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RV Oasis / PJRV Discussion, Yahoo Groups.
Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/
Filetype: Archive. Topic: Remote Viewing. Blocked: by topic detail.
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/pjrv/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/pjrv/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



begin archive

pjrv : Messages : 76-119 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/76?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1)
20:39:23
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#76

From: "Bill & Sandy Ray" Date: Thu Jul 11, 2002 9:48 pm Subject: Re: Re: Problems with ideograms firedust2 Hi All; Liam here Just a short note on what is written below. Remember in CRV it is not what the ideogram looks like that counts, but it is the feeling and motion associated with the ideogram that is important. Decoding the ideogram is what, IMO, makes Stage 1 the hardest part of CRV slainte Liam I have found that spontaneous ids are easiest when I first of all look totally away from the paper and the hand doing the writing and second of, scribble that puppy as fast as I can. Just scribble like you are scribbling out some bits of incomplete writing or something like that and you have get it done before the boss comes around the corner. I do it so fast and since I am not looking, I have no idea what I will find on the paper until I turn my head back to look. It's a lot of fun doing it this way. ------------------ Moderator's note: right... which leads back to where doc started... Reply | Forward

#80

From: joan003...nk.net Date: Thu Jul 11, 2002 10:19 pm Subject: Re: Re: Problems with ideograms joanie003 <> Right and I think doc's question was is it worthwhile to train oneself in ideogram recognition as Lyn suggests? Well, since I am student of Lyn's (in CRV) I feel that YES it is definitely worthwhile for me as his student to train in the way that he suggests. I trust his teaching and his knowledge whole-beingly and I feel that his guidance for understanding ideograms has been an invaluable part of the learning process for me. The most important thing I've found is in that you have to train yourself to LET GO and BE IN THE MOMENT OF THE FEELING with the ideogram. So if you do practice drills for water, land, etc, (which by the way...I am behind on my drills...so I speak this humbly...), but this is what I feel to be the goal...the important thing is to NOT THINK ABOUT IT....just let the body make the squiggle. In that way you are "training" your own autonomic body response...it seems to me. In doing this and feeling oneself into the ideogram each time anew when actually doing a session...(that bitchy birthing process so it seems for me EVERY SINGLE TIME and one of the greatest resistances I have to sitting down and doing sessions), I think one does train their body to connect autonomically with target data, perhaps primarily gestalts, but other data as well. Once I get by the ideo..I am like a different person...it's like getting through that darn ideogram phase that's the truly difficult part. That kind of tells me something - it's like piercing a taut, cellophanous veil...towards a freeing up, an unleashing....to use a better analogy than those that might be used for "birthing." (All those yin/yang "nature" analogies seem to work for me..and perhaps that's why I find ideograms to be enigmatically mysterious and powerful.) As I said before, I've got a long, looooong way to go...but the approach makes logical sense to me and appeals to my mystically challenged side. Perhaps when I have as many sessions as Skye Turell or others under my belt, I will find out different and I can't blame those who have developed their own styles and know what works for them to alter how they trained. Perhaps by then it's so automatic even that one doesn't need an ideogram to get them started...who knows? Viewers have to decide for themselves ultimately what works best...for that seems part of the "knowing oneself" in all of this. For now as a student, this is what I do :-)) ...by the way I'm an ISFP....so there are a few of us sensories out here in RV. :-)) In the Spirit, Joanie Reply | Forward

#119

From: joan003...nk.net Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:05 am Subject: Re: Re: Problems with ideograms joanie003 Bill asks: <> I'm not sure if you intend your question for the whole list or if you intended it to be in PEM since you addressed it to one person...but I'll pipe in on this since it was posted to the list. :-) I think that's the idea exactly that the gestalts emerge from the ideograms...if I understand your question correctly. I'm not sure what you mean about "matching?" The gestalt doesn't "match" the ideogram, it is derived from it. At one of these conferences you may want to sit down with someone to obtain a brief demonstration and try it yourself. I found it difficult to comprehend via other people's writings until I actually did it myself. In training, Lyn has mentioned that he and others had to do 25 straight Phase I targets...all correct before they could even move onto Stage 2. A Phase I target is a target that focuses on obtaining the target gestalts...(in CRV anyway...) In the Spirit, Joanie Reply | Forward pjrv : Messages : 51-122 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/51?)
20:56:05
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#51

From: "dem607" Date: Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:24 am Subject: Problems with ideograms dem607 It was during CRV training that I first developed a big problem with ideograms. I found that I simply could not produce spontaneaus Ids, so I decided to go through the motions of producing one.(Trying real hard to "STAY IN STRUCTURE!"). I honestly remember going through the ideogram drills and thinking that if I had to do this ideogram thing then there was no way I was ever going to remote view. But I stuck with it and when it came time to do our first training targets I somehow managed to nail the first 3 consecutive targets. (actually I thought my sessions were a washout, until my intructor revealed that I was viewing the next targets that he intended to present after the current session -"target jumping"). During the years since, I have continued to go through the motions of producing Ids during sessions. While my apparent session failures have outnumbered my apparent successes, I have had enough apparent successful sessions to convince me that "going through the motions" of producing ids has not had a detrimental impact on my sessions. I think the key is that I stayed in structure. I am just now attempting to get back into a serious RV practice routine after falling off the practice wagon due to family and career problems. I am really thankful to PJ for producing this site (and putting so much effort into it). At least for me, her timing could not have been better. I am really looking forward to the practice targets. Thank you Palyne. David Reply | Forward

#59

From: "k9caninek9" Date: Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:43 pm Subject: Re: Problems with ideograms k9caninek9 I have found that spontaneous ids are easiest when I first of all look totally away from the paper and the hand doing the writing and second of, scribble that puppy as fast as I can. Just scribble like you are scribbling out some bits of incomplete writing or something like that and you have get it done before the boss comes around the corner. I do it so fast and since I am not looking, I have no idea what I will find on the paper until I turn my head back to look. It's a lot of fun doing it this way. -E --- In pjrv...dem607" I found that I simply could not produce spontaneaus Ids, > so I decided to go through the motions of producing one. Reply | Forward

#114

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:17 am Subject: Re: Re: Problems with ideograms docsavagebill Hi Eve, Do you get Idio's this way that actually match the gestalts? Best Regards, bill --- k9caninek9 wrote: > look totally away from the paper and the hand doing > the writing and > second of, scribble that puppy as fast as I can. Reply | Forward

#122

From: "k9caninek9" Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 11:11 am Subject: Re: Problems with ideograms k9caninek9 Yup, in fact that's the only way I now how to do it. Lyn always says if the ideogram is being written too slowly then you are probably not really doing it from the unconscious or you are switching to pictogram. Right now the hardest part for me is trying to match up the feeling parts of the ideogram with the actual elements in the target that they relate too. I lot of times I will be describing the ideos and be thinking that yup, I had gotten that ideo before once or twice but still don't know what it means, so the B sections have a lot of question marks. I guess the ideos are just a really slow process to work out. That's probably why people are tempted to blow through them and get them over with. -E --- In pjrv...ill Pendragon Do you get Idio's this way that actually match the > gestalts? > --- k9caninek9 > look totally away from the paper and the hand doing > > the writing and > > second of, scribble that puppy as fast as I can.

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