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RV Oasis / PJRV Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/
Filetype: Archive. Topic: Remote Viewing. Blocked: by topic detail.
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/pjrv/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/pjrv/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



begin archive


pjrv : Messages : 3621-3623 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3621?)
15:55:14
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#3621

From: "Elizabeth Hambrook" Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 6:47 am Subject: Re: Social Avoidance ozblueriver Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > I got a PEM a few weeks ago from an old friend, > griping that there is little talk on most the RV > related lists and what talk there is, is often trivial. Hi PJ, I think this is a 'problem' not only on the net but in our lives as well. How many of us have someone in our lives we can have a truely deep and meaningful conversation with. It rarely happens and that's why most of us chat on the net in the first place .......because no one in our lives cares less about psi let alone RV. So we get on the net and yes most of the conversation is still trivial but there is an undercurrent of knowing that we all connect with our interest in psi and that if and when something crops up that we need to discuss then we have at least a couple of people who will understand where we are coming from. Then there is the bigger picture. Evolution is slow and steady. And keeping that in mind, I think the collective 'We' makes the smaller 'we' keep growth and learning at that steady slow pace. Maybe it's just not time yet to have lots of good indepth conversations because most people aren't quite ready for it yet. So the vanguards that bravely forge ahead need to keep a partial silence until information is needed by the collective 'We'. This would all be on an unconscious level and it's only my theory but you never know, I could be right about something one day. LOL cheers Liz Reply | Forward

#3623

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 12:01 am Subject: Re: Social Avoidance maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 PJRV is coming back...and PJ has a new group about to start...doing sessions at TTR...Imagine how she felt... when she first came back after 4 years...She was real bummed... The old timers don't want to be seen arguing in public...They rather keep it in house...Like most religions pjrv : Messages : 3619-3691 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3619?)
16:02:10
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#3619

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:18 pm Subject: Social Avoidance pjgaenir Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Speaking of avoidance. I got a PEM a few weeks ago from an old friend, griping that there is little talk on most the RV related lists and what talk there is, is often trivial. It occurred to me to wonder, if the people who are Serious with a capital S don't bother talking, don't bother participating, how can they complain that they don't relate to what is on the discussion lists? They could help set the tone and the standard if they contributed. Yet they have nothing to do with it, they sit back like an audience, and then gripe because the only people who seem to do much talking anywhere, don't seem serious or focused enough for them. Any group could be a 'serious and focused' list with just a few 'serious and focused' conversationalists. I wonder what it is in the RV field that makes people so reclusive about discussing actual RV. I'm not talking about sharing super personal stuff, just RV. Have we evolved (devolved?) into a more politically correct, kinder, gentler kind of field? Or is it related to the internal changes? I find I often very much feel like 'holding my energy'--feel like closing down on the outside, and I want to avoid communication altogether. I am forced to get over it by the nature of my job. But perhaps the internal changes that all developing viewers go through, contribute to their not being in the mood to communicate at all, let alone with a whole list. We've got whole groups of methods people who take themselves very seriously, and have the potential for wonderful conversation, mutual education and more, but not much of it happens, and when they de-lurk to talk, it's mostly to attack something, not discuss RV. What can be done about it. Nothing I guess. Not by anybody but them. Or is it just a matter of 95% of the population waiting for the 5% that actually does something to get around to doing it so they can watch? I felt frustrated. There are so many awesome people in this field, almost none of whom I get to talk with anywhere near as much as I'd like, some I end up emailing once a year and just feeling guilty about. Many of them, will talk PEM but not on lists. I see a lot of potential in the field that is not being very well explored. I want to be able to discuss daily hands-on practice issues, personal stuff, theory--"serious" conversation as some might think of it. But I don't know how to do that unless the lurkers help create the kind of talk they'd like to see more of. PJ PS Am just trying to wind myself down to sleep here, tomorrow the tot will be up early for presents! Bet I'm putting everybody else to sleep too, LOL. But stop me when I'm wrong... this seems like one of those things that is patently obvious but nobody ever talks about. Reply | Forward

#3620

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:59 pm Subject: Re: On serious discussion docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hello PJ, I think there are lots of reasons for this. Just a few I've noted: 1) the people that teach classes in RV are not much interested in giving advanced secrets away free on the lists. 2) they constrain their senior students from doing the same thing. 3) There is a mix of levels of skill and always new people such that repetition of basics gets monotonous, and requires a little silliness just to stay alive and worth reading. 4) Many people around for along time enjoy chatting with each other on a personality level which adds zest to the discussion if not overdone. 5) There is a huge diversity of opinion at all levels that causes constant bickering. FINALLY..6) There just isn't that much to say 365 days a year that is serious and thoughtful and NEW. This is not to discourage serious and novel discussion..but my understanding of why it is hard to find. Best Regards, Bill Reply | Forward

#3628

From: "Bill and Sandy Ray" Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:03 pm Subject: RE: On serious discussion firedust2 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, PJ, and All I am not quite sure why there is a lack of serious discussion. What RV discussion there is seems to be abstract. When there is a mechanical or a solid question, I think there is plenty of discussion including comments from the more experienced viewers. But there is nothing wrong with having this as a social net first and an RV discussion group second. I am not sure there are secrets in RV. Practice, hard work, and staying in structure seem to work real well. The more you do RV the more likely you are to recognize what is going on. I think there is a lot of RV talent out there. I was very impressed by everyone who worked the out bounder we did a while back. Slainte Bill Ray ------------------- Well what's odd is, I can have discussion till the cows come home with 20 people via PEM about remote viewing and related personal experience, but that stuff never makes it to a public list, where others could share in it, even though much of it is not really that personal. I also find it interesting that questions related to say, psychological resistance to psi get no play like nobody encounters that, making me seriously wonder how many people are really viewing frankly, yet some minor point of methodology can go on forever. It seems to me that the experiential aspect of RV is almost avoided in online discussion. Which to me is the most interesting part of it all. PJ Reply | Forward

#3629

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:39 pm Subject: People/Animal Data in Targets docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, Here is a serious question for you. I have a hard time getting "people" and animals at the target. If I do it's because they have an unusual garment or angle to there face. So what's the secret to getting a signal that says "human or animal is here without having to sketch an entire face? Best Regards, Bill Reply | Forward

#3636

From: "Bill and Sandy Ray" Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:31 pm Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets firedust2 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill > Here is a serious question for you. I have a hard time > getting "people" and animals at the target. If I do > it's because they have an unusual garment or angle to > there face. So what's the secret to getting a signal > that says "human or animal is here without having to > sketch an entire face? Good to hear from you. I will try to keep this short, but I think it will be necessary to look at several types of RV in order to get a better understanding of ways to deal with the problem. Please remember what I am saying is just my opinion based on my own experience and training. CRV deals with this quite easily. In stage 4 people and animals come in under the T (tangibles) column. There is a lot of information out there that you can pick up about the person or animal under the I (Intangible), S2, and D (Dimension) columns. My favorite is the EI (Emotional Impact) column, which will give you what emotions people at the site are feeling, and to a lesser extent what animals are feeling. Stage 5 can provide more information and you can always go back and sketch at anytime during the CRV process after you have gotten past stage 2. ERV is an excellent way to pick up information about people. IMO, ERV will provide more information than CRV about folks (I bet Paul and Lyn would dispute me on that), but it might not provide the information as rapidly. You may have to go back on two or three sessions to get the information. It is almost like you have to wear the person down by going back again and again to get the information. You get the information by asking the person at the site questions. There is another phenomena in ERV which is similar, IMO, to stage 5 in CRV in that at some point you just know the information. The monitor can ask you to describe the person and you will be able to provide not only a fairly accurate (sometimes) description but perhaps such things as motivation, Secrets, education, past employment and other abstract concepts that you would not be able to get if you were physically at the site. Hope this helps, if not let me know and I will try again. Slainte, Bill Ray Reply | Forward

#3638

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:30 pm Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, Thanks I appreciate it. I like the idea of monitoring the EI column carefully for emotions.. different than your own. A subtle art form worth cultivating..G. ... But re using ERV. One has to "know" a person is there before asking him/her questions.. how do you first get that there is a person when doing ERV? Do you have an inner "energy signature" or EI for a human first? Reply | Forward

#3644

From: "Monika Preston" Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:39 am Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets karimchris Online Now Send IM Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, Do you also agree that in over time, using the CRV method, the viewer can develop an ideogram for stage 1 that indicates life? Therefore, sometimes, a viewer can pick up that the main target is a person/animal already during this stage? Thanks, monika Reply | Forward

#3647

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:18 pm Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Monika, I find that the ideogram is very helpful and informational..but not reliable for giving me lifeform data. Frequently a loop will mean something else rather than life for me anyway. The only thing that works ( not all the time) is dowsing for that information. Best Regards, Bill Reply | Forward

#3654

From: "Bill and Sandy Ray" Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:34 pm Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets firedust2 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Monika I have seen several people, including yourself, develop ideograms for animals or people. I have never done so myself. I tend to believe that whatever works for an experienced viewer is OK to use. I would caution new viewers to be a little careful in this area. Stage 1 is the general gestalt of the site. Stage 2 may give you voices, which lets you know there are people at the site. Stage 4 is where I first normally pick up people at the site. If the site was Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, you would expect to pick up an ideogram for structure and one perhaps for land. If an inexperienced viewer also picked up an ideogram for people (hunchback ringing a bell) it might drive the viewer to focus on the people at the site, and not the site itself, which was the structure. But again, whatever works for an experienced viewer, like yourself, is great. Bill > Do you also agree that in over time, using the CRV method, the viewer can > develop an ideogram for stage 1 that indicates life? > Therefore, sometimes, a viewer can pick up that the main target is a > person/animal already during this stage? Reply | Forward

#3656

From: "Monika Preston" Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:23 pm Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets karimchris Online Now Send IM Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, I am just a student of the very best, most patient CRV teacher out there :-) and you know whom I mean :-) Yes, stage 1 should provide the general gestalt. However, if the target is in fact a life form (animal/human), would that not mean that this IS the general gestalt? And the description of the surrounding comes later in the session? Or does general gestalt mean in all cases the surrounding area? Geez, hope this is not a stupid question LOL Just an example: Got a phone call from a friend with coordinates. My first impression was an AOL: Toby-brown hair. (Toby is my friend's dog) Then I had ideograms for trees, structure, and water. My hand still wanted to draw the ideogram for life. But, still pre-occupied by the AOL, I refused the impulse that it was a life form I was viewing. In stage 2 I felt a strong emotional impact. Like I was crouching, crawling, and fearful. Close to the earth, a higher sense of smell. Stage 4 finally brought me back to hair, hiding, and curling up, cold. Anyway, target was a neighbor's dog being lost. He was found a day later close to the water in the shrubs, near the site where they dig sand out of the water. All the best and Happy New Year!!! monika Reply | Forward

#3688

From: "Bill and Sandy Ray" Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 11:47 am Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets firedust2 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Monika Thanks for the kind words. I agree with you if the viewer is an experienced viewer. If the viewer has the experience to handle this with out going over to the left side of his brain to try and logic out what his sub-conscious is trying to tell him. Most complex targets will not get resolved until Stage 4 anyway, so at what point you pick up people or animals may not be that important. As for your example, it is an example of an experienced viewer. More than that it is an example of a very good, experienced CRVer, who is also an ERVer. I would suspect that you worked that site as much ERV as you did CRV. Your normal CRVer will not be able to do that. Good hearing from you Slainte Bill Reply | Forward

#3691

From: "Monika Preston" Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 1:27 pm Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets karimchris Online Now Send IM Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, Guess you're right. I probably mixed CRV and ERV without really noticing it. However, I actually prefer the structured CRV when I work alone. But as you noticed, ERV must have slipped in :-) It's so good to participate in RV discussions again, haven't had the time to do that for quite a while, nor did I have the time to practice much lately. monika Reply | Forward

#3664

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Fri Jan 2, 2004 2:22 am Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > Bill Ray wrote: Stage 4 is where I first > normally pick up people at the > site. Hi Bill.. Hmmmm Maybe I had better read about stage 4. I normally stop after stage 3. Perhaps that's the reason for this block..G Bill ------------------- Much of a session's value starts at Stage 4. How could you leave this out?! Oh. Is it 'cause you took just a basic CRV course? PJ Reply | Forward

#3630

From: "smitty97006" Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 6:45 pm Subject: Re: On serious discussion smitty97006 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 I think Mr Bill is exactly right. Gene

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