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Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/
Filetype: Archive. Topic: Remote Viewing. Blocked: by topic detail.
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/pjrv/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/pjrv/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



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pjrv : Messages : 1117-1218 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/1117?)
22:56:25
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#1117

From: "PJ Gaenir" Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 10:39 am Subject: Sessions 2.20.1 and 2.20.2 dennanm Offline Offline Send Email Send Email This is a learning experience someone else might find of value. I'd had several targets miles off (I believed) and quit practicing for a month to 'work on my psychology' as I felt my subconscious was deliberately sabotaging me. (It might have been. But in retrospect, I am just so overly critical about my performance that I'm taking it far too seriously!) Then when I began again, I had three days where I couldn't get data on anything. Even wrong data! Finally I told myself to get a move on and 10/30 decided to do a 'real' session with a theta cooldown etc. Was repeatedly interrupted in a state of mind where an interruption would startle me to the extreme, but anyway, you get what you get so I kept on. I felt I made target contact. The feedback, though, only had a few things in common with my session. But I felt SURE that I had described what I knew from the feedback had to be mere feet from the feedback focus itself. I mean it's one thing to describe something "near" but this was intimately involved with what the target was doing, not entirely separable. I finally gave in, and blew the protocol by going out to find additional feedback to see if my descriptions had just been utter fabrication - my biggest fear - or if there was some reason for my repeating data I felt so sure of. The session quite well matches the feedback if one includes the second feedback. Joe told me it was a targeting problem. Essentially it's not a beginning target (I knew that) and in a perfect practice world I wouldn't have put it in my target pool without the "context" it was involved with. Of course, the two pieces of totally symbolic data made perfect sense once I saw the feedback, as usual, but were baffling in session, lol. I have scanned the session, feedbacks, intro notes and ending notes into a PDF file. Warning, it's big, 18 pages or so and nearly 3megs, it'll take awhile to get fully downloaded in your browser even on DSL. Might be easier to right-click the link below and "save as" to your hard drive and THEN open from there and delete when done. I scanned at high res sorry. http://www.firedocs.com/pjrvstuff/Session-2.20.pdf Page 10, 11, top of 12, top of 15, top of 16 are the data summaries -- the rest is illegible so I recommend just looking at those. I'd have typed notes but people are often going on about "raw data" so I thought I'd post another raw one, ought to once in awhile. PJ Reply | Forward

#1121

From: "PJ Gaenir" Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 11:14 am Subject: Re: Sessions 2.20.1 and 2.20.2 dennanm Offline Offline Send Email Send Email And a bit of humor - I was wondering about the session data right near the end, which was so interesting an experience, "What was the zillions of little pieces of energy" all over?! Right after I got the first feedback on that session I sighed, went in and checked email, and a friend sent me a link to an article re: some upcoming physics research, and I read the line, "What may be thought of as empty space is actually teeming with fleeting particles and electromagnetic fields." And I groaned! I guess that this might have related to the data.... this coming so close to feedback on a target in space. :-) PJ Reply | Forward

#1142

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 6:36 pm Subject: Re: Displacement experience docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 I was working a target and had the problem that too much info was comming in.. streams of information but different each time I viewed. Normally I dont have that problem.. But at least three separate target descriptions came accross IMO..the dats just poured out but an unrelated chaos of things. One was a man with hand out in front of the corner of a brown building on a busy street in a big city .. Two other scenes came accross totally unrelated I won't discuss herre.... but the next day while reading the new york times .. duh duh! There was the scene I had RVed..with the exact shape and color of building and a mans extended hand.."Wow!" I think.."I displaced from Eve's tasking all the way to the NY times". Eve your RI is weak!....G Best Regards, Bill Reply | Forward

#1150

From: "Greg Kolodziejzyk" Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 3:46 pm Subject: RE: Displacement experience gregkolodzie... Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi folks, it's Greg here - I'm new to the group. On displacement: Don't forget that there is a TON of randomness going on here as well. This may differ from what some of you may think, but I believe the research data implies this: sometimes when you remote view, you think of completely useless, random stuff which has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Sometimes when you flip a coin that happens, and sometimes when you roll the dice, random outcomes also occur. I know, it's depressing to accept that occasionally your investment into a session of time and energy goes to complete waste, but I'm afraid that not only is that a fact of remote viewing, it's also a fact of life. Bill - I'm not suggesting that you DIDN'T displace from your target to the New York Times, but I'm suggesting that it's a very real and surprisingly strong possibility. There are times where you will record ACCURATE perceptions about an ALTERNATE ARV target or even your dinner that are just unlucky random coincidences. Don't discount the fact that shit happens because it's statistically likely to. On the other hand (here's where I start arguing with myself) - perhaps the cause of all displacement is the fact that you looked for it. (food for thought...) Regards, Greg K http://www.remote-viewing.com/
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-PJRV_group------------- Moderator's note: Research says that about 30% of the data in any given session can apply to about 30% of the targets in any given pool. Actually we talked about all this some time ago as well. It is sort of demoralizing in a way. On the other hand, the "chicken and egg" question of whether it's displacement if you notice it, vs. merely error if you didn't, is a tough one. :-) PJ Reply | Forward

#1168

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 8:13 pm Subject: RE: Displacement experience docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Greg, Great to have you on board! Actually , I'm used to displacement in ARV and take it as a matter of course and try to dismiss it from my mind. But I hadn't had it happen dramatically in regular RV yet.. that blew my mind.. I wasn't looking for it at all. But I was way too insistent that I "get something" during the session IMO.. I've decided to lock in my target better by constantly reminding myself.".target data only target data only." as I do in ARV.. Best Regards, Bill.
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-PJRV_group--------- The first time I insisted I 'get data' when I wanted more, I described in detail a fountain that did not begin to exist in my target (I had water near the center of the target and was pressing really hard to get something more detailed on what turned out to be a shallow, amorpheous semi-pond probably left by rain). It was the center focus in my next target, though. :-) A session I did a few months ago I think it was, I did that again, and got a clear moving visual of a guy climbing down the short ladder of the side of a boat, like a big yacht or something. Ended the session, got feedback, session sucked, went through pictures with my kid and saw nearly all the details of my session except that one really vivid one. Disgusted, agreed to watch a Disney movie with her, came in and sat down and first thing I saw was the exact scene from the session. Sigh. I guess I just wasn't focused enough. Sometimes I think the best value to doing a LOT of RV is learning when it is NOT working, when better contact is not happening, when more data is not coming -- and letting that be okay. I'm still working on that. -- PJ Reply | Forward

#1183

From: "Glyn" Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 1:16 pm Subject: RE: Displacement experience gebega Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi PJ and all, > PJ said... > .......Disgusted, agreed to watch a Disney > movie with her, came in and sat down and first > thing I saw was the exact scene from the session. > Sigh. I guess I just wasn't focused enough. > Sometimes I think the best value to doing a LOT > of RV is learning when it is NOT working, when > better contact is not happening, when more data is > not coming -- and letting that be okay. I'm > still working on that. -- PJ I sympathise, that happens to me soooo many times, and if I could get RV images as clear I would be a very happy bunny :-). Something is going on here, because people often report such apparent 'displacement' impressions/images as really clear and accurate. Now surely if it was a matter of t lack of focus causing us to go to another target, then the data should come through about as clearly as our normal impressions when RVing. But that is not so, they can be much much better; like you said above 'the exact scene'. Why?? Which is why experiential sites like yours are so valuable PJ.. To keep people writing in about their day to day RVing experiences and observations, even if they are perceived to be failures; and the comments about the apparently but unusual things; and ponderings like yours. We *need* to know about the failures as well as the successes, and examine them......... because one day some parts of the jigsaw may (probably will) just 'pop' to the surface and click together nicely. Something you can't really design an experiment to catch because you don't know what you're looking for. It's a matter of keeping our eyes open and noses to the ground; like a bunch of RV Bloodhounds :-) Regards, Glyn. Reply | Forward

#1169

From: "Greg Kolodziejzyk" Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 9:56 pm Subject: RE: Displacement experience gregkolodzie... Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > Greg K's comment on moderators note: > "Moderator's note: Research says that about 30% > of the data in any given session can apply to > about 30% of the targets in any given pool. > Actually we talked about all this some time ago > as well. It is sort of demoralizing in a way. > On the other hand, the "chicken and egg" question > of whether it's displacement if you notice it, > vs. merely error if you didn't, is a tough one. > :-) PJ" That's EXACTLY right on PJ. As part of my really really complicated and time consuming ARV protocol (it's really not as much fun as I make it sound), I 'pull out' the very best RV perceptions and compare them to 100 random photographs to QUANTIFY how good the hit really was. You would be surprised at how often your "wow - I am amazing" hits match random pictures by chance. It is humbling but ARV works much better when you are BRUTALLY honest. gk Reply | Forward

#1186

From: "Sharon Webb" Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 6:36 pm Subject: Re: Displacement experience sharwebb_30512 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi, Displacement happens quite often in Silva work, too. Often I am aware of it enough to feel that it is someone else I am reading instead of the target. When that happens, I tell the inquirer (if he/she is present) that I'm getting info, but I think it may not apply to the person targeted. In almost every case, it will turn out to be someone related closely to the target...like brother, brother-in-law, etc. And the info is usually very distinctive to that other person. Sharon sharwebb...net www.fractalus.com/sharon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Forward

#1205

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 3:01 pm Subject: Re: Displacement experience maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha Glyn, )It's a matter of keeping our eyes open and noses to the ground; like a bunch of RV Bloodhounds :-){ Hey I like that...RV Bloodhounds...haha...What were they called in Heinlein's "Stranger In A Strange Land"?... Truthsayers?...or was it Fair Witness? One of the things we are required to do at PIA... is give the % of the descriptors ...we think we got correct...before feedback...as well as pick the correct photo...I have had several times when I felt I was so 'with the signal'...that I even gave myself 100%... Well I don't do that too often anymore... Seems like a curse or something... Most of the time...I could see where my analysis made a wrong turn and how the descriptors could clearly have identified the correct photo for me...If I had only been more focused and analytical and more aware/discriminating...when judging...if... The ones I truly hate...are the ones that don't fit anything...This type is rare... but makes itself known ...just enough... to bum one out!... I now try to mindset myself not to believe nor disbelieve...in my data...simply suspend disbelief (as we say in the theatre...and I am lucky to have had some practice at that)...and just record that data...because as you and PJ have mentioned ...the best ones of all ...are not the target ...usually......and when I let my feelings get into the rhelm of judging...it is about 50-50...Well usually... I have to switch up my personal experimental program every now and then......or else I have been taking a downturn...and 3-5 of those is a bummer... I don't know if I could hang in there from 25 or so straight losses...Like MeMoneagle...That man has an elastic ego...Man that is preserverance... Of course I am thinking/ investigating/ or at least paying attention to...... every seemingly tangential variable that comes along...each in its turn... I think...biorythyms are important...In spite of the fact... that I could be setting myself up...except for the fact that I do not know at what thresholds ...of the four known biorythyms(Intellectual/Physical/Intuitional/Emotional)... psi may be effected ...or even if any of them do have an effect...just a hunch... Perhaps psi is higher when we hit a biorythmic intuitional middle/low...then when at a very high level...seems logical...if this correlates with the currant assumptions on LST...SWS... also assuming I understand what I just read...This is only one possible assumption...obviously...less wind ...less noise...less stress...less chaos...less assault on the senses...?...My intellectual rythyms are currantly due for a dive... so if this doesn't make any sense...that is my excuse for the next few days... PS...The self direction... where we cue ourselves to view only the Feedback Photo...(not both choices)...well...the self doesn't always listen...... but I keep trying...works for a while...I always mention it in passing...to myself...but I think I am better at this lately... I think my focus is getting better...we'll see... Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Forward

#1207

From: "Glyn" Date: Sun Nov 10, 2002 11:40 am Subject: RE: Displacement experience gebega Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Dawna, > I think...biorythyms are important... Ooops! all 4 cycles are at a low but going up. I have a 'bug' at the moment and am feeling very low, so you never know. > Perhaps psi is higher when we hit a biorythmic intuitional > middle/low...then when at a very high level... I've now decided not to look at these things in advance, but after the session I record such things, and anything else I think could be significant. > but I keep trying...works for a while...I always mention it in > passing...to myself...but I think I am better at this lately... I think > my focus is getting better...we'll see... Oh it's so frustrating isn't it?! I'm of two minds about this 'viewing the photo' (feedback) or 'going to the target' thing. I know that viewing the feedback is considered as a sort of second-class thing. Well personally I 'm grateful for the smallest mercies, and as long as I get something of the target I'm not that fussed where it comes from :-). I'll leave such discrimination for when I get far more successful at RV. Personally I think it's all one and the same anyway, but that's tantamount to heresy in some circles I think, so I'll leave that discussion for sometime in the future when I'm in the mood and have the strength . LOL! Kind regards, Glyn Reply | Forward

#1218

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 2:05 am Subject: Re: Displacement experience maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha Glynn, I hear where your coming from...and I am with you...I will use it...if it works...I will continue to use it...whatever it is......As long as some technique helps bring in the info...I am for it!~...hahaha Yeah I check the Bio chart after I view...(of course I kinda know where they are at anyway)...but the sidereal clock is ever present.....right on the screen at all times... I did the majority of all my views at PIA...quick and dirty...in alpha with chaos all around...and only a little cool down... So now...I am trying to get some peaceful more controlled environment ones in at Theta...(not REM...just into theta)...and my hits have definately gone up...so far Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna

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