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pjrv : Messages : 1673-1673 of 4038 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/1673?? ) ?
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#1673

Date: Sun Dec 8, ?00? 10:05 am Subject: Future Memory dennanm Howdy Glyn, I'm posting this on the list in case others have comments, since we began the conversation here eons ago. > his dream of the future was not of the island, > not of the event itself......but of the newspaper > article he first saw.....not only that either... > he had dreamed of his *memory* of reading the > article; which included his mistake of misreading > the number as 4,000! He had accessed his 'future > memory'. I think it is likely that his dream included *many* elements of information. E.g., for him to have accessed his future memory, which is utterly probable and in fact the most likely explanation, that still doesn't give the detail of the volcano and Island he perceived right off the bat. You might say he 'dreamed' that based on the feedback, but that could as easily apply to the wrong number as to the island part! I suspect psi data is *dominantly* future memory -- or "precognition with a heavy lean toward self as primary source" -- but there might be concurrent things going on, on top of that; particularly when you consider the myriad of psi info we never get any feedback on that is allegedly going on currently to us 'somewhere' but who the heck knows where. I used to have a lot of precog dreams but most were wrong, lol. BUT they were wrong in the way like, how psychics often mix right and left; they often contained obvious precog elements yet were totally flipped or reversed. Like one time I dreamed about this kinda trashy female rock star I wasn't remotely interested in. I wrote in my journal that she "looked at me like I ought to know" and then shot herself in the head. OK, weird. But a month later her extremely famous husband, Curt Cobain, allegedly shot himself in the head. (How he managed to do this with the very long gun utilized is a subject of some controversy - but I haven't got a clue, and I assume it truly was suicide.? ) Another time, in mid '95 I think it was, I had a dream that I was in a room with a TV and another person, and I heard myself say, "DOLE is president?!" and the other person said, "Yeah, he won." The election was on TV. When I woke up, the only thing of note to me was that as I didn't watch or hear the news, I had no idea who the guy even WAS. It turned out he had not even announced he would run yet. Later he left his gov't position to campaign for president. As I was so oblivious to politics I felt this must be so. Yet he didn't win. I mentioned these before on this list -- In both cases I clearly was picking up on something that came to be in the news, so very 'psychic broadband' as I call it - lots of people 'aware' of it. Yet my facts were totally reversed from what I heard later. I assume that for some unknown reason I just reversed things on memory. I've probably had three dozen dreams like that at least, I just haven't bothered to write them down. The one thing it did do for me is make me a lot less worried when I seem to have a dream of something frightening in the near future. I know how my memory tends to torque such things. > I think results depend on how far you go into > your own future to access your own memory of the > event/feedback/outcome... and at what stage in > the future you retrieve the memories. (eg. If > Dunne had gone forward 15 years he may have got > the right number :-? )? ). Hmmmmn. OK now this is a point of consideration, I don't know. I don't know that we retrieve our memory at a given stage of the future. In order to believe that, I would have to believe that we do NOT have direct access to our future EXCEPT at some given point we 'went to' for information, which doesn't really make sense to my mind, as it infers a sort of linear access that is pretty much as limited as the pseudo-electronic 'signal line' theory you are trying to discard and work around. Either time is real or its not; either we have access to it or we don't; I have a hard time conceptualizing in my brain the logic of us only going to one point in time for ourselves; how is that much different than going to the single point of a target as a physical 'place' I wonder; both infer a sort of linearity or exclusionary awareness. I would suspect we have full and equal access to all the memory at all points of the future, and that it is mostly a matter of what is 'strongest' as our feedback, and perhaps for some reason that is often (not always but often? ) what is most immediate or closest to the point of perception - "if all things are equal" -- by that I mean, emotional strength probably matters more than time, but who knows.... for the most part the most immediate feedback is likely strong. Not because that future is closer if there is no linear time, but maybe we tend to perceive such energy more strongly -- one metaphysical source suggests that all is energy and our perception of things being past/present/future is actually based on the intensity of the energy we perceive, e.g. the strongest energy is the 'now' and as it fades it seems farther in the past, etc. I do know that feedback is often critical to psi results, but that sometimes I've done RV sessions I assumed totally missed the target and moved on, and then much later realized they were actually pretty good sessions and I was just so quick to be overcritical of myself that I didn't hardly pay attention to the feedback vs. session other than the first surface glance. Obviously my primary feedback didn't influence the session much, but then again, my point is I barely paid attention to the feedback, so my review a couple months later with a great deal more attention may have had more impact on the session just due to the quality/quantity of my attention. > This may be particularly important in ARV if > going after outcomes of events...eg football > results.....you must make sure you don't just > get the score at half-time:-? ).. LOL. I think... well, I don't have an opinion but I have a theory, that we exist in so many times/places/identity at the same times, including a lot of 'parallels' to what we call reality -- and possibly even a nearly infinite set of reality that is 'here' but with variants that we constantly move in and out of (the real way of saying that isn't that there are lots of realities but that every probability is a potential and every human being puts those together like choices made in a video game as I wrote many years ago; that consensus reality doesn't exist, only a consensus that we will only observe the reality of others who mostly share what we consider real? ), it becomes difficult to assume there is only one answer, one reality, one option, one future for that matter. McMoneagle seems to work very hard on a rather unique belief system that deliberately 'closes the loop' between him and the target, where every target is the ONLY target worked, the only POSSIBLE target, etc. -- that every thing which happens, although *up until it happens there is free will*, still, WHEN it happens, is *destined to have happened*, that is a bit contradictory on the surface but I remember author Jane Roberts talking about that as well. As if he is so aware of the alternatives that he deliberately designed a psychological structure to *pointedly exclude* all that. Like in order to do so well at targets not yet chosen or that haven't happened it's partly because he deliberately believes there IS only ONE choice and that one choice is whatever happens. There aren't any other options. It seemed like there were, but in reality, there weren't, the option which happened was utterly destined to happen. And in a strange way this is likely so but it requires going back into the discussion of the creation of personal reality which is a little outside the future memory subject. I've also noticed how specifically he reinforces with himself constantly that feedback is merely what is 'assumed' at that given 'moment' in time - never taking it too literally. As if he's had so much experience with feedback being wrong, or changing, and knows that 'believing' it can torque his session to match the feedback rather than the target. (Or for all we know, the feedback if believed can cause us to perceive the literal/real probability where {X} WAS the case; the session wasn't wrong or invented, we merely accessed the wrong probability, if that makes sense.? ) Somewhat off this topic but related to the above, McMoneagle is the one who has always said that a viewer's job is to describe what is most important or relevant: of course, it takes being psychic to know that, but we assume psi is the case or why are we here. ;-? ) Tasking and feedback of course have their importance and benefits as well as dangers, but that in the end, the viewer is self-tasking to some degree, at least in this regard; not necessarily to replace tasking but to supplement or emphasize it. > I first I thought that this must mean that > we only view the feedback (or rather our > memory of seeing the feedback, and everything > attached to the original feedback of a target; > ie webpages, discussions etc...it is all part > of the cumulative memory? ), but people have > reported bilocation and experiences of *being* > at the site, so how does that fit in? Well, > anyone who has had a lucid dream will attest > to how wonderful the brain is at putting > together 'universes' of it's own creation and > immersing you in them. It could also do this > with a memory, and if the memory is based on > fact then the `immersion' would appear real. This could be so. I think part of me resists it, though; wants to believe that when I experience something clearly or even just possibly related to the site, that I really am tuning into the site, the people there at any given time (but perhaps mostly strongly around the time of feedback? ), etc. But that could be an ego thing, the wanting to believe; it is not impossible that we in fact do create our "sense of reality" at targets in a dream-like fashion. But first I have to say, I am not necessarily of the opinion that lucid dreams are merely the paintings of the mind. I believe that there are points of perception in which reality is simply more easily 'flowing' than it is here, and they are a valid existence at that point of perception which we choose to remember on awakening. THIS life may well be a dream that is simply not lucid for any but a few buddha types. It's possible that we create our "sense of reality" in LIFE in a dream-like fashion too. Which would mean that it really makes no difference at all whether that is the case; that this is simply how we as a species interpret and experience energy... in other words, it would not matter in that case whether we 'went to' the target or 'created the target around us' since technically, whether physically or psychically, both would be the same thing! Years ago I had a rather interesting experience. I was driving down the highway between Camarillo and Ventura CA and there were hills (small mountains? ) off to the side and it was a pleasant enough drive for that space. And suddenly I became aware of something that sounds a little bizarre: I became aware that I WAS aware of 'all'. That nothing was moving... my car was not really in 'motion'. That I was deliberately choosing to narrow my perception down first to the wide-view environment; and the nearby environ; and also to the immediate in-my-car environment; that technically, I and my car were as much everywhere as anywhere, both in space and in time, and I was choosing to "experience" myself in my car and my car moving, because it was FUN. You know like with a reel of film, technically, the whole film already exists, and everything is still frames. But that is no fun! It almost seems like it is the nature of CHANGE that humanity most experiments with. Well it felt a bit like that; like I was truly aware of everything at once, we all are, but for the pleasure of it, we choose to 'narrow our focus' in to one frame at a time, and then run our attention through the frames fast enough to give a 'sense of motion' NOT ONLY TO SPACE, such as my belief that I in my car was driving down the highway, BUT TO TIME, because I realized at that moment, there IS NO space without time, or time without space. This is difficult to explain and gets into subjects beyond future memory so I won't go on, but that was what I got from the experience. But my very clear sense was that both space and time were sort of like one utterly unspace/untime thing and we were simply choosing to perceive ourselves "moving through" both because that is the fun of it. Later that day I thought of this film I had seen that shone bright lights into gems, a close up camera thing. And I had been watching it and thinking to myself, the odd thing is, it seems sometimes as if there are worlds inside those gems. But since there is no motion, how could anything actually be anything but inanimate/still- consciousness? I realized that we MIGHT really be in a gem, who knows. Now I have a better visual, that movie "MIB", where the galaxies were in marbles. :-? ) Even here, nothing is actually in motion. We move our *perception* -- nothing else 'moves'. Which sort of brings me back into my theory of the 'spectrum' of our consciousness and how we simultaneously perceive all, but remember one, and "attention" is the actual moving point. I guess that was really what it boiled down to for that experience as well. > FM explains so much IMO.... for example why > things are so vague, unclear, distorted... Why does it explain that, in your perception? > that there appears to be overlay, associations, AOL... Why does it explain that, in your perception? > what real memories are uncluttered? Especially > over time, they pick up all sorts of baggage, > and even become totally distorted to the point > of being false... True - and most people have no idea the extent of this; keeping a journal one rereads years back can make some of this more clear. Memory is fickle to the point of being a creative invention all its own. Either that, or reality is so changeable even backward in time that the past is nearly irrelevant compared to what we believe about the past; or even, non-existent except as perceived from the now. > Ah but who's to say we can't access someone > else's future memories? Does Dunne's theory > allow for that? I can't remember... I think in the way that we perceive being in one space and moving through many spaces, and one time point and moving through many times, that we also perceive being in one identity and moving through many lives. And maybe even every'thing'. In short, it's all us. We are aware, but the degree to which we allow ourselves to accept that, remember it, communicate it, is another story, I suppose.... and surely that is where all the questions related to RV come in... Regards, PJ pjrv : Messages : 168?-1736 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/168??? ) ?
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#168?

Date: Mon Dec 9, ?00? 9:47 am Subject: Re: Future Memory jsentient Hi Paylne, > But that could be an ego thing, > the wanting to believe; it is not > impossible that we in fact do > create our "sense of reality" at > targets in a dream-like fashion. Sorry, I've been quiet on the list. I had today off, a rare event -- and decided to see how Oasis is doing. I am sure I am breaking in mid stream on this thread but something you said reminded me of a line I just heard while passing thru my living room. The TV was on and the Movie "Santa" was on, (about half way thru near as I could figure? ). I think that is the title, not sure,,,,it stars Tim Allen. IMO it sucks, what little I saw of it. Anyway, at one point (during the few minutes I was in the room? ) Tim is reluctantly discussing his new role to become Santa with an elf. He finds himself in toyland at the North Pole and says " I see it, but I don't believe it". The elf replies "You are missing the point, seeing isn't believing,,,believing is seeing". Really, I think it's bigger than that, but that line kind of stuck out for me. Subjectivity is troublesome. Don't you think :? ) J

#1683

Date: Mon Dec 9, ?00? 7:37 pm Subject: Re: Future Memory dennanm Hey, it's Jay, good to see you buddy, long time. > The elf replies "You are missing the point, seeing isn't > believing,,,believing is seeing". > Really, I think it's bigger than that, but that line > kind of stuck out for me. Subjectivity is troublesome. I'm finding even objectivity troublesome today, LOL. On the thread title, ya know, if 'future memory' were the dominant responsible thing for psi data, it might change how we perceive or interpret the psi experience itself. As I went to reply to this email, yahoo gave me the ever-present big graphic advertising header. It was size x? for a bit, with a man in a spacesuit in space and these white + signs flying about in space. I couldn't help but notice that this so reminded me of my session on the guy in space and data that repeated a couple of times about these little things and little energy things -- not long after feedback I'd read an article that specifically said something like, space is filled with a bunch of tiny energy particles flying about -- so I figured that's where I got the data, as it's certainly not visible in feedback. I wonder how long it will be before I quit noticing things related to a session experience -- and how long my 'noticing' might potentially affect the entire experience back in time. Maybe today is really a 'living memory' of how we feel about yesterday. Not just the yesterday we consider yesterday, but the yesterday which might actually be today, if perception were even a moment 'offset' energetically. Maybe happenings are pure energy and only memory is 'experiential', lol. I am feeling too weirded out today to be communicating I think... PJ

#1697

Date: Thu Dec 1?, ?00? ?:16 am Subject: Re: Future Memory k9caninek9 > PJ wrote > I wonder how long it will be before I quit noticing things > related to a session experience -- and how long my 'noticing' might > potentially affect the entire experience back in time. I remember in one session, I got a strong aol of the little birds that dance at the beginning of the Partridge family TV series. I also aoled on that song that goes with the series. That show is so old and I hadn't thought about it in ages. I was so curious to see what it would have to do with the target. But when I got feedback, the target was a hamburger on a plate! I was wondering how on Earth I got those birds and that song. Well a few days later, I was watching tv and there was a fast food commercial that was going for the retro theme. On the screen was a big hamburger and underneath danced the telltale birds in question with the song blaring in the background. It was hilarious! -E

#1719

Date: Thu Dec 1?, ?00? 3:40 am Subject: Re: Future Memory dennanm That IS hilarious. But exasperating, too! How the hell is one supposed to make sense of associations or symbology in session when they're caused by experiences that haven't even happened yet?! That has the same twisted logic as punishing people for crimes they haven't yet committed -- but will. ;-? ) PJ > "Eva wrote: > I remember in one session, I got a strong aol of the little birds > that dance at the beginning of the Partridge family TV series. I > also aoled on that song that goes with the series. [snip] > But when I got feedback, > the target was a hamburger on a plate! > I was wondering how on Earth > I got those birds and that song. > Well a few days later, I was > watching tv and there was a fast food > commercial that was going for > the retro theme. On the screen was a big > hamburger and underneath > danced the telltale birds in question with > the song blaring in the > background. It was hilarious!

#1736

Date: Thu Dec 1?, ?00? 11:15 am Subject: Re: Future Memory k9caninek9 > PJ wrote: > That IS hilarious. But exasperating, too! How the hell is one > supposed to make sense of associations or symbology in session when > they're caused by experiences that haven't even happened yet?! The thing is, did my mind only get that because I saw it later? After all, the commercial was already made and running when I was doing the session. Heck I probably did already see the commercial before that and hadn't even thought about it. The conscious mind may simply have failed to make the connection earlier. It's hard to say. Either way, it hasn't happened much so it's not that big of a deal. ON a more abstract level, I still think the past and future are really just illusions anyway, if 'illusion' is even the right word. Maybe it's more like it looks a certain way to us because we don't have conscious access to a whole bunch of other knowledge that would put it in perspective. If that were true, then speaking of future memory would be speaking of an illusion. There would be no diff labels of when the info came from. I think of the universe as one big super complex 'vibration' that continually reshapes itself until it finally finds a stable form. I think all the traveling around through time and space and changing of past and future is just an effort to tune the wave form into a final workable sequence. I don't know if that makes any sense... -E pjrv : Messages : 1739-1745 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/1739?? ) ?
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#1739

Date: Thu Dec 1?, ?00? 11:56 am Subject: Re: Re: Future Memory a_healey56 > I remember in one session, I got a strong aol of the little birds > that dance at the beginning of the Partridge family TV series. I > also aoled on that song that goes with the series. Thanks a lot E! Now that stupid song and the "Caution: Nervous Mother Driving" sign are stuck in my head. I just hope they don't haunt me long enough that I need to enlist Nita Hickock's services to get them out. ;-? ) Dave [We have specialists on staff. LOL! - PJ]

#1745

Date: Fri Dec 13, ?00? 1:?8 am Subject: Re: Re: Future Memory rfjuice?000 Hi all, That's so true, one of the things that led me to rv , was when I was simply meditating and saw a street sign with the name of a road I never heard of. I asked friends if they knew this street and no one did. It turned out a week later my daughter was invited to party at a new friends house in the next town, and that was the name of her road. Then I agonized over, if that was some kind of forewarning. So after a big lecture to my daughter (she thought I was nuts? ) it turned out fine. Linda > PJ wrote: > That IS hilarious. But exasperating, too! > How the hell is one supposed to make sense of > associations or symbology in session when > they're caused by experiences that haven't > even happened yet?!

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