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Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/
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pjrv : Messages : 2238-2301 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/2238?)
23:48:43
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#2238

From: "waterway_21 " Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 12:21 pm Subject: PSI Missing research waterway_21 Can anyone point me to some research on PSI missing. You know, the effect you get of significantly WRONG hits by people convinced PSI doesn't exist. I would expect this type of information to be limited since most researchers want to find significanlty correct sessions, and getting unbelievers to volunteer for testing would also be a pain. But I get the feeling that, if this phenomenon exists, it tells us a lot about how the process works. I'm new to the forum, so I was looking back in the archives and came across a number of instances of unexpected patterns that don't seem to fit, and this Missing PSI phenomenon is one of them. I think these aberations that don't make any sense.... actually are traits of the real dynamics.... we just don't know how they all fit together... well, I don't anyway. Thanks for any information you can provide. Reply | Forward

#2243

From: "Glyn" Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 4:50 am Subject: RE: PSI Missing research gebega Hi 'Waterway', I think that can also happen with those that do think 'psi' exists. For example, on one occasion I was trying some on-line card guessing experiments and was doing so badly that I got really frustrated and figured that I may do better if I deliberately tried to score low. I actually went through the next run of 25 guesses and scored zero I couldn't manage it again though, even though I tried, but on that particular occasion I was scoring consistently below chance. I find those card guessing games very boring though and do not like them; probably because I do not believe I am any good at them......which of course could be because I'm not; but just believing this could set up a cycle of failure. I do think that belief is very important , because it can get entrenched deep down. If someone consciously does not believe in psi, but deep down does (and may even be afraid of it), then I can see how there would be a subconscious desire to score low so as not to unnerve themselves; or even to prove a point. If they have a good level of natural psi ability then this could result in scoring way below chance. I suspect that keeping low scoring consistent is just as difficult as the other way round, which is why there's not a lot of it about. :-) Regards, Glyn -----Original Message----- From: waterway_21 [mailto:bbogle...ration.com] Can anyone point me to some research on PSI missing. You know, the effect you get of significantly WRONG hits by people convinced PSI doesn't exist. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Forward

#2256

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Sun Feb 9, 2003 3:08 pm Subject: Re: PSI Missing research maliolana Aloha Glyn, I suspect that keeping low scoring consistent is just as difficult as the other way round, which is why there's not a lot of it about. :-){ Well as a fairly consistant below chancer......I have to say ...It was extremely easy ...to maintain a well below average...When I try really hard... I am much closer to average...haha... I think I am getting better...but the stats will tell ...huh?...haha...haven't RVed in over a month...I been slacking...but ...I am about to get on the horse...once again... I find those card guessing games very boring though and do not like them; probably because I do not believe I am any good at them......which of course could be because I'm not; but just believing this could set up a cycle of failure.{ I also didn't think I would be that good at the cards...and both proved...and disproved my theory in a couple of years time...less than half the time...I did right well...but more than half the time...I went low enough ...to lower the overall average... I found the card games kinda boring as well...I got bad headaches the first 6 mo or so...especially when I played the game for over an hour or so...but after Dean added in the flashing colors...that gave a moving spectrum for me to focus on...a new demention in a way...and that was more challenging to my '?' whatever...and my score went up... Intrigue/adventure... I believe ...may play a part...and the sequential card game...was great for a while...I scored great for several weeks...and then I guess got bored with it...or my biorythyms went low...or what?...I think our response to the one dimension...is that what it is?...of the pictures on the cards...may feel ...too limiting... I am surprised ...at how frequently I do get the small signs... that sometimes come up ...under the card in place of a picture...the one where it just says 'correct'!...I think that is trippy...because I have not been aware... in advance ...that it was just words...yet usually get it correct... Even when I ARV...many times ...I think I actually go to/access... the actual site...the movement of the real thing...helps me draw my ideograms... Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Forward

#2260

From: "waterway_21 " Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:24 am Subject: Re: PSI Missing research waterway_21 Glyn, Thanks for your reply. Your insight is valuable. At one point you stated: "I do think that belief is very important , because it can get entrenched deep down. If someone consciously does not believe in psi, but deep down does (and may even be afraid of it), then I can see how there would be a subconscious desire to score low so as not to unnerve themselves; or even to prove a point. If they have a good level of natural psi ability then this could result in scoring way below chance." Yes, I see that, but I cannot keep all this straight since its sounding a lot like the old arguement in support of the validity of Freudian psychodynamics. If the patient admits they have problems, then its a breakthrough, if they don't admit they have an issue, then they are obviously repressing it.... there is no way to disprove the theory..... Of course, it may still be TRUE. It just seems that if their unconscious mind is clever enough go to the trouble of hiding the feared reality of PSI, it should be able to understand that being significantly WRONG is still significant. It would doubtless be clever enough to be subtle and produce insignificant results. UNLESS.... it really WANTS to be found out.... and some unconscious mind it trying to expose itself..... through significant MISSES. Hmm..... Anyway... it still doesn't explain much since its so convoluted. There certainly seems to be some correlation between belief and significant results.... but what is the dynamic that produces that correlation? Reply | Forward

#2267

From: "Glyn" Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:57 pm Subject: RE: Re: PSI Missing research gebega Hi Waterway, -----Original Message----- From: waterway_21 [mailto:bbogle...ration.com] It just seems that if their unconscious mind is clever enough go to the trouble of hiding the feared reality of PSI, it should be able to understand that being significantly WRONG is still significant. It would doubtless be clever enough to be subtle and produce insignificant results. UNLESS.... it really WANTS to be found out.... and some unconscious mind it trying to expose itself..... through significant MISSES. Hmm..... I know, sometimes it almost seems that our sub has got it's own distinct 'personality'; and a very contrary one at that! :-). I think the problem may be one of communication though, and maybe the sub doesn't do any 'thinking' as such. There is obviously interaction between the upper and lower levels of our mind on an ongoing basis, and information seems to reach us from the sub in the form of 'packets' rather than words; even though we may go on to convert those concepts into words in our conscious minds. The trouble is, when we try to convey our intent to the sub, as in RV, we tend to think 'at it' , and not only in concepts, but words as well, all mixed up .and words may be redundant when dealing with an area of mind/brain that perhaps cannot handle language and does not (cannot) rationalise or reason. I think there are probably 'layers' to the unconscious mind, starting with that which is very close to being conscious (like where the unrealised/unacknowledged fear of psi we are talking about may occur), and so on down to the very deep; where lies the interface between our 'world' and...wherever we get the data. Communication must be a bit like playing a game of 'Chinese Whispers'..no wonder 'psi' isn't easy :-). Regards, Glyn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Forward

#2276

From: Benton Bogle Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:43 am Subject: RE: Re: PSI Missing research waterway_21 Hi Glyn, You stated: I know, sometimes it almost seems that our sub has got it's own distinct 'personality'; and a very contrary one at that! :-). Thanks for your response. I have been reading back through the archives PJ has put together, and in one post Lyn B., IIRC, comments that the subconscious does seem to have a personality of its own, and must be "encouraged" to participate in the RV process. It seems that affirmations and focusing and other preparations help with this, but can you discuss other things that help strengthen the activity of the subconscious to provide information? Perhaps instead of communicating in "words" or interpretations, the sub instead is attuned to "meaning" or importance of things. I get the feeling that the conscious mind, mediated by the personal ego, seems to communicate regarding the relationship of a thing, ie a chair is "something" because it was a gift, its my place in the living room, it shows my taste, etc. Things exist because they are defined by their relationship to other things. That's why AOL creeps in, when the trait we RV is suddenly joined to a bunch of other things because our conscious mind does that to stuff, it knows things by its relationships, so it wants to relate stuff....The conscious mind has no use for independent, unrelated information, and its usual MO is to just ignore it unless it can latch it into the schema it uses to define its world. It seems that the subconscious is more interested in how important something is, or its value of "meaning" or intimate importance. So perhaps the reason missing PSI can happen is because the subconscious isn't interested in "proving" the conscious ego's contention that PSI does not exist, and is actually trying to shout "I do exits". I sure would like to hear what you and others have to say about these musings. -Benton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Forward

#2283

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:10 pm Subject: RE: Re: Eye Movement Integrating left and right hemispheres for PTSD..and maybe RV? docsavagebill http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=367221 This link details a new method for trating post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) : Eye Movement Desensitisation and Reprocessing (EMDR). It is believed by some to be one of the most effective treatments for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). It supposedly integrates the right and left hemisphere so that deeprooted right hemisphere traumas can be relieved. However I wondered if it also might work for RV getting that hard to reach right hemisphere signal over to the left for output?? Best Regards, Bill __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com Reply | Forward

#2288

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:38 am Subject: Re: Re: Eye Movement Integrating left and right hemispheres for PTSD..and maybe RV? maliolana Aloha guys, A friend sent me these...Time spheres is intriging and color test a definately a brain teaser...left and right An Article: Time Spheres http://starbuilders.org/newstuff/articles/1time/ ("What we see through them is what we think is real.") The Right/Left Brain dilemma: The Color Test http://www.humorsphere.com/fun/colortest.swf (A "simple" color test) Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Forward

#2294

From: Rocheleh Date: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:38 pm Subject: Re: Re: Eye Movement Integrating left and right hemispheres for PTSD..and maybe RV? rochelehhakt... Bill Pendragon wrote: > This link details a new method for trating > post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) : Eye Movement > Desensitisation and Reprocessing (EMDR). It is > believed by some to be one of the most effective > treatments for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). > It supposedly integrates the right and left hemisphere > so that deeprooted right hemisphere traumas can be > relieved. However I wondered if it also might work for > RV getting that hard to reach right hemisphere signal > over to the left for output?? I read a bit into PTSD last summer, and I got the impression EMDR's effectiveness was debated, to say the least. If I have some time next week, I'll go check some of the psych journal databases our university subscribes to get the latest developments on this. I'm interested about this myself. After a quick netsearch, I've found that the Journal of Clinical Psychology (Wiley's) had an EMDR special issue last December. Full text is subscription-only, so it's still hoping my university is subscribed to it. (IIRC, it is.) Rachel Reply | Forward

#2301

From: "Eva " Date: Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:06 pm Subject: Re: PSI Missing research k9caninek9 Neg psi also may be a result of conflicting desires within the mind, much the same as the occasional Freudian slip. -E > Reply | Forward

#2245

From: "intuitwolf " Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 12:54 pm Subject: Re: PSI Missing research intuitwolf --- In pjrv...oups.com, "waterway_21 wrote: > Can anyone point me to some research on PSI missing. > > I think > these aberations that don't make any sense.... actually are traits of > the real dynamics.... we just don't know how they all fit together... > well, I don't anyway. > As I recall Dean Radin addresses the issue in Conscious Universe -- it' been a while since I read it and I gave my copy away so I can't look it up. I also recall Jessica Utts addressing it in some of her writings. Orr's law: 'Whatever the Thinker thinks, the Prover will prove'. Shelia

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