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Source Location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/
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Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.? )



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pjrv : Messages : 705-705 of 4038 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/705?? ) ?
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#705

From: aeonblueau8008... Date: Thu Oct 3, ?00? 6:04 pm Subject: Re: Re: Fix for nodding off in ERV terri8008 What I do is just focus or re focus on colors(when i'm slipping? )simple enough, tends to attract the right brain, intuitive, as opposed to analytical, and doesn't affect the session, doesn't detract. As far as theta/whatever and all that.. I don't worry about the state, as when you practice enough I think you'll find kinda naturally you get pulled to what ever level/s or state the target requires, which bounce all over or just seems to go with the territory.. All the best ~~Terri pjrv : Messages : 696-771 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/696?? ) ?
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#696

From: "scottrver" Date: Thu Oct 3, ?00? 10:?5 am Subject: Fix for nodding off in ERV scottrver Hi, For those who are interested, I've found recently that I don't have a problem with nodding off during my ERV sessions after incorporating a visualization exercise right after I do my progressive relaxation. It also seems as though the data comes more quickly in the session. My number of sessions with this is still small(3? ), but the results are very encouraging. I'm actually doing two visualization exercises along the lines of what I read about in Anna Wise's "The High Performance Mind". The first one is to try to increase alpha waves and is visualizing in great detail a comfortable place for me. This includes other senses such as trying to feel the grass between my toes. The second visualization involves me going up and down, in and through things like hallways, stairs, tunnels, etc. This is supposed to increase theta waves. I then start my normal breath awareness meditation to lower my beta waves and continue on to collect session data. Scott

#700

Date: Thu Oct 3, ?00? 8:04 pm Subject: Re: Fix for nodding off in ERV dennanm Hi Scott, > The first one is to try to increase alpha waves and is > visualizing in great detail a comfortable place for me. This > includes other senses such as trying to feel the grass between my > toes. How does that relate to increasing alpha waves, or was that a separate comment? > The second visualization involves me going up and down, in and > through things like hallways, stairs, tunnels, etc. This is > supposed to increase theta waves. My dreams have been filled with that throughout my life - 'changing levels' essentially. Funny I never thought of it relating to theta before. Glad it's working for you. I'll have to try some of that. PJ

#70?

From: "scottrver" Date: Thu Oct 3, ?00? 8:30 pm Subject: Re: Fix for nodding off in ERV scottrver Hi PJ, > > The first one is to try to increase alpha waves and is > > visualizing in great detail a comfortable place for me. This > > includes other senses such as trying to feel the grass between my > > toes. > > How does that relate to increasing alpha waves, or was that a separate > comment? In her book she discusses different visualizations / meditation practices that effect different brainwave patterns. For increasing alpha she says it helps to involve as many of the senses as possible - not just visual. Her assistant recommended that I try to increase my alpha to reduce the nodding off. I even did a session after the kids went to bed last night - I definitely recommend giving it a try. I did the theta visualization just to give the visualization process a fair try. I can't be certain, but I do think I entered my ERV trance more quickly and the data certainly flowed well - a solid hit too. I'll try it again tonight. Scott

#707

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Fri Oct 4, ?00? 1?:58 pm Subject: Re: Re: RV within lucid dreams Joes experience docsavagebill Joe McMoneagle discusses that he Lucid dreams (LD? ) at will and that he did some of his best RVing while in the LD state at SRI (~ 1985? ) in a totally blind protocol. He mentions that the more realisitc the dreamscape becomes the better the RV score. Now I found this very interesting, and much different than waking RV where clear images are usually AOL. He does mention that doing alot of RV work within the LD caused some side effects with disturbing false awakenings. Bill

#710

From: "scottrver" Date: Fri Oct 4, ?00? 8:34 pm Subject: Re: RV within lucid dreams Joes experience scottrver Hi Bill, In ERV, a clear image does not necessarily mean it's an AOL and it's probably viewer dependent. I've had email correspondence with JM where I asked him about ultra quick photograph type visuals and extended movie type "you are there" visuals. He said that the quick picture type visuals are usually very close to the actual target whereas movie type visuals are usually more "like" the target. That has been my experience too. Almost all of my RV impressions are very clear visuals of those types. Scott --- In pjrv...l Pendragon found this very interesting, and much different than > waking RV where clear images are usually AOL.

#7?0

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sat Oct 5, ?00? 3:41 pm Subject: Re: Re: RV within lucid dreams Joes experience docsavagebill Hi Scott, Well the LD experiences were great. I just wish I knew how to have regular LD's. BTW.. Joe mentiones he stopped trying to RV in LD mode because of a very freaky false awakening situation. He was sure he awoke got up walked accross the solid floor feeling it with his feet and went to the bathroom..and then his fingers went thru the switch.. .. Got back in bed awoke again with people shaking him awake, and talked to people who laughed at his experience and then looked at Stephan LeBarge attaching electrodes to a bears head (wrong!? ).. now freaking out he went back to sleep and wnet thru FIVE MORE very realistic FALSE AWAKENINGS ! Before he actually really awoke.starting to believe he would never get out...and he wasn't sure the final one was a real awakening for weeks..still is not completely sure as of writing the book...:-? ) Best Regards, Bill

#7?4

From: "scottrver" Date: Sat Oct 5, ?00? 7:38 pm Subject: Re: RV within lucid dreams Joes experience scottrver Hi Bill, You can learn to have LDs pretty much at will, but it really takes a lot of focus over time. About 10 years ago I was working on it a lot and was having at least ?-3 a week. LaBerge's books tell how and his website has more recent info. The false awakenings aren't that uncommon - I used to always see if I could jump into the air and fly/hover to determine if I was dreaming or not. It's very entertaining and if you've got the time and emotional energy to put into it, very worthwhile. I've never tried RVing during one. Scott

#7?3

From: keb Date: Sat Oct 5, ?00? 9:?? pm Subject: Re: Re: RV within lucid dreams Joes experience mesundo Hi Bill, It sounds like Joe was experiencing something like the different gates of dreaming that Castaneda wrote about in The Art of Dreaming. If you wish, you can check out http://www.dog.net.uk/claude/induction.html for information on controlled induction of hallucinations. It gives techniques for voluntarily entering into a state of conscious dreaming......Ken > Bill Pendragon wrote: > Well the LD experiences were great. I just wish I knew > how to have regular LD's.

#7?7

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sat Oct 5, ?00? 11:45 pm Subject: Re: Re: RV within lucid dreams Joes experience docsavagebill Thanks Ken, A very interesting essay on a technique for lucidity I've never hear of. I willtry that ( examining after images in the dark and stabalizing them and noting the changes. ? ) I also think dream yogis in India thought false awakenings were teaching aid to learning that the world is self created illusion. In fact Stephan Lebarge as one of the LD characters told Joe just that. BTW Keb..you arn't Ken Bell by any chance are you? Best Regards, Bill

#7?8

From: "Glyn" Date: Sun Oct 6, ?00? 5:45 am Subject: Re: Re: RV within lucid dreams Joes experience gebega Thanks Ken, the whole of that site makes for very interesting and informative reading. I've just finished looking at an article about (from the author's view of course? ) how he thinks free will is an illusion brought about by religious teaching, and that consciousness is only a result of activity in brain memory areas (biochemical? ) and has absolutely nothing to do with either religion or quantum-physics; just the biology of our central nervous system . OK, we may only be organic machines.. but to see it spelled out in words like that is a bit depressing.....;-? ) His writings/experimentation/observations (and others I have read along similar lines? ) re ways of influencing the brain biochemistry definitely lead me to suspect that there probably will be something which will enhance (or help to? ) RV capability. Lets face it, there must have been (probably still are? ) experiments along those lines; with any good results closely guarded no doubt. Kind regards, Glyn > From: "keb" > It sounds like Joe was experiencing something like the different gates > of dreaming that Castaneda wrote about in The Art of Dreaming. If you > wish, you can check out http://www.dog.net.uk/claude/induction.html for > information on controlled induction of hallucinations. It gives > techniques for voluntarily entering into a state of conscious > dreaming......Ken

#737

From: keb Date: Mon Oct 7, ?00? 1:46 pm Subject: Re: Re: RV within lucid dreams Joes experience mesundo Hi Bill, I read his essay a few years ago and have not read what he has on there now. I recall him saying that the dream states that he was in seem to be more "real" than ordinary reality. He said the way to tell if you were in a dream world was to look at objects and if they started morphing, you were in a dream world. Best Regards, Ken Burns > Bill Pendragon wrote: > In fact Stephan > Lebarge as one of the LD characters told Joe just > that.

#738

From: Rocheleh Joe McMoneagle discusses that he Lucid dreams (LD? ) at > will and that he did some of his best RVing while in > the LD state at SRI (~ 1985? ) in a totally blind > protocol. He mentions that the more realisitc the > dreamscape becomes the better the RV score. I discovered that I could "go lucid" sometime before the age of 14, finding out it had a name only two years ago. Before someone asks for my method, I don't really have one... I just wish for a lucid dream strongly before going asleep, and a couple times during the day before, and then I usually have one. I've had success with remote viewing in lucid dreams before I knew it was called RV, too - I won't detail exactly what I used to RV in LD's, because it's quite personal. (It's nothing unethical, I promise :? ) ? ) But I quit doing that sort of thing a rather long time ago, because I found it tiring - running around in your dream world can be as exhausting as if you did it outside, minus the muscle stiffness; or at least so it seemed for me. (More on false awakenings later.? ) But just before moving, and shortly after joining pjrv, I decided to give it a try - more "scientifically" now that I knew *what* I was doing Okay, I got myself a target coord from my Stage 1 very-very beginner's target pool. (I'm completely blind to these targets, so I can only suppose they're suitable for S1 - but hey, nothing comes free.? ) I went lucid, and did what I usually do to move between scenes in my dreamscape: I went to the nearest closed door and proclaimed it assigned to where I wanted to go, then stepped right in. (I wonder how others go about, simply thinking about my desired place won't fool my mind - I'll stay where I was. I haven't read extensively on LDs yet.? ) I got transported into a dimly-lit, grayish, very-very ordinary-looking, not too tidy room. I looked around - hey, this can't be the target, can it? I shrugged, thinking I'd try it again. I did so the following night, and I got transported to a similar room, which was different in a few of its variables (general shape, the way furniture is placed etc.? ), but same in the aforementioned "feel". Only that this time the transition wasn't too comfortable - it almost hurt, something a dreamscape transition has never done to me befo-- No, wait. I've just found an example of that. There was a time half a year ago, when I kept on dreaming about WWII and the Holocaust, for months, and in a contemporary setting. (This was probably due to the local political climate, and it was resolved in a cathartic final dream. I won't detail here, because the whole story has absolutely no links to RV.? ) In one such dream, I started out at the Yad VaShem Institute, in Israel. (I didn't recognize it in my dream, only after waking up... it was odd.? ) I was non-lucid at this time -- I went around and found lots of people including my family sort of "frozen in time". This was when I realized I was dreaming and took control. I looked around, did a couple things (off-topic, again? ) and then I thought I could try an LD exercise I read about the previous week. It was saying "Let me be where I should be, let me see what I should see" and then going there by some means. I used my method as described above- but just before I could step in the door, I realized that there were children's years-old corpses around the doorway. I screamed and woke up immediately. So, you can see that the only time I had a non-smooth transition was this rather extreme example. I should've seen from the general setting that I should *not* try the exercise... Well, so much for me. Back to the RV one: when I checked the target the next day (I didn't find it today, it must be on one of the RWs strewn around my room. I'll search more extensively tomorrow..? ) I saw that it was a completely, absolutely ordinary S1 target: some random landscape with a few trees. Then why this response? A fear of psi issue? (I have lots of those, but this didn't feel like that - more like a small bug in my code.? ) But then, why the redirection to these particular, cheapish rooms? (Or, rather, a general template of them which varies at any given time.? ) I have to work on this. What do you think? > waking RV where clear images are usually AOL. He does > mention that doing alot of RV work within the LD > caused some side effects with disturbing false > awakenings. I've had these, too - I used to think they were related to lucid dreaming in general, but then I found out that a friend had this phenomenon without LDs (he called it 'recursive dreaming'? ). LDs, or RVing in them might facilitate it, though, but I haven't personally discovered. I haven't done that much psi stuff in LDs yet what would be enough for finding a correlation. >keb wrote: > more "real" than ordinary reality. He said the way to tell if you were > in a dream world was to look at objects and if they started morphing, > you were in a dream world. I haven't found a method to test for whether I'm dreaming or not that didn't result in waking up. Not even morphing works all the time... The one with waking up as a result is staring very strongly at a single point. At least, that always worked this far - or am I dreaming? ;? ) Rachel

#749

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Oct 8, ?00? 10:55 am Subject: Re: Re: Lucid dream site docsavagebill Hi Ken, I really don't know how valid his ideas are, but he believed the conciousness built up images by a sort of randomly morphing images until a match was hit. So any image you hold in your mind will try to morph , which is reminiscent of the "castle building" occuring in RV. He gives exercises to practice holding an image so it won't morph and says that if you do that your dream lucidity will increase markedly. His exercise was to stare at a candle or a photo then close your eyes and prevent any change of the after image as long as possible. And also to visualize an object like a rose and hold it stable against morphing. I am going to give them a try..can't hurt..:-? ) Best Regards, Bill

#754

From: "Sharon Webb" Date: Tue Oct 8, ?00? 1?:19 pm Subject: Re: Re: Lucid dream site sharwebb_3051? Bill, Jose Silva (The Silva Method? ) used to say that his method was unnecessary for children under twelve. He said the way to encourage psi ability in children was very simple. Put various items on a coffee table and have the child look at them carefully, and then close his/her eyes and visualize them as clearly as possible. He said to make it a game and not to do this more than once a day. Sharon sharwebb...t www.fractalus.com/sharon

#771

From: keb Date: Wed Oct 9, ?00? ?:0? pm Subject: Re: Re: Lucid dream site mesundo > Bill Pendragon wrote: > His exercise > was to stare at a candle or a photo then close your > eyes and prevent any change of the after image as long > as possible. And also to visualize an object like a > rose and hold it stable against morphing. I am going > to give them a try..can't hurt..:-? ) Hi Bill, A physic once suggested that I stare at a candle in a darkened room with Kitaro (I don't recall which tape? ) playing in the background. I did this and was amazed at the after image. It was more vivid than the real thing, maybe, because with the eyes closed, there is not any object to divert attention to. It would vanish and then come back several times. I could also see this with my eyes open. I think any type of music would work, but wonder if a hemi-sync tape would be better. Soon after this, I found this book by Dr.Jonn Mumford called Magical Tattwa Cards. Along with the book, came a set of "flashing" cards. You would put a high intensity light on the card, stare at it for a minute or so and then look away from the card to see a after image flashing colors that were different than on the cards. As you advanced with this system you would hold up two fingers, a few inches apart, and try to make an after image appear between your two fingers. Ken

#704

Date: Thu Oct 3, ?00? 5:46 pm Subject: Re: Fix for nodding off in ERV rfjuice?000 Hi Scott, Thanks, I'm always looking for ways to stay longer on the balance beam :? )? ). I already do something similar to the 1st visualization, but I'll give that second one a try, it sounds good. Here's my ? cents. For me, the biggest effect on my viewing and ability to stay on signal, is my body's natural clock. When I find myself really drowsy, where just a 15 minute nap suffice, that is the best time for me. At that time a make a focused intent to stay awake in my mind (usually focused on breathing? ), and my body just seems to sleep all by itself. Of course, working people don't have the luxury to take a nap at will, unfortunately. But my schedule permits it. Anyway, I have found a good balance of sleep deprivation and naps that really works for me. The kids helped me develop it :? )? )? )? ) Linda

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