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pjrv : Messages : 1797-1818 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/1797?)
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#1797

From: "PJ Gaenir " Date: Wed Dec 18, 2002 10:50 pm Subject: RV Angst / Monitors dennanm Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Hi you guys. You know me, the virgo queen of RV angst. When I'm not pitching a fit about my sessions not being perfect enough, it's either because I'm not practicing, or because I'm busy pitching 101 little fits through a session at that moment. I thought I was getting better about all this though. Though not perfect, for some time my practice sessions had been fairly normal in terms of my state of mind. Recently I decided I really wanted to find someone to practice with. So I've been doing some practice sessions for someone else. It's been rather interesting. First off, every ideogram is totally new. I mean I haven't a flippin' clue. Today only made an exception to be familiar enough in one regard, while having another familiar element that completely contradicted the first one, just to be ridiculously confusing. I am wondering if the same target, with a different tasker, would ever come through any differently in regards to the ideogram? I suppose that is impossible to test. Secondly, I find that if someone who knows the target is monitoring me in my practice session, it takes my single-point angst (will the session be good enough), and instead applies it to every single word being a 'judgement' on the other person's part. I think if we'd done it properly double blind, I wouldn't have felt like that. But we didn't, so I had this mega psyche case about it. This mostly resulted in a completely continuing lack of any target contact, a great deal of annoyance on my part, and eventually annoying the monitor too. Sigh. Part of me really wants to slither off into a dark corner and practice quietly until I am Appropriately Omniscient. Another part of me really wants some sense of community/congregation about it, so I'm not the Lone Ranger and all. For the left-brain folks out there, I am curious, if you've done monitored sessions both doubleblind and monitor frontloaded, did you react any differently in the session when the monitor knew the target? Do monitored sessions add a performance anxiety rather than a greater ability to let go? Does it depend on how well you know the monitor? Other than training, I have never done anything but solo sessions. So I really don't know how people normally react to that. Is it no big deal to anybody else? PJ Reply | Forward

#1801

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:35 pm Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors docsavagebill Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi PJ, Most of my monitored sessions were done at Pru's center during one weekend. But I did better at that time than usually on my own. However, there was a lot of joking and continuous efforts by Pru ( although not always the other monitor) to lower stress and expectations. Laughter, tongue in cheek jokes etc, are all good ways to break down that stress level and pressure for performance. The person doing the monitoring makes a huge difference. I much prefer a monitor that is just a comfortable friendly helper, and I am in control. Others might prefer something else. Best Regards, Bill ---------------------------- Moderator's note: Well training is sort of a situation all its own (the in-person aspect being strongest of course). The monitor was good in my case, it was my own reaction I found interesting. -- PJ Reply | Forward

#1802

From: "intuitwolf " Date: Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:59 pm Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors intuitwolf Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > I am wondering if the same target, with a > different tasker, would ever come through any differently in regards > to the ideogram? I've had one target that I've been tasked with by three different people over the course of three years. Every time the ideogram had similiarities, but my ideograms are always different so it wasn't identical by any means. But it had the same curving aspect in all three. > Secondly, I find that if someone who knows the target is monitoring > me in my practice session, it takes my single-point angst (will the > session be good enough), and instead applies it to every single word > being a 'judgement' on the other person's part. Yeah, I think that's probably a problem for anyone who is being monitored by someone who knows the target. If it had been double blind you probably would have still experienced some of that just because you aren't used to being monitored. > This mostly resulted in a completely continuing lack of any target > contact, a great deal of annoyance on my part If the monitor is overly intrusive in the session (even when double blind) it can still be tremendously irritating and distracting rather than helpful. I think being a good monitor is a fine art that takes as much practice as remote viewing. > For the left-brain folks out there, I am curious, if you've done > monitored sessions both doubleblind and monitor frontloaded, did you > react any differently in the session when the monitor knew the > target? Yes, it's almost like reverting to a childhood state where you were learning to read and had to read in class and were really anxious about making mistakes. The only thing to do in those cases is to think of it as good training for that part of self that doesn't like to make mistakes. It's easier to show one of your worst sessions *after the fact* when you can move into intellectual mode and discuss the fine points of what set you off track, than it is to have someone sitting there watching the train wreck while it happens and you're in a more vulnerable subconscious-exposed mind set. :-) > Do monitored sessions add a performance anxiety rather than a greater > ability to let go? I think having a monitor that is really good and knows how to stay out of the way and only step in at appropriate moments might be great - but I've never had a good one that I could work with on an ongoing basis so I wouldn't really know. But I did have my husband monitor me a few times and he was actually very good at only stepping in at just the right moment (usually only once or twice). We have plans to do more of this once he graduates this Spring and we can have our life back. > Does it depend on how well you know the monitor? Probably; but I'd bet that Bill Ray or Mel could monitor just about anyone and create a measure of feeling comfortable and safe in the process. Shelia ------------------------- Moderator's note: Thanks. I just wondered. My monitor was actually really great in fact. It was me that overreacted to the process, so I just wondered if others have as well. -- PJ Reply | Forward

#1814

From: "Eva " Date: Sat Dec 21, 2002 8:48 pm Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors k9caninek9 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 LOL, this reminds me of a dream I had last night. I dreamt I was monitoring someone and there was a huge long break where the viewer was stuck but for the life of me, I couldn't think of one single question to help. Finally I thought of one and the viewer gave a single word response and then there was another huge long break and I still couldn't think. It went on that way for a long time with me squirming as the monitor until finally I got lucid enough to realize it was a dream. Whew! Maybe the lesson was to keep a page of questions handy when you are the monitor! -E ------------------------------ Moderator's note: Sounds like the monitor's nightmare of getting PJ as a viewer. LOL! PJ Reply | Forward

#1816

From: "intuitwolf " Date: Sat Dec 21, 2002 9:24 pm Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors intuitwolf Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > I just wondered. My monitor was actually really great > in fact. It was me that overreacted to the process, so > I just wondered if others have as well. -- PJ I have monitored three students who were overly nervous when working with Paul -- they perceived him as the authority figure. Although they said they were more relaxed with me, their sessions were just as good when they worked with Paul. So, maybe sometimes even that tension can work for you - possibly keeping the analytical mind busy? Shelia -------------------- Moderator's note: Actually, fear of public humiliation *usually* makes me do quite well as a survival response. I didn't really have any 'authority' issue with the monitor in this case though. But it sure did drag my left brain up to the surface. I've thought about it a bit now. I think anything that relates to others looking in on me springs a well-developed "I'm rational and objective" attitude -- which is the worst possible thing for the RV process of course. :-) It always comes down to ego! Sigh. PJ Reply | Forward

#1803

From: Dee Leslie Date: Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:40 pm Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors myratadee Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi PJ, I have done many sessions solo and with a monitor both blind and monitor informed. My first few sessions with a monitor were full of the angst you described - the ego kicks in and 'will I be good enough' definitely does try to run with it for a while. But after a while, it didn't seem to matter who was monitoring me, I just went into the zone and wrote away. There are problems with double blind - it can really turn into a bunch of laughter after the target is disclosed. In one session, I was moved 20 feet above the target, definitely noticed different elements and kept on describing. There was nothing wrong with the data, but the target was a salt shaker! I described the inside and the contents, but the move to 20 feet above had me describing the roof of the house, which I gloriously tagged as the top of the structure I was viewing. It was quite a kick! I find that I don't get frustrated anymore about my data - I simply task myself with understanding what went on in the session and how I felt. This helps me to understand what the feeling means the next time. I teach SRV and I have noticed that many of the new viewers get there faster. So, the struggle is no longer getting someone to the target, but teaching them how to get all of the data on paper. Sorry, strayed just a bit. Anyway, the changing ideograms could be due to the new energy - I teach that the monitor generally 'goes to the target' with the viewer - so it helps to strengthen the signal. What might help you to keep your ideograms pure is to do a few practice ideogram pages right before meditating and viewing. It keeps the subconscious mind focused on the task. Another ideogram comment - pay attention to these new ones. You could be developing a more advanced code for yourself. Each of the viewers I know ends up with a few new ones that are just their own. For example, and upside down subject ideogram for one person indicates an ET subject (SRV teaches loops). For me, my ideograms become more complex, say if a subject is inside a structure, I may draw both of them in one. So, put the frustration aside and focus on your subconsious. You may want to ask your monitor to describe what symbol is in his/her head for each of the categories - may make sense. Having the monitor focusing on the target (even when blind, the intention of the monitor is to simply focus on the target) just as it is, is very important. I recently had experience with someone who decided to 'help me out' by singing a KISS song in his head (the target was of a KISS concert). Since I don't know KISS songs by name, that was no help at all. I did fine with the target but the depth was missing because the monitor was 'doing something else'. Having the monitor get quiet, such as with meditation for a few minutes before the session, does enhance target contact. The 'newness' of a monitor generally takes a session together to help each of you learn the other's style. After that, the experience only gets better. I like solo's and monitored sessions. If you like, I'd be happy to connect with you for a session or two as a monitor. So, hope I wasn't too long winded. I have been reading the recents posts trying to catch up. Haven't been part of the group for quite some time. Dee Leslie Reply | Forward

#1818

From: "Eva " Date: Sat Dec 21, 2002 8:39 pm Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors k9caninek9 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 I haven't done many monitored sessions, but I vastly prefer the monitor to be blind. Otherwise, I second guess everything he/she says. Sometimes I am wrong, but sometimes I am right as well. I think it's impossible for a monitor to act exactly the same informed as blind. Sure, you can keep a poker face, but emotions will float in the ether and decisions on questions will be influenced. For instance as a monitor, you probably wouldn't knowingly ask for more data on an aspect you knew to be wrong. -E ------------------------ Moderator's note: The last point is really the biggest for me. -- PJ pjrv : Messages : 1798-1819 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/1798?)
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#1798

From: "Mary Ashley" Date: Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:00 am Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors maryladyoflight Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Hi PJ, Initially I was terrified when I did targets with Gene as my Monitor.. It wasn't quite so bad with Bill, "Liam".. However both guys were absolutely brilliant and very supportive of my stumblings and severe lack of confidence.. I was astonished just how supportive they were. It is something I did my best to emulate, with all my students. :) There is the need to have or instill confidence, assurance, trust and a sense of safety. There are certain people I would never take a target from on a casual level. For operational ones, where I potentially had issues with the monitor, as in life, I can lock myself into an entirely different mindset. Next time, when you feel yourself going into the neg spiral.. ask yourself this.. "What results on the target would I get if I didn't think/feel like this?" See how that helps. :)) Hugs, MaryA Reply | Forward

#1805

From: aeonblueau8008... Date: Thu Dec 19, 2002 4:05 pm Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors terri8008 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Well, first off if your not used to a monitor, all of this is totally strange to you, foreign, don't fit, doesn't feel comfortable. Takes some getting used to. A lot. PJ>>>>It's been rather interesting. First off, every ideogram is totally new. I mean I haven't a flippin' clue. Today only made an exception to be familiar enough in one regard, while having another familiar element that completely contradicted the first one, just to be ridiculously confusing. Bit confused, what are you talking about or you lost me. IMO everything is different in every session, yeah and your clueless. Are you saying you are familiar or habitual with ideograms? PJ>>>>I am wondering if the same target, with a different tasker, would ever come through any differently in regards to the ideogram? I suppose that is impossible to test. Why is that impossible to test? and yeah of course it could come thru differently. Totally, you can be clueless, you should be at any rate. PJ>>>>Secondly, I find that if someone who knows the target is monitoring me in my practice session, it takes my single-point angst (will the session be good enough) well, drop that, drop the ego. your in this for you, not your monitor nor anything else. be true to your self first, discard everything else, not meaning to sound flippant, but your after yourself, and you know when your on. BTW.. how do you now your monitor knows the target??? you shouldn't.. your blind to the whole ball of wax. Your the viewer your not in control and don't try to be. I dunno, sortta sounds like you need to find someone who knows what they are doing... or you would 't be having all the Q's. I actually only know/of 3 possible monitors . . . . . PJ>>>>>, and instead applies it to every single word being a 'judgement' on the other person's part. I think if we'd done it properly double blind, I wouldn't have felt like that. But we didn't, so I had this mega psyche case about it. well, I guess so. A viewer can't control every aspect.That's not the viewers hat. Judgement.. nasty word.. hang ups on hang ups. Shouldn't even cross a viewers mind. PJ>>>>>This mostly resulted in a completely continuing lack of any target contact, a great deal of annoyance on my part, and eventually annoying the monitor too. Sigh. I wouldn't even say you were in session, any sort of session. PJ>>>>Part of me really wants to slither off into a dark corner and practice quietly until I am Appropriately Omniscient. This life or next. PJ>>>>>>>Another part of me really wants some sense of community/congregation about it, so I'm not the Lone Ranger and all.For the left-brain folks out there, I am curious, if you've done monitored sessions both doubleblind and monitor frontloaded, did you react any differently in the session when the monitor knew the target? No. PJ>>>>>>Do monitored sessions add a performance anxiety rather than a greater ability to let go? heck no .. the better the monitor the better the session (I lost the " I wan't to be the best" a loooooooooong time ago) (so should you) (It's a foot in the door) (the next door you can try to be the best) PJ>>>>>>>>>>Does it depend on how well you know the monitor? Yeeeeeah thats a big plus point IMO/experience. How well I know and what I trust. PJ>>>>Other than training, I have never done anything but solo sessions. So I really don't know how people normally react to that. Is it no big deal to anybody else? It's no big deal and it's a gigantic deal. Of course it's horridly uncomfortable in the begining, for one thing the monitor keeps you 'awake' or conscious or focused, quite often theres a neg reaction to this. You working PJ's RV and that dosen't include a monitor/structure as far as I can tell, your a solo. I work Terri ERV and that includes a monitor and not just somone off the street with a quick run down. There's quite a delicat touch to monitoring.. a lost art i'm afraid. You trust your monitor no questions asked.. if you have questions don't even bother, coz when you go into monitored session, your basically in the monitors handds, may as well be the best. Yes, it feels weird when you are first live monitored. The same tgt, via the same or different taskers or monitors can or will come thru differently and you will be clueless. It's not the tasking or monitor.. it's you. Well, that describes a viewer - clueless.. That's RVing... RVing is not for identifying or labeling.. not as I know it.. or is that the new breed. You expect to know and identify a site as soon as you 'open' to it? Give it up.. that's not RV. Your in this for you ( not the monitor not the tasker), after you discard all the considerations and just deal with what you get of target. then your on. I think your dealing with too too much left brain.. considerations. You'll never wear all hats IMO in session.. All the best ~~Terri Reply | Forward

#1808

From: "Jason S. Shapiro" Date: Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:05 pm Subject: Haiku Contest fetik3 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 I wanted to send this to the list earlier, but I've been SWAMPED with final exams. In any case, I just wanted to thank PJ for putting on this great contest :) It was an absolute delight to see the creativity of the members of this list! So, thank you PJ for coming up with idea, and thanks to everyone who participated :) -Jason Reply | Forward

#1811

From: Rfjuice... Date: Fri Dec 20, 2002 4:43 am Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors rfjuice2000 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > Do monitored sessions add a performance anxiety > rather than a greater ability to let go? Hi, I've never had the opportunity to have a monitored session, but I believe I would most probably have more difficulty focusing/relaxing to get to the target. But then I am the type that doesn't like people watching me. Just knowing that someone else is waiting for me to get to the target would take some of my focus away. I like to wait for myself to be in the right, "oh who cares" mood. . Maybe personality has a lot to do with it. Many people do seem to get a lot out of it. Take care, Linda ----------------------------- Moderator's note: I'm one of those people who even goes out of the way to sit in corner booths and with my back to the wall in public places. Left over hypervigilant habits from childhood I guess. I really dislike the feeling of being watched and am generally a very private person (you'd never know it via internet, lol). So maybe my inhibition response isn't unusual. :-) -- PJ Reply | Forward

#1812

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Fri Dec 20, 2002 5:22 pm Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha PJ, > I'm one of those people who even goes out of > the way to sit in corner booths and with my back > to the wall in public places. [...] I really > dislike the feeling of being watched and am > generally a very private person I always take the seat facing everything... but the wall (restaurants/etc)as well...Guess I saw too many mafia movies...never face your back to the door!...haha...I did learn to overcome the inhibition of being watched though...I took a class in public speaking in 9th grade...and many handicapped students happened to be in that summer school class...many with literal speech impediments...not just nervous stuttering like I was manifested as a small child and body shakes/red face/sweats as a teen)...their bravery was so overpowering it shamed me into overcoming fear of standing in front of a classroom... Whereas it took a few more years to overcome being terrified of entering a large room of people alone (like the school cafeteria)...I did eventually perform in many plays(college/clubs)...but the absolute deliberateness of these stage performances (plus rehearsals)were ...I believe was a plus...For some reason I trusted the anonymous audiences... When I attended Mary Smiths Group Insight development classes (originally established for suffers of chronic pain (primarily back injuries and teaching them to control their pain relieving them from being forced to take the massive legal drugs they were burdened with))...in the 70's.(Honolulu ...not our PJRV Mary Smith)..we learned to meditate...First learning to center... then to reach REM sleep and then going on guided journeys...the goal to firmly establish Self Insight...and thus selfcontrol...physical/mental... and it eventually worked for the great majority...these people were almost at the end of their ropes...drug therapies were killing them... Trust was never a question...and her mellow/soothing/kind voice was an asset...She did not direct our journey ...she merely helped set the framework... and gently kept us in session...awake...she was a member of Esalan and several other Institutes worldwide...and we all greatly benefited from her education/experience... I think I would do well with a monitor...if I could get past the trust barrier... and that might well be quite a hurdle for me... I visited a fairly popular hypnotist in the seventies...to try to get some help to quit smoking...I was not even sure I could be hypnotized...but as it went along ...I became quite surprised that it was beginning to work...and then the guy made a lethal mistake...he said "You no longer have any power...I have complete control over you"...I snapped out of it peremptorily!...and left...and never went back... I also became aware that only this guy and I were aware of what was going on...and no way I could trust a complete stranger and give up all my own power... and to such a pompous ass at that!...Trust is mandatory... I don't see Rv as giving up my power to anything or anyone..(of course I have never had a monitor)...I see it as shifting control from one part of self to another...I feel much more comfortable with this scenario......My higher self is my higher power...I figure if I can't trust myself...who can I trust... Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna Reply | Forward

#1819

From: aeonblueau8008... Date: Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:06 pm Subject: Re: RV Angst / Monitors terri8008 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > Moderator's note: I'm one of those people who > even goes out of the way to sit in corner booths > and with my back to the wall in public places. > Left over hypervigilant habits from childhood I > guess. I really dislike the feeling of being > watched and am generally a very private person . . . The feeling of being watched.. oh gosh and what/other control issues... I understand that, but you get over it. It's not like being watched, it's more like working in tandem with someone (you (right brained)depend and trust in them). Well, I guess you have to get over yourself. It's not all that hard once you do it. I'm sorry you have such a hurdle. But it's no biggie once you jump it. My hang-ups are snoring.. I don't want anyone to suffer my snoring, then again if I snore, I'm too deep, sometimes I say or refer to one or two pillow sessions, One pillow I'll snore, that keeps me more aware(solo), two pillows i'm pretty much good, dont go too deep. at least I don't snore. The other day yesterday or the day before... I was sitting in a chair, I crossed my arms and legs, let my head drop, I knew I was a goner... I was asleep trying like hell to keep the bod upright, god this is all so hard. Some targets pull you deep like that, but it's not pretty (glory be to the monitor who tries to pull a session outa me before I've slept it off) I'm not watched during session, monitor is like my right hand an extension of me. I can be a bit lax, I know and depend on monitor to pull descriptive from me, move me about, keep me somewhat cognizant. I'm dependent on the monitor, guess that's the way I was raised. It's a comforting feeling, I don't have to think all to much in session. You might try... having a totally absolutely darkened room.. have your monitor sit way across the room, 20'. (Voice, sound seem amplified to me during session.) Try that.. your totally in the dark no ones looking at you. (and your safe) (personal)paranoia doesn't even enter in to a session.... Your in this for self and that's the only thing-being that's there. That's about it. All the best ~~Terri ---------------------- Moderator's note: in the note above, I wasn't talking about sessions anymore. Just general response to environment in life. I didn't feel watched or paranoid in the session, LOL! I'm almost sorry I mentioned it now since it seems like in conversation it got made into a bigger thing than it really was. Appreciate the comments though. -- PJ pjrv : Messages : 1875-1876 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/1875?)
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#1875

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Mon Dec 30, 2002 4:05 pm Subject: Re: Re: RV Angst / Monitors maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha Guys, This is where I was trying to end up with that last long rambling post I wrote...Trust...I have come to learn to respect my own opinion so much...trust myself...that I would really have to respect the monitor/their opinions a lot...to let theirs over rule mine...and might very well not be able to stay in focus...were they to try to steer me in such a way that I be-came aware of it...Just the idea could mess me up...Ego says...even when they are correct and I am not!.I prefer to experience it......haha...I am high anxiety level... My ego is now so time worn...that it is aware that it has been wrong many times...hahah...and will in all probability be wrong again...haha... The thing I am greatful for is that I have arrived at this juncture in my life...and have the nerve to eventually just chuckle when I am incorrect!... haha...It yousto really bug me to be wrong...on anything!...haha I need to analyze my own actions...without feedback that would be impossible with RV...and if I became aware that they had steered me in another direction...and I was still unsure of their judgement...compared to mine...I would probably fall out of focus... I even had bones to pick with the RV test at gotpsi when it was Boundary Institute... a couple of years ago...I noticed it was doing some very lousy judging...(in my novice book anyway!)...It was giving me very high points for a lousy session and low scores for hits... I talked to Dean Radin PEM...(as I am sure many others did also)...and Dean now has a RV test where it asks for our judging analysis of a target...Just us regular gotpsi test takers...Whereas before... it was on the consensus of a number of ananomous 'experts'...So the focus group has broadened to include many random opinions...I wonder what they have discovered from this...(I learned a great deal from gotpsi...even from the RV test)... Hey...Let's ask Dean Raden if we can grill /interview him sometime?...haha... He is a wonderful guy and maybe he will even come on the group for a while when he has time... Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna Reply | Forward

#1876

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Mon Dec 30, 2002 4:13 pm Subject: Re: Re: RV Angst / Monitors maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha guys, There is a definate correlation here to talk show hosts and moderators...and talent and viewer...hahah...I have heard this stroy told many times about the guest from hell...and now I see it is correlated...Guest/viewer...Don't ask me what this correlation means...hahah Ahhh...Maybe PJ's "Drama Queens"?...

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