in another thread on > this list, I have no fear of PSI. Yeah that's what I said too. ;-) > After the dream I had to ask myself if maybe > I had a fear of loss of PSI. > However I think it is bigger than that. Obviously > it's also about reality, > and about being human. Yes, the dream I mentioned was more like that; that this affected not just doing a session, but a whole fundamental set of structures about who we are (and are not) and what reality is (and is not) and potentially a major revision or loss in those categories. > As a researcher, one of my basic questions > would be not why does PSI occur, > but rather why doesn't PSI occur more. Hmmmn. I think psi occurs close to 24/7. However, I think we have a lifetime of minute-to-minute practice in ignoring it. :-) PJ Reply | Forward

#464

From: "scottrver" Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:44 am Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy scottrver Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hi, >> The thought was, I could be a >> fairly good remote viewer, >> continuing to experience the awesome, or, >> I could be a researcher questioning >> and analyzing PSI,,,, but I could not do both. > > While some researchers have done psi work, and some viewers or > psychics have done research work, top-caliber work in both areas is > not done by the same person, perhaps because the mindset and > experience of both at the extremes are nearly polarized. Or because > it's not really workable to be totally objective about something one > has to be totally immersed in (letting go of objectivity) sometimes > to make happen. You can do both - I'm doing both right now and so have others. Some researchers are considered "psi conducive" and typically have significant personal experience in psi functioning. The trick is that if you want to participate in your own RV experiments you have to figure out how to target and judge yourself in a blind manner. I have software do the targeting and other people judge my sessions and that works. Otherwise, you can simply do remote viewing of targets not associated with your research. Scott ------------------------ Moderator's note: Great! Well as I mentioned, some HAVE done both. Keith Harary ("Blue" I believe he was known as, in the old days as a psychic) is just one who comes to mind. But he's neither one of the world's greatest viewers nor the world's greatest researchers -- at the 'extremes' I don't know anyone doing both, but perhaps it's just a matter of time for that to happen. :-) -- PJ Reply | Forward

#494

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sun Aug 18, 2002 11:48 am Subject: Re: Re: How Brain compiles visual concepts ..similiar to RV? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hello All, Did you ever wonder why RV information comes in as pieces instead of integrated whole. Here is an interesting study on how the brain organizes visual components..color/shape/position . Apparently these compoents of vision are stored separately in the brain first. Organization is cued by constant attention to one item at a time. It seems to me that this integration site may be the source of AOL drive. In RV we have to relearn how to access the unintegrated pieces before we can assemble them without invoking the programs that identify a bananna-like item as a bannana instead of a submarine. This also indicates that things with solitary items in them are going to be easier targets than complicated combinations of things. The brain needs to focus on one item at a time to organize impressions. Best Wishes, Bill (http://www.vanderbilt.edu/) Date: Posted 8/12/2002 Attention Acts As Visual Glue When you gaze at a bowl of fruit, why don't some of the bananas look red, some of the apples look purple and some of the grapes look yellow? This question isn't as nonsensical as it may sound. When your brain processes the information coming from your eyes, it stores the information about an object's shape in one place and information about its color in another. So it's something of a miracle that the shapes and colors of each fruit are combined seamlessly into distinct objects when you look at them. Exactly how the brain recombines these different types of visual information after it has broken them apart is called the "binding problem" and is currently the subject of considerable controversy in the neuroscience community. But the results of a brain mapping experiment, published online by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences on July 29, provide significant new support for the theory that attention is the glue that cements visual information together as people scan complex visual scenes. The study was a collaboration among René Marois, assistant professor of psychology at Vanderbilt; John C. Gore, who recently moved from Yale to become a Chancellor's University Professor at Vanderbilt; and Yale graduate student Keith M. Shafritz. "There are more than a dozen places in the brain involved with processing visual information, each specializing in information with slightly different attributes," says Marois. "Some specialize in processing color, some specialize in processing shape, while others specialize in movement. These areas are not clustered together, but distributed widely around the back of the brain." There are two leading theories about how the brain reintegrates this information. One view proposes that the neurons in the scattered areas are bound together in a way that allows them to act simultaneously. When you look at a banana, the neurons that store information about the banana's shape fire simultaneously with the neurons in a different region of the brain that store information about the banana's color. It is the direct functional interaction between neurons located in different visual areas that binds together an object's numerous visual properties. In the 1980's, Anne M. Triesman at Princeton and her colleagues advanced an alternative mechanism. She proposed that visual binding is mediated by the parietal cortex, an area of the brain known to be involved in spatial attention. She suggested that the act of focusing one's attention on an object's spatial location provides the key that binds the different types of visual information together. If an apple is sitting on the table in front of a woman, then her brain, specifically the parietal cortex, associates the information about its color and shape with its location and uses the spatial information to bind together the visual information whenever she focuses her attention on the apple. The description of a patient who, following a brain injury in the parietal lobe, had difficulty associating colors with more than one object at a time gave Marois the idea for the basic experiment. When the person was presented with objects one at a time, he had no problem properly pairing their shapes and colors. When presented with two or more objects at the same time, however, he often mismatched the color of one object with the shape of another. So Marois designed a series of trials that asked subjects to concentrate on the shape only, the color only or both shape and color of pairs of objects displayed on a computer screen while their brain activity was monitored using the technique called functional MRI. The researchers presented these pairs to the individuals either sequentially in the same location or simultaneously at different locations and recorded the areas in the brain that were most active. "The purpose of our study was really to test the attention theory as strongly as we could," says Marois. "I was actually surprised that it worked because we had to adopt such stringent testing conditions." Despite their stringency, the tests showed that activity in the parietal region increased significantly whenever the individuals were presented with more than one object at the same time. "This provides strong evidence in favor of the theory that spatial attention is the binding glue that the brain uses to integrate visual objects whenever it is presented with more than one object at the same time, which is most of the time," says Marois. While the study results support the attention theory, they do not rule out other mechanisms. "In fact," he adds, "it is practically certain that the brain uses several mechanisms to solve this fascinating problem." The project was funded by a grant from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke. For more news about research at Vanderbilt, visit Exploration, Vanderbilt's online research magazine at http://exploration.vanderbilt.edu . Reply | Forward

#469

From: jsentient... Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 3:02 pm Subject: Re: Re: symbolism & autonomy jsentient Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hi Palyne, << > As a researcher, one of my basic questions > would be not why does PSI occur, > but rather why doesn't PSI occur more. Hmmmn. I think psi occurs close to 24/7. However, I think we have a lifetime of minute-to-minute practice in ignoring it. :-) >> Could be,,,,but the question remains,,,,,,why would that be? Why would we do that? Shoot,,,,,there I go again, asking the why questions,,,LOL! Damn, it's almost like breathing. Jay Reply | Forward

#470

From: "dennanm" Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:06 pm Subject: Re: symbolism & autonomy dennanm Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Hiya Jay, > Hmmmn. I think psi occurs close to 24/7. > However, I think we have a > lifetime of minute-to-minute practice in ignoring it. :-) > Could be,,,,but the question remains,,,,,,why would that be? > Why would we do that? I think we have to. From the time we're babies, the primary survival activity is learning to interpret what our parents (etc.) perceive as "reality" from some gigantic energy soup. Like tuning in a radio station, I think much of our most formative years are constant fine- tuning of 'where' in a massive matrix or stream of frequencies the thing our parents call reality 'is'. When I was nursing my little girl, she would be lying there suckling and her eyes would be half open, staring straight ahead/up generally, kind of spaced out. One time I was remembering an experience I'd had with a hands-on energy worker, and I casually visualized a stream of gold sparkly light going out of my forehead in a spiral and into hers, and the moment I did it, her little eyes popped WIDE open in astonishment and stared at my forehead in utter fascination. Then it was my turn to be astonished -- I hadn't thought about her physically SEEING it, I just wanted to give her some mommy-love energy in that way at that time. I used to play with that a lot then, just to get her reaction. I just couldn't get over how she responded. Also when she was a baby, my husband Lu and I finally decided, with no doubt whatever, that she was clearly operating in more than one of what we'd call dimension. She'd be sitting there in the giant bean bag, for example. We'd be working on our computers. Then she'd look over, doing a sort of double take, and then laugh delightedly. Then would entail a period of two to 15 minutes where she giggled and responded exactly as she did when WE were playing peek-a-book and such with her... except... she was playing with someone who as far as WE were concerned, was simply not there. I mean there was no doubt whatever that she was having an engaging interaction with someone. It's just that we couldn't see the someone. The bottle (when she was older) was another thing. It simply popped in and out of existence constantly. We thought we were imagining this for a long time of course. We finally decided we weren't. If WE put it somewhere, like say, on our bedside table, it would be there eternally if necessary, until we went to get it. If SHE put it there, it might not be there. We could be looking everywhere for it, and it was not there. I could repeatedly look somewhere, thinking it HAD to be there because she hadn't gone anywhere, and it wouldn't be there. He could look as well. We'd both look. We'd get hacked off and go make another. Then, without her moving, it would just be there. At first, you think this is overlooking something obvious, but after awhile with this kind of thing happening constantly it becomes clear something else is going on. It's like any object in her hand that got put down might or might not actually be "here" as we know it, as if her 'aim' wasn't 100% clean yet... although if we looked at looked, with her present to perceive this (to whatever ability she might have had at that age), eventually it would simply pop into existence in a place we had looked at least 20 times and often was right there in front of us. These three things are just little things, and they didn't form my theory on babies having to learn to 'tune in' the reality of their parents (that's been covered by a zillion authors including Casteneda and Seth), but those things did seem to support the theory. Just thoughts... PJ Reply | Forward

#471

From: "Nita...ulse.com" Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:11 pm Subject: Re: Re: symbolism & autonomy nitahickok Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hi PJ We are also taught that to see things other people don't see is wrong. It is probably why a lot of people have to relearn psi abilities. We all have them but some people have them really blocked off because of childhood programming. It is overwhealming with some abilities to go through life on this crowded planet. The person really has to learn to turn psi abilities on and off at will. The failures are under medication in a mental hospital or not functioning in society at all. Nita The early bird still has to eat worms Reply | Forward

#472

From: "Sharon Webb" Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:06 pm Subject: Re: Re: symbolism & autonomy sharwebb_30512 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Palyne, I noticed a similar thing with my grandson when he was a few months old. I "showered" him with golden energy, and he looked at me with astonishment and then laughed. :-) Sharon sharwebb...net www.fractalus.com/sharon > I casually visualized a stream of > gold sparkly light going out of my forehead in a spiral and into > hers, and the moment I did it, her little eyes popped WIDE open in > astonishment and stared at my forehead in utter fascination. Reply | Forward

#473

From: joan003...nk.net Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:50 pm Subject: Re: Re: symbolism & autonomy joanie003 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Hiya Jay :-) I found insights to the questions that you ask in reading folks like Robert Anton Wilson, "Coincidance," anything by Starhawk (Spiral Dance for one) and the tradition of Creation Spirituality ala Matthew Fox, Brian Swimme (a scientist/cosmologist), and Thomas Berry - (get his lectures...this is EXACTLY what he's been talking about for years!). :-))) Also in studying the nature of fractals, crop circle formations, and holograms and true magic/medicine and how it manifests...synchronicity. I think of The Tao of Chaos by Katya Walter. And most recently Dr. Simeon Hein in Opening Minds goes simply and deeply into why this 24/7 in touch with the mystery of Creation is knocked out of us by the conditioning of the mechanized world (we have evolved towards)? you jest gotta get that book if this is on your mind. Children get 35,000 commercials before they even start grade school..hmmmm...do you think that could influence them away from a creation synchronicity cosmology and into a cosmology that revolves around consumerism and the CLOCK? If the Clock dictates our time for the most part, how are we to ever be in touch with the minute to minute...hey remember the poets like William Blake? that was before the Clock was a false god :-) zeee poets of old...or the Aboriginals and the Dreamtime. On the clock, I recall hearing Sister Jose Hobday, a Seneca woman speak from her experience years ago...and she said...that her elders had told her..."There's one thing that you need to learn about the white folks and that's that they rule their lives by the clock." gosh...I feel sickened to know how true that conditioning is with me..and I LOVE my watch as well..can't be without it...drives me crazeee...must be the flowers on it. personally for alarm clocks, I use a Zen alarm clock,. which has a ding based on what it is ...that seashell theory??? fibonacci spirals I think......and only when I absolutely am in fear of not rising in the morning...we don't have cocks that crow in my neighborhood...sigh....:-0 O I lament I lament I lament....just as you do...but really I think there are some pretty good folks that have put together some ideas on why we ignore the 24/7 psi... they're out there....check 'em out Bro!!! Love ya, Joanie Reply | Forward

#477

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 6:13 pm Subject: Re: Re: symbolism & autonomy maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Invite to Yahoo! 360° Aloha PJ, When I was pregnant with my first child/son...I tried an experiment of 'going in' to visit ...This occurred just after his quickening...around 6 mos. or so,,,I always sang and talked and taught the ABC's /asnd 1-10...aloud to him... but this time...I decided to try and communicate on a psi level... I got very still/calm... and began to go into my body (mentally)and into the womb and then into my child...I used the most loving and beautiful silent voice to say and send...Aloha...(Love and hello) He immediately (swiftly!) curled into an extremely hard knot on one side of my belley and trembled...He was terrified...It took me some time to convince the tiny critter that I meant well and no harm...hahahah...and to calm him... I think he thought he was god and alone untill then...his religion must have been that of my heart beating...What a culture shock for him it must have been...Must have been akin to a loud yet silent voice coming from the sky and the whole world reverberating with it in shock... I had most whole heartedly desired a daughter...and almost had myself convinced ...it was a girl...but shortly after this visit...a knowing came...I believe sent (probably chemically)... that my baby to be was a boy...and by the time he was born... I was very happy with this......I got the girl next...and that is a whole nother story...Her name is Deja and that was way before the song!...haha I also breast fed and practised psi with my little ones...it works well untill they get older and then the line gets thinner...but can usually be reutilized with some hard work throughout their life...To a much lessor degree of course... I have always intuited that they are geniuses (all babies) ...and that they know all the answers to the secrets...humynity has yearned for)...as we all were tiny gods & geniuses... and the shock of the flesh ...combined with the ignorance of our parents and their parents...on ad finitum...reduces us to amnesia...and even lowers potential IQ...not to mention EQ...of course there are always exceptions...... Babies are my favorite people... because they are not only adorable and funny...but because they are the most genuine of all...They remind us all... that there is hope ...their existance gives credance to our existance...and the feeling that ...this could be the one...to help us all mature...... Like Drum preyed in 'Roots"..."Is you da one chile...is you da one?"...I also held each of my new born children up ...to the sheltering arms of a giant tree and sent my wishes and gratitude for their shelter and nurturance and that this child might know and understand their significance...I am sorta of a reborn pagan......I still knock on wood!...hahaha Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna

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