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pjrv : Messages : ?439-?567 of 4038 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/?439?? ) ?006/07/01 00:04:1?
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#?439 From: Karl Boyken Date: Fri Mar 7, ?003 6:54 pm Subject: Re: Another RV talk threebears4u Hi Karl, I wish someone would have RV meetings around here. It would be great and I'll bet there would be many in attendance. Best Regards, Barbara #?448 From: greenmn900... Date: Fri Mar 7, ?003 ?:14 pm Subject: Re: Another RV talk greenmn900... Hi Karl, I didn't know you were giving public lectures on RV. Cool. I'm glad you are. Like you said, nothing shows people better how an RVer doesn't even have to know what the target is until they've actually done it themselves. The fact that many people do so extremely well on their first target helps others learn too just how good RV can be. Good luck on your future speaking engagements, hopefully, they'll always have a projector for you. lol! Best Regards, Don #?465 From: Karl Boyken Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 11:14 am Subject: Re: Another RV talk rvrichrb Hi Karl, I'm sure glad there are some people around with enough talent and guts to give talks AND demonstrations on RV to the general public. I take my hat off to you and anybody else who does. Hey, after you've done it for a while maybe you can take over where Pru left off. You might even become rich and famous and get your picture, story, sales pitch, etc. on the front page of newspapers, like she did. You'd have backlogs of roomfulls of >>>paid<<< audiences :-? ) Great job Karl!!! Rich ---------------------- Moderator's note: Paid? What does that mean? I don't get it. PJ #?466 From: Timelord?0?9... Date: Fri Mar 7, ?003 9:37 pm Subject: Re: Another RV talk psitrooper?4 > Don wrote: > Hi Karl, > I didn't know you were giving public lectures on RV. Cool. I'm glad you > are. Hi Don, Karl LOL i did a similar sort of thing for the company i work for Fujitsu during a Presenation Skills workshop last month. Basically i was required by my lecturer to give a sample 10 minute Presentation of the subject on my choice in front of the other course participants. -I For my sins i chosed RV :? ) I used a power point slide show and projector and talked about my imaginary RV Company and what it could do for YOUR buisness today. It went down a treat eventhough i thought they would see me a total fruitcake these guys immediately started fireing questions from all angles after my presentation. Two thing that they were quick to pick up on was the iss of ETHICS and CHARGES. When i told them a minimum fee was 7,000.00 the almost fell over their chairs but no one doubted if what i was saying was false They seemed to think it was perfectly normal and wanted to know more. I then distributed sample sessions (my own? ) to give them an idea of what i was talking about and the got even more excited LOL I learned alot form that in terms of speaking up in front of people and making one point across in the proper way. I think psi is getting more grass roots aknowlegement than we are possible aware of. Peace, tunde #?478 From: "Viv" Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 11:3? am Subject: Re: Another RV talk eclecticviv Tunde, I love reading personal experiences, like this one, you posted. I also, enjoyed reading Karl's experience along with other's, who have posted about giving talks and lectures to small groups. Sharing one's personal knowledge with small groups, while contrasting the real RV, against the overdone, "Hollywood" versions is what will make the difference in the long run. Increased knowledge of RV and other psi skills, to the general public, via small groups without a lot of "hats and horns", is what will help bring the increased credibility to the RV community and it's participants. Challenging Randi or other naysayers, or making big duals and dramas, about Rv being real vs flim flam, isn't going to get what we want for RV. What will consistently win people over is their curiosity, and, presenting RV and psi skills as a business, a job, a functional, human capability. What follows, is as you succinctly stated, "...psi getting more grassroots acknowledgment than we're aware of". IMO, the "word" is out there. Viv* #?470 From: Karl Boyken Hi Karl, > I wish someone would have RV meetings around here. > It would be great and I'll bet there would be many > in attendance. > Best Regards, > Barbara -- Karl Boyken mailto:kboyken...t http://soli.inav.net/~kboyken #?475 From: Barbara Baumgardner Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 10:09 am Subject: Re: Another RV talk threebears4u Hi Karl, Hahahahaha----No, I'll bet that you know more about RV than me. I am operating on what I was born with and I haven't been trained in this field yet--I just work the targets. So, on that note I would not want to misinform anyone else. Lord knows, I may enough mistakes myself, without me teaching anyone else how to make them. :-? ) I will leave that job to somene who has had some professional training. I am ordering training tapes and thinking about some face to face training at some point in the future, but I wish I didn't have to go so far. Near DC there is the Monroe Institute and there is Dale Graff up near Annapolis. Everybody else is far far away. With TMI, you have to go through their Gateway Program before you can take the RV. think each one is about a week long. Thanks for your confidence-- :-? ) Warm Regards, Barbara > Karl Boyken Well, why don't you do it? I'm no RV expert, and I > make that clear when I speak, but I know enough to > give a short, free talk and do a couple targets and > provide a bibliography and some Web addresses so > people can investigate for themselves. You probably > know as much about RV as I do, if not more--you (or > anyone else on this list? ) could do this. #?484 From: "debra woodrow" Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 10:38 am Subject: RE: Another RV talk msfxsts Barbara, I have given about 5 or 6 two to four hour introductory lectures in my town on RV and they were well attended. The participants practiced retrieving target information using Stage 1 and ? data, and I explained the concepts of AOL and gave a general overview of what to expect and how the data sometimes "arrives" for folks. I always point them in the direction of the "big guys" for actual real RV training sessions. I also explain that it takes an enormous amount of time, practice and work to learn how to properly train to become a viewer. What I've consistently found is that most people, even if skeptical, pick up enough information that they go away wondering about the subject and wanting to learn more about it. I don't think many of them will go on to be "remote viewers" and take the time to train thoroughly in the subject, but they are now conversant in some of the "lingo" and will have a certain openness to the topic overall. I think that in the long run it helps all of the RV community if we are accurate with our information and present the subject in an objective manner. I've found that most people seem to be really interested in the idea, if not the actual practice of RV. I encourage you to take the initiative and introduce people to the subject. Warm regards, Debra R. Woodrow, CHT Huntsville, AL "The space between our thoughts is big enough to drive an entire universe through." (me? ) #?509 From: Barbara Baumgardner Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 7:15 pm Subject: RE: Another RV talk threebears4u Hi Debra, Wow, you are wayyy above me. Hahahaha At the risk of sounding like a dummy, I cannot explain stage one and two or how you get the aols. I just work the targets and do my thing. Sometimes I see a movie, sometimes I just go there and I walk around or I am in the water or up in the air , and sometimes I go to lala land and I miss the target completely. Sooooooo I am learning. :-? ) Right now it is whatever works. I am going to get some tapes and work those and see what happens. Actually, I am looking forward to them. :-? ) Later on, I will look forward to some face to face training. What I could do is share what I do know about RV, and them give out a few targets--just for fun, and take it from there. I have to hesitate, since I never took CRV, explaining anything I am not sure about. I did start a web course once, but I had some trouble with the protocols, since I was supposed to stay with the gestalt and sometimes I was already at the target. I felt like one side of my brain was fighting the other. I decided to withdraw and wait until later, after I had worked targets for awhile, to go back and get some training. Warm Regards, Barbara #?5?1 From: "debra woodrow" Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 11:07 pm Subject: RE: Another RV talk msfxsts Barbara, It sounds like you are having fun and learning as you go, and there's nothing wrong with that or in helping others to find out about the subject, especially since you're careful to be honest about what you do and don't know. You sound like you're doing great, and part of the "experience" is getting the conscious and subconscious to "get along" with each other so you can gather as much data as possible. Just keep practicing and get training whenever you can! There's truluy no substitute for the face to face information exchange and target practice. If I could, I'd take classes every year. Go for it! :-? ) Warm regards, Debra R. Woodrow, CHT #?537 From: Barbara Baumgardner Date: Sun Mar 9, ?003 8:08 am Subject: RE: Another RV talk threebears4u Hi Debra, Thank you for your nice post--it made my day. :-? ) And yes..I really do have fun with RV. You are right, I leary about what I would say about RV to a group, having never taken a course, I would probably just give an overview, and approach it from where i see it. I believe everybody has some natural talent for RV, and I guess whatever I would share would be (hopefully? ) encouraging that to surface. Anyway, I do look forward to the 'real' training with someone, and I hope to find the best person to teach me RV that will help me 'merge' with what I am working with. am not saying I am set in any one way of doing things, for I do experiment around with it, but I have found that sometimes protocols too strict will not work for some people. (And I hope I don't get blasted for that one? ) tee hee Warm regards, Barbara #?48? From: "Linda & John Garvey" Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 11:34 am Subject: Re: Another RV talk linda_g7us >From: Timelord?0?9... > >I think psi is getting more grass roots aknowlegement than >we are possible aware of. > >Peace, >tunde I have been getting a sense of this, too, even here in our small community. Lately (past few years? ) people seem to be more open to hearing and talking about psi. Linda G "The distinction between past, present and future is only an illusion, even if a stubborn one." -- Albert Einstein -- _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get ? months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail #?489 From: Timelord?0?9... Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 9:14 am Subject: Re: Another RV talk psitrooper?4 > I have been getting a sense of this, too, even here in our small community. > Lately (past few years? ) people seem to be more open to hearing and talking > about psi. > Linda G Yeah, Although there are definetly boundaries you may have to be wary off and choose wisely where you enagage in such areas of RV talk or demo's as there are those that will make life hard depending on who you discuss the topic of Psi. Ive known people look at me differently when i so much as hint at anything paranormal but have also been equally surprised at the level of accpetance i get from some others. If you follow what the good book say's you should be ok... " Caste ye not thy pearls before swines" peace, Tunde #?493 From: "pjgaenir" Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 3:?3 pm Subject: Sharing RV Stuff (was: Re: Another RV talk? ) pjgaenir Hiya Tunde, > If you follow what the good book say's you should be ok... > " Caste ye not thy pearls before swines" Hmmn. Ya know, I see the logic in your statement -- I wouldn't tangle with a pig, since as the saying goes, I'd just get muddy and he'd enjoy it -- but that's not the same as making an offering. Since not too far into my interest in RV, several people have been asking me why I was wasting my time doing massive documenting work for 'other people'. Especially when the primary result was an inordinate number of people responding to me, even pursuing me in email ("I felt you remote viewing me!" or "Read my mind!" et al.? ). I pointed out that not all people were like that. I've met several intelligent, thoughtful, interesting people. Granted, they are in the minority of the 'general public', but that doesn't mean they don't exist. A few of them from quite a few years ago are on this list now, all this time later. One time, after I had bored a friend with 101 gripes about 'the internet RV field', he asked me, "Then why do you bother? These people have their gurus and their little worlds of reality and RV. If you can't discuss even basic magick-level stuff, if even entities are far-out to them, if they think they know everything because they paid someone, if they think your questioning any guru or their party line is unacceptable, then why waste your time on them?" It's an easy answer: because there are people who are ready and know it. There are people who are ready and don't know it, but will when it hits them. There are people who are not ready, but in being exposed to the subject, will be moved along that road. --- I DON'T know the level of development of every other person. I like to think I do sometimes, because I'm an autocratic butthead (to use my six year old's favorite word? ). I can assume someone's dense because they totally fail to understand (or even believe? ) in something I consider both obvious and even basic. But I really don't know, and it's the height of arrogance to assume I do, to judge generalities of people as "swine who don't deserve my pearls of wisdom" as you mention. I can hold a personal judgement, everyone does, but when it starts interfering with my behavior toward them it's gone too far. --- For every individual who sends me an email telling me they've been privately viewing for years and are not involved in any way in the RV groups or online stuff, and are dearly grateful for the Firedocs RV Collection, I know there are probably more out there. And for every nutcase there are a lot of ordinary, and some extraordinary, people. I have been in groups in person, or online, where I have talked about something that I was sure nobody would accept, or would argue. In fact, the same people I was talking to, had greatly argued things that I considered baby steps, and I was talking about something considerably more advanced -- surely they'd never get it. And to my astonishment, some did. For whatever reason, they had issues with the little stuff but not the big stuff; maybe it touched on different issues with them. Often they had really interesting ideas of their own -- and a person I had previously felt nothing in common with, suddenly, we had found common ground. To my greater astonishment, someone would come out of the woodwork, usually later in response to my conversation, and it would turn out they were fabulous -- a very worthy potential friend. I never would have met those people if I'd gone on feeding everybody pablum in the belief that nobody was smart enough or psychic enough or whatever, to "get it". --- I've had a lot of private talks with a lot of people in RV. And you would be surprised how many people have a LOT of interesting stuff to share, and politically incorrect opinions, and experiences and even ways of doing psi stuff, that you will never hear them say in public (or you may never see them in public period? ). You will, from listening to them if you meet them at all, come to believe that they wouldn't even believe in any of that stuff! But in reality, it's that they consider the general public incapable of understanding. The people most motivated to respond to them are either argumentative or paranoid or obsessive or suckup drooling. The more serious and rational people, with whom they might have more in common, do not hunt them down via email, fax, bicycle (!? ) etc. So they come to believe that it's a waste of their time to bring up anything in public except what is "digestable" for the majority; or what has extensive double/triple-blind scientific controlled testing and documentation; or what will not result in 500 fear filled email messages the next day; or whatever. In so doing, they are basically deciding what they think everybody else wants to hear. And they talk about that instead of what they've talked about to me from an armchair or telephone (or in a couple cases, handwritten letter? ). --- I get upset about this sometimes. I say, if you put it out there, those who deserve to know it will come. They will find it, they will find you, and it will help them. Don't you wish you'd had someone like that for you, when you began and as you developed? Social evolution is a ladder, and we stand on the shoulders of those who came before, to paraphrase Descartes. Every damn time a remote viewer has to reinvent a wheel of process, is a waste of potential progress. Everything shared could contribute to the evolution of the RV field as a whole. Yes. The majority won't get it, or believe it, or implement it, or will shortly insist THEY came up with it, LOL. But some WILL get it, and some WILL benefit from it. And some who might not have believed it at first hearing or reading it, a year later after it's had time to sink in, might. But it can't sink in if it never gets shared to begin with. Everybody learns. And everybody grows. And related to that, the greater understanding of every group and the field as a whole grows. But if everybody's got their own tiny little fractal they hoard to themselves, because other people, or other groups, either don't deserve it or wouldn't understand it or would argue it, then none of this ever happens. Nothing gets shared. God forbid the experience of the unity of consciousness should ever start making us feel one with the other people in the field, even remotely. And we can all sit comfortably in our separate little boxes reinventing all our own wheels, and doom the FUTURE persons in our field to the same fate. It's a choice everyone makes for themselves. --- To apply this to the current Calabrese essay and a lot of people talking to me about 'philosophy' vs. 'must be real or she wouldn't be ceasing normal ops', this might be related, but I could be wrong. For whatever reason she chooses to keep the details private, and that's certainly her right. Chances are, few if any outside her group will understand. And that is fair -- she would not have believed whatever-it-is without a lot of evidence and testing and info of her own; so if all that isn't made available to others the way it was her, they won't come to the same conclusion any more than she would have without that input. I suppose that might make some feel that others are dissing or disputing or interrogating Pru or TDS if they talk about the essay and ask any question whatsoever, or suggest other alternatives for explanation, etc. But I don't see that as meaning a person is closeminded, or in any way hostile to TDS or to the concepts in the essay. From "out of the blue," Pru herself I am sure would have asked many questions and expected to have a lot more measured evidence for consideration. When people don't have the same info, they're unlikely to share the same belief systems or conclusions. That's obvious. Anybody who is reluctant to share information in enough detail to make sense to a thoughtful person, will end up feeling that other people don't understand them or aren't open to them. And they'd be right, but the fault would not be with the endless "swine" of everybody else, but with the person themselves. The pearls of wisdom we absorb help make us the people we are. If you want better people around you, put out better stuff. It takes courage to be politically incorrect, to state an opinion nobody else shares, to argue with the gurus you've just sold everybody else on (in my former case, lol? ). But so what. If you want to find people who are more open, more intelligent, more insightful, more psychic, and more worth getting close to, more "worth" your pearls of wisdom.... you have to be as honest with them as you'd hope they'd be with you. That draws the kind of people worth having around. PJ #?490 From: Timelord?0?9... Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 9:?? am Subject: Re: Another RV talk psitrooper?4 In a message dated 08/03/?003 18:58:54 GMT Standard Time, viv...com writes: > Tunde, I love reading personal experiences, like this one, > you posted. I also, enjoyed reading Karl's experience > along with other's, who have posted about giving talks > and lectures to small groups. > Hi Viv, It was worth the nerves and effort just to see their jaws drop when i told them how much My imaginary Company charges heheh What i would love to do is one day (in the far future? ) take what ive learned and hopefully disperse the knowlege where it has never been heard of such as Nigeria although there are real dangers that would bring from such a diverse and fundamentalists place with an old and deeply entrenched belief system of various occult/psi knowlege... Peace, tunde [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #?49? From: "Linda & John Garvey" Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 3:19 pm Subject: Re: Another RV talk linda_g7us >From: Timelord?0?9... >Date: Sat, 8 Mar ?003 15:14:48 EST > > > I have been getting a sense of this, too, even here in our small >community. > > Lately (past few years? ) people seem to be more open to hearing and >talking > > about psi. > > Linda G > >Yeah, Although there are definetly boundaries you may have to be wary off >and choose wisely where you enagage in such areas of RV talk or demo's >as there are those that will make life hard depending on who you discuss >the topic of Psi. I agree. What seems to work for me is: I will get an instinct that perhaps a local person with whom I'm talking might be interested in psi. I'll start "small" such as asking something like, "Have you ever had a dream that you remember, and then you are astounded when the dream actually happens a short time later...?" This had led to many an interesting discussion about just about every form of psi. However, if anyone seems disinterested in psi or metaphysics, I don't bother discussing it with them at all. But that also applies to people who aren't interested in animals, computers, the Internet, films and TV, or anything else I enjoy discussing. Linda G "The distinction between past, present and future is only an illusion, even if a stubborn one." -- Albert Einstein -- _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get ? months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail #?499 From: Karl Boyken Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 6:44 pm Subject: Re: Another RV talk threebears4u Hi Karl, Now I see--it's kind of like a sharing of the subject of RV. Now, that I could do--give a brief history and tell a little of how it works and give them a target or two. Now that might be fun. Now I have never tasked a target, but I was reading somewhere that if the tasker really puts a lot of energy into attaching the target number to the target, supposedly it makes it easier for the participants to make target contact. Is this the way it works? I THINK I did meet Joe M briefly about 10 years ago in Charlottsville at some PSI event at a hotel in town. It was a big thing and it took the whole hotel for several days. It was great and so was the price. The whole place was packed full. I was there with a group of my friends and we had a blast. The only program that is as good as that one is yearly in Columbus OH-- I think it is about the 3rd week in Sept every year, but I will have to check the dates. It is only about $6 to 7 dollars a day and it is pack full of PSI fun. I will find out and post to the group. It is a shame to miss...so many programs each hour and soooooo cheap. It has about 10 programs an hour from which to choose. About the only thing they don't have is RV--they even had a Gateway presenter, but no RV. Maybe someone in the group will be interested... Warm regards, Barbara #?500 From: Karl Boyken You might even become rich and > famous and get your picture, story, sales pitch, etc. > on the front page of newspapers, Well, hmmm, get rich quick off of RV? Hey, _no_ one has thought of that before! It just might work. Karl -- Karl Boyken mailto:kboyken...t http://soli.inav.net/~kboyken #?54? From: richard braswell Date: Sun Mar 9, ?003 1:19 pm Subject: Re: Another RV talk rvrichrb Hi Karl, Again, I applaud you and everyone else on this list who are showing people how much more connected to this universe we are than most people's societally-programmed belief systems will allow. A hundred years from now (or however long it takes to re-program society? ) there will be a day of enlightenment, when people will suddenly think "aha", and the RVers who've been trying to enlighten them will be seen as extraordinary pioneers. For now though, as pioneers, we're the ones with the arrows sticking out of our backs, courtesy James Randi et al.. Someday maybe I'll take a real live RV course myself (instead of on-line? ), and who knows, it could be from one of you. LOL. And I'll happily pay you for it :-? ) By the way, in the last post I probably should have said "paying" audience instead of "paid" audience, in case that was a point of confusion. Rich ---------------------- Moderator's note: It was. I nearly commented on it. I thought you were suggesting something underhanded (e.g., not a 'real' audience? )! -- PJ #?503 From: Karl Boyken Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 8:11 pm Subject: RE: Another RV talk msfxsts Karl, I don't know whether I'm a better speaker or not, (I'm a hypnotherapist, I'm skilled at putting people to sleep with my voice ? ) I just give them some terms to hang their hats on, a bit of general overview on the history and how to do the "real" structure. I keep the definitions straight out of the original CRV training I received, and then we work ?-3 targets for just a few minutes to give them a "flavor" for what it's all about. People seem to be really interested and enthusiastic and most of them work diligently on the targets. By the end of the evening usually everyone has gotten "something" from at least one of the targets that they can take home as a "good hit", and that's all I'm really striving for in the introduction. It's enough to get them interested. Those that want to learn more will, I'm sure, follow up later on. Deb Woodrow #?514 From: greenmn900... Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 3:?6 pm Subject: Re: Another RV talk greenmn900... Hi Tunde, You and Karl both are braver than I am about public speaking, especially something so out of the mainstream as RV, lol! But like you said, Tunde; it may have more acceptance than we tend to think. Best Regards, Don [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #?515 From: greenmn900... Date: Sat Mar 8, ?003 3:?3 pm Subject: Re: Another RV talk greenmn900... Karl, So this was your third speaking engagement and you had to suddenly do it without an overhead projector? That's hard on the nerves, lol! Good luck with them. I only wish you lived near me so I could attend one. Warm Regards, Don [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #?556 From: Karl Boyken Now I have never tasked a target, but I was reading somewhere that if the tasker really puts a lot of energy into attaching the target number to the target, supposedly it makes it easier for the participants to make target contact. Is this the way it works? -- Karl Boyken mailto:kboyken...t http://soli.inav.net/~kboyken #?567 From: Barbara Baumgardner Date: Sun Mar 9, ?003 6:16 pm Subject: Re: Another RV talk threebears4u Hi Karl, Thanks for the target info. I will have to find out about the dates for the "Light Expo" in Columbus, OH. It is held at the Vetrans Memorial Bldg. next to the waterway. If you go once, you will be back. Plus there is everything for sale there crystals (sometimes I use these in RV? ) , books, healers, psychics, ect. The Tibetian monks go about every year and build a colored sand Labrinyth. Be sure and take some extra money for the special workshops--they are about $10 for each one--this is aside from the regular programs that are free. It is in the Fall--Sept. I will try and target something just for practice--to see how it works. I'll let you know how it turns out. Warm Regards, Barbara

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