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pjrv : Messages : 3618-3618 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3618?)
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#3618

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:05 pm Subject: Psychic Avoidance pjgaenir Hi you guys. I've started becoming more aware lately of 'psychic avoidance'. In this case what I mean is, avoidance of psychic (RV) sessions because for whatever reason, I am emotionally/subconsciously in avoidance of the content of the target, or the experience, or whatever. I notice that sometimes, I can't get around to the session. Then I can't seem to get in contact, fall asleep, whatever. Sometimes it takes me 3 days to get to that 'daily' target finally, and often the session is in relatively useless 6 minute pieces. Finally I've decided there is a statute of limitations for practice sessions and if it isn't done in 3 days, I'm getting feedback and moving on. I often find in these cases however, that the target is something I can kinda understand my psyche maybe wanting to avoid. The risk of such a varied target pool, I guess. I am thinking that there are times in the past when I put off doing a session for so long it became a substantial pause in practice, and it might have been partly because the next target likely to come up is something my subconscious wanted to avoid. I have noticed that on targets with high violence or trauma, I often have a lot of physical abreactions during the sessions. An abreaction is an involuntary muscular spasm or jerk. I was taught to look for responses like this in hypnotic subjects and that it indicated that on some level they were rejecting something, their body was not allowing it to fully process. It does seem to have a similar meaning with me; it is as if my nervous system is somehow involved in the passage of information, and at some point in my body something is saying NO!--and it "shunts off" into the sudden motion, instead. I seem to get more of these with 'big' and sudden traumas. I had a few in a target of the OK City bombing; I had so many for a target that was a Mexico City earthquake operation that I couldn't even do the session. I could only write that the target was very traumatic and my body wasn't feeling well enough to do the session. I also notice that often, my emotional response to the target will be an indicator of the target content. For example, once in awhile I've gone to all the trouble to get privacy, time, get in state, start the session, and suddenly I just don't want to do the session, I mean really intensely just don't want to do it anymore. It nearly always turns out this is a disturbing target content. If I had a monitor or had to turn in session results I'm sure I'd be more disciplined, but it's easy to tell myself I'll do it another time in those cases... For a long time I used to tell myself that I was 'intensely bored', a strange feeling I would often get, often IN a session but also on a larger scale, after so many practice sessions. One day I realized that there is no such thing as intensely bored. Boredom is by nature a listless and passive thing; the intensity was actually part of avoidance, denial; "I'm so bored I can't stand it any more". But like in biofeedback, the 'dead'--no response--reading doesn't represent a lack of feeling or response. It represents a suppression of response. I think the 'fear of psi' thing is in here somewhere also. PJ pjrv : Messages : 3622-3661 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3622?)
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#3622

From: "Elizabeth Hambrook" Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 7:09 am Subject: Re: Psychic Avoidance ozblueriver Hi PJ, that was all very interesting. I haven't done any 'negative' targets yet except one. It was a train accident and all I got was discriptions of the surrounding country side with was very pretty. I was grateful that my sub. was trustworthy to keep me 'safe' from viewing the dead bodies. I wouldn't look at all the death if I didn't really need to and my sub. knew that. I think your sub is being just as polite and caring of you and that's a good thing. I'm sure that if we needed to have that information in a real situation then our subs. would recognise that need and give us the information without blocking it for us. I think our subs. give us what we want, not what we think we want. LOL And often there is a real difference. You're really good at watching for body signs. I haven't done that. I must start taking note of how my body reacts. By the way, just out of curiosity, why do you put 'negative' targets' in your pool? How do you think they help in learning? cheers Liz Reply | Forward

#3625

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:51 am Subject: Re: Psychic Avoidance pjgaenir Hiya Liz, > It was a train accident and all I got was discriptions of the surrounding > country side with was very pretty. I was grateful that my sub. was > trustworthy to keep me 'safe' from viewing the dead bodies. I used to think the same thing, about the same type of experience. I have begun to realize though, that at least for me, that was just an assumption. The fact was, I did not get a lot of human data period, beyond tiny bits, to begin with. Over time I am beginning to get more human data, and more data across the board, and more sketchable data, and in some cases, more data related to what I call the core (e.g., the cause of the target if the target is something with a specific cause). It appears to be a process of evolution, unless I am deluding myself lol. Long ago, Lyn and Bill and Paul and Joe and others said plainly that with time and practice, viewers began getting more data, and a wider variety of data, that this was part of skill increasing. Somehow I assumed on that yet as it's begun happening it keeps surprising me. And delighting me. I am leaving the days of left brain focus on facts somewhat... they will come as part of it anyway... I am getting MUCH more into the experience of it all. RV is like a drug... I want more. I see photos and I think damn, I can't wait to see how my mind would respond to that! and I grab it for my target pool. > I think your sub is being just as polite and caring of you and that's a good thing. I think my sub is in fact supplying me with the information, and my body-psychology is not willing to deal with it, and that's why I get such abreactions and physical responses to some negative-trauma targets. I think a lot of this is just a matter of continuing to practice, though. I think as my viewing skill develops I'll be able to express the data in a larger spectrum of ways, some of which might be easier for me. Most the negative (that's subjective, but you know what I mean, trauma) data that I get now, I get through my black aspect. An ambulance humor, twisted. One example I give is on a target where 21 miners were shot by state militia (the target was the funeral parade), I got, "Soft little bodies." with an 'undertone' of 'puncture easily'. I felt multiple people had been shot. This black aspect looks at humans like it's not, a real separation. Anyway, I think as I get more practiced, data like that is trying to come to me a lot more directly and I'm just going through the moves of working on adapting to it. I get a lot of body-response in targets and I didn't used to. A sense of flying and lifting off in some targets with that, or my body might translate an emotion, like feeling as if I'm turning side to side trying to 'keep something away from me'. I sometimes feel something and realize it belongs to a person in the target, not me. And often the sense of traveling clairvoyance, of 'flying over' the target and looking down with a sort of 'fuzzy visual'. So far the only thing I am still consistently screwing up is some emotions. When the emotion actually ties into something I might feel myself, I tend to think it's mine. For example after having trouble doing a session for awhile I finally got through and was having a good session and I was so delighted, I just felt ebulliant, and I was kinda laughing at myself about how happy I was. Well that was the target... I was just taking it on, lol. It would have helped to be more aware. > By the way, just out of curiosity, why do you put 'negative' targets' in your pool? How do you think they help in learning? I put EVERY kind of target in my pool. Everything. As long as I average a decent number of sessions per week, I'll work through enough for value. As the Poster Child For How RV Should Be Done I was following all the rules of proper target selection for new viewer development and eventually I realized, I can't stand this. Granted, even a barn is interesting when done in RV, but over time, the same basics get so repetitive and that alone was giving me some AOL (I was using Dr. May's perfectly moderate bandwidth target pool, as he was kind enough to give me a copy). I decided that the baby steps I was walking myself through--now that I finally, finally! have time to do RV--weren't necessary. I might be relatively new to finally getting to practice, but I have 8 years of conceptual understanding behind me and just enough RV in those years to make real use of that, so I'm not a true beginner and I'm certainly not "fragile". I decided I would collect a giant target pool of cool stuff, everything I could think of, and JUST DO IT. I would make sure I had so many photos that making one a target would never be a 'waste', even if the session got no data or sucked. So, that's what I'm doing. My targets cover the entire spectrum of everything you can imagine. It helps deal with AOL from having made the (~800+) pool, and it's darn interesting experience. It's real. I want to be able to do ops someday and I want to have as wide a vocabulary of psi experience as possible to that end. Many of the best pics of the last century are (alas) negatives in some fashion. I'm going to have to learn to deal with that eventually. I wouldn't make this decision for other viewers, but I can make it for myself. So I made myself an 'advanced' target pool, and I just wade through it and see what I get. Most of it is still outclassing me--I don't get the info depth I could, given the quality of many of them--but I trust that will come. I should add one last thing. If you have a train wreck and you don't get the bodies, it might simply be that the bodies are not the most relevant data. As I develop over time I find I'm more likely to get info that seems to relate to cause and primary concept (possibly because that is my intent). And often that means that if you're looking at some overall disaster, the most relevant data is not the blood everywhere, it is the element(s) that caused the disaster. For example, the first time I got the Exxon Valdez as a target I got black grit/dirt, layers and a white structure that held people I thought might be a hotel, the primary info was the black. In other words, the 'presented' target in FB. The next time I got that target I had more experience. I sketched what even to me was obviously a ship propeller, a couple things related to something coming up around the bottom of something, and something which had been broken or torn apart from itself and the shape of that, and my sense of the ship and the oil was different as well. In other words, not just the presented target now, but more focus on the 'cause' of the presented target when the target 'could not exist independently of the cause'. Now, I've had a few targets 3 times just by chance as I had a previous pool as well, so I know that data differs on a target each time. But I find that over time my data seems to get a little more specific to the point of it all, vs. describing every possible stupid thing visible anywhere in the FB picture lol. When I get a photo as a target feedback that has people and circumstance, and it is traumatic, I tend to get the other physicals. Not the people. But if the picture is nothing whatever except the person as the focus, that is when I sometimes run into that 'denial/avoidance of session' I was talking about. Then, tuning into them up close and personal isn't avoidable--as they ARE the target. Regards, PJ PS Blame yahoo for this tome. My original was much shorter and yahoo ate it. :-) Reply | Forward

#3626

From: "Monika Preston" Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:20 am Subject: RE: Re: Psychic Avoidance karimchris Online Now Send IM Hi :-) Just my 2 cents worth to your discussion. In my experience writing down physical sensations when viewing disturbing targets as EI (emotional impact) has proved to be very helpful. For me that verbalization acts like writing down my AOLs. I feel better and I can continue viewing. Take care, Monika Reply | Forward

#3631

From: "Elizabeth Hambrook" Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:55 am Subject: Re: Re: Psychic Avoidance ozblueriver Hi PJ, > Liz wrote: > I think your sub is being just as polite and caring of you > and that's a good thing. > PJ wrote: > I think my sub is in fact supplying me with the information, > and my body-psychology is not willing to deal with it, and > that's why I get such abreactions and physical responses to > some negative-trauma targets. I think a lot of this is just > a matter of continuing to practice, though. Just after I read this post I picked up my book (The User Illusion) and read how we can lie verbally but our bodies can't lie. Body langueage is the truth of how we feel. I've never taken much notice of my own body reactions. I guess it's because I live so much in my head. It looks like I'd better start. :) > This black aspect looks at humans like it's not, a real separation. Could you please explain that a bit more. > ... I sometimes feel something and realize it belongs to a person > in the target, not me. And often the sense of traveling clairvoyance, > of 'flying over' the target and looking down with a sort of 'fuzzy > visual'. Not long ago I noticed that I just accepted information during a session and never took notice of how I got it. In a way I have just taken it for granted that I will get information and never thought I needed to know the subtle differences of *how* that information forms/arrives/is derived etc. And that is amazing to me. It's like I just see the picture and never notice how it got there, if it's moving or still, if it's fuzzy or clear, if it's black and white or colour, etc. I have never taken note of any of this while RVing. I just take internal dictation, so to speak. How unaware can I get!? And yet, when I go to bed at night and do my usual internal viewing before I go to sleep, I'm aware of so much of the above. I take note of everything I can because it is the experience I love. I'm not driven by any sense of 'getting it right'. I just enjoy it. So even though I do RV because I love the experience it seems my wanting to 'get it right' has blocked a lot. Hurmph! I'm going to have to change my ways. LOL Now that I think about it, I never take note of my body because my attention is always internal. Well, then again, it's not exactly internal because I can view internally with my eyes open and still be aware of the physical plane. Hmmmm. Maybe I have just never considered my physical body as a source of information so never take notice of it. When you say you're body reacts I assume you are talking about your physical body. I do get body reactions but they are in my 'other body'. For example if I'm flying off a cliff I will get a horrible lurch in my stomach but it's not in my physical stomach. It's in the stomach that's just leaped off a cliff. As I write this I've realized there is a huge difference between how I view for fun and how I view for RV. Hmmm, more to ponder. ;) I'm wondering if we get less information about a target in the early stages of learning than we do after a few years of practice. OR Is it more likely that we have always been given just as much information but have learnt over time to become aware of it. I'd say the second one is true. > So far the only thing I am still consistently screwing up is some > emotions. When the emotion actually ties into something I might feel > myself, I tend to think it's mine. Emotions on the psi level is something that has always puzzled me. When I'm in 'that' state I am usually totally emotionless. I am usually an observer only. And yet if I'm viewing a target that has emotional content I get a knowing that it is happy, sad etc. I don't feel it, I just know it. > the most relevant data [...] is the element(s) that caused the disaster. Ok, that makes sense. But honestly, I think sometimes I don't see some things because I'm just crappy at it. LOL > Blame yahoo for this tome. My original was much shorter and yahoo ate it. Ok, but you can blame yourself for my long post because your tome was interesting enough to get me writing all this. LOL cheers Liz PS thanks for answering why you put 'neg' targets in your pool. I'm too much of a woos to do that as yet. LOL Reply | Forward

#3632

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:18 am Subject: Re: Psychic Avoidance pjgaenir Howdy Liz, > Body langueage is the truth of how we feel. > I've never taken much notice of my own body > reactions. I think somehow--this is speculation--we actually TRANSLATE psi information, or at least "pass it along to the brain", THROUGH the body. I think for this reason, health can potentially affect viewing, and this might be one of several reasons why exercise a little prior to a session can seem like it helps. I'm not saying one has to be 'fit' to view, I'm saying I think that the 'nervous system' may be somewhat involved, and so enough body movement to prevent major blocks of energy from taking up residence in the body is probably good. > > This black aspect looks at humans like it's not, a real > > separation. > Could you please explain that a bit more. I-as-it pretty much always, as part of the way the info comes across, perceives humans as something different than itself/myself. No I'm not saying I am an alien (hahaha!) although that would be right in line in this field wouldn't it. ;-) I'm just saying that there is a very specific feel to that Aspect that I actually love just because it is so 'novel', it only provides info that relates to human death (so far--it is useless for anything else thus far) and it thinks of humans and bodies as something just... different than whatever its perspective is, I think that is part of why it's the black humor, it is truly separated, but rather more than even our ambulance humor is. It's a bit of a trip to be honest but it isn't often I get data from this Aspect. In conversation in a session it once told me the effort to 'translate' to me even tiny amounts of info was really exhausting. Who knows why. I guess it is just some part of me that doesn't get out much. ;-) > Not long ago I noticed that I just accepted information > during a session and never took notice of how I got it. I once sat down and for 'visuals' alone came up with 7 or 8 ways I get visual information. It was enlightening because I realized that often, 'how' I get it will clue me into whether it is literal or symbolic, how likely it is to be accurate, etc. This is part of "being aware of how your mind works" of course. For a few sessions I started writing down 'how' various data came to me, out of interest. > I take note of everything I can because it is the experience > I love. I'm not driven by any sense of 'getting it right'. > I just enjoy it. Now you see, I think this is a critical point worthy of a thread of its own. I have really found--as have others I've talked with--that getting rid of the overkill on 'must... be... accurate!' does wonders for the RV process. For some people, doing wildcard sessions so the viewer actually doesn't get feedback all the time helps as they are less neurotic about it when they don't expect judgement promptly. (Whether this helps with the belief system issues and learning theory issues is another story obviously. But I guess it helps with the neurosis issue, lol!) For me it actually came about differently. I made sure I had enough photographs that I could make one a target and never feel like I was wasting something valuable and precious if my session sucked, that was the first thing, targets were hard to come by initially so screwing one up was a tragedy lol, not any more. Secondly, doing daily (or at least close to daily) RV solved the rest in a reverse sort of way; it has shifted my interest in RV from 'can I get objectively accurate data' to 'oh cool I love this experience like a drug mmmm gimme more!'. Now some people will polarize this and say that the need for experience overrides the need for accuracy and that's how a lot of boneheaded ideas come into the RV field, but to me, those ideas stand or fall on their own; I don't see how anybody can RV regularly and *not* fall in love with the experience eventually, not feel it 'feeds' one, not have a little crush on all the parts of themselves they are getting to know for the first time. I have come to suspect that this is probably the dividing line for what eventually makes a truly rocking viewer vs. doesn't; like acting, or art, or anything else, eventually, people view not because 'it's fun' or a hobby but because they cannot avoid it; they do it like they breathe, because they must, because it becomes an innate part of the needs of their existence. > When you say you're body reacts I assume you are talking > about your physical body. Much of the data I get in RV translates to a very subtle/abstract 'sense'. So it is not the physical body as literally as just seeing, hearing, tasting something would be. But I still translate it as the physical body; just real subtle. If this is 'the astral body' or what have you, fine; I don't differentiate that. If I have to make that division then I guess most my data is not fully physical, or not in 'this' body. But during the session I consider them related. If I'm in a session and I get a pain in my back, or my leg jerks, I consider this related to my experience, not because I assume every minute thing is, but because over time I have found that my body during session does seem to have its own responses and sometimes communications with me. > As I write this I've realized there is a huge difference > between how I view for fun and how I view for RV. Hmmm, > more to ponder. ;) I am in that boat when it comes to viewing people. Psychically you can tune into anybody, that isn't rocket science, yet I am just beginning to get more people/animal data in targets. Joe tells me it is just another kind of data, for some people it follows other kinds, and I'll get it better over time, which has turned out to be true. I think this oughtta be fun. I think the delight in it, and fascination with it, all the other stuff that relates to something being fun, is part of what can help make someone good at it. > I'm wondering if we get less information about a target > in the early stages of learning than we do after a few years > of practice. OR Is it more likely that we have always been > given just as much information but have learnt over time to > become aware of it. I'd say the second one is true. Researchers I know say they believe the target info is gotten in a split second. What varies is the ability of the individual to flesh it out, to re-tune into themselves for it. Or as I said in an old Firedocs intro, to fork it out of themselves like a spaghetti squash, lol. Of course there are different belief systems in this field about that. Many feel the whole matrix concept of the data Over- There beaming into us is a valid model. > Emotions on the psi level is something that has always > puzzled me. When I'm in 'that' state I am usually totally > emotionless. I am usually an observer only. Maybe this is not about how you really are, but about how you are allowing yourself to be. You may choose to get the data indirectly now, but over time you may begin to get it more directly. I guess only time will tell! PJ Reply | Forward

#3635

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:14 pm Subject: Re: Re: Psychic Avoidance docsavagebill Hello PJ, I have a couple of opinons on psychic avoidance. The major block I'm sure is 'fear of failure'. However, I also have evidence that when we tune in psychically to things they can become stored in our aura as little nodules, and unless properly released out of the aura.. they can cause auric indigestion or neurotic behaviour from subconcious feelings radiating from the nodules. Most of this comes from Rob Abbott who can see such "packets". But I have some personl experience also. For instance if I'm working on a target and get all serious about getting the correct results,.I get all kinds of compulsions to work more on it and it keeps bugging me. This taxes the nervous system. And will eventually build resistance to doing targets IMO. That's why I try to keep it all fun and games. The less pressure the better. Best Regards,Bill Reply | Forward

#3642

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:57 pm Subject: Re: Psychic Avoidance pjgaenir Hi doc, > also have evidence that when we tune in psychically to > things they can become stored in our aura as little > nodules, and unless properly released out of the > aura.. they can cause auric indigestion or neurotic > behaviour from subconcious feelings radiating from the > nodules. Hmmmn. Well, my belief systems holds that I am actually sort of... evoking the target out of myself, which means we are pretty well merged during the process by that way of thinking. Perhaps a more concerted effort like a chakra med would help. Still, I gotta tell you, the idea that I just have AURIC INDIGESTION from the PSYCHIC NODULES strikes me as a truly hilarious quote. :-) I suppose a cleansing med would probably be good for anybody to do daily anyway, but especially if they're deliberately tuning into other aspects of the universe. Thanks for the idea, maybe that will help a little, who knows. PJ Reply | Forward

#3646

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:38 am Subject: Re: Re: Psychic Avoidance docsavagebill Hi PJ, LOL.. I agree! I think everyone in the psi field should get auric cleansings as a regular thing..JUst as important as brushing your teeth..G Bill > Still, I gotta tell you, the idea that I just have > AURIC INDIGESTION > from the PSYCHIC NODULES strikes me as a truly > hilarious quote. :-) > I suppose a cleansing med would probably be good for > anybody to do > daily anyway, but especially if they're deliberately > tuning into > other aspects of the universe. Reply | Forward

#3637

From: Rfjuice... Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:57 pm Subject: Re: Re: Psychic Avoidance rfjuice2000 > I get a lot of body-response in targets and I didn't used to. A > sense of flying and lifting off in some targets with that, or my body > might translate an emotion, like feeling as if I'm turning side to > side trying to 'keep something away from me'. I sometimes feel > something and realize it belongs to a person in the target, not me. Hi PJ, I did a target not that long ago, where there was a really loud gunshot that went off next to me, I heard it clear as day and jumped a mile. But the funny thing is, I'm so dopey coming out of the session quickly, that it takes me a few minutes to figure out if it was real or not, like gunshots in my living room are an everyday thing or something... I kept wondering why the kids were just sitting there like nothing had happened. :> Once in a long while I get a charades type answer. My mom was having surgery and I tried to see if the surgery would go well (talk about a frightening target ). Anyway, you know what I saw? I saw a man pick up a spear, and thought the word "up" then I saw him throw it and thought the word "chuck". When I talked to her, I mentioned it, and she said the first time she had the same surgery she had thrown up afterward and it caused problems. So she mentioned it to her doctor and they gave her some medications to stop her from throwing up this time. Interesting, huh? I just don't get why I didn't see a person throwing up though, maybe that was psychic avoidance... :> I hate throw up.. By the way the surgery went well, Linda Reply | Forward

#3640

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:41 pm Subject: Re: Psychic Avoidance pjgaenir Hi Linda, > I did a target not that long ago, where there was a really loud > gunshot that went off next to me, I heard it clear as day and > jumped a mile. I've had a couple of targets that were aspects of the OKC bombing, and in one, I got the bomb. I mean it was so freakin loud, I was sitting on the bed and I nearly came off it I was so startled. That one made quite an impact. Unfortunately, it was so severe it literally through me out of the groovy state of mind I'd worked so hard to get in. I was suddenly in super-alert high anxiety mode. > takes me a few minutes to figure out if it was > real or not, like gunshots in my > living room are an everyday thing or something... I hear a lot of 'sounds' in ordinary life that are not in this reality. I don't want to say they are in other realities because how would I know where they really come from?--but that is what I tend to assume. Some quiet, some loud, some sudden, and while many of them are the sort of surprising sounds (like a door closing hard), many are just daily life sounds. My mind has learned to suppress awareness of sound until it has determined whether it belongs in this reality I think. One of the side effects of daily RV is that I start to interject my awareness into that process. Start to become aware of the sounds and then my mind categorizing them as 'not here' and so my mind just ignoring them. > Once in a long while I get a charades type answer. Yeah? I get a lot of that with aspects sometimes. I think it would be cool if smells for example were as strong for me in session as occasionally a sound is. So far that's never happened. PJ Reply | Forward

#3643

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:33 am Subject: Re: Re: Psychic Avoidance docsavagebill LOL. Hi LInda, great metaphore..but who or what do you think directs the subcon to give us these puns and why? Just to test our wits? .G Best Regards, Bill > Once in a long while I get a charades type answer. Reply | Forward

#3661

From: Rfjuice... Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 4:56 am Subject: Re: Re: Psychic Avoidance rfjuice2000 > docsavagebill wrote: > Hi LInda, great metaphore..but who or what do you > think directs the subcon to give us these puns and > why? Just to test our wits? .G Hahaha wish I knew! I'm always the last one in the room to get the joke, so they must be having a good old time with me :> Linda

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