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Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/
Filetype: Archive. Topic: Remote Viewing. Blocked: by topic detail.
Archive Storage: www.firedocs.com/pjrv/ and http://www.dojopsi.info/pjrv/
Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)



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pjrv : Messages : 2426-2429 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/2426?) 2006/06/30 23:55:54
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#2426

From: "pjgaenir" Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 7:49 am Subject: Information on its own Merits pjgaenir Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Well Rachel, I hadn't gotten around to it, but now yer makin' me look bad by doing what I like should have to begin with. So I will follow your good example, and put down my 'thoughts' on the Latest Infamous Essay that Prudence has posted. (Maybe we should send her a thank you card for keeping the RV field interesting.) {{ What if there was added dimension? What if there was an explanation for all of the extraneous information in a Remote Viewing session? }} An explanation... beyond the psychology, she obviously means, since the psychology or interpretation / translation area is where, currently I at least, already assign the 'wrong data' probability to. Well, I have thought, perhaps we are holographic, and on some level, produce reverse-speech meaning and gematria (a form of numerology in words) meaning and sound/shape (frequency) meaning, for all we know, the answers to our 'deepest questions' with every word we utter or write. Maybe remote viewing data or session is a Zero-Point potential -- and I am not punning about the bad ones here -- I mean maybe, like the ZPE concept, it "potentially" contains INFINITE data... and maybe whether the session provides data inquired of it relates more to the person looking at the data than anything. Perhaps how we respond to the feedback and session AFTER the session has as much effect on the session than what we do DURING it. I can 'find an answer' allegoried in my immediate reality when I have a serious question. It always works. I just tell myself the answer is around me somewhere and my mind grafts the pattern of the answer onto something around me -- a thing, a process, etc. I haven't believed that I 'caused' the person, thing, process, event, to happen, or happen the way it did, to match my required pattern, but then I never thought about this particular thing much before I admit. I always assumed my mind just looked around and grafted the info pattern onto the closest matching reality pattern. Technically, a voice could have told me, or I could have got the answer through spontaneous knowing, but I am the Allegory Queen so I guess having a physical "witness" -- as most psychic arts do except RV -- that I can "conceptually understand an allegory for" just makes it seem easier for me. I never thought about causing it. I thought I was just finding a pattern match that was there. But maybe I DID cause it, by inquiry -- or at least, contributed to it. Ironically, I wrote this post early last night, got back to it this morning, in between had an ongoing conversation with someone else about this topic ('potential' and session data being affected by who wants to find certain data in it), but I see Bill also mentioned this, when I went through msgs this morning. I think on some level we're all echoing Pru's ideas, but in our own ways. And perhaps at our own times -- if the theory holds, then we as a whole RV field participate in the creation of any attention- getting event. ;-) Ooooh. I bet that will annoy someone. Guess I've accomplished something for the morning. Better go get the kid to school! PJ Reply | Forward

#2429

From: "stanley01420" Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 9:19 am Subject: Re: Information on its own Merits stanley01420 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > --- In pjrv...ups.com, "pjgaenir" And perhaps at our own times -- if the theory holds, then we > as a whole RV field participate in the creation of any attention- > getting event. ;-) Ooooh. I bet that will annoy someone. That's the scary thought that drove me into the closet. Humans creating their own hell. I needed more dicipline and a lot more insight. trypper pjrv : Messages : 2428-2461 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/2428?) 2006/06/30 23:58:00
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#2428

From: Benton Bogle Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 8:23 am Subject: RE: Information on its own Merits waterway_21 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Whew, the ol' inbox is bulging this morning...... PJ, you commented: "and maybe whether the session provides data inquired of it relates more to the person looking at the data than anything." In all the reading I have been doing, the various books by RVers, the archives of posts from various bullitin boards, etc, I am finding that so much of RV is very personal. Its "personal" in that the data RV'd conforms to the viewers interests/skills, and "personal" in that it relates to the personal meaning of things the viewer can understand. The RV session feeds us info in our personal vocabulary of meaning. It also seems to be work better if the event of RVing is "important" or significant to the viewer. And I don't mean the "content" of the session is important, but the event of having RV'd, the interpersonal interaction of the team, and the signficance of the feedback info. I think this is why so many RVers do well at first, then success tapers off. After a while, the importance of each RV event is lessened since its becoming routine and stale. That is also why Mr. Swann's suggestion that you end on an up note and reward yourself also works, since the session is made "significant" by this. PJ also stated: " Perhaps how we respond to the feedback and session AFTER the session has as much effect on the session than what we do DURING it. " Again, the feedback seems to be very important in that the data we get as feedback needs to have personal meaning, and importance and significance to us. The feedback is part of the RV event, and the 'significance and importance" seems to reach back through time to the act of RVing the feedback info. I would love to hear about studies in which the feedback session allowed the RVer to spend some time "personalizing" the feedback material, relating the data to personal experiences and things they find important. Another interesting study would be to see if folks had more success RVing locales or events of personal significance to them. Each individual RV viewer would create a list of 10 or 20 events/locations that were important to them, such as where they got their first kiss, their first successfull art show, the birth of their child, etc, and see if such sites produce more successful RV sessions. Has this been done? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Forward

#2446

From: greenmn900... Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 1:59 pm Subject: Re: Information on its own Merits greenmn900... Send Email Send Email Hi PJ, You wrote: "And perhaps at our own times -- if the theory holds, then we as a whole RV field participate in the creation of any attention- getting event. ;-) Ooooh. I bet that will annoy someone." Yeah Palyne, you've annoyed ME! LOL!! Seriously, maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning, and I don't want to copy your whole post (although it's a better explanation of these concepts than I could ever articulate myself). I almost need to copy the whole thing to show what I'm responding to here. This idea that whoever looks at your session results effects your mind and its' functioning backwards in time to a significant degree, and that this is a reasonable explanation for incorrect RV-derived data, (because that person was looking for something other than you, the RVer, were looking for) is ridiculous to me. It can only happen if you allow it. Maybe I'm too much of a literalist but I see psychic awareness as not being much different than normal awareness. No one else can control what I see, hear, or smell, through regular perceptive processes merely by their expectations. Why should it be any different with psychic perceptions? The problem rests on a fulcrum of individuality, which I tend to think anyone involved in RV posesses to an extraordinary degree. I think this whole conversation, this whole issue, arises from people having a hard time confronting the fact that mistakes made in psi are a lot like the simple mistakes we all make in normal perception every day. It's a problem of focus as much as a problem of psychology. I don't know if anyone on this list is a hunter or wildlife photographer, but I think hunting and trying to describe an RV target are very analagous. Let's say you're out deer-hunting. You're in the woods. You're sitting up in a tree-stand, 20 feet off the ground, where you've been since about an hour before sunrise. It was pitch black when you walked out here and climbed up into this tree. Now the sun is slowly rising and areas of light and shadow begin to form. You're staring at a small group of trees where you think you just heard a noise. The lights and shadows interplay and create shapes and forms, hell, they're even moving! Is that a deer? Or is it a branch with a grouping of leaves that only LOOK like a deer, moving in the breeze? Is it another animal? Is it the cow you heard mooing somewhere in the distance about a half-hour ago? The squirrels are awake now and are skittering about in the leaves, somewhere in the general direction of where you keep seeing this deer-like shape. Is it the sound of the deer taking slow, single steps in the leaves as he moves along in the dawn light, feeding on acorns? Or not? It doesn't *feel* like a deer. It's too dark still to tell for sure. So you wait. The sun finally rises and you realize it was only a damned bush all along!!! You glance over your shoulder and there's a 12-point buck, 50 yards away, standing broadside to you, big as life! His antlers are glinting in the morning sun and the wind ruffles his newly-grown winter coat. You have absolutely no doubts. Boom!! There's a trophy for the wall and meat for the winter. Now if you take the above scenario and repeat it with every single attempt you make at psi-perception, you have the essence of Remote Viewing, imo. Now, that's a rough analogy, I know. But the issues involving perception are all the same. They involve patience, clarity, interconnectedness, sureness, concentration, individuality, and single-mindedness of purpose. No one else's opinion of what you have just done can effect the outcome unless you allow it. You won't shoot at shadows unless you allow someone else to convince you that those shadows are actually your target. That's what RV is like - for me, anyway. Best Regards, Don Reply | Forward

#2457

From: "Eva" Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 9:08 pm Subject: Re: Information on its own Merits k9caninek9 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 > --- In pjrv...ups.com, greenmn900...te: > This idea that whoever looks at your > session results effects your mind and > its' functioning backwards in time to > a significant degree, and that this is > a reasonable explanation for incorrect > RV-derived data, (because that person > was looking for something other than you, > the RVer, were looking for) is > ridiculous to me. It can only happen > if you allow it. Just out of curiosity, how do you know that? Have you studied it? (sorry if that whine is getting old but it's just so so fun!) > Maybe I'm too much of a literalist but I > see psychic awareness as not being > much different than normal awareness. I don't know. It doesn't seem to follow the rules of normal awareness if you ask me. > No one else can control what I see, > hear, or smell, through regular perceptive > processes merely by their > expectations. Your parents did it to you as you grew up. The advertisers do it to you every day. Your friends also play a role. A good hypnotist can surely effect you. And when you do a session, you basically blindly give up your free will to a tasker. You will be viewing that target even if later on when you find out the feedback you might wish you hadn't. > Why should it be any different with psychic perceptions? It's not. > I think this whole conversation, this whole > issue, arises from people having > a hard time confronting the fact that mistakes > made in psi are a lot like the > simple mistakes we all make in normal perception > every day. It's a problem > of focus as much as a problem of psychology. That could be, but I don't think we have enough evidence to know for sure. Also, that could be only part of the story. I don't know if it is useful to delegate all contrary ideas as mere attempts to make excuses for one's viewing probs. I DO think it's a good idea to keep in mind that they MAY be excuses. But I don't think we know yet all the things that can screw up or aid in the quality of a session. Most likely there are many factors and I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that not all of the factors are currently know by us. It might be a bit early to feel we know it all just yet, LOL! > Now if you take the above scenario and repeat > it with every single attempt > you make at psi-perception, you have the > essence of Remote Viewing, imo. I think you have an experience of remote viewing. It doesn't tell us a damn thing about how the whole thing actually works. In real life, they have infrared goggles, LOL! > Now, that's a rough analogy, I know. But the > issues involving perception are > all the same. They involve patience, clarity, > interconnectedness, sureness, > concentration, individuality, and single-mindedness > of purpose. No one > else's opinion of what you have just done can > effect the outcome unless you > allow it. I'm just not sure a deer hunting analogy will convince me that an rv theory is possible or not possible, LOL! -E Reply | Forward

#2461

From: Weatherly-Hawaii... Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 11:48 pm Subject: Re: Information on its own Merits maliolana Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 Aloha PJ, }And perhaps at our own times -- if the theory holds, then we as a whole RV field participate in the creation of any attention- getting event. ;-) Ooooh. I bet that will annoy someone.{ Well you know I agree with this as well...I have noticed too many times...the news practically outing themselves by saying the exact words of someone on one of our groups...after the fact...This has happened way too many times...I expect it now days... One...not to mention many ones ...joined as one...have got to have some power... the prayer circles around the world...praying for peace ...must be having some effect... If we can feel it ...one on one...then imagine many more than one... focused...Hell we might could even build a pyramid...... Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna pjrv : Messages : 2513-2549 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/2513?) 2006/07/01 00:03:21
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#2513

From: greenmn900... Date: Sat Mar 8, 2003 3:02 pm Subject: Re: Re: Information on its own Merits greenmn900... Send Email Send Email E, > You wrote: > "I'm just not sure a deer hunting analogy will convince me > that an rv theory is possible or not possible, LOL!" I wasn't trying to convince you of anything. I was giving an anology of how psi perception is similiar to physical perception in the that both are susceptible to simple, human mistakes. It's built into the perceptive capacity. I was only giving my opinion. > You wrote: > "Just out of curiosity, how do you know that? Have you studied it? > (sorry if that whine is getting old but it's just so so fun!) No, once again, I was only giving my own opinion as it exists right now. Maybe you didn't notice I wrote the words "to me". And you're right, that whine *is* getting old, very old. LOL!! > You wrote: > "Your parents did it to you as you grew up. The advertisers do it to > you every day. Your friends also play a role. A good hypnotist can > surely effect you. And when you do a session, you basically blindly > give up your free will to a tasker. You will be viewing that target > even if later on when you find out the feedback you might wish you > hadn't." I was writing that each individual controls where they direct their focus, what they see, hear, etc. - basically what they pay attention to and that others don't direct those things by their later expectations. All of your examples above still involve free will. They don't apply. > You wrote: > " I don't know if > it is useful to delegate all contrary ideas as mere attempts to make > excuses for one's viewing probs. I DO think it's a good idea to keep > in mind that they MAY be excuses. But I don't think we know yet all > the things that can screw up or aid in the quality of a session. > Most likely there are many factors and I'm willing to bet dollars to > donuts that not all of the factors are currently know by us. It > might be a bit early to feel we know it all just yet, LOL!" Uh, what are you responding to here, E? I didn't say people were making excuses. I said they have trouble understanding that mistakes in psi perecption are like mistakes in physical perception. Who said that we feel that we know it all? I guess I'll repeat it again - I was only giving my current opinion, my opinion of the similarities in psi and physical perception. > You wrote: > "I think you have an experience of remote viewing. It doesn't tell us > a damn thing about how the whole thing actually works. In real life, > they have infrared goggles, LOL!" I said the experience was similar to the essence of RV. I wasn't trying to tell you "a damn thing about how the whole thing actually works". Btw, in real life, very few people hunt with infrared goggles - at least that I've ever met and AGAIN - in my opinion. lol. Best Regards, Don ------------------------- Moderator's note: You're sounding ouchy Don, lol. The confusion is understandable, E was responding generally to others, including me, that asked if questions/assumptions about retasking/RI/TO were being used as an excuse for why a session wasn't accurate enough. You know, list conversations, generally you're talking to one person but often you're talking "generally", too. -- PJ Reply | Forward

#2534

From: "Eva" Date: Sun Mar 9, 2003 2:43 am Subject: Re: Information on its own Merits k9caninek9 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360 Invite to Yahoo! 360 --- In pjrv...ups.com, greenmn900...te: I didn't say people were making > excuses. I said they have trouble understanding that mistakes in psi > perecption are like mistakes in physical perception. But what if they aren't? Or what if not all of them are? Who said that we feel > that we know it all? I guess I'll repeat it again - I was only giving my > current opinion, my opinion of the similarities in psi and physical > perception. Relax dude, I was only giving mine too. Btw, in > real life, very few people hunt with infrared goggles - at least that I've > ever met and AGAIN - in my opinion. lol. Don't worry, I didn't think they did much of that. I would assume that most people want to keep a certain even type playing field. However, in RV if there was an equivalent of infrared goggles, I wouldn't hesitate. > > Best Regards, > Don > > ------------------------- > Moderator's note: You're sounding ouchy Don, lol. I have to agree. People usually don't respond to me with that much anger. Perhaps there is an incompatibility in our communications styles. -E Reply | Forward

#2546

From: greenmn900... Date: Sun Mar 9, 2003 8:31 am Subject: Re: Re: Information on its own Merits greenmn900... Send Email Send Email E, > You wrote: > "People usually don't respond to me with that much > anger. Perhaps there is an incompatibility in our communications > styles." It wasn't anger, Eva, it's exasperation. Someone gives their opinion and then you respond with something like "How do you know? Have you studied it? What if you're wrong? What if it's not like that at all? Well, that doesn't convince me." And I was only giving an analogy of how I think psi perception is similiar in some ways to physical perception! Perhaps you don't realize how often you do that. Perhaps it *is* just a difference in communication styles. I don't know. But I do know that it's starting to cause me to hesitate to offer an opinion on anything. Because a temporarily-held opinion isn't worth that much effort to defend. > You wrote: > "But what if they aren't? Or what if not all of them are?" See what I mean? LOL!! I'm not angry, Eva. I'm just tired of offering up a possibility and then having to defend it to your satisfaction. Best Regards, Don Reply | Forward

#2549

From: greenmn900... Date: Sun Mar 9, 2003 7:44 am Subject: Re: Re: Information on its own Merits greenmn900... Send Email Send Email PJ, > You wrote: > "Moderator's note: You're sounding ouchy Don, lol. The confusion is > understandable, E was responding generally to others, including me, that > asked if questions/assumptions about retasking/RI/TO were being used as an > excuse for why a session wasn't accurate enough. You know, list > conversations, generally you're talking to one person but often you're > talking "generally", too." Since she had copied a portion of my post and then wrote what she did directly underneath it, it seemed to me that she was responding to me. That's why I asked her what she was responding to. I *was* confused, as I didn't say people were using it as an excuse for wrong information. Don

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