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pjrv : Messages : 656-675 of 4038 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/656?? ) ?
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#656

Date: Sat Sep 14, ?00? 1:1? am Subject: Re: Checking In. a_healey56 Happy birthday PJ. I went to mceagle.com earlier today and saw Joe's cats. He talks about those cats and how psychic they are a lot, he must really like them. He sure has a bunch of them. I like the big one. I meant to give you a question for Joe about the psychic cats, but forgot. I know it's too late now. Have a good b-day! Dave ---------------------- Moderator's note: He might be willing to take an extra question about his cats, given that none of the others address that, and he loves talking about them. :-? ) PJ

#657

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Sat Sep 14, ?00? 4:?? am Subject: Re: Checking In. maliolana Aloha PJ, We are interested@ Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna > Oh yeah. I got a package from a scientist friend > recently with a whole bunch of papers specific to > aspects of RV. If I can wade through them, maybe > I will write a sort of paraphrased summary (read: > "in english"? ) on them, if anyone's interested.

#658

From: "Glyn" Date: Sat Sep 14, ?00? 8:?5 am Subject: Re: Checking In. gebega Hi PJ, I get like that too.....ebb and flow. I become enthused with something and live and breathe it for a while.. then settle back down a bit, and if my interest stays the course, then I know it is with me for life, and RV is one of those things that has stayed the course. I am aware that I am not practicing as much as I should though, because that ebbs and flows too.... but I can feel the urge coming on again :-? )? ) Winter months are better for me in that respect as there are less other things going on and fewer demands on my time. Happy birthday for tomorrow!! You are quite a few years younger than me....cough! ;-? )....wish I was your age again. I didn't think a lot of my childhood or early adulthood either. The best years of my life were between 30 and 40. It doesn't mean I am unhappy now as that is not true at all, just a different life .......but I had a rootin' tootin', fast-paced, partying, rip-roaring time in those 10 years when youth and energy were still prime, when I was a single woman with loads of single friends LOL! I've slowed down a bit now, but I am definitely still kicking :-? ). I am looking forward to reading Joe McMoneagle's new book. My birthday is next month (Halloween? ), and I've put it on my growing list of wanna-have presents :-? ). Yes, I would like to read your scientist friend's papers sometime. Kind Regards, Glyn

#659

From: "Mary Ashley" Date: Sat Sep 14, ?00? 9:57 am Subject: Re: Checking In. maryladyoflight Hi PJ, Happy birthday gal.. :? )? ) I trust your new start manifests. I too go through my uncommunicative stages. List activity mirrors that. Whereas I used to enjoy active participation on RV, Psi etc, these days I'm content to just sit and be. For me, it's all been said anyway.. still, I might buy Joe's book. :? ) It sound great. Mary Ashley.

#660

Date: Sat Sep 14, ?00? ?:05 pm Subject: Re: Checking In. a_healey56 Hi PJ, I hope you're having a good birthday. Maybe you could just ask Joe something along the lines of: Are cats inclined to be more psychic than other animals, or does he talk about them a lot just because he happens to like cats? What can we be learning about psi from observing cats, and how do we communicate more effectively with them? Or something like that... Dave

#666

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Sep 16, ?00? 1?:38 am Subject: Re: Checking In. docsavagebill Hi David, Pardon me for butting in. But I thought it interesting that according to Vivian's recent experiences, Crows are perhaps even more psychic than cats..and she is a real cat lover. Maybe one could get some help from animal psychics on ARV.. they could meow or peck or something at the correct choice! Bill

#674

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Sep 16, ?00? 3:58 pm Subject: Re: Robs stat recheck..still looks impressive to me docsavagebill Hello Jason, I used the binomial theorem in my microsoft Excel package. I was looking for the probability of getting a STRING of 13 in a row correct not for getting 13/14. Those are different cases. For 13 in a row the probability for a chance occurance is 1.?/ 10,000 close to what I thought. For 13/14 (where the miss could be anywhere in the string the chance is easier but still less than 1/1000 . For the case of 34/35. If we ask how often would a streak of 34 IN A ROW occur by chance it is ~ 1 / ?0 billion . If we look for the chance of 34/35 where the miss could be anywhere in the string, then the odds are ?0 times easier only 1/ 1 billion! Still no matter how you cut the cake..I see it as nothing but ESP in the RAW RAW RAW RAW! Best Regards, Bill __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com

#661

Date: Sat Sep 14, ?00? 1?:40 pm Subject: Re: Checking In. nitahickok Hi PJ I hope you have a Happy Birthday! Don't feel bad about turning 37. I turned 50 at the start of this month. Everyone told me I look younger than that but I just wonder if they're being nice. This year is a year of change for me according to numerology and I am pretty sure they are right about that one. Nita Self-Reflection is the school of Wisdom

#675

From: "Viv*" Date: Mon Sep 16, ?00? 5:50 pm Subject: Re: Checking In. eclecticviv Hi PJ: Now that David's brought it up. I'd like to hear about Joe's cats, too. Viv* ------------------ Moderator's note: He agreed to take a couple more Q's about the cats. Not that he's actually finished the Q's he's already got yet, but we're getting there. I got approval to go forth with our next interview guest last night, and am working on getting an 'informal intro' to the guest written up for the list so you guys can decide what might be fun to ask about. Should be ready in a couple days I hope. -- PJ pjrv : Messages : 655-689 of 4038
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#655

Date: Fri Sep 13, ?00? 10:37 pm Subject: Checking In. dennanm Hi you guys. Maybe I should apologize for being noncommunicative lately, but since pretty much everybody else is too (at least here? ), I guess it's no big deal. Other than a post on lucid dreams over on FV I've been totally out of the loop lately. In my last post here I talked about a change in perspective about RV and my relationship to it. I still am feeling the results of that. I feel like I need to integrate for awhile. It is suddenly just so... so NOT outside me anymore... I can't even seem to think about it intellectually. I'm not doing much of it either, but it doesn't feel like denial. It feels more like... when you go from really being crazy about something and thinking about it all the time, to totally accepting it and then it's just a part of you, something that is more integrated with your ongoing relationship to life, instead of something separate one obsesses on (or I normally do, anyway? ). It'll pass I'm sure. Of course this might just mean that I am braindead and may have nothing to do with RV. :-? ) As you may know, Joe McMoneagle's latest book is finally out, you can read some info on it here: http://www.mceagle.com/remote-viewing/stargate/ Some of the Q&A linked from the above address actually came from RV Oasis - it's not that I'm not showing it, it's that he still hasn't given me the interview Q&A back with final approval, but today said it was okay to add the Q's pertaining specifically to the book or his writing into the Q&A on his own site for the book, and I was making that page today. So it is all working out oddly, partly because he was in japan for some time, and then on a business trip, and he just hasn't been available even for his own press for the new book let alone to finish the interview for me. I haven't pushed it to be honest... I'm sure it will be complete fairly soon. Sorry it ended up being more delay than I planned. I read Joe's new book above (The STARGATE Chronicles: Memoirs of a Psychic Spy? ) again the other day, I hadn't seen the 'final' version till now. A bit more edited of course but in a good way; I really enjoyed it and stayed up till midnight to finish it. It's highly personal, and narrative instead of businesslike, which is a change for Joe and one I think most readers will appreciate. Tomorrow is my birthday... I'll be 37. Ye gods! My odd state of mind lately might be related to that, I'm often withdrawn on birthdays. Just a little leftover from a suckey childhood where trauma predictably occurred on a certain memorable date (or in most cases, on every date, but is remembered more on certain dates just due to those having had more importance to me when I was young? ). I think it's the Rosicrucians that divide the year into cycles, and the birthday starts a new cycle. Maybe so. I'm always up for a new start. Well, I have run out of things to say. I just don't feel like talking lately, let alone about RV. I hope nobody takes it personally. If I thought having a constant stream on the list was important I would be posting regularly no matter what, but I am willing to let it ebb and flow as it will. Oh yeah. I got a package from a scientist friend recently with a whole bunch of papers specific to aspects of RV. If I can wade through them, maybe I will write a sort of paraphrased summary (read: "in english"? ) on them, if anyone's interested. Best regards, PJ

#665

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Sun Sep 15, ?00? 11:31 pm Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class docsavagebill Hello PJ, I thought I'd report on Rob's remote healing class. Of interest to ARVers is that Rob demonstrated his ability to pick the color of shuffled playing cards by dowsing techniques. He proceeded to reel off 13 in a row before a miss( ~ 10,000 :1 by chance? )..then he did another 13 in a row another 10,000 to 1 ! ( to get the combined chance multiply the two 1/10,000 X 1/10,000 = ~ 1 in "more than you want to ever count". then he put the rest of the deck down and predicted the next 8 in a row before turning them.. Now this sounds like "card tricks" but this is no way a trick this is actualy real ESP on the block for your demonstration ladies and Gentlemen! The dowsing technique for this involved first training oneself to respond to red or black cards by falling one way or the other. One turns over a card ..if its red fall left.. ( just get the feeling of falling not actually fall? ).. and if it is black fall right. Keep doing that for a few 100 cards and then ask yourself what the next card is without looking! and see which way you want to fall. Rob says he has gotten ?4/35 one time..odds of that about 1/ 100 billion!! Now I pressed Rob on this could he predict the order BEFORE the cards were shuffled. He maintained that his abilaity would probably be degraded.. but admitted he never tried it. People I bet he could get almost the same result! I want to go to a roulette wheel and test this. The next lessons were on using remote influence to alter the disease "aura" signature.caused by illness or injurty...or to use it to remove curses ( which are also just twisted auric conditions created by negative thought forms? ). Basically to do this remotely, Rob sets up an artifical "energy " replia of the patient in front of him usually scaled to a smaller convienient size and feels the aura of the astral double he created. And after finding diseased aura areas..blasts them with energy to restore normality..while maintaining a link between the etheric double and the real patient. I can't conclude without mentioning Robs OUTSTANDING success with curing cancer this way. He uses a combination of nutritional supplements and energy therapy. Many of his "nutritional supplements" methods are the result of extensive research aided by dowsing out which method would likely work, and the suplements are many times herbal equivalents of the very lastest medical breakthrus aimed at stimulating the immune system to find and attack cancer cells , and the energy to directly attack the cancer cells and remove the cancers ability to mask or hide from the killer t cells.( the immune cell that does thekilling? ) . No one uses the unique combination of methods he is using. And he keeps hard statistics on all his patients. He has accepted 56 cancer patients over the last 5 years or more. These were almost all TERMINAL patients given up on by the medical community and not expected to live even a year. In fact many were given a few weeks to live or less. And yet only 6 have died under Robs treatment yeilding an 86% remission rate. And since adding the suplements to his energy therapy the last year and 1/? he has lost ZERO PATIENTS. Now no cancer clinic on earth that keeps real stats can match even the lower figure... Best Wishes, Bill

#667

From: "Jason S. Shapiro" Date: Mon Sep 16, ?00? 6:36 am Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class fetik3 Bill: Thank you for sharing this dowsing technique; but a couple of notes: On 15 Sep ?00? at ?1:31, Bill Pendragon wrote: > He proceeded to reel off 13 in a > row before a miss( ~ 10,000 :1 by chance? ).. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by each of these trials, and the number of hits (please correct me if I'm wrong? )... otherwise I think your odds are a bit off. In this first experiment, there were ? possibilities (red, black? ) with 14 trials, and 13 correct matches. That produces odds of about 1 : 171, not 1 : 10,000. > then he did > another 13 in a row another 10,000 to 1 ! ( to get > the combined chance multiply the two 1/10,000 X > 1/10,000 = ~ 1 in "more than you want to ever count". Giving him the benefit of the doubt that his second experiment stopped at 13 trials (rather than 14? ), you get: ? possibilities (red, black? ), ?7 trials, ?6 correct matches - odd of chance are about 1 : 7740. > and see which way you want to fall. Rob says he has > gotten ?4/35 one time..odds of that about 1/ 100 > billion!! ? possibilities (red, black? ); 35 trials, ?5 hits? That would be closer to 1 : 6 - not 1:100,000,000,000 -Jason ----------------------- Moderator's note: Well that sucked out some glory, lol. Rob's a good guy. Btw, McMoneagle talks briefly about red/black cards in his new book. -- PJ

#668

Date: Mon Sep 16, ?00? 10:00 am Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class dennanm Hi Doc, How about you tell the list something about Rob and his psi work? It may be mostly unknown to them. (The list got this question this morning and I'd suggested it be sent personally instead, which probably wasn't appropriate, as it is after all on topic and a logical followon to your post!? ) Rob was on my old VWR list way back when, but has always been a pretty low profile kind of guy. Regards, PJ

#670

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Sep 16, ?00? 1:41 pm Subject: Re: Re: Rob's Remote healing class docsavagebill Hi Palyne, And thanks to Jason for correcting my stats..except for the last one..which was 34/35. NOT ?5/34. that still needs computation. Re Rob's psi background. It's almost to broad to scoop into single post, unless PJ was to write it...:-? ) He's a natural psychic who was seeing auras and getting premonitions, and readings almost as far back as he can remember. He found out that others did not see the same things at an early age and that talking about them would get him in trouble..so kept it to himself for quite awhile, and really did not understand why or what he was perceiving. However, a friendly entity finally explained the two worlds he found himself in. He has always maintained that anyone can do as well if they learn whats involved as most RV teachers would say. Personally, I think he is a little optimistic about that. But he has taught alot of people ( over a 1000? ) his methodologies for readings ( similiar to but simpler than RV? ), dowsing ( he's past president of the Oregon Dowsing Assoc.? ), precognition, healing, and even mediumship. He teaches these are all quite related and all involve three areas of learning: learnng to feel and see and interpret the "energy bodies " of people and things ..meaning the auric essence of people and things, and learnng to manipulate and program energy to do healings. And also, since the energy body can be accessed anywhere in space or ti . Rob's greatest interest right now is in healing and specifically cancer as I mentioned. But he tends to teach all parts of the psi spectrum togeather. Interestingly, Rob feels as does Paul that reading the future, (precognition? ) even at it's best, is less accurate than present/past time remote viewing. I guess leaving a space for Free Will. Nevertheless I keep try ing to entice him into the casino where I can quantitate the precog part of his ability more accurately by the stack of chips left after 50 bets or so. ...G So far he hasn't given in to my need to "scientifically " measure this. Note that his card predicting was done on a deck already shuffled..so is not predicting the future ..just reading what is there. I suspect however, he can do better than chance at precognition also. He has predicted ( to me personally? ) an earthquake that occured in Seattle two days before it came, and the general bear trend of the stock market for the last two years. BTW he predicts a return to a bull market from mid ?003 until ?007 ( when another crash occurs? ). Best Regards, Bill

#687

From: Karl Boyken If it were a 50:50 chance on each card, the odds of 13 in a row would > be 1 out of ?^^13 = 819?. If he then missed 1 and then got the next 5 > for 1 miss out of 19, then the odds would be 19 out of ?^^19 = > 1:?7,594. To do 13 in a row, twice in a row would be 1:(819?*819? )= > 1:67,108,864. > > These are statistically significant and your assumption is incorrect. > My source is my probabilities and statistics class ?0+ years ago. > You can find the information in any such textbook that covers > combinations and permutations. Or you can try flipping cards yourself > for the next 40 years to try to get two in a row of length 13 :? ) > > Scott -- Karl Boyken kboyken...t http://soli.inav.net/~kboyken/ We dance 'round in a ring and suppose, while the Secret sits in the middle and knows. --Robert Frost

#669

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Sep 16, ?00? 1:01 pm Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class docsavagebill Hi Jason, I will check my stats with the binomial theory. I was remembering that 10 in a row is 1/1000 so 13 in a row is higher. but if you count the first miss it will be lower again.. I may have overestimated. HOWEVER, his best trial was 34/35 NOT ?5/34. That may not be 1 in a hundred billion.. but it will be quite high. Much higher than 1/10,000. I'll compute it. The amazing thing was running off these runs one after another. Best Regards, Bill

#67?

From: rv...m Date: Mon Sep 16, ?00? ?:03 pm Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class fetik3 On Mon, 16 Sep ?00?, Bill Pendragon wrote: > HOWEVER, his best trial was 34/35 NOT ?5/34. That may > not be 1 in a hundred billion.. but it will be quite > high. Much higher than 1/10,000. I'll compute it. It certainly is higher than 1:10,000 - it's about 1:194,885. Not quite 1:100,000,000,000, but pretty impressive nonetheless (I'd be smiling with those odds!? ) :? ) -Jason

#671

From: Karl Boyken HOWEVER, his best trial was 34/35 NOT ?5/34. That may > not be 1 in a hundred billion.. but it will be quite > high. Much higher than 1/10,000. I'll compute it. > The amazing thing was running off these runs one after > another.

#673

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Mon Sep 16, ?00? 5:43 pm Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class docsavagebill Hi Karl, Well actually that's n ot a problem there were only three runs A run of 13 before a miss, then a run of 13 before a misss, then a run of 8 without a miss and he stopped. Also the run of 34 although picked out, my goodness with odds over a billion to 1, even if he did a 1000 such trials would still be way up there. However, if you were the Great Randi you would say he stacked the deck or I'm just lying. Neither of which is true, but we were not even testing that kind of thing. So did not do the kind of iron clad controls to control for actual fraud. So you will have to take our words for it..:-? ) Best Regards, Bill Best Regards, Bill

#677

From: Karl Boyken #679
From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Sep 17, ?00? 3:16 pm Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class docsavagebill Hi Karl, Rob did not do this as an experiment , just a demonstration..He was showing us how to do it and then we all did it. INterestingly many of us ended up with negative psi correlcations ( DISPLACEMENT?? ). Rob did three demonstrations. He did not even count the cards. I counted. I was only focused on the STRINGS.. AS I know how to determine probability that the string will occurr. And if I defined a string to start with the first card after shuffling..then I had a clear and hard way to compare. He did three demonstrations. I counted how many until a miss for each. The first had a string of 13 before a miss. He actually did 5 or 6 more in that string after the miss..but I did not count those. I was only focused on the string leangth for this. He then shuffled the cards and did another string of at least 13 .. it may have been 14 before a miss ..again he did about 5 more before shuffling again which I ignored. I was only counting the string length after shuffling.. finally he put the newly shuffled deck down and called out the order of the top 8 cards before turning any cards over. They were ALL RIGHT. A fantastic demonstration. I've never seen anything like it..but when you hang with Rob that stuff happens all the time, or even more far out stuff. I won't even share. .For example.. the three ghosts that came bye and stopped in.and we all got to feel one of their energy bodies..sigh..never mind. ...G Best Regards, Bill

#681

From: "Viv*" Date: Tue Sep 17, ?00? 10:58 am Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class eclecticviv Hi Karl: It wasn't like a science lab experiment. It's like if you were visiting a psychic friend. The friend had a well shuffled deck of cards, that different people had already played around with. For fun, the psychic friend was asked by another firend, to call, red or black, before turning over the top card, to see how far the friend would go before an error occurred Three events, of calling the cards, in sequence, occurred, at that time. The 35 card event, was in reference to an occurance in the past, that didn't happen at the same time as the above mentioned 3 event occurance. Viv* A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money. ~Everett Dirksen~

#678

From: Karl Boyken #680
From: Bill Pendragon Date: Tue Sep 17, ?00? 3:?0 pm Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class docsavagebill Hi Karl, Comparing string length is a perfectly valid way of demonstrating statistical annomalies. BTW the picking of 34/35 was not done as part of this. I just asked what his best ever was. But basically it again was at the same probability as the three demos he did for us. Best Regards, Bill

#68?

From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m Date: Wed Sep 18, ?00? 1:?6 pm Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class maliolana Aloha Vivi, I think Karl was referring to the exagerated statistics... Rob is so good that exagerated stats do him a disservice... I doubt he inflates them himself Plus with Bill being a genuine scientist ...his expressions of stats are held to a higher level of scrutiny/expectation of validity/ soundness...than the rest of us peons... Love & Light & Laughter Mali'o...aka...Dawna

#686

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Thu Sep 19, ?00? ?:17 pm Subject: Re: Simple Probabilities docsavagebill Dawna, There were no exaggerated statistics. I estimated them first from my approximate knowledge of streak stats. And when I checked them with the binomial distribution program I was very close. It was Jason who was off with his numbers I think becaue he did not understand of the situation. that these were long streaks. For streaks the calculations are easy. You don't even need the binomial distribution. When guessing red or black cards it's the same stats as flipping a coin. You have a 50% chance of being right. Now the next card also has a 50 % chance of being right. So the chance of two in a row is .5 x.5 = .5 ^(squared? ). The chance of three in a row is .5 ^(cubed? ), the chance of 4 in a row is 0.5 ^( 4 th power? ), etc. Until you get to the chance of 13 in a row = 0.5 ^(13? ) = 1.? in 10,000 trials a streak of 13 correct guesses would occur by chance. Since Rob had two such streaks the chances of two streaks of 13 in a row is (1.?/10,000? ) X (1.?/ 10,000? ) = 1.4 in 100 million trials. Now he also did a sequence of 8 in a row after that ( with no other trials? ) the chance of 8 in a row is 3.9 in 1000 trials... so the chance of all three trials in a row commming out the way they did with a streak of 13, 13, and 8 is (1.?/10000? ) x (1.?/10,000? ) x (3.9/1000? ) = 5.6 /100 billion or about 1 in ?0 billion trials. Heres a web page for simple coin flip streak probabilities: http://arnoldkling.com/stats/coins.html The chance ( in his best separate trial ? ) of 34/35 is about 1/ billion. In that last case I did not ask him if it was a streak of 34 ..so I estimated for the conservative condition that it was not a streak and the miss occurred anywher, using the binomial distribution, which is easier for more complicated cases. If it was a streak..it would be ~ 1/ 100 billion. No > And if you want the binomial distribution..just search it on yahoo..or look up in microsoft office Excel help although not all office packages have the stat tool plug in with the binomial distribution program. If anyone wants help in running the binomial distribution program please let me know. There is almost no way one can exaggerate Robs perfomrance.His hits are over well over 90% correct in all the demos he has done. Better than anyone I know by far. BTW I told a couple of collegues familiar with statistics here and they were happy with the statistics , but refused to believe he did it since they don't believe in psi at all and consider such a result impossible. Best Regards, Bill ------------------------ Moderator's note: While I understand the need for explaining, you guys are SERIOUSLY OFF FOCUS here for an "experiential-based" list. Hint. PJ

#683

From: Karl Boyken #685
From: "scottrver" Date: Thu Sep 19, ?00? 11:57 pm Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class scottrver Hi Karl, > Do you have a reference about the statistical > significance of runs that I could look at? It > seems to me that runs can't be all that > significant, in and of themselves. If it were a 50:50 chance on each card, the odds of 13 in a row would be 1 out of ?^^13 = 819?. If he then missed 1 and then got the next 5 for 1 miss out of 19, then the odds would be 19 out of ?^^19 = 1:?7,594. To do 13 in a row, twice in a row would be 1:(819?*819? )= 1:67,108,864. These are statistically significant and your assumption is incorrect. My source is my probabilities and statistics class ?0+ years ago. You can find the information in any such textbook that covers combinations and permutations. Or you can try flipping cards yourself for the next 40 years to try to get two in a row of length 13 :? ) Scott

#684

From: "Mary Ashley" Date: Thu Sep 19, ?00? 9:57 am Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class maryladyoflight Hi, I have watched Rob do the cards. It is jaw dropping. It's one thing to read about it, quite another to see it with one's own eyes. Whilst we are getting involved in stats.. we are missing the magic. :? ) MaryA

#689

From: Bill Pendragon Date: Fri Sep ?0, ?00? 10:57 am Subject: Re: Rob's Remote healing class docsavagebill Agreed Mary, Next time I'll bring a video camera...:-? ) Best Regards, Bill >--- Mary Ashley wrote: > I have watched Rob do the cards. It is jaw dropping. > It's one thing to read > about it, quite another to see it with one's own > eyes. Whilst we are > getting involved in stats.. we are missing the > magic. :? )

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