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Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/
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Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



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pjrv : Messages : 3673-3673 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3673?)
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#3673

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Sat Jan 3, 2004 12:40 am Subject: RV Rock and Roll! pjgaenir Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 I started that last post depressed, and ended up inspired. That is funny! Maybe most things are how you look at them. In the bible, there is this place where God (allegedly the good guy in that book...!) is going to wipe out this city and there is this friend of God's trying to save it, going, "Lord, if there be TEN people who are righteous?" and then, "If there be THREE?" and so on. Sometimes when I am ready to chuck the entire online RV field as a bunch of 90% inertic and 9% flaming ego, I think of that. I think, are there 10 people worth it? Yes. There are. And there will be in the future. And there are people reading Joe's books who work on it and aren't even online, but someday might be and might deserve support. There really IS, despite the entropia and politics of the field, a core that is genuinely worth supporting, in the present, and for the future. There are people who three years from now may read these very words in an archive and think, "I'm glad someone cared enough to do something, and didn't let the bozos get in their way or get them down." It's a bigger picture than any of us see, as I realize every time I get email from firedocs from someone I never heard of, almost tearfully grateful for finding what seems real, no-BS RV info. I'm getting more upbeat now. I think maybe the RV is coming to a decision point crux of sorts. Where the old energy of division and secrecy and even outright avoidance of RV itself (talk is cheap!) will meet head to head with the new energy of friendly integration and open information and actual hands-on work and community. It will be interesting from a sociological and metaphysical view, regardless of the outcome. I get a vote. I say, it IS time to rock and roll! It's past time. PJ pjrv : Messages : 3676-3748 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3676?)
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#3676

From: "Elizabeth Hambrook" Date: Sat Jan 3, 2004 12:57 am Subject: Re: RV Rock and Roll! ozblueriver Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 >>>>Maybe most things are how you look at them. LOL, PJ, RV *already* rocks! cheers Liz Reply | Forward

#3677

From: "Linda & John Garvey" Date: Sat Jan 3, 2004 12:12 pm Subject: RE: RV Rock and Roll! linda_g7us Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi PJ -- Well, I am one of those folks who was very excited a few years ago when I found your archived Firedocs website, and spent hours and hours there, day after day, so glad that it was there. So, IMHO, you are on the right track in caring enough to do something, and "not letting the bozos get in your way," as you put it. :) BTW, that bible story does sound familiar, and I kind of remember wondering, as a little kid, why would God need someone to point this out to Him -- wouldn't He figure it out all on His own...? And then there was the story about how God slaughtered countless innocent children because He was fed up with a certain political leader -- which story instantly put me off believing unquestioningly anything written in ANY book. I was around four years old or so, and I still feel that way today, at sixty. (Akkk, don't get me started on this kind of stuff LOLOL ;). Linda G "The distinction between past, present and future is only an illusion, even if a stubborn one." -- Albert Einstein -- Reply | Forward

#3682

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sat Jan 3, 2004 6:21 pm Subject: Re: RV Rock and Roll! docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi PJ, I'm a little confused. What exactly are you adding to 10Kroads? Best Wishes, Bill Reply | Forward

#3683

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Sat Jan 3, 2004 8:08 pm Subject: Re: RV Rock and Roll! pjgaenir Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > I'm a little confused. What exactly are you adding to > 10Kroads? Hi Bill, I posted here on it but it was long and some time ago. Ten Thousand Roads (TKR) as a project has three primary "modules". There is a "Message Board Complex" (MBC) which is already online. There is a "Galleries" (G) area which is for tasking, viewing, commenting, "displaying" what's done, etc. We might add chat, if everybody else can twist my arm into it. [Someday, that may expand to cover groups and projects, which for now I have left out, for a variety of reasons.] There is a "Resource Center" (RC) area which is for information (links, archives, transcripts, multi-source FAQ, and more). There is some mix of RC&G for things like the Viewer Home Pages and Viewer Journals/blogs, as the pages/blogs are in the RC, but viewers can link to Gallery sessions (theirs or others) from those. There is some mix of MBC&G for things like Missions (specific taskings, these are in one of the galleries) where there's a link back from any session you look at on one of those taskings, to a thread on the message boards dedicated to that tasking and the sessions that resulted. There will eventually be some mix of the MBC&RC as, as we build up the Resource Center, stuff that is directly from/to anybody with a message or announcements board on TKR, may get links made from the MBC to the resource center. For example, Joe's stuff will be in the multi-source FAQ project (the main start of the resource center), and in the transcripts area, so he may end up with postings on his announcements boards that lead people to the resource center and those links or items, and the same goes for others with boards there. The Galleries and Resource Center are separate, custom software; the message board is a standard, if advanced, web bbs system. You can read the MBC without registering (on average, we have about 250 registrants and about 1300 regular readers). But because the G/RC has to track sessions, comments etc., one has to register for that part, it's separate. That can be done anonymously, and it's free, so it's no big. I started it in code finally in late 2002. But I didn't get around to getting serious--and buying back my domains I'd let lapse already-- until March of 2003, when I got a variety of great people to help as staff. By July I realized we had to open or the staff was going to be snoring on me, so even though I was not near done with the rest, we went ahead and opened the message boards. That's good, as the staff have been invaluable in helping guide a little of how things should develop (and what I have screwed up and need to fix, LOL). The Galleries will open this month. Date unclear. The Galleries allows viewers to get practice or formal, assigned- taskings (we call them Missions). Practice has two variants, one (version2) hrvg-style (where the tasker knows the task number so a cue-er can play a role) and one (version 1 or 'standard') is crv/trv/srv/tds/erv/etc.-style (every task number is unique, so no two viewers ever have the same# and no two targets ever have the same number). Version1 is double blind. Version2, we assume is, but the system can't ensure that. There are several categories of targets, which allow a viewer to keep extreme violence/death out of the probability for their tasking, or which will allow people to focus, such as on "people" for example, and have a practice pool just of that. Mission taskings will vary on feedback. The viewer specs their minimum FB requirement, and the system searches for taskings at that minimum or higher to clone, generate a new number for, and assign. So these targets can be nearly anything, depending on the tasker. From normal stuff, to precog targets, to esoteria, anything can be in there; the viewer controls things by their feedback level. When a Mission tasking has multiple data/sessions (DS), the demo gallery lists those for review. If a practice target ends up tasked to more than one person, the demo gallery will group them so you can see what diff people got on that same target. In the peanut gallery you can vote on sessions, and make comments for the viewer. For Data/Sessions, viewers can just type in their basic data, or upload a PDF of their session, or upload multiple images like scanned pages. We assume most D/S will be anonymous. Unless someone is trying to prove something to the world, I don't see any reason to use regular names anyway. This is all about viewer development. Everyone just is where they are, at whatever level, and it's about the doing and the growing, not the bragging. So, the Galleries can be used by anybody to prove themselves IF they like, but the "default" is anonymity. We assume that with the politics in this field, nobody wants to get attacked or scorned for not being Adequately Omniscient, LOL! And some people may feel inhibited if their trainer or friends don't want them to share, so this way, everyone can, without risk. On the viewer home pages, a viewer can link to their sessions. So if you do everything anonymously, but have a really good one, you can still link to it. People will then know that one is yours, but no others unless you volunteer it. This issue of psychology and ego is very important in my view so it's designed around that. There is also a Window Gallery. Sessions done for practice groups, or outside TKR, or 'old favorite' sessions, can be uploaded through that. We are hoping this will make it easier for small practice groups to spring up, or operate more fluently (esp. with Yahoo killing attachments on web), as anybody can do a session upload and then just link to it in an email. The Galleries are mostly done and in security-review and final-beta. The Resource Center is starting construction now, the viewer home page option is done, next is the multi-source FAQ. Probably more than you wanted to know, but there you go, asking a programmer about their project is like asking someone about their kids. "Wait! Wait! Lemme show you pictures!" LOL! PJ Reply | Forward

#3684

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sat Jan 3, 2004 9:04 pm Subject: Re: Re: RV Rock and Roll! docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi PJ, Very impressive. Could I suggest a separate taskings for people that want to work practice sessions vs say people that want a crack at operational sessions ( where is Bin Laden? etc), or exotic sessions..(where is the Holy Grail). It might be fun to take a peek at one of those once in awhile. Best Regarsd, Bill -------------------------- Beat ya to it. The TKR Practice Gallery handles practice RV (two task formats, 7 task categories). The Missions Gallery handles 'other' RV (7 diff feedback levels selectable--as it may be any kind of target). The Window Gallery handles non-TKR stuff (displays publicly so viewers can link from their own websites, or ref the session to a practice group). We might add a Dowsing Gallery later if people show interest. The Demo Gallery displays all the work. The Peanut Gallery is where you can vote or make comments on sessions (IF the viewer settings for that session allows it to show up there). So the task types are pretty split up already. Practice is cool but the Missions will be more fun. ;-) Since TKR is field-wide, there are a variety of taskers. Aside from some standard parameters we have to set, the type of task will depend on the tasker--as the field itself has a variety of interests, os will the taskers. (That's why the feedback level is selectable by viewer. God forbid a CRV stalwart should get an SRV special interest task LOL.) PJ --- pjgaenir wrote: > > I'm a little confused. What exactly are you adding > to > > 10Kroads? > > Hi Bill, > > I posted here on it but it was long and some time > ago. > > Ten Thousand Roads (TKR) as a project has three > primary "modules". > > There is a "Message Board Complex" (MBC) which is > already online. > > There is a "Galleries" (G) area which is for > tasking, viewing, > commenting, "displaying" what's done, etc. We might > add chat, if > everybody else can twist my arm into it. > > [Someday, that may expand to cover groups and > projects, which for now > I have left out, for a variety of reasons.] > > There is a "Resource Center" (RC) area which is for > information > (links, archives, transcripts, multi-source FAQ, and > more). > > There is some mix of RC&G for things like the Viewer > Home Pages and > Viewer Journals/blogs, as the pages/blogs are in the > RC, but viewers > can link to Gallery sessions (theirs or others) from > those. > > There is some mix of MBC&G for things like Missions > (specific > taskings, these are in one of the galleries) where > there's a link > back from any session you look at on one of those > taskings, to a > thread on the message boards dedicated to that > tasking and the > sessions that resulted. > > There will eventually be some mix of the MBC&RC as, > as we build up > the Resource Center, stuff that is directly from/to > anybody with a > message or announcements board on TKR, may get links > made from the > MBC to the resource center. For example, Joe's > stuff will be in the > multi-source FAQ project (the main start of the > resource center), and > in the transcripts area, so he may end up with > postings on his > announcements boards that lead people to the > resource center and > those links or items, and the same goes for others > with boards there. > > The Galleries and Resource Center are separate, > custom software; the > message board is a standard, if advanced, web bbs > system. You can > read the MBC without registering (on average, we > have about 250 > registrants and about 1300 regular readers). But > because the G/RC > has to track sessions, comments etc., one has to > register for that > part, it's separate. That can be done anonymously, > and it's free, so > it's no big. > > I started it in code finally in late 2002. But I > didn't get around > to getting serious--and buying back my domains I'd > let lapse already-- > until March of 2003, when I got a variety of great > people to help as > staff. By July I realized we had to open or the > staff was going to > be snoring on me, so even though I was not near done > with the rest, > we went ahead and opened the message boards. That's > good, as the > staff have been invaluable in helping guide a little > of how things > should develop (and what I have screwed up and need > to fix, LOL). > > The Galleries will open this month. Date unclear. > > The Galleries allows viewers to get practice or > formal, assigned- > taskings (we call them Missions). Practice has two > variants, one > (version2) hrvg-style (where the tasker knows the > task number so a > cue-er can play a role) and one (version 1 or > 'standard') is > crv/trv/srv/tds/erv/etc.-style (every task number is > unique, so no > two viewers ever have the same# and no two targets > ever have the same > number). > > Version1 is double blind. Version2, we assume is, > but the system > can't ensure that. There are several categories of > targets, which > allow a viewer to keep extreme violence/death out of > the probability > for their tasking, or which will allow people to > focus, such as > on "people" for example, and have a practice pool > just of that. > > Mission taskings will vary on feedback. The viewer > specs their > minimum FB requirement, and the system searches for > taskings at that > minimum or higher to clone, generate a new number > for, and assign. > So these targets can be nearly anything, depending > on the tasker. > From normal stuff, to precog targets, to esoteria, > anything can be in > there; the viewer controls things by their feedback > level. > > When a Mission tasking has multiple data/sessions > (DS), the demo > gallery lists those for review. If a practice target > ends up tasked > to more than one person, the demo gallery will group > them so you can > see what diff people got on that same target. In > the peanut gallery > you can vote on sessions, and make comments for the > viewer. > > For Data/Sessions, viewers can just type in their > basic data, or > upload a PDF of their session, or upload multiple > images like scanned > pages. > > We assume most D/S will be anonymous. Unless someone > is trying to > prove something to the world, I don't see any reason > to use regular > names anyway. This is all about viewer development. > Everyone just is > where they are, at whatever level, and it's about > the doing and the > growing, not the bragging. So, the Galleries can be > used by anybody > to prove themselves IF they like, but the "default" > is anonymity. > > We assume that with the politics in this field, > nobody wants to get > attacked or scorned for not being Adequately > Omniscient, LOL! And > some people may feel inhibited if their trainer or > friends don't want > them to share, so this way, everyone can, without > risk. > > On the viewer home pages, a viewer can link to their > sessions. So if > you do everything anonymously, but have a really > good one, you can > still link to it. People will then know that one is > yours, but no > others unless you volunteer it. This issue of > psychology and ego is > very important in my view so it's designed around > that. > > There is also a Window Gallery. Sessions done for > practice groups, > or outside TKR, or 'old favorite' sessions, can be > uploaded through > that. We are hoping this will make it easier for > small practice > groups to spring up, or operate more fluently (esp. > with Yahoo > killing attachments on web), as anybody can do a > session upload and > then just link to it in an email. > > The Galleries are mostly done and in security-review > and final-beta. > The Resource Center is starting construction now, > the viewer home > page option is done, next is the multi-source FAQ. > > Probably more than you wanted to know, but there you > go, asking a > programmer about their project is like asking > someone about their > kids. "Wait! Wait! Lemme show you pictures!" LOL! > > PJ > > > > Reply | Forward

#3685

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sat Jan 3, 2004 10:13 pm Subject: Re: Re: Dimensionals??? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hello All, Anyone want to give hints on dimensionals. Say you have a metal hut shape..but it turns out to be a bread box or vice verse. How do most people work with dimensionals? And what stage? Bill Reply | Forward

#3686

From: "Bill and Sandy Ray" Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 5:37 am Subject: RE: Re: Dimensionals??? firedust2 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill and All > Anyone want to give hints on dimensionals. Say you > have a metal hut shape..but it turns out to be a bread > box or vice verse. How do most people work with > dimensionals? And what stage? Dimensionals come in at the end of Stage 2. They are the transition from stage 2 to stage 3. After the other sensory perceptions of stage 2 come through the dimensionals follow. In Ingo theory they are what stretches the aperture increasing site contact. Because the aperture opens wider more of the site rushes in resulting in Atheistic Impact (AI). After declaring AI the viewer can move on to stage 3. In the stage 4 matrix there is also a separate column for Dimensionals. It has been my experience that Stage 2 dimensionals are general to the site, while in stage 4 the dimensionals tend to be more specific to a certain Tangible. To be honest I am not sure if that is Bill Ray or Ingo Swann talking. As for the bread box and the hut. Stage 1 will tell you that the site is a man made structure. Stage 2 might give you things like; musty smell, or toast smell, peanut butter taste, dusty taste,. I am not sure colors, sounds, feeling, will help in this case. Dimensions might be: small, tiny, enclosed, AI Break I like it hear, I feel hungry (just kidding). I think the thing to remember here is that there are sites that can be resolved in Stage 1, 2 or 3. We use these sites to train those stages. But a viewer is not truly operational until the viewer has mastered stage 4. Slainte Bill Ray Reply | Forward

#3690

From: "Monika Preston" Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 1:20 pm Subject: RE: Re: Dimensionals??? karimchris Online Now Send IM Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi all, In my experience the dimensionals in stage 2 can contradict each other (wide, open, narrow). In stage 4 usually these dimensionals repeat themselves and get linked to the tangibles of the site and therefore start to make sense. Also, the intangibles of a site can have dimensions. Example: motivation - high, danger - big Good day all, monika Reply | Forward

#3689

From: "Sharon Webb" Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 11:04 am Subject: Re: Re: Dimensionals??? sharwebb_30512 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Bill, Interesting challenge. I think one way is to project a known sized object into the visualization for scale---the way people do when they take a photo of something with a dime or a yardstick in the picture. A known object could be a human figure---maybe the RVr's own. Sharon sharwebb...net www.fractalus.com/sharon Reply | Forward

#3694

From: "Monika Preston" Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 1:13 pm Subject: RE: Re: Dimensionals??? karimchris Online Now Send IM Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Sharon, I would assume that when viewing a site I view it from a human-size perspective; interesting, I have never thought about that. However, in CRV all visual impressions are supposed to be declared as AOL. Therefore, dimensions are something I feel, sense, not see as a picture in my mind. Have a great day, monika Reply | Forward

#3698

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 4:54 pm Subject: Re: Dimensionals??? pjgaenir Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Monika, > in CRV all visual impressions are supposed > to be declared as AOL. > Therefore, Maybe a diff in teachers here, I didn't really learn that polarized a view of it. Whatever works for the viewer, though! I use what I call "PJRV" now, which changes as often as I do, and is continually experimental--but I'm having fun. ;-) I've tracked about 7 different ways I get visual data alone. Which is really amazing when you start paying attention to that. Sometimes 'how' it comes tells me something about my target contact and whether it is likely to be literal or symbolic or what, so it's helpful info to notice. I have noticed that the type of visuals likely to be most wrong are the type likely to be most symbolic, and hence they are wrong. So I don't tend to discard them, but rather, ask myself what my mind is trying to tell me at that point. I'm not saying I get an answer of course, lol! ;-) PJ Reply | Forward

#3713

From: "smitty97006" Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 8:17 pm Subject: Re: Dimensionals??? smitty97006 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > I use what I call "PJRV" now, which changes > as often as I do, and is > continually experimental--but I'm having fun. ;-) Hmmmm... PJRV, sorta just rolls right off the tongue doesn't it? I would suggest immediately destroying this post admitting you've made it up yourself. Dig up a couple famously dead people's names, a non disclosure agreement, and fill in what really happened during that mysterious 4 year absense you had ;-).. Viola!!! Guru Palyne... Just don't forget who gave you the idea when you start looking for that sycophant sidekick.. Gene ------------------------- LOL! I dunno man. You almost disagreed with me once at TKR. You're on my radar for life as a potentially subversive element. I think enough for both of us, so why do YOU need an opinion? You should have thought of that before posting yours. I would have banned you except being on wizop council, I'd have had to get your vote first, which really complicates things damn it. But as they say, sometimes the worst people give the best advice--you're right. (lol) I am a fan of Sybil Leek, isn't she dead? I'm a huge fan of Jane Roberts, and she is definitely dead. Oooh, a medium AND a channel--now I could wrap something into RV it hasn't had yet. For all those wondering, "Could RV's image possibly get any worse?!" the answer is YES. LOL. I'll consider you for the SK job. Having previously been one of those sidekicks myself I have a fairly good idea what the job entails. It seems to me the role has gotten a lot more demanding since my days in it though. I merely had to be in agreement with my guru--the actual, physical sharing of a brain wasn't necessary as I recall. But since you and I both have about half of one to begin with, I think that would work out pretty well for both lol. PJ Reply | Forward

#3701

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 3:59 pm Subject: RE: Re: Dimensionals??? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Does everyone agree with this? I don't see this in the manual. It's not my experience either. Most visuals have imaginary aspects or are approximations. But to say one should not be working at all with visuals..leaves me rather confused and skeptical. Best Regards Bill > However, in CRV all visual impressions are supposed > to be declared as AOL. > Therefore, dimensions are something I feel, sense, > not see as a picture in > my mind. Reply | Forward

#3706

From: "Glyn" Date: Mon Jan 5, 2004 1:57 am Subject: RE: Re: Dimensionals??? glynis5799 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, I can only go by my own experience, and I but I am not a very visual person in everyday life, I am more of a touchy/feely person ;-). I try and try, and although I have had visual impressions that have turned out to have congruence, they tend to be vague skeletal impressions (know what I mean?), rather than the wonderful clear visuals I would prefer. My really good, clear visuals are nearly always AOL; unfortunately. My husband has a wonderful visual memory, although not as good now as in his youth. Once he could visualise a 'board' in his mind, and juggle mathematical equations, ..hold the image and go back and fill in the blanks! Honestly, I didn't believe it at first, but he tells me that he was surprised when he realised that everyone didn't do that. However he can't understand it when I say I can mentally feel things and 'hold' things in my hand. It's just the way our minds differ, and the type of memory we have. I just can't hold an image for long, and I definitely need a calculator :-). I think that that the way we process information in daily life may carry over to our way of doing things during RV. Regards, Glyn Reply | Forward

#3712

From: "terri8008" Date: Mon Jan 5, 2004 8:58 am Subject: Re: Dimensionals??? terri8008 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > "However, in CRV all visual impressions are > supposed to be declared as AOL. > Therefore, dimensions are something I feel, > sense, not see as a picture in my mind." My opinion based upon my personal experience- I would totally agree with Monika. I work (my) ERV, and all AOL are set aside. I avoid visual like the plague. In ERV to follow the willy-nilly trail that an AOL can lead me on is an exercise in exasperation, it's my 'mind' telling me what it 'thinks' is there, and rarely what "is".. I do get the occasional, what I term, a "flash image", (not an AOL exactly, but I set it aside as an AOL) but this 'flash' appears differently for myself. It comes as a grainy fleeting image tinged in yellow ochre.. so far in my ERV these flashes have been the target site, although not in full detail, rather shadowed and fuzzy. My experiences in RV are by majority sensual, as in I sense and feel my way about the site and the occasional 'known' as opposed to 'seeing'... (but 'knowns' are sometimes hard to pull out, or put into words, oft times easier to briefly sketch). It seems the longer I work RV the AOL tends to disappear.. a better word may be recede. I expect this can be long term discipline or structure one inflicts upon ones self- all the best, Terri. "I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth." - Morpheus Reply | Forward

#3715

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Jan 5, 2004 4:18 pm Subject: Re: Re: Dimensionals??? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hmmm, Are you saying even in stage 3 and 4 you get no visuals. What does your summary look like? Best Regarsd, Bill > --- terri8008 wrote: > I work (my) ERV, and all AOL are set aside. > I avoid visual like the plague. [snip] > I do get the occasional, what I term, a "flash > image", (not an AOL > exactly, but I set it aside as an AOL) but this > 'flash' appears > differently for myself. It comes as a grainy > fleeting image tinged in > yellow ochre.. so far in my ERV these flashes have > been the target > site, although not in full detail, rather shadowed > and fuzzy. > My experiences in RV are by majority sensual, as in > I sense and feel > my way about the site and the occasional 'known' as > opposed > to 'seeing'... (but 'knowns' are sometimes hard to > pull out, or put > into words, oft times easier to briefly sketch). Reply | Forward

#3716

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Jan 5, 2004 7:14 pm Subject: Re: Re: Are Dean Radins results with RNG's the result of mass retrotasking? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 I think everyone here has heard the amazing results of Dean Radin and coworkers using Random Number generators, where the RNG's lose randomenss during events which grab global conciousness. Well couldn't this be a case of Retro Tasking? In this case you are retrotasking the conciousness of the whole human race to imprint the RNG's with randomness at a certain time?? Similiarly a group just on Art Bell ( see url) {www.urbansurvival.com}claim something similiar by scanning the web for subtle changes in mass useage of words (emotional words) about target topics. The group analyzed billions of random words on the net looking for emotional words that were associated with for instance MICROSOFT or GOLD. They claim such words predicted the movement of the prices. Furthermore that they then found by careful examination they could predict other future events They claimed they predicted the big power outage in the NE. An interesting idea. I have no idea if it really works, but it reminds me of the Princeton Random number generator experiments, And again of RETRO TASKING. I think one could write the ultimate conspiracy story using concepts of mass retrotsaking of humanity..G Bill Reply | Forward

#3720

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Mon Jan 5, 2004 8:42 pm Subject: Re: Are RNG's mass retrotasking? pjgaenir Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, > I think everyone here has heard the amazing results of > Dean Radin and coworkers using Random Number > generators, where the RNG's lose randomenss during > events which grab global conciousness. I haven't heard those amazing results. Or rather, I have heard some think they are amazing, but it seems that's gotten some critique even within the parapsychology field itself. My impression with RNG has been that it's been a pretty disappointing inquiry if the 'hope' was to really find and demo something with it. I haven't read every paper possible on it at this point though so I might be missing something. Scott Ellis might know, I'm sure he is more up on this science stuff than I am. > In this case you are retrotasking the conciousness of > the whole human race to imprint the RNG's with > randomness at a certain time?? I strongly suspect that DAT is a far more likely model for explaining this stuff than retrotasking would be. But of course we're both theorizing; who knows?! It's an interesting idea. > I have no idea if it really works, It is possible that some of the occult studies are, on a more literal level, sort of being replicated as novel ideas--that being that "in all things there is correspondence," in a nutshell. So in a myriad of ways, people are working to find the correspondences. I expect the reason for their patterns is at a level more fundamental than any of the inquiries (analysis of web searches, reverse speech, retro tasking, bible code, etc.) expect, and that this will affect the degree of predictability/effect-size of their study. > think one could write the ultimate conspiracy story > using concepts of mass retrotsaking of humanity..G Yeah but I for one would not for a moment believe that any other person, or group of persons, could psychically will the whole of my reality. I just don't feel that vulnerable and powerless. When I think about people retrotasking my sessions, well, I theorized seriously for awhile about this, and finally came to a decision--and this may change with further data or experience--but that I don't consider it an issue for me, because I choose not to have it be an issue for me, in the same way that I choose not to have psi info that is not desired (e.g., so called 'telepathic overlay') be an issue for me. "You can't touch 'dis!" is how I feel--if their own DAT leads someone to find 'correspondences' between a session of mine and a target they choose, that is their issue, not mine. I don't consider that they affected me or the data; I consider that they psychically were led to my session for that target the way people opening a book are led to an answer to any question. I feel capable of psychically holding the line, the intent. I think this applies not just to sessions but to reality as a whole. I think the answer to "the infringement of intent upon a session" -- or reality -- is all within the self, is the development of will, of intent. What I need is a psychic punching bag and rondori sessions and I'd be all set, LOL. PJ Reply | Forward

#3723

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Jan 5, 2004 10:59 pm Subject: Re: Re: Are RNG's mass retrotasking? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Geez PJ, Everytime Retrotasking is mentioned..people start getting defensive. Can't we approach it as a scientific question rather than a threat to our RV-ego..G Best wishes, Bill > I feel capable of psychically holding the line, the > intent. I think ------------------ A funny thing to say about me, given I'm one of the few people that has very publicly discussed this topic, at length, and defended its right to discussion instead of fear or insult. I think what you are interpreting as a form of 'fear' on my part is something entirely different. I believe that remote viewing is profoundly centered on strength of intent. (I believe reality--as you were discussing it--is too.) So, if I think I have the strength of intent to make an issue like retrotasking moot, and/or that the RT effects are likely DAT, that is not a fear, it's just my personal perspective on it (we all have one). I also think strength of intent (as I mentioned) can make a difference in a viewer's ability to focus on relevant vs. trivial data, and target vs. so-called 'overlay' info. My saying that doesn't indicate a fear of trivial data or overlay, or discussin them, does it? :-) PJ Reply | Forward

#3746

From: "Scott" Date: Wed Jan 7, 2004 10:24 pm Subject: Re: Are RNG's mass retrotasking? scottrver Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Got your note PJ, I've been busy lately. > Bill wrote: > > I think everyone here has heard the amazing results of > > Dean Radin and coworkers using Random Number > > generators, where the RNG's lose randomenss during > > events which grab global conciousness. There's a very persuasive alternative analysis by Ed May and James Spottiswoode. They reached the conclusion that there is no such correlation. You can read it at James' site www.jsasoc.com. For the RNG type micro-PK trials in general, DAT seems to be a better explanation than PK. DAT is worth understanding and there are some papers on DAT at James' site which are worth reading. Other than the reality of RV I think DAT is arguably the single biggest contribution to the field to date. Since we don't understand the mechanisms of psi, DAT remains just a theory. But thus far an awful lot of experimental results make more sense, including failures to replicate, when the experiments are analyzed with DAT in mind. Also most, if not all, parapsychology experiments I've read about have not been designed to minimize DAT in order to isolate another psi mechanism as an explanation - even those experiments conducted since DAT was proposed. And of course DAT isn't even known about outside of parapsychology. Scott Reply | Forward

#3748

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Thu Jan 8, 2004 12:27 pm Subject: Re: Re: Are RNG's mass retrotasking? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Scott, Well Dean wrote a rebuttle to Spottiswoods criticism, which also sounded quite reasonable. But in fact the statistical arguments were over my head. So it remains to me an open question, but the original data looked very impressive. I would like to hear from Dean on this.. PJ! Can you get an interview with Dean?..G Best Regards, Bill ------------- I haven't asked. -- PJ Reply | Forward

#3724

From: "Glyn" Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 2:04 am Subject: RE: Re: Are Dean Radins results with RNG's the result of mass retrotasking? glynis5799 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, > I think one could write the ultimate conspiracy story > using concepts of mass retrotsaking of humanity..G I think you definitely could Bill. A good sci-fi plot for someone too :-). Maybe this is how everything 'works' though, with random affects and conscious intents and desires, influencing and bouncing off each other, forward and also seemingly also backward, building and collapsing, and so everything rolls along.. When we go down this line of thought it's mind-boggling, the implication, isn't it? Really interesting stuff. Glyn Reply | Forward

#3730

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 12:38 pm Subject: RE: Re: Are Dean Radins results with RNG's the result of mass retrotasking? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 LOL.. If the evidence got too strong, it might wipe the smile right off my face..G. But right now it's just a fascinating possibility..that irritates people enough to get it banned on some sites, making it even more interesting..G Bill > When we go down this line of thought it's > mind-boggling, the > implication, isn't it? Really interesting stuff. Reply | Forward

#3732

From: "Glyn" Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 3:54 pm Subject: RE: Re: Are Dean Radins results with RNG's the result of mass retrotasking? glynis5799 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Bill, Sometimes it seems as if we are missing something that is so damned obvious it's almost grabbing us by the throat and shaking. :-). Bits and pieces of the puzzle called 'Life, the universe and everything' all over the place and we just can't make the connection. Maybe one day. Anyway what was that solution in the end? Forty-two?? LOL! Well one thing about this group...we can talk about anything without getting banned. Well almost anything, eh PJ. ;-). Glyn --------------------------- Being overly nice to me is off-limits per recent posts. I already have an ego the size of Jupiter, it needs no help. Other than that, I think all topics are open here... if they relate to RV or 'experiential' psi/etc. ;-) PJ Reply | Forward

#3718

From: "Monika Preston" Date: Mon Jan 5, 2004 12:22 pm Subject: RE: Re: Dimensionals??? karimchris Online Now Send IM Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Terri, I am just working the opposite way :-) In my ERV experience, visuals occur very frequently; mostly faint and grainy, like very old black and white photos. The bright sharp images I receive usually have little to do with the target (that's what I find out during training sessions). As much as I enjoy ERV, without a monitor I have extreme difficulties to stay focused on a target. With the CRV method I know the routine, work through the stages as I was taught. Not experimenting with it because the way I do it works just fine for me LOL. And you're so right about "knowing". For examples: colors are just something I KNOW, I can't smell or taste them, nor do I see them. I still don't know how you can ERV and remember all you viewed to write down and sketch later. In ERV I am usually so far away (down/up/wherever) that after it I can barely remember my name after a session. Furthermore, how do you consciously declare AOLs in ERV? Do you declare AOLs after a session? Like sorting out pees and pebbles? monika Reply | Forward

#3727

From: "terri8008" Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 8:45 am Subject: Re: Dimensionals??? terri8008 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hiya Monika- > (you wrote-I still don't know how you can ERV and remember all you > viewed to write down and sketch later. ) . . .I've forgotten so much Monika, much of my ERV has become ingrained and/or habitual and I don't think about what I do any longer, I just do it. Yeah, It's very hard to work solo ERV, and yes I can lose a whole bunch of information if I allow myself to go too deep in session. I guess thru the years I have developed disciplined guidelines, a structure, that I put there during session and I also depend on, trust in, the tasking and coordinates to keep me on the straight and narrow, keep me on location or assignment. To write up the session, I have become comfortable with the computer key board and just sit and type often with my eyes closed(half asleep) and let all the words, descriptive, poor out of me before they fade or confuse. Then I break for a bit, and might come back and put the words in some form of structured report. Often introducing a structure, CRV style stages, and or probing can pull more data from session. When I can't use the keyboard and have to hand write a session it's all over the place on big pieces of paper and the spelling is almost incomprehensible. I purposely "blind" myself during session. I just won't allow any visual to come before me or appear in minds eye. If a visual comes in- to play I bury it quickly, shift away from it, it's an indicator for myself (wakes me up) that I am slipping out of session, off target, I am beginning to 'think' (left brain) it. I wait for the AI, then I know I have a fairly good foot in the door. (targeted site) from there on I allow the vague 'impressions' to surface or come in, or I 'fall' into it.. Yes, it's a delicate balance to maintain solo but I'v found if I don't focus directly on or in the altered state I don't lose my balance. Like walking a tight rope, don't intentionally shift focus to either side but keep attention blandly straight ahead. I sometimes have a difficult time moving about the site all by myself, no monitor, and I have a terrible time with doorknobbing.. I seem to be a very tiny speck when viewing and can stick like glue to the tinniest element or aspect of target site. I irritate and frustrate the heck out of myself with these hang-ups. I prefer to work a few sessions on a target (one a day), as opposed to just one or a quick one (I can never figure how folks work a session in a few minutes, it can take me 1-3 hours the whole process from start to finish) .. the more I visit or 'work' a site the more I know about it, then perhaps that's just ERV, the "extended" part :) > (Furthermore, how do you consciously declare AOLs in ERV?) . . . I'm quite all too conscious when an AOL occurs, it grabs my attention usually in vibrant full color, 3-d in nature. > (Do you declare AOLs after a session?) . . .yep. But, no.. I've never gone for visual in ERV. Visual just does not work for me and I do envy the gifted folks who can get accurate visual perceptions. all the best, Terri. ~O Lord help my words to be gracious and tender today, for tomorrow I may have to eat them~ Reply | Forward

#3696

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 2:53 pm Subject: Re: Dimensionals??? pjgaenir Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > I think one way is to project a known > sized object into the visualization for > scale---the way people do when they take > a photo of something with a dime or a > yardstick in the picture. A known object > could be a human figure---maybe the RVr's own. A good idea, Sharon. I think on some level, this is often done accidentally in a session, at least in mine, by feeling sorta 'there' in some sense, e.g, "this thing above, and this thing down to the left"--there is often a sense that my body is involved in some abstract way, and that alone does (later in session, not usually up front) sometimes give a clue to dimension. Somewhere in the archives I have a post about a technique I used to use--I forgot about it till now--a sort of Pepto-Bismol effect lol. Either it makes everything better, or it makes everything so much worse so fast that it's all over... and then it'll be better, just 'cause it's over, LOL. The technique--which requires some target contact first--is basically coming up with 3-5 really specific size/shape "archetypals" to compare to (this mostly works if you think the target is some kind of structure or gestalt). So for example, "The Epcot ball. [giant sphere] Feel it next to the target. Does the target match it?" "No way! The target's much smaller, and has straight vertical sides." Going through the short list of 'archetypals' to 'compare' and see how your target differs can provide extra info and move one past a totally stuck point. The problem is, this is bigtime AOL-Drive territory... I mean this is the guy with candy for the kids, and you're the kid lol, it's so dangerous. This may save a lost session before ending and move you forward, but it will *annihilate* your session if your target contact isn't sufficient, by putting all kinds of ideas and data into your head that don't belong there, and at that point, you're so much better off if you just give up and throw down the pen. :-) Do the Silva techniques have an approach for dimensionals? Oh. I should add one last note about dimensions. On targets that have two different main areas -- for example, something way up high sort of 'separates' the target into that focus up there, and whatever's down on the ground -- sometimes a clue to that size and separation is found in the 'awareness'. If you focus on one thing, and the other literally recedes from awareness entirely, and then you focus on the other thing and the first seems to just 'vanish' from awareness, that's sometimes a clue for me that the things I'm focusing on are not physically close/related enough to each other to stay in my mind as any kind of unit or 'physical relationship'. PJ Reply | Forward

#3699

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 4:09 pm Subject: Re: Re: Dimensionals??? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi PJ and All, Thanks for these suggestions. I'm axious to try them. Best Regards, Bill Reply | Forward

#3697

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 3:55 pm Subject: Re: Re: Dimensionals??? docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi Sharon , Interesting idea. What stage would you project this relative size image into the work?.. Right at the beginning with the ideogram..or later in stage II or stage III or even 4? Reading what Bill Ray said, it might be better to wait until at least late stage2 todo that. But maybe I'll try different stages and see which works best. Best wishes, Bill Reply | Forward

#3693

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 2:36 pm Subject: Re: Dimensionals??? pjgaenir Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > Anyone want to give hints on dimensionals. Say you > have a metal hut shape..but it turns out to be a bread > box or vice verse. How do most people work with > dimensionals? And what stage? I'm not using CRV, though I sometimes use pieces of it, so I can't speak to stage, only to my own current experience. Some dimensionals come through as part of my first data (and I have a diff idea of what constitutes 'gestalt', so I don't use it in conversation with people familiar with methods, to avoid confusion), for example, BIG, or DOWN....LONG or THREE THINGS, THIS, THIS BIGGER, THIS BIGGEST. As time goes on I tend to get more of that right out of the box in a session. Not usually much of this though unless it is the *major/primary feature* of the target--which is where this ties into the 'gestalt' concept. Otherwise, usually they don't kick in for me until I'm in or past what would be stage3 in CRV (sketching)--usually the first 'sketch pieces' are disconnected, no clue as to size, but then I start getting more sense of physical context. The physical context is usually what clues in the general dimensions of something, for example, I may feel there is an 'overhead' shape like a custom roofing of some kind, and then down here at the left there is 'a thing' which feels like it's at/on the ground, and usually that info and more not stated (what I call 'background knowns') make it more clear that the size is probably bigger than a gallon of milk and smaller than a car -- that is still unspecific, and no I don't think of it like that in session lol! -- but it at least deals with the issue I think one of our RV Oasis Haiku winners addressed, something like, "Only in Remote Viewing / Can redwood trees and toothpicks / Be the same damn thing." LOL. (Who wrote that? hold on... ok. Prudence Calabrese did.) When I first hit sketch, I can draw a tornado the same size as the guy and the destroyed airplane next to him (that the tornado took out)--it's completely lost for scale. But after that, when concept/context is coming in more, the "relationship between shapes" in the target is a lot of what adds to the sense of "what size/dimension" something is. PJ

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