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Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/
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pjrv : Messages : 230-234 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/230?)
21:12:44
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#230

From: Richard Krankoski Date: Fri Jul 26, 2002 9:32 pm Subject: movement exercises Rich_crv How many people regularly use movement exercises? It seems to be taught early in the TRV tapes but only in advanced courses by others. I have always had a mental block about using them although one time it worked out very well when I "moved" to the four compass points and "described". For that session, the target was a specific room in a specific building and I was able to visit the target personally. So I had great feedback. But suppose I could not visit the target. What is the use of doing such a movement when I know my feedback will be a specific view in a photo? I can see how this may help in an operational setting. I also hesitate to do the "move 100 feet above the target" type movements. Or go 1 mile north... etc. I recently did a session where I described a manmade structure "in the distance". Now there, I could see how I might say "go to the structure"........ But if my target is an object on a table and I start wandering around...... Rich Reply | Forward

#231

From: "Palyne Gaenir" Date: Fri Jul 26, 2002 9:51 pm Subject: Re: movement exercises dennanm Hi Rich, This is a good topic for experiential discussion. I have two things that come to mind about movement (or directed) stuff -- > I recently did a session where I described a manmade structure > "in the distance". Now there, I could see how I might say "go to > the structure"........ 1. I had one session where I said something like, a manmade structure "across from me..." and a mix of certain gestalts and a concept of "jutting" (?). I was annoyed on feedback that I hadn't explored the 'across from me'. The feedback made it clear that the photographer was standing on the shore of a lake -- the hanging tree branches were in the foreview -- and then there was flat lake for a bit, and then this oriental structure, surrounded by trees in a garden, all sticking out of the water. In my notes I realized my "sense of separation" from the 'the target focus' was itself data, and I should have asked what I was separated by, or gone 'halfway to' the focus and reached down and felt it. > I also hesitate to do the "move 100 feet above the target" type > movements. Or go 1 mile north... etc. This stuff is deadly in out of protocol work where the monitor knows the target, for obvious reasons... > when I "moved" to the four compass points and "described". I had a session I was getting a little frustrated in. I could 'feel' target contact, but I wasn't really getting any translated data through, and felt confused by a sense of space, then something solid, then space, then solid -- without any clear idea of how it fit together or what was where. I drew myself a 9-square "grid" to represent the target, and for every little box, asked myself what was in the target, and described for each section things like, "only sky" or "filled with structure" or "structure at the bottom right corner, open space the rest of the square" etc. -- and to my astonishment, every box's descripion turned out to be accurate! Alas it didn't do a damned thing toward helping me get OTHER data, or to get things flowing, but I thought it was a novel form of movement exercise in a way -- an idea I got from that book "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain", for how to learn to sketch when you can't sketch worth a damn. :-) Regards, PJ Reply | Forward

#234

From: "k9caninek9" Date: Sat Jul 27, 2002 1:46 am Subject: Re: movement exercises k9caninek9 --- In pjrv...ichard Krankoski I have always had a mental block about using them although > one time it worked out very well Yeah, I am rather lazy about it and usually don't do it. But if there is a monitor and he/she says go here, there, wherever, it seems relatively easy. The monitor does all the thinking and asking and all I have to do is keep scribbling stuff down. For some reason, I find it hard to think of stuff during the session. I just think, "OK, what's next" and keep scribbling. Later when I look at the session, I figure a monitor would probably ask more in depth questions about some the stuff and would probably help to clarify some of it. -E ------------------------- Moderator's note: I often wonder 'why the heck didn't I think to ask the obvious?!' after a session. But at least, over time, if I really focus on that on feedback, I'm starting to 'remember' when I get some similar situation in a later session, to ask. (Doesn't mean it HELPS, lol. But I'm gradually getting the hang of it.) -- PJ pjrv : Messages : 236-355 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/236?)
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#236

From: Richard Krankoski Date: Sat Jul 27, 2002 9:02 pm Subject: Re: Re: movement exercises Rich_crv I have never had the luxury of a monitor. My next question...... How many people have a monitor available on a regular basis? I asked about monitor usage on the CRV group and never got an answer. I am curious how all the ex StarGate people continue to work without monitors, especially since they stress the importance of having one. k9caninek9 wrote:Yeah, I am rather lazy about it and usually don't do it. But if > there is a monitor and he/she says go here, there, wherever, it seems > relatively easy. The monitor does all the thinking and asking and > all I have to do is keep scribbling stuff down. For some reason, I > find it hard to think of stuff during the session. I just > think, "OK, what's next" and keep scribbling. Later when I look at > the session, I figure a monitor would probably ask more in depth > questions about some the stuff and would probably help to clarify > some of it. > Same here. > ------------------------- > Moderator's note: I often wonder 'why the heck didn't I think to > ask the obvious?!' after a session. But at least, over time, if > I really focus on that on feedback, I'm starting to 'remember' > when I get some similar situation in a later session, to ask. > (Doesn't mean it HELPS, lol. But I'm gradually getting the hang of > it.) -- PJ Lately, I have been telling myself before a session to remember to "move around", but I usually forget, or... when the data stops coming and I look back I begin this arguement with myself over the "what ifs" of various moves. :) I think it is truely a practice thing and will eventually get the hang of it. There are several infrequent happenings that hav ethrown me. One was a sudden ruch of feeling and emotion and data and imaging on one of Paul's homework targets. Later Paul said I should have declared a "too much break". Which leads to another can of worms, because I am not convinced that all these various "types" of breaks are necessary. Why not just "break" or "AOL break"? I doubt if this particular facet has been studied and documented. Rich Reply | Forward

#239

From: "dennanm" Date: Sat Jul 27, 2002 9:47 pm Subject: Monitors, Breaks, Target Contact dennanm --- In pjrv...ichard Krankoski curious how all the ex StarGate people continue to work > without monitors, especially since they stress the > importance of having one. Really. Well, I've never had one. Training doesn't count, it isn't double- blind. I've done training via phone and in person and even chat rooms, but in all cases it was out of protocol. My perspective on monitors is that I'd only have one if the monitor had ZERO concepts transferred from CRV. I think the passed over idea that the monitor is a babysitter is a hangup from training and should never be imposed into a regular session. But that is just opinion... > was a sudden rush of feeling and emotion and data > and imaging on one of Paul's homework targets. Later > Paul said I should have declared a "too much break". > Which leads to another can of worms, because I am not > convinced that all these various "types" of breaks are > necessary. Why not just "break" or "AOL break"? I doubt > if this particular facet has been studied and documented. Allegedly (but not necessarily according to Current Authority), CRV methods were for TRAINING - not for long-term DOing. The difference between a break, AOL break, Too-Much break, is that the process of practicing with this for awhile is supposed to train the viewer to _Recognize what is going on inside their head_ during the process. YOU need to know what is happening and 'why' you are breaking. Personally, my experience is that other than AOL problems, all the attempts CRV makes to get the viewer AWAY from strong contact for the sake of piecemeal left-brain documentation just did not help me. When I make good enough target contact to really be rushed with data, those are the best sessions. I don't want to avoid that, I want to bring it ON as often as possible and learn to work WITH that. Yes, I could work on slowing it down, and probably provide 14 pages of generic descriptives which I could then score at a 92.5% accuracy rate as a result -- little of which would be particularly useful viewing compared to what four seconds of really "hard contact" with a target would provide IMO. (Some will argue that endless general and occasionally specific descriptives can help -- yeah, right! -- if you have 6 months and extensive personnel available for analysis!) I think the FIRST GOAL of remote viewing is strong TARGET CONTACT on a psychic level. The stronger the better. The second goal is learning to communicate what you get from that contact. I think the minute the communication process starts interfering with getting or keeping the "strength" of contact, it has exceeded its place in the process. But, everybody has their own experience and opinion of course.... PJ Reply | Forward

#340

From: "a_healey56" Date: Fri Aug 2, 2002 8:04 pm Subject: Re: Monitors, Breaks, Target Contact a_healey56 > PJ wrote > I think the FIRST GOAL of remote viewing > is strong TARGET CONTACT on > a psychic level. The stronger the better. > The second goal is > learning to communicate what you get from > that contact. I think the > minute the communication process starts > interfering with getting or > keeping the "strength" of contact, it has > exceeded its place in the > process. But, everybody has their own > experience and opinion of course. Hi PJ (& all), My name is Dave. I'm new at this, and haven't had any training yet (although I am doing Pru's online course). I've read all of the websites and talked to lots of people about it, and practiced a lot the best I know how. Just like you love target

#9, I

love what you said above about strong target contact. My intuition tells me it must be so. Prior to investigating RV I learned a form of yoga meditation that puts you into what must be deep theta if it's done correctly, and all kinds of interesting things started happening when I became proficient at that. My sister told me that some of it sounded similar to remote veiwing, which I had never heard of before, and I've been working at RV ever since (about four months). One thing that has happened a few times is that I've had a clear visual of the target photo - sometimes complete and sometimes just a piece - appear before my mind. It's happened on just a small percentage of targets I've viewed, but it's happened enough that I know without a doubt that it really can happen. This seems about as strong as target contact can get. I have since had spot-on data in the form of a couple of very strong sensations from the other senses (hearing and feeling), that I suppose with regard to their respective sensory receptors were just as strong as the visuals were to me*. But since us men are said to be primarily visual, I guess I place more importance on the visuals. ;-) I didn't find out until recently that this isn't really what RV is all about, and that many people don't ever get visuals at all, and if they do that they usually can't be trusted. But I've had a taste of what's possible, and my intuition tells me that there must be some way to harness it. I know that it will be good to learn the accepted protocols, which I intend to do, but I don't think I would ever be satisfied with just that. When I started hearing about ERV on another list it sounded liked I might be an ERV type of guy. We'll see. David *As you all must have guessed, these good experiences are the execption, certainly not the rule. I've probably had ten miserable sessions for every session that had anything at all to do with th Reply | Forward

#349

From: "k9caninek9" Date: Sat Aug 3, 2002 1:36 am Subject: Re: Monitors, Breaks, Target Contact k9caninek9 Hi Dave, I don't think you should worry too much about getting visuals. It's not like you are supposed to try to block them or anything. SOme people get lots of visuals and some don't and that is fine. If you get something in a session, visual or whatever, write it all down. Then check it against the feedback. After a while, you will learn for yourself what works for you just by doing that. No viewer is going to be exactly like another viewer so a lot of it is learning about yourself. I think the main idea about the visuals is that it could be prob if you get a visual in the session and then get too attached to believing that is the target right away. It's generaly better to keep an open mind and don't get too attached to any one impression in the session. If you think you know the answer right away, then you will tend to block out info that would appear to contradict your premade decision and that blocked info may well end up being the most accurate stuff. -E --- In pjrv...a_healey56" This seems about as strong as target contact can get. I have since > had spot-on data in the form of a couple of very strong sensations > from the other senses (hearing and feeling), that I suppose with > regard to their respective sensory receptors were just as strong as > the visuals were to me*. But since us men are said to be primarily > visual, I guess I place more importance on the visuals. ;-) > I didn't find out until recently that this isn't really what > RV is all about, and that many people don't ever get visuals at > all, and if they do that they usually can't be trusted. Reply | Forward

#355

From: "dennanm" Date: Sat Aug 3, 2002 11:57 am Subject: Re: Monitors, Breaks, Target Contact dennanm Hi Dave, > One thing that has happened a few > times is that I've had a clear visual of the > target photo - sometimes > complete and sometimes just a piece - > appear before my mind. When I first was introduced to RV, I had several nights where I had these dreams, where amazingly flash-vivid images of people's faces, as if on a black background so nothing but face, _intensely_ clear, went on. I actually thought that was RV for some time and I was just dreaming it. :-) I think some people DO get wonderful visuals. From the literature and discussion, those folks may be something of a minority in the 'natural' sense -- but I also think that any way you choose to FOCUS on data, is bound to improve; I think one's personal "intent" has a lot to do with end result. In a metaphysical sense, it probably depends a great deal on the state of chakraic development of the individual. When I've been in bigtime visual mode, I often see 'electric cobalt blue' when I close my eyes, that's alleged to be the color of that chakra, and I wouldn't be surprised if this were so. Other times I 'hear' a lot of stuff outside normal reality, or about the target, which would indicate throat chakra activity or open-ness. Still other times I get none of that... I don't know... perhaps that means I am somewhat closed-down at that time. > I didn't find out until recently that this isn't > really what RV is all about, Well doing things 'spontaneously' isn't RV, but if you get the data IN a session, that does put it into RV! > and that many people don't ever get visuals at all, Amazing isn't it, to do something called remote viewing and not get visuals?! > and if they do that they usually can't be trusted. It's often the case. - but it depends on the person, obviously; on occasion there IS a person who is just very visual in terms of data! > I've had a taste of what's > possible, and my intuition tells me that > there must be some way to > harness it. You know, that's how I feel sometimes. Like, I know I DID IT; this proves it's possible; so there has got to be some kind of path, some kind of internal switch, some way to 'repeat' the behavior on command, at least with practice. Regards, PJ Reply | Forward

#242

From: "k9caninek9" Date: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:37 pm Subject: Monitors and Breaks k9caninek9 Yeah, it's a catch 22 isn't it? They say you should have a monitor, but obviously most people don't have access to one. Maybe they don't talk about it cuz they know they are giving you an unsolvable problem! Oh well, it seems decent data can still be obtained. And for me, it seemed relatively easy to adapt to having one on the very few sessions that I had one for. Those sessions were at rv conferences and the monitor was basically untrained, but it was still fun and I think it helped me get more data. But to me, the main difficulty of rv is the access and communication with the subconscious. I don't think a monitor can help too much with that aspect anyway. As for the breaks, there are some variations in training according to the teacher. I think sometimes, one can get sucked into an aspect of the target to the point when you all you get is some basic (usually negative) emotions and fail to get anything useful past that. And also, the aols and castlebuilding can start to set in at that point. You find yourself thinking, "Gee, what can suck this bad!?!" So I can see the benefit of teaching the subconscious not to go too far with it, but to back off a tad and give some more objective and specific info. As far as aols themselves, when I trained with LYn, he seemed to teach more that the aols are simply declared, but not an official 'break' in the same way as other breaks. Lyn also does not do the pencil setting down thing. As for labeling all the breaks, I assume a lot of that is for the benefit of the analyzer in order to help explain what was happening during that part of the session. The analyzer would probably want to know if you suddenly stopped the session on your own for some reason or if it was just because the doorbell rang. -E Reply | Forward

#245

From: "intuitwolf" Date: Sun Jul 28, 2002 12:53 am Subject: Re: movement exercises intuitwolf --- In pjrv...ichard Krankoski There are several infrequent happenings that have thrown me. One was a > sudden > ruch of feeling and emotion and data and imaging on one of Paul's homework > targets. Later Paul said I should have declared a "too much break". Which > leads > to another can of worms, because I am not convinced that all these various > "types" > of breaks are necessary. Why not just "break" or "AOL break"? I can only recall two instances of using the 'too much break' since I started training. Prior to any training I could only do a ten to fifteen minute session and then I'd experience some sort of 'brain freeze', I'd feel almost physically shakey and nervous. So, the structure overall worked well for me -- it slowed the initial input and gave me time to adjust to a quickening pace and flow. Like the difference between one of those OBEs that sneak up on you and rip you through space so fast you can't distinguish your surroundings until you arrive - which then jolts you back into your body; or a slow rocking out of the physical body with full awareness turned on and intention in place so you get to admire some of the scenery along the road to your destination and you are able to observe the goings on at destinations end. The concept of a 'too much' break was helpful to me. Maybe it's like knowing you've got brakes on the vehicle and you CAN stop the car if you want to, and that makes it easier to just speed along with less concern. If you are getting so much data that it's a blur (rather than anything distinguishable that could be called an AOL) and it's actually causing you to lose discernible target contact then it's helpful to declare a 'too much break' because that's what's happening - it's not an arbitrary label. You're literally being swamped with impressions coming so fast you can't process ANY of it. If you've got an AOL or an AOL gang in your face you know what it is - it has a face, a name - and it's time for an AOL break :-) And then there's the AI break which I've only called once, because I was literally in tears. These are the only three I can recall, probably because they are the only ones I've ever used. :-) Shelia Reply | Forward

#246

From: "intuitwolf" Date: Sun Jul 28, 2002 12:18 am Subject: Re: movement exercises intuitwolf --- In pjrv...ichard Krankoski I have never had the luxury of a monitor. My next question...... > How many people have a monitor available on a regular basis? I asked about > monitor usage on the CRV group and never got an answer. I am curious how > all the ex StarGate people continue to work without monitors I do know that Paul's wife Daryl monitors him. Not sure, but I think Bill and Sandy work together too. I've coached my husband into a very respectable monitor -- he's actually very good at it even though he's not a remote viewer. I have trouble finding a good time that fits both of our schedules - so, the outcome is that I still work a lot of sessions alone. For me this can sometimes be fine....but if a building is involved it's often difficult for me to simply 'remember' to go inside. I'll do a bang up job of describing the outside of the building - I'll even describe the roof area...but there was so much more inside. Then sometimes it's easy to do both and to move from outside to inside - it varies - with the moon? with LST? I should go back through my sessions and determine what the LST was and see if those times I DID remember to go inside were favorable LST time. On the other hand, if my target is an outside venue, I'm much more likely to get data from differing angles and aspects of the target. Perhaps I'm less afraid I'll bump my head on a 'ceiling' :-) Shelia Reply | Forward

#250

From: "Jason S. Shapiro" Date: Sun Jul 28, 2002 11:04 am Subject: Re: Re: movement exercises fetik3 I've found that thinking as a monitor while viewing has helped my own work. Initially, I tried to work as fast as possible, believing that this was the best way to keep the data flowing without "tainting" it with AOL. As a result, the words would pop in my head, but there was no other association (i.e. I didn't feel that I was "above" the site, I just had the word "above" pop in my head). Since I didn't have a more "deep" experience associated with the word, I really didn't know what it meant. In particular the words "above" and "below" confused me. Did this mean I was viewing the site from "above", was I looking "above", was a particular set of dimension words describing something "above" another object/structure/lifeform, etc... What I eventually did was allow myself to slow down and allow for (but not force or expect) deeper contact with the perceptions. Now, while I am working in S2 Dimensions, I write down the data until the flow stops, and then mentally tell myself "look above", and more data will flow. I then trust that the block of words following "look above" are in fact describing something that is above what I am looking at... So far, the results have been very positive, and have helped me to better identify the target. - Jason

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